Doc, FiFi, Doolittle, Blue Angeles

[Skyguy]

Now if EAA could get ALL to fly the same day...sure would be nice for us photographers. :)

[mazdaP5]

Oshkosh doesn't need the bogus Blue Angel burn line. I'd rather sit close to the taxiway than not see the blue angels due to v-tail Bonanza obstruction. 23 year member, 35th Oshkosh.

[Paul Chandler]

Agreed - if you want to see the Blue Angels there are plenty of other shows they will appear at. Sitting close to the taxi way is one of the best things about Oshkosh and allows some great up close photo opportunities. For me it ruins both the Friday and Saturday air shows so those are the days I leave early. This is 2 years running this revised crowd line is present and it is sad that EAA have not taken any notice of the complaints after last year. What I find really frustrating is that the modified burn line is in place for the whole show - why not put the Blue Angels on first and then allow the crowd to move forward for the rest of the flying display. I note from the schedule that there will be several familiarisation flights on previous days so I hope the revised burn line is not in force on those days.

[Bill Greenwood]

I dont know how the non pilot gen public feels or even what segment of the public at Oshkosh is made up of this. Perhaps most of the crowd is acutually pilots or informed viewers, but for me, and I have heard others say the same thing, Id prefer not to have a big jet team at Airventure. It has nothing to do with gen aviation, takes up a lot of space, costs a fortune that could be better spent, and the noise impact makes it unpleasant to be most anywhere on the grounds, especially if they still fly over the crowd as in the past. So I try to avoid Oshkosh on the days the jet teams are there, but that takes 2 days out of my convention that I go a long ways to attend and at a considerable cost. EAA made this better in the past by scheduling the jet team as the last act of the day on Sat and Sun which is considerate so that I can have most of the day there and just leave at mid afternoon. Even then, if you are on the north side at a hotel or the terminal the noise hits you. And as Paul says there are plenty of other places to see a jet act if that is what you want.

[Mike M]

...EAA made this better in the past by scheduling the jet team as the last act of the day on Sat and Sun which is considerate so that I can have most of the day there and just leave at mid afternoon....

I agree with your points. But it's probably not EAA that wants to put the jets last. Personal experience - the Blues normally insist on being the closing act. Big stars close, they don't open.

And the "burn line" is an FAA thing, not just for the Blues or the T-birds.

PS we all know Lost Angeles normally votes blue, but the name of the United States Navy's flight demonstration squadron is the BLUE ANGELS would someone please change the spelling on the thread title?

[rwanttaja]

PS we all know Lost Angeles normally votes blue, but the name of the United States Navy's flight demonstration squadron is the BLUE ANGELS would someone please change the spelling on the thread title?

And here I thought the subject was the "naughty stores" in Southern California

Ron "Finally a subject I'm knowledgeable on" Wanttaja

[Mark17]

I'm excited to see the Blue Angels. I am most interested in the Jet Warbirds and Military Aviation as well as WWII Aviation. These are my main reasons for coming. The Blue Angels are a once in a lifetime opportunity for many and I'm really looking forward to seeing them perform right here at Oshkosh! FLY NAVY!!!! I get the burn line is not ideal and I agree with you guys on that. It's an FAA thing though and if we want to see the Blues perform it is what it is. I love jet power and the Blues are the pinnacle of Military aviation. It's an honor to have them at Oshkosh!

[CHICAGORANDY]

Airplanes are noisy - jet airplanes are VERY noisy - that hermaphrodite Jack Link's biplane with the jet engine is SUPER noisy and annoying..... and all are part of what makes Airventure...Airventure.

[Kyle Boatright]

I dont know how the non pilot gen public feels or even what segment of the public at Oshkosh is made up of this. Perhaps most of the crowd is acutually pilots or informed viewers, but for me, and I have heard others say the same thing, Id prefer not to have a big jet team at Airventure. It has nothing to do with gen aviation, takes up a lot of space, costs a fortune that could be better spent, and the noise impact makes it unpleasant to be most anywhere on the grounds, especially if they still fly over the crowd as in the past. So I try to avoid Oshkosh on the days the jet teams are there, but that takes 2 days out of my convention that I go a long ways to attend and at a considerable cost. EAA made this better in the past by scheduling the jet team as the last act of the day on Sat and Sun which is considerate so that I can have most of the day there and just leave at mid afternoon. Even then, if you are on the north side at a hotel or the terminal the noise hits you. And as Paul says there are plenty of other places to see a jet act if that is what you want.

I would absolutely eliminate the jet teams and the related crowd lines, and I think most EAA members would agree. EAA, on the other hand, likes collecting $$$ from Marge and Larry who drive in from Madison, and who wouldn't come (and pay admission, buy $5 Pepsi's, etc) if the Blues or T-Birds weren't there...

[Cary]

The fact is that the jet teams are huge crowd draws, not just for the non-EAA members who drive in from here and there in WI, but for many of us who fly in. I'd come anyway, but having the Blue Angels, the Thunderbirds, or the Canadian Snowbirds in addition to the usual performers is icing on the cake. These are the finest pilots of the services, and I think it's an honor to have them come. Their dedication to what they do is exemplary--and they may very well be what spurs members of the next generation to become aviators. And don't forget--if push comes to shove, these young men and women will be on the front lines of any future aerial combat.

Noise? Put on your headsets, or put earplugs in your ears. Airplanes are noisy! The noisiest of all are the Marine Harriers. You can't come to an event such as OSH and not expect it to be noisy. To me, there's nothing better than a pair of Mustangs that taking off at 6:02 a.m. only 50 yards from my tent--better than any alarm clock I can think of. :thumbsup:

Cary

[CarlOrton]

When I first started at General Dynamics in 1982, I was given a tour of the facility. We approached the main test lab where we'd be testing our products, which was located a few hundred feet from the runway. Just about when we reached the door, this un-painted F-16 does a full AB takeoff, and right about even with us went into a full vertical ballistic departure. To a newbie having his first exposure to what an F-16 could do, it was eye-watering. And that F-16, BTW, was one of the new birds that was destined to become a Thunderbird during their transition to that airframe. Even 30 years later, whenever a plane would kick in the "reheaters", ALL employees walking in from the parking lot would stop and gaze skyward. Whenever a B-1 did it, every car alarm in the lot would go off.

[krw920]

The fact is that the jet teams are huge crowd draws, not just for the non-EAA members who drive in from here and there in WI, but for many of us who fly in. I'd come anyway, but having the Blue Angels, the Thunderbirds, or the Canadian Snowbirds in addition to the usual performers is icing on the cake. These are the finest pilots of the services, and I think it's an honor to have them come. Their dedication to what they do is exemplary--and they may very well be what spurs members of the next generation to become aviators. And don't forget--if push comes to shove, these young men and women will be on the front lines of any future aerial combat.

Noise? Put on your headsets, or put earplugs in your ears. Airplanes are noisy! The noisiest of all are the Marine Harriers. You can't come to an event such as OSH and not expect it to be noisy. To me, there's nothing better than a pair of Mustangs that taking off at 6:02 a.m. only 50 yards from my tent--better than any alarm clock I can think of. :thumbsup:

Cary

+1

[Bill Greenwood]

Cary, comparing the sound of a Merlin in a Mustang takeoff, for a moment, to the noise made by a jet team in an hour long act is like comparing rap music from a boom box to a piano playing Beethoven
The Merlin not only sounds a lot better, but is nowhere near as noisy. Ears are not damaged by the takeoff sound or even fly by sound of a Merlin, unless you were really close, it might be heard over the airport but it does stop conversation and doesn't require ear plugs to avoid ear damage. .

[krw920]

Cary, comparing the sound of a Merlin in a Mustang takeoff, for a moment, to the noise made by a jet team in an hour long act is like comparing rap music from a boom box to a piano playing Beethoven
The Merlin not only sounds a lot better, but is nowhere near as noisy. Ears are not damaged by the takeoff sound or even fly by sound of a Merlin, unless you were really close, it might be heard over the airport but it does stop conversation and doesn't require ear plugs to avoid ear damage. .

To each, his own, Bill. I love both, the purr of a Merlin and the scream of the jets. They both are music in my ears.

Can't please all the people all of the time.

[DaleB]

My two favorite moments from last year... the "dawn patrol" flight of Mustangs, and a low F4 Phantom pass over a large gathering of RV builders/owners. I hadn't heard a Phantom in full song for a long, long time. Almost brought a tear to my eye.

The air shows... meh.

[Floatsflyer]

The air shows... meh.

I see your "meh" and raise to "naahhh". The exception are the shows at Ultralights, now those are just pure fun and put a big smile on my face.

[Kyle Boatright]

I see your "meh" and raise to "naahhh". The exception are the shows at Ultralights, now those are just pure fun and put a big smile on my face.

I'll take your "naah" and raise you by a "visit the vendor booths" or a "Find some shade, drink a beer, and read a book."

[Mayhemxpc]

My two favorite moments from last year... the "dawn patrol" flight of Mustangs....

.
My wife always says that is one her favorite things about AirVenture...the 6 am Merlin alarm clock. (Me too.) And Bill, I respectfully differ with your statement that a Merlin engine "does not stop conversations." Merlin engines certainly do stop conversations, as people look up and appreciate the source of the sound.

[RC Gregg]

Is there any word if we will see a demonstration by fat Albert?

[glider90]

Fat Albert is listed with the Blue Angels during the Friday and Saturday airshow, as well as Fat Albert Demo for the Saturday night airshow, which should be pretty cool.