First Time GAC Camper at Airventure - Arrival and Parking Questions

[cjmartinflyers]

Hello All. My son and I are planning to fly in to AirVenture on Thursday afternoon (July 27th after the Thursday airshow) for several days of camping in the GAC area (leaving Sunday). Can anyone tell me how late in the afternoon the GAC area will be staffed by EAA volunteers so we can be directed to a parking/camping space. Also, does anyone have any recommendations as to what would be the best time in the afternoon to arrive over Ripon for the Fisk approach? I would like to arrive at a time when the airspace is the least crowded. Thank you.

[keen9]

It's kind of funny that none of the information from EAA directly answers your question! If you make it in before the airport closes at 8pm, you'll be taken care of for parking and camping. Not sure there really is a less busy time. As you get to 8pm it'll get less busy, but that is because you are risking not making it in. The only real "less busy" time is the morning.

[CarlOrton]

Make sure you read the notam. Also note that the field closes to all traffic during the airshow, so if you're not on the ground before 2:30, you won't have another chance until 6-ish depending on the day's scheduled performers.

[Kyle Boatright]

Make sure you read the notam. Also note that the field closes to all traffic during the airshow, so if you're not on the ground before 2:30, you won't have another chance until 6-ish depending on the day's scheduled performers.

The other thing that seems to happen is that the airshow always (tm) runs long with aircraft recoveries and *special* aircraft departures, so the arrival window shrinks. And then, it shrinks more because they seem to prioritize departures over arrivals in the evening...

[Fred Stadler]

Make sure you read the notam. Also note that the field closes to all traffic during the airshow, so if you're not on the ground before 2:30, you won't have another chance until 6-ish depending on the day's scheduled performers.
Note that per NOTAM page 1, the Monday to Friday airshows are scheduled to end at 6:30 PM and "arrivals at Wittman Regional Airport are normally resumed 30 minutes after each afternoon airshow." That makes the expected time window for post-airshow aircraft arrivals 7:00 to 8:00 PM.

[Jeff Point]

And then, it shrinks more because they seem to prioritize departures over arrivals in the evening...
They do this on purpose and out of necessity. Every day there are a pile of airplanes waiting to leave as soon as the airport opens after the airshow, and we need to flush them all out before we start taking arrivals or it would be mass chaos. Besides, we need to make room for the new arrivals. So this might be inconvenient to arrivals but in the larger picture it makes a lot of sense.

[FlyingRon]

Yeah, you want to let the departures out. It generally takes about 30 mintues from the time the airport is turned back over for operations after the airshow. 6:30 is the planned time but it all depends on how the airshow goes. We have to wait for the airshow people to turn it back to the FAA and then the FAA tells us (through a chain of command) that we can allow engine starts on the ground. It would be gridlock to allow arrivals at that time. There's plenty of time to get the planes on the ground before the airport closes at 8PM. If they let you land here will be someone to park you. You won't be able to register until the next morning if you get there late (the registration booth closes up earlier) but that is of little consequence.

[Cary]

As one with probably more experience than most at being the last airplane to land for any given day, I can tell you that they are very strict about closing the airport at 8 pm. I have just touched down several times in the last 10 years, to be greeted with "Welcome to Oshkosh, attention all aircraft, Wittman Airport, Oshkosh, Wisconsin, is closed." At least once that I can recall, another aircraft (a DC-3) and I were racing to get in before 8, and I succeeded but he didn't. Right after I heard the above, he called in, "Douglas xxx, I'm less than 5 minutes out." "Sorry sir, the airport is closed to all traffic, in or out."

On the other hand, they've been really, really good about getting me in. One year, my GPS said that if I flew the FISKE arrival, I'd just barely make it, and I was already planning a diversion to Fond du lac. But Madison Approach called me, said that Milwaukee was concerned that I might not make it, gave me a vector to the approach end of 36, and handed me off to Milwaukee. I asked Milwaukee to make sure that Oshkosh Tower would allow a direct to the runway VFR approach rather than via RIPON and FISKE. Meanwhile, I firewalled my hotrod P172D, and as my airspeed built to some small warp speed number, my GPS said I had about a 2 minute window, maybe. Milwaukee called and said that OSH tower had approved direct to the runway. So I came in to a somewhat angled base leg for 36 as fast as those little chipmunks up front could run, pulled the power, made a relatively steepish turn to final which slowed the airplane below Vfe, pulled on all 40 flaps, and touched down exactly where Tower said to land. "Welcome to Oshkosh, attention all aircraft, Wittman Airport, Oshkosh, Wisconsin, is closed. Nice job, Cessna!"

But in spite of all that, I don't recommend pushing it--do as I say, not as I've done. Better to arrive over Green Lake early, orbit a couple of times waiting for the airport to reopen after the airshow, and come in with time to spare. There is no guaranteed time when the air traffic will be the least, but honestly, it's not difficult. Just follow the NOTAM, follow the railroad track (not your GPS) from RIPON to FISKE, and if OSH isn't accepting inbounds when you arrive at FISKE, you'll be told that by ATC if you haven't already picked it up on the ATIS, so you'll orbit Green Lake or Rush Lake as directed. If they are accepting inbounds, you'll fly in, either to a relatively close-in right downwind to 27 or a left base to 36R or 36L, under most circumstances but the most difficult winds (which doesn't happen often--I've landed on 18 once).
Just to make it crystal clear, flying in is easy! (It's the anticipation that is difficult.:D) But I do recommend that you practice 3 things, if you haven't done this for awhile:

spot landings,
cruising at 90 knots, and
go arounds.

Then pay attention to the controllers. When they tell you to start your descent, immediately slow down to your approach speed, drop your flaps like normal, and land where they tell you to land. If they tell you to go around, then do it without hesitation. Once you're on the ground, exit the runway per the controller's instructions, as soon as possible--the grass is rolled and solid, so don't wait for a hard surface taxiway unless you've been told by the controller to do that.

Cary

[FlyingRon]

Also practice flying tight patterns: keep it inside the blue water tower and be ready to turn base any time you pass the end of the runway.

[Bill Greenwood]

What airplane are you flying in? And from where?
Mostly read and know the notam, you can have EAA mail you the booklet or probably get it on line and print the relevant parts. There are 5 or 6 sections, but you only need a couple of parts for any particular type plane.

[Bill Greenwood]

Steps of Fisk arrival: 1 Have a copy of the notam, memorize the pertinent parts, I'd mark them in yellow highlight. Listen to the ATIS then put radio on arrival freq.
2 Keep you eyes out for traffic. Find the small town of Ripon. It is just n e of the Green Lake which is big enough to see on the ground and on the Chigacgo sectional. You may have gps or moving map etc. It is even easier to find if you are coming from the south, as FDL is a good size town with an easy to see ariport on the west side. Stay high there.Hwy 23 runs from FLD n w right to Ripon where it meets the hwy coming from the south 3 Have arrival freqency on the radio, and just listen. 4 Fly 90k and I think its 1000 " AGL. 5 Turn north toward Fisk, if there is a plane in front of you follow it. Good idea to lower gear and that helps you slow to 90 k. 6 At Fisk the controller on the ground will call you by type, and likely tell you to proceed to which runway, or to hold at the lake. 7 Just follow the railroad tracks ne to Osh and land on the runway assigned, no need to talk. LOOK OUT THE WINDOW FOR TRAFFIC, 8 MAKE A NORMAL LANDING, THAT IS GEAR DOWN AND CORRECT APPROACH SPEED JUST LIKE ALL THE ONES BEFORE. 9 When you have slowed safely exit onto the grass and show your printed parking sign.

Ripon, looks like a nice nondescript little town. But beleive it or not it is where the Republican party was founded in 1890?. Some good guys then, big issue was they were abolitioniist, dont think they had a position on bathrooms or privitatisizing our ATC back then. Maybe this came with eating too many cheese curds. Did they have "Go Packers bumpers stickers on their buggies then?
And one more thing Ripon is known for, stricly aviation wise?

[Auburntsts]

Ripon, looks like a nice clean little town. But beleive it or not it is where the Republican party was founded in 1890?. Actually some good guys then, big issue was they were abolitioniist, dont think they had a position on bathrooms or privitatisizing our ATC back then. Maybe this came with eating too many cheese curds. Did they have "Go Packers bumpers stickers on their buggies back then?
And one more thing Ripon is known for, stricly aviation wise?

You're off by 36 years--remember Lincoln was a Republican. Not sure why you felt the need to add unnecessary political trivia to a description on how to fly the VFR arrival to OSH, but whatever.

[Bill Greenwood]

Todd, if you read and not just hit the quote mark,.you'll see that since I wasn't sure of the founding date and couldn't find it in the research under Ripon so I put a ? after the 1890 date, like this 1890? If this trivia really upsets you dont read my next part or even better lets not read each others at all.
And I see that "you felt the need to add" Your trivia about "Lincoln was a Republican" it to the topic on flying the Fisk arrival, but I am not upset about it though I already knew that.
I dont recall ever writing a negative comment on any topic you have written, and if I did comment I'd try to do it politely, but most likely the best way to do this is you just dont read anything I write.

For those not advere for trivia, Ripon has another distinction and once again I'm not 100% sure so Ill put a ? mark after it. I think Ripon was home to the Klapmeiers, sp? not born there, but I think they went to Ripon College? again not sure. For those not familiar with this name, they are the founders of the pusher plane, Vk? that later became Cirrus.

[Cary]

What airplane are you flying in? And from where?
Mostly read and know the notam, you can have EAA mail you the booklet or probably get it on line and print the relevant parts. There are 5 or 6 sections, but you only need a couple of parts for any particular type plane.

The beauty of printing it yourself is that you can size it according to what you want. I also put it on my iPad. I wouldn't pick and choose what parts to print. Better to have it and not need it than to realize you saved paper and don't have what you need.

One other thing: be sure to create the necessary signs (GAC, VAC, IFR, VFR), and make the letters big and readable from a distance. The marshalers will appreciate being able to see where you want to go. And gosh, don't do what one of my buddies did one year--we landed, he showed the sign to the first marshaler, then tossed it in the back seat! You need to show it to several of them as you taxi where directed.

Cary

[FlyingRon]

I have my signs every year which include VAC, W69 (not that I need this one usually, everybody knows where my plane goes back), VFR, NORTH 40, and HILTON and then a few extras to include:

THANK YOU, YOU LOOK GOOD IN ORANGE, YOU LOOK GOOD IN PINK, $447,00 FOR THIS, WHY CAN'T I PARK HERE?, I PARKED HERE LAST YEAR, I KNOW JACK PELTON, etc....

[Kyle Boatright]

I have my signs every year which include VAC, W69 (not that I need this one usually, everybody knows where my plane goes back), VFR, NORTH 40, and HILTON and then a few extras to include:

THANK YOU, YOU LOOK GOOD IN ORANGE, YOU LOOK GOOD IN PINK, $447,00 FOR THIS, WHY CAN'T I PARK HERE?, I PARKED HERE LAST YEAR, I KNOW JACK PELTON, etc....

My only alternate sign is "Not by the Sh***ers!"

[Jeff Point]

And gosh, don't do what one of my buddies did one year--we landed, he showed the sign to the first marshaler, then tossed it in the back seat! You need to show it to several of them as you taxi where directed.

+1 on this. The marshallers are not a hive mind. Show your parking sign to each and every orange vest you see until you are in your parking spot. Yes we do have radios but if we have to get on the (very busy) air to sort something out, it can slow things down. Ground ops is not unlike the Fisk arrival- radio silence is golden.

[Jeff Point]

From the marshaller's side- many of us put signs on our orange paddles to communicate with pilots. "Camping with plane?" etc. One of mine, in small letters, is used when I have to walk right up to the canopy to read a pilot's tiny sign:

"I can't read yours either."

Always good for a chuckle.

[FlyingRon]

+1 on this. The marshallers are not a hive mind. Show your parking sign to each and every orange vest you see until you are in your parking spot. Yes we do have radios but if we have to get on the (very busy) air to sort something out, it can slow things down. Ground ops is not unlike the Fisk arrival- radio silence is golden.
Right, and there several different groups moving aircraft all with a different radio channel. Just because you showed Jeff a VAC sign doesn't mean I know where you want to go when you get south of Papa-2.

[Jdgold]

I would recommend a morning arrival because the window is larger and likely to be less congested.


Also, if you arrive in the 7-8 pm timeframe, you could have a 20 minute taxi after which you have to tie down and unload the airplane, take care of any admin procedures (e.g. wristbands), find the bathrooms, and chat with your new camping neighbors and check out their planes. By the time that's accomplished, you'll likely be pitching your tent in the dark. At least that's what happens to me every year.

[Kyle Boatright]

I would recommend a morning arrival because the window is larger and likely to be less congested.


Also, if you arrive in the 7-8 pm timeframe, you could have a 20 minute taxi after which you have to tie down and unload the airplane, take care of any admin procedures (e.g. wristbands), find the bathrooms, and chat with your new camping neighbors and check out their planes. By the time that's accomplished, you'll likely be pitching your tent in the dark. At least that's what happens to me every year.

You're doing it wrong. ;-)

1) Land. 2) Tie down the airplane. 3) Pitch the tent. 4) Everything else.

[FlyingRon]

Also, if you arrive in the 7-8 pm timeframe, you could have a 20 minute taxi after which you have to tie down and unload the airplane, take care of any admin procedures (e.g. wristbands), find the bathrooms, and chat with your new camping neighbors and check out their planes. By the time that's accomplished, you'll likely be pitching your tent in the dark. At least that's what happens to me every year.
You won't be taking care of wristbands at 7PM. The camper registration booths in the airplane areas close up earlier. You'll just let it go to the morning. You don't need a wristband to get into the North 40 and even if you're in HBC or Vintage you can talk your way in if you arrive late and leave the field for dinner or whatever. I suppose you could hop over to the Scholler registration which runs 6AM-Midnight, but nobody does that (whose not camped in Scholler).

I always set up the tent FIRST. Then you hop through the fence to Friar Tucks unless you can hitch a ride to other food.

[Cary]

I learned the hard way the folly of pitching in the near dark. I was tired, it was getting dark, and so I tied down the airplane and pitched the tent with the minimum stakes necessary to keep it in place--I thought. But something woke me up at 5 am, I looked at my phone and saw a monster storm was on the way, so I got up, threw on my bathrobe, and went out, hammer and stakes in hand, and started pounding. But I didn't get finished before the storm hit with full fury, so I ducked back inside and attempted to keep the tent up with my body.

Meanwhile, because I hadn't chocked the airplane, just tied it, and it twisted in the tie-downs. The combination of it twisting and the tent blowing, the trailing edge of the wing did a number on the rain fly of the tent.

Results: one non-repairable tent (I patched it with duct tape, which held for the week), which I replaced that Fall, and lessons learned--don't do any setting up only half way.

Cary

[Jeff Point]

There are three essential conditions for putting up a tent. Proper execution requires at least one, preferably two. Some of our funniest Oshkosh stories involve all three.

1. Dark.
2. Raining.
3. Drunk.

[provoshane]

How will air traffic into KOSH be in the morning on Thursday the 20th? Is it less busy than Fri-Sun? Also, I am in an Experimental, but NOT a homebuilt. Am I restricted to N40 or do I/should I consider other camping spots?

[CivEngPE]

How will air traffic into KOSH be in the morning on Thursday the 20th? Is it less busy than Fri-Sun? Also, I am in an Experimental, but NOT a homebuilt. Am I restricted to N40 or do I/should I consider other camping spots?
What kind of experimental?

[Cary]

How will air traffic into KOSH be in the morning on Thursday the 20th? Is it less busy than Fri-Sun? Also, I am in an Experimental, but NOT a homebuilt. Am I restricted to N40 or do I/should I consider other camping spots?

No idea on the experimental-where? issue, but traffic tends to be lighter early, within the first couple hours after the airport opens. But it's unpredictable, and part of that depends on the weather elsewhere--if folks get bogged down only an hour or two from OSH due to weather, they'll be among the earlier ones to come in.

Cary

[Kyle Boatright]

How will air traffic into KOSH be in the morning on Thursday the 20th? Is it less busy than Fri-Sun? Also, I am in an Experimental, but NOT a homebuilt. Am I restricted to N40 or do I/should I consider other camping spots?

Based on what I have heard over the years, you don't face significant traffic until Saturday. So on Thursday, you should be in great shape!

[provoshane]

What kind of experimental?

Pipistrel Virus SW

[Jeff Point]

How will air traffic into KOSH be in the morning on Thursday the 20th? Is it less busy than Fri-Sun? Also, I am in an Experimental, but NOT a homebuilt. Am I restricted to N40 or do I/should I consider other camping spots?
Traffic on Thursday morning will be very light, in fact the NOTAM arrival procedures aren't in effect until Friday so you just fly on in like any other towered airport. Be advised that nothing is open, trams aren't running, etc. at that time, so you'd better have other arrangements.

As for your airplane- unless you are parking it at a commercial display, it is factory built so it goes to N40.

[CivEngPE]

Pipistrel Virus SW
How do you fall into the experimental category if not homebuilt.

If the plane was built by the factory in Slovenia, it is not experimental. Does it say "experimental" somewhere on/in the plane? Who built it?

Shannon

[CarlOrton]

Shannon, any plane can be made experimental by alteration away from the original type certificate. As an example, planes that have sections of fuselage removed for camera portals, etc., are often reclassified experimental. Obviously I dunno the circumstances of the OP's Pipistrel, but I'm not surprised by it, either.

[CivEngPE]

Shannon, any plane can be made experimental by alteration away from the original type certificate. As an example, planes that have sections of fuselage removed for camera portals, etc., are often reclassified experimental. Obviously I dunno the circumstances of the OP's Pipistrel, but I'm not surprised by it, either.
True. I was curious though, because the Pipistrel offers a HB kit version and didn't know if the OP had purchased it from the original builder and thought it disqualified him from parking in HBC.

[provoshane]

How do you fall into the experimental category if not homebuilt.

If the plane was built by the factory in Slovenia, it is not experimental. Does it say "experimental" somewhere on/in the plane? Who built it?

Shannon

I purchased it as a complete aircraft from the factory. It is registered as an Experimental Glider - Exhibition
I operate it as a motorglider, albeit one that cruises at 142 ktas on 4.2 gph....LOL.

Shane

[Auburntsts]

It's not real clear in the NOTAM but when you get assigned a "dot" as in "Yellow High wing Green Dot" you don't have to land exactly on the dot (and there's no expectation for you to do so). The idea is to set down near it, just don't land before the dot or float long (hense the advice to practice spot/short field ).

[FlyingRon]

In most cases, they want you at or beyond the dot. The whole point of the dot is they're putting someone down on the threshold behind you.

As for whether the XX can get into Custom, you'd have to ask them. I don't know their rules. We definitely won't take it in Vintage :)
I'd be prepared to go to the GAC.

[Cary]

Sometimes I detect a little nuance that there's something wrong with being in the North 40. I haven't camped in Home Built, but that's the only place I haven't camped with my airplane. I've been on both sides of 9-27 (sometimes referred to as the North 40 and the Far North 40), Vintage (the benefit of flying an airplane with a 1962 certificate date), the South 40, and so far south in the South 40 that we jokingly called it North Fond du Lac. I've had a great time, no matter where I camped. I've met some great people in each of the places I've camped (I've met a couple of jerks, too).

What do I prefer? Actually, I do like the North 40 relatively near the showers. The new shower house is a gem, very nice. The old one is adequate. The portable shower houses spotted here and there are adequate. The North 40 Cafe has pretty good food on its limited menu. The North 40 store is a good place to get ice.

I've heard people say that they like camping in this place or that because "it's close to the action". That also means it's close to hoards of people, not all of whom are aviation oriented. I feel comfortable that my belongings won't disappear when it's just a bunch of aviation folk; I'm not so sure when it's those who are only there to watch the air shows. And being far from "the action" isn't a handicap, as long as the trams and buses are running.

But the bottom line is that wherever you camp, you can be assured that you'll have an enjoyable time.

Cary