Eaa wrong image

[Bill Greenwood]

When you renew your membership as I do each year EAA sends you a sticker, ( I prefer a new card but anyway) and a brochure. The brochure has 8 sides with photos of different members, one is a friend Tom Frasca standing by his plane, and we just were at a forum with Tom on the North 40. But one of the photos sets a bad example, it shows "W. D. Lewis" leaning on the prop of his Cessna TR182, if the engine were to fire he'd lose a hand. This is a bad precedent from a safety point and from people who probably know better if theyd stopped to think. We often see photos like this, but its not the right way. I own a Beechcraft and almost every issue is someone is standing in a lethal prop arc.. And its not unheard of, I know of 2 people killed that way and 1 person in the very safe Young Eagles program.
Maybe Im too sensitive to this, but I think if we belong to a hunting group and they sent out photos of people looking down a gun barrel it would get attention. If EAA has a photo of a Young Eagles program they dont show the kids with a cigarette pack in their hand.
There's enough inherent danger in flying, let's not overlook something easy to do right like prop safety.

[Bill Greenwood]

No one from EAA has commented on my topic, so I guess either they haven't seen it or they think mailing a photo of a dangerous habit just doesnt matter and will pass on.And I didnt get anyone replying that I m making too much out of a small thing. A prop accident doesnt happen often ,but when it does it is serious or usually fatal and avoided by staying out of the prop arc at all times, just like you handle a gun safely by keeping it pointed down when not shooting, loaded or not.

[robert l]

I agree Bill, this happens not only in aviation but everywhere you look. Advertisers are concentrating on a specific thing, an airplane, a car, truck or motorcycle and not thinking about the details. I've seen videos where a cop didn't have his seat belt on, a safety catalog showing workers without safety glasses on. In the real world, that will get your butt run off very quick. When doing a pre flight on the Champ I rent, I know the switch is in the off position because I have the key in my pocket. But I have stood next to the prop for a photo op!
Bob

[Sam Oleson]

Bill, do you perhaps have a photo to illustrate what you're referring to? We certainly do not want to set a bad example and we'll forward your concerns on to our Membership department.

[Bill Greenwood]

Sam, I assume you have a copy of the benefits brochure that EAA mails out with renewal. Page 4 is a photo and Avis ad of a young man at a 182 and he is holding the prop in his hand. My point is not just that if it kicks or fires at all he loses his arm,but overall awareness of how dangerous a prop can be. What if he needs to check the oil or clean the window or pull the fuel drain? Does he walk through the prop arc or around it ? Remember the Sat Night Live skit with John Beluisi as a crazed Samarai with a sword? Someone told me a good image to a avoid the prop arc is to think of it as a sword about to swing wildly without warning! And its not this one photo which may have come from an ad person not even a pilot, I see otheres in magazines, the weekly newpaper at Osh ect. People think it looks good to pose leaning on a prop, most of the time no injury,but what are you showing kids and non pilots? Our Beech magazine has such a photo most every issue.
I am not sure how to put that photo on line, maybe Im the only one who even notices this or thinks it important. If EAA doesnt have their brochure, maybe I can fax it to you if you give me the fax no.

[lnuss]

I fully agree with you, Bill, that avoiding that prop arc is very important behavior to establish for yourself, and I agree that we shouldn't have promotional images out there that set a bad example. I'd put it in the same category (or maybe even higher) as showing someone in a moving car with no seatbelt. I always emphasized that point to my students and to the CAP Cadets when they were around aircraft.

[CHICAGORANDY]

In internet exploring alterative flight training for Sport Pilot here in Illinois today I came across a few pics showing instructors standing beside their aircraft holding the prop by the tip.

[Frank Giger]

Bill, we need to meet someday, shake hands, and go for a cup of coffee. That way you'd know that I harbor no ill will for disagreeing with you on the forums from time to time.

Should one touch a prop? Nah, one shouldn't.

Will an engine fire up if someone puts an arm on one? Probably not. The odds are really, really, really low. It's a mighty fine engine that fires up on a little movement of a prop, and I haven't seen one yet. Hand propping takes some oomph.

Heck, I've seen people move their planes around by grabbing both sides of the prop hub - makes me cringe every time, but in reality it's not really harmful to the aircraft.

Indeed, I've never read of someone starting an engine and getting prop struck by touching a prop. Prop strikes happen when people walk into an already running engine, as they can seem invisible.

Hand on prop pictures go way back, and while you're correct that it can teach bad habits in relationship to being near or in the prop arc, it's very low risk.

[Bill Greenwood]

Frank, love to meet, I just dont drink coffee, drink Dr. Pepper when not in Pepsi land at Osh or rum and Coke or milk when I have chocolate or donuts or Dom Perignon when someone with good taste and a generous wallet is buying.
Yes. i know a prop is not as likely to fire just by leaning on or touching it. But would you point a gun at your head routinely and form that habit just if you thought if was unloaded? Would you put your finger in electric socket just if you thought the current was off? And props can fire if moved, takes so little to start a Cub for instance. But my main point is to form the habit and teach it to kids , passengers, linemen etc of NOT GOING INSIDE THE PROP ARC, to see it as a danger zone. JUst like wearing a seat belt in a car or a helmet on a motorcycle, no matter how slow you are going or how short the trip. Do you drain your fuel sumps preflight? Do you expect it to have water or jet fuel in there? Not often but only takes one bad habit. Years ago, as a low time pilot, I bought a Mooney. The high time salesman brought it in one evenig and first thing next morning we went out to fly, Boy was I excited, pretty neat a M 201. As I did the preflight the salesman told me I didnt need to drain the sumps, they never got water in them. For a minute I thought, "What do I know with 200 hours total and this guys an expert", But then I decided to do it the right way just as I had been taught. You should have seen his face when I drained out several cups of water.

[Rod Schneider]

I'm also gonna have to agree with Bill on this one. While it's true that it's unlikely that any harm would come from casually leaning on a prop, it's not a good idea. Every prop needs to be treated like it may fire or be energized by the starter without warning, and habits developed accordingly. It's like it says on one of my T-shirts--"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except aircraft props. They will straight up kill you".

[Sam Oleson]

Bill, I'll forward your concerns on to our Membership department. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[Bill Greenwood]

Rod,that is a great slogan, I never heard that one before, where did you get that T shirt, Ive never seen it? Maybe every young pilot should be given one when they solo.
I just bought a new T shirt at the pilot shop at Denver Cent. as for the 4 forces of flight. The one acting to the rear is "FAA".

[Cory Puuri]

No one from EAA has commented on my topic, so I guess either they haven't seen it or they think mailing a photo of a dangerous habit just doesnt matter and will pass on.And I didnt get anyone replying that I m making too much out of a small thing. A prop accident doesnt happen often ,but when it does it is serious or usually fatal and avoided by staying out of the prop arc at all times, just like you handle a gun safely by keeping it pointed down when not shooting, loaded or not.

Bill:

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. While it is an extremely low probability that a 182 engine will spontaneously fire from someone touching the prop blade, I do agree that the picture can suggest to the uninitiated that casual movement of persons around or touching a prop is ok. My hope is that the uninitiated will have safety conscientious members like you (Frank and Rod) to introduce them to aircraft safety, but knowing that isn't always the case, we've reached out to WD Lewis to request an updated photo for the next print run of that brochure.

Sorry for the delay in responding. As hard as we try, with hundreds of posts occurring out here on the EAA Forums every day, 24 hour response time without a system for flagging posts requiring our attention can be challenging.

By the way, while perfection is something we strive for, even when several people involved in the creation and review of a brochure like this are pilots, we do overlook the details in photos like this from time to time. We appreciate having members like you who bring such issues like this to our attention.

I would be happy to buy you a Pepsi next time you're in Oshkosh!

Thanks again,

Cory

[Rod Schneider]

Rod,that is a great slogan, I never heard that one before, where did you get that T shirt, Ive never seen it? Maybe every young pilot should be given one when they solo.
I just bought a new T shirt at the pilot shop at Denver Cent. as for the 4 forces of flight. The one acting to the rear is "FAA".

http://www.yourcooltees.com/shop/view_product/WHAT-DOESN-T-KILL-YOU-MAKES-YOU-STRONGER-EXCEPT-AIRCRAFT-PROPS-THEY-WILL-STRAIGHT-UP-KILL-YOU-T-SHIRT?n=5265877&pn=1 It popped up on my FaceBook feed sometime last year, so I bought it. I like your 4 forces tee shirt, very appropriate :D

[C 172 Pilot]

While I agree you should never hang around a prop (broken P lead) they can fire if moved. It always made me wonder how I was supposed to back the 172 into the hanger without touching that prop using the tow bar? Just gotta ask?

[lnuss]

If you're in the front of the aircraft pushing it backwards, it's pretty easy to place one hand (flattened) on the blade of the prop near the hub, ensuring you're not in the arc and that you'd not get caught by the blade if the engine started. Of course you always check that the throttle is fully retarded, don't you?