China Bails Out Another GA Longtime Start-up

[Floatsflyer]

Greely, a Chinese corporate behemoth has bought Terrafugia the flying car guys. Greely owns Volvo and Lotus among many familiar brand names. They want to get into the the flying car and driverless car business which they believe could be viable and a reality in the next 25 years.

Terrafugia, which has been around for 11 years with nothing to show for it in terms of no aircraft production and no aircraft ever delivered is damn lucky to be bought out instead of filing Chapter11. Now they can pay back the $10 million in VC money they pissed away on a novelty Jetsons vehicle they actually believed had a viable market....for $278,000 a piece. I certainly took notice that they have not exhibited at Osh for the past 3 years.

[Cary]

All of the flying car idioms have been less than successful, even when they've built an actual flying version. The Terrafugia is probably as "successful" as any--at least, it's not necessary to trailer part of it, a la Moulten Taylor's Aerocar, when on the ground. But it's still a bastard design, being neither a very good car nor a very good airplane. And that's the story of all of them, that they all have fallen way short of being good at either. Even for those who have the excess money to buy that sort of toy, paying more than a quarter mil for something that drives like a grocery cart and flies like a semi-aerodynamic brick is hard to justify.

Cary

[Frank Giger]

Cary has struck at the heart of the problem with "flying cars."

[Kyle Boatright]

Greely, a Chinese corporate behemoth has bought Terrafugia the flying car guys. Greely owns Volvo and Lotus among many familiar brand names. They want to get into the the flying car and driverless car business which they believe could be viable and a reality in the next 25 years.

Terrafugia, which has been around for 11 years with nothing to show for it in terms of no aircraft production and no aircraft ever delivered is damn lucky to be bought out instead of filing Chapter11. Now they can pay back the $10 million in VC money they pissed away on a novelty Jetsons vehicle they actually believed had a viable market....for $278,000 a piece. I certainly took notice that they have not exhibited at Osh for the past 3 years.

Lucky Greely is bailing these guys out. Maybe the US investors will get a little money back. IMO, Greely is paying for a dream, not a product or even worthwhile IP. Terrafuga's whole business model reminded me of Moller with better funding.

[Floatsflyer]

Terrafuga's whole business model reminded me of Moller with better funding.

And a POC that at least flew but they seemed to be pleased with just this achievement alone and did not move forward(but kept taking deposits). As if they were saying, "see, we did it, now stop being pessimistic about us, we're moving on to the next Buck Rogers flying car on our computer screen."

The Terrifugia owners are all MIT grads. They all should immediately go home and tell their parents how sorry they are for wasting the $350,000 they spent on each of their educations.

[Frank Giger]

Why would they ever apologize? They've made a fine living off of what they're doing!

[DaleB]

The Terrifugia owners are all MIT grads. They all should immediately go home and tell their parents how sorry they are for wasting the $350,000 they spent on each of their educations.
They're doing what MIT people do... spend research grants. :)

I kid, I'm sure there are thousands of MIT grads gainfully and productively employed. There is, however, certainly no shortage of them engaged in the expenditure of investor and tax dollars for what would more honestly be billed as pure research. Nothing wrong with that, until you start trying to convince people to give you money for pure research by pretending there's a business there.

[Kurt Flunkn]

Ever work with an MIT grad? You would know within the first 30 seconds because that is the first thing they will say. True story......

[lrnurf]

You say it's the first thing they say, but how would you know of others who didn't tell you about it?

I've been on a jury burdened with a prosecutor who compulsively mentioned his degree from MIT every few minutes. The MIT grads I know don't do that. Perhaps the grads you know are exhibiting some perverse form of PTSD as a result of their accomplishment, and can't keep from picking at it. I tell a couple I know who have a master's and a PhD from MIT between them that they are slow learners. Four years ought to be enough time to learn it hurts.

Probably one of those guys at TerraFugia should have gone on to Sloan School and studied business for a while. BTW, I've known some MIT grads who founded or co-founded successful companies.

[Frank Giger]

You say it's the first thing they say, but how would you know of others who didn't tell you about it?

STOP MAKING SENSE.

It's the Internet, for goodness sake!

[jedi]

All of the flying car idioms have been less than successful, even when they've built an actual flying version. The Terrafugia is probably as "successful" as any--at least, it's not necessary to trailer part of it, a la Moulten Taylor's Aerocar, when on the ground. But it's still a bastard design, being neither a very good car nor a very good airplane. And that's the story of all of them, that they all have fallen way short of being good at either. Even for those who have the excess money to buy that sort of toy, paying more than a quarter mil for something that drives like a grocery cart and flies like a semi-aerodynamic brick is hard to justify.

Cary

IMHO the problem is the desire to make a flying "car". The car is highly developed and adapted to today's environment. A flying car can never complete on performance with the car or with the airplane. What is needed is a roadable aircraft and/or a flying roadable. It needs to improve in areas that today's cars do not operate and today's aircraft generally ignore, and it needs to do that for less than a million dollars per copy.

Combine a single seat aircraft practical for a trip of thirty miles or less and a bicycle capable of a 30 mile trip in less than an hour and you will have a nitche market unless it costs $100,000 per copy.

[DaleB]

I think there are other reasons that efforts to produce and sell "flying cars" are destined to fail, at least until some time in the not-immediate future. For one thing, if you're looking to sell flying cars, your target customer is not a pilot -- it's a commuter. The only real reason to have a flying car is for long commutes... lengthy trips that you make every day, or close to it. In most areas, for something to be practical in that role it would need to be able to make the trip in all weather. No matter if it's day or night; winds, rain, snow, whatever. Otherwise you have something as practical as a scooter or motorcycle. While there are people who commute via motorcycle, it's a pretty small number -- and motorcycles don't cost upward of $100K or require a pilot's license to operate. If you have that kind of money to spend on something that can only be used in fair weather, then you're going to drive to work and fly on the weekends. And of course you can't land anything (until we have working small VTOL ships) in a parking lot, so even if you have a workable flying car you'll still need an airport on both ends of your trip.

Now add in the fact that it takes copious amounts of time, effort, money, motivation and yes, brain power to get the training and certification needed to operate an airborne conveyance without killing yourself and breaking things, and even then it's a thing that carries a higher risk than most people are going to be comfortable with.

In my humble opinion... it can work, WHEN the vehicles are operable in most or all conditions, and are automated to the point where you get in, sit down and snooze while the machine takes you to wherever you're going. That day is coming, maybe even before we all are tree food, but it's certainly not here yet. Cars are getting a lot closer every year; I can drive through town in my wife's Volvo and rarely if ever touch the gas or brake pedals. Some others will do most of the actual driving for you. Give it another ten years and the idea of driving your own car will seem a little quaint to most people. But until the "flying car" gets there, ventures like Terrafugia are interesting engineering exercises that may advance the art somewhat, but are highly unlikely to achieve any degree of commercial success.

[dougbush]

IMHO the problem is the desire to make a flying "car". The car is highly developed and adapted to today's environment. A flying car can never complete on performance with the car or with the airplane. What is needed is a roadable aircraft and/or a flying roadable. It needs to improve in areas that today's cars do not operate and today's aircraft generally ignore, and it needs to do that for less than a million dollars per copy.

Combine a single seat aircraft practical for a trip of thirty miles or less and a bicycle capable of a 30 mile trip in less than an hour and you will have a nitche market unless it costs $100,000 per copy.
I think you are spot on, Jedi.

[Bill Berson]

There was an EAA designer that built a powered parachute/three wheel bicycle combo that flew and could also be motored down the road (or pedaled). Several decades ago, I think. In Sport Aviation archives, I don't know where.

[choppergirl]

I kind of would like to buy some defunct famous Aircraft manufacturer name from like the olden days... like for a token $1 or something. Something that was out on the forefront in its day and made a name for itself, but hopelessly gone forever now. You can find stock certificates for sale on ebay of some of them...