Santa Monica Airport Closure

[jethro99]

I understand it. I be a pilot. For 40 plus years.

Local airport is near me. About two miles away.

Piston pilots take off and cruise climb at full power. 2700 RPM. For what seems forever. No such thing as reducing to climb power, at maximum rate of climb, over unpopulated areas.

Piston pilots descend to pattern altitude five miles out and power in with propeller at low pitch. Over populated areas.

In my youth, airplane noise did not bother me. It wrecked my hearing. That and age. Noise now bothers me. Piston pilots don't seem to give a damn about their neighbors. The professionals in gas turbines climb rapidly into the air.

Years ago I was in favor of the local airport. For later years I was then ambivalent. Now, if the county had a vote to do away with the local airport, I would support that action.

We have met the enemy and he are us.

[Mayhemxpc]

So I understand that you are not in favor of identifying a problem and then working to find solutions. Just kill aviation because it is more convenient to do so.

Where I am (HEF) there are airport procedures that most pilots seem to follow. The local government has also done the sound studies that show the local highways that border the airport (at downwind and base for the prevailing wind runways) produce more noise, consistently, at all hours, than the far less frequent airplane. Of course perceptions may be different than objective truth. People have a tendency to "tune out" some noises and complain about others. (Note that although people may tune out the road noise, it is doing far more damage than the occasional airplane.)

Pilots do as they are trained to do, at least initially. If the local FBO/flight school will teach a Vx climb to pattern altitude and then cruise climb, or power reduction -- when that is in keeping with recommended procedures for that airplane -- then that is what pilots will do. Descending to pattern altitude five miles out and at low pitch (for constant speed prop aircraft) seems like another training deficiency. (It also seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but I could be wrong.) Again, energize the FBOs, or on field schools, or heaven forbid -- the local EAA chapter - to get the word out. When someone sees a pilot flying in a manner unfriendly to the community, have a chat with them.

But I guess just saying the airport makes too much noise and we should close it is the easier solution.

[L16 Pilot]

No worse than idiot truck drivers that blast down the highway past my house with their jake brakes on ( braaaaaakkkkkk) even though they are not needed. Before anyone jumps on me I spent 40 years in various parts of the trucking business so I certainly understand the safety purpose of the engine brakes and where and where not they are needed. Harley owners also take notice.

[1600vw]

I said it before and will say it again. Aviation is being killed from within by those who are involved in it. It's an attitude thing. Until the attitudes change, nothing will change but for the worse.

[1600vw]

Instead of complaining and bringing up the negative. You could put a spin on this and say..I can not wait until battery powered airplanes are the norm. Maybe the change needed is to electric flight. Sure one could say we are years away from electric power. But if we close all the airports because of things like noise, when we do start to make airplanes that are making less noise, there will be no place to fly them out of except for the major's. Then people will start to complain about all the prop noise. Those darn props make a lot of noise. When will it end? When no one can do anything for fear of bothering someone else.

As to BRRRAAAAKKKK noise from Jak-brakes. I lived in Dillion Colorado right next to 1-70 coming out of the summit. The Jake brakes where nothing. It was all the asbestos from the truck brakes that bothers everyone in that area. In the summer when sleeping with the windows open the smell would wake you in the middle of the night. They call this area.. asbestos alley. You get use to those jake brakes. The smell of asbestos..not so much.

Tony

[martymayes]

I said it before and will say it again. Aviation is being killed from within by those who are involved in it. It's an attitude thing. Until the attitudes change, nothing will change but for the worse.

Of course there is an example or other evidence of where/why it is so? Or is this another sweeping generalization like all the pilots purposely making noise over the local community, causing resident uproar?

[martymayes]

so I certainly understand the safety purpose of the engine brakes and where and where not they are needed. Harley owners also take notice.
The Harley mantra is "loud pipes saves lives!" I don't have any data one way or the other but maybe they do?

[martymayes]

The smell of asbestos..not so much

How do we know that odor was asbestos? The MSDS says asbestos is odorless....

[L16 Pilot]

Well, I don't know if load pipes save noise but I'd probably hate it if my airplane engine stopped making noise. My little Honda CX is fairly quiet by the way.

[Bill Greenwood]

FAA has reportedly reached a compromise with City of Santa Monica to keep airport open at least through 2028, but in a lesser form, shorter runway for instance.
Too bad, a nice place, really nice in its heyday.

[1600vw]

How do we know that odor was asbestos? The MSDS says asbestos is odorless....

I worked in a Brake and clutch shop for a few years. Asbestos does smell when you burn it or heat it. We would burn it all the time. Asbestos sitting on a shelf, that is correct it does not smell. Heat it and it gives off an odor.

Tony

[jethro99]

So I understand that you are not in favor of identifying a problem and then working to find solutions. Just kill aviation because it is more convenient to do so.

Where I am (HEF) there are airport procedures that most pilots seem to follow. The local government has also done the sound studies that show the local highways that border the airport (at downwind and base for the prevailing wind runways) produce more noise, consistently, at all hours, than the far less frequent airplane. Of course perceptions may be different than objective truth. People have a tendency to "tune out" some noises and complain about others. (Note that although people may tune out the road noise, it is doing far more damage than the occasional airplane.)

Pilots do as they are trained to do, at least initially. If the local FBO/flight school will teach a Vx climb to pattern altitude and then cruise climb, or power reduction -- when that is in keeping with recommended procedures for that airplane -- then that is what pilots will do. Descending to pattern altitude five miles out and at low pitch (for constant speed prop aircraft) seems like another training deficiency. (It also seems like a bit of an exaggeration, but I could be wrong.) Again, energize the FBOs, or on field schools, or heaven forbid -- the local EAA chapter - to get the word out. When someone sees a pilot flying in a manner unfriendly to the community, have a chat with them.

But I guess just saying the airport makes too much noise and we should close it is the easier solution.

Not sure how you came to the understanding/conclusion that I am not in favor of identifying a problem and then working to find a solution.

The problem is apparent. The solution, not so much.

Are you married? Ever try and offer some driving solutions to the wife so as to make the car last longer, reduce fuel mileage and reduce brake wear? How did that work out for you? Same with pilots. They seem to be resistant to the acceptance of suggestions as to how to make life better for those around them. Same with the airport manager. They both apparently know all to well how to do their job and don't want "no stinkin' advice" as to how to do their job.

I have tried. All for naught. None are so deaf as those that refuse to hear. So, IMO if the pilot community does not want to become a better neighbor then the rest of the neighbors might just ask (force) them to leave the neighborhood. It has happened before Santa Monica. It is happening at Santa Monica. It will continue to happen after Santa Monica. When pilots cannot tolerate the actions of other pilots it is a big problem for the pilot community.

[1600vw]

We had a fly-in one day a few years ago. There was a group who came and stayed in their campers. The next morning I am hearing complaints about the noise from an airplane. I said..Imagine you are at an air park and you hear an airplane.

Tony