iPad Mini

[genav8r]

I'm a rusty pilot that just got my check ride after 16 years! So I went to the local FBO to purchase the Miami & JAX sectionals - no one sells them! So now I'm thinking about a tablet.

My questions are: :confused:

Apple or Android, and why?

WIFI or WIFI & Carrier Network and why?

Best Applications for VFR and IFR (Will start working on IFR in March)

Do the new programs correct headings for wind or do I still crank out the old EA-6B?

Cheapest, yet reliable alternative to Foreflight and others popular?

Are there any good on-line training opportunities; free or paid?

Accessories to use in C152 or C172?

Thanks in advance for your input and thoughts! :cool:

[Bill Berson]

I would order or print paper. I can't see my iPad mini in bright sun.

[genav8r]

I would order or print paper. I can't see my iPad mini in bright sun.


Just today I ordered on a subscription bases Miami and JAX sectionals....

[DaleB]

A lot of guys like ForeFlight on an iPad. I've seen it, it's pretty nice, but the price is pretty steep too. I bought a Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 (partly for its absolutely incredible display) with no cellular data. The internal GPS works quite well. It will run Avare, iFly, FltPlan Go, pretty much anything but ForeFlight. I like Avare, but I may buy a subscription for iFly GPS at some point. Avare has downloadable charts and A/FD for free.

I especially like being able to have EVERY chart available, along with the A/FD, ALL the manuals for my plane and engine, radio, EFIS, transponder, ELT, everything. And it will listen to my Stratux setup to show me weather and traffic, if there is someone within a few miles who's got ADS-B out.

I went with the Android device for a few reasons. First, the cost is FAR less than an iPad and FF. Second, I can use Avare, which is a very capable app that costs nothing -- even for the charts. Third, if I decide to and have the time to mess with it, I could let Avare drive my autopilot -- meaning no more needing to enter my route twice, once in the Garmin GS to drive the AP, and once on the tablet for planning. I elected NOT to get cellular data because I'm cheap. It would be nice to have, kind of... most of the time you're flying it won't work anyway. If I really really feel the need for updated WX before departure, I can always taxi past the FBO and pick up their wifi on the way out.

So, yes, I bought a not-too-cheap tablet, which I would have anyway. I dropped an extra $20 or so on a Ram ball mount holder for it. But for the past year my cost for software, weather data, charts and airport directories has been exactly $0.00. I can read the tablet just fine, even in direct sunlight, and can zoom in or out as needed. I love it and would do it the same a second time.

[genav8r]

That's the thing - it is worth an additional $100+ to get the iPad when a Samsung will do the trick - And I'm looking at Foreflight and Garmin and it all eats at you flying $$. I have a Samsung 8" but will probably upgrade to the 10.. I'll take a look at the Avare as well.

Very much appreciated! :)

[DaleB]

Definitely do look at Avare. Chances are it will do what you need.

Hardware-wise, my wife has an iPad bought a couple of months before I got my Samsung. Both are realy nice. I like my display a little better. Having used both Apple and Android for a while, I'm definitely leaning more toward Android but that's a matter of personal preference.

[FunInAviation]

I fly a Cessna 172. Here's my setup. It really works great. The yoke mount puts the iPad mini right in front of my face, with very little glare. I don't like using a glare shield at all. My Status II is mounted on the windshield using the suction cup that comes with the Stratus. Be sure and get an iPad that has the capability to have a data plan, not wifi only. The iPad that has a data plan capability will have a GPS chip. The wifi only iPad doesn't have a GPS chip.

I got my RAM Yoke mount from Amazon:
http://amzn.to/2jBircs

http://www.funplacestofly.com/photos/foreflight152554.jpg

[genav8r]

thanks for the info!

[FlyingRon]

I carry a full size iPad. The mini is just too hard for me. I've got it in a fold around OtterBox case (saved it a few times when it slid off the wing onto the ramp). I use AT&T because that was what all my other phones were more than anything else. Foreflight primarily but I've also got some of the Jepp stuff installed.

If you mean does the flight planner give you headings with WCA based on the winds aloft forecasts. Yep, at least foreflight and most likely everything else does/

[tcourt]

If you do go the iPad route, just remember that Wifi-only iPad's don't have a built in GPS. You've got to get the cellular data models to get the GPS. This means you will need to buy something like a Bad Elf (or a Stratus/Stratux with GPS) as well if you have a Wifi iPad. Depending on how much metal is over your head in your cockpit you may have needed an external GPS anyway.

[tcourt]

And on the wind correction front. The GPS in the app's gives you your course taking into account wind. You end up finding a compass heading that allows you to hold your course. This is very similar to out the window VFR flying where you point the plane in a direction that keeps you on a line where you want to go. But now there is a route line superimposed on a map and typically a short line extending from your current location towards where you are going. When the two lines overlap you are on route and on course. Very intuitive.

[Mike M]

Ditto what DaleB said. Recommend Android.

I also live near the junction of Miami and Jax sectionals, need the Class B chart, too. Have a Mustang II with an untinted bubble canopy. I've been using a Samsung Galaxy Tab2 10.1 inch (model # GT-P5113) for about three years. No data plan, built in GPS, wifi. Charts app is Avare. Built a Stratux (not Stratus) to get ADSB in, both traffic and weather. Didn't build the GPS option into the Stratux. Moving map display shows graphic TFRs, nexrad, metars, TAFs, aircraft tracking across your choice of sectionals, Class B charts, IFR high or low charts, geo-referenced instrument approach charts, and shows aircraft position on airport diagrams. Airport facility directory, terrain, traffic, flight planning, magenta line on the charts, etc. Total cost, hardware and software, including tax, $420 or so (not including phone). Recurring subscription cost, $zero (donations accepted). What Foreflight would have cost for this time period, minimum of $300 for software alone. Realizing that Foreflight has more options available if you pay more.

iPad I flew with once didn't work well in bubble canopy aircraft, the screen heated up in the sun and the unit shut itself down to cool off. I've never had the GT-P5113 shut down like that. But. Backup for the tablet is my phone. Stratux feeds the GT-P5113 and my Galaxy Core Prime phone simultaneously.

A friend has a Galaxy Tab with a 7" screen, running same app.

Avare does not play with iPads or iPhones.

Your mileage may vary.

[genav8r]

Thanks much -

[genav8r]

I'm guessing in the 152/172 that may be a problem...

[WLIU]

I'll put in a good word for the Samsung Galaxy Tablet with the 7" screen, an anti-glare screen protector, and the Naviator software. I flew a Pitts from NH to TX and back without paper charts for the first time and it worked great. Put the tablet on my knee to avoid glare under the bubble canopy. The only issue was that running the display at 100% brought the internal battery life down to only 4 hrs. An outside power "brick" or plugging into ships power solves that problem but it is one more cable to keep neat.

Much neater cockpit without paper charts stuffed here and there. And no trying to refold a sectional while the Pitts decides which way to spiral...

I did have an older Garmin 196 as a backup.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Auburntsts]

If you do go the iPad route, just remember that Wifi-only iPad's don't have a built in GPS. You've got to get the cellular data models to get the GPS. This means you will need to buy something like a Bad Elf (or a Stratus/Stratux with GPS) as well if you have a Wifi iPad. Depending on how much metal is over your head in your cockpit you may have needed an external GPS anyway.

That is not correct. I have a wifi-only iPad mini and it has GPS.

To the OP, I have used both a Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro 8.4 and now my iPad mini, both running GarminPilot. Both worked just fine so so can't go wrong with either choice. If you won't be using the tab for much of anything else, I'd go with the cheapest option. The one thing I really like about the Android tabs is most are capable of memory expansion with microSD cards where iPads are all internal. I also never had cellular capability because I never found a need. In an emergency my plan was to use my smart phone as a wifi hotspot if I needed to connect but in 5 years I've never had to.

as for the apps, they all pretty much do the same thing--best bet is download trial copies and give them a test run to see which interface and features you like best. I will say I will never go back to paper. And my backup is a second copy of my app GarminPilot) on my iPhone.

[genav8r]

I'll put in a good word for the Samsung Galaxy Tablet with the 7" screen, an anti-glare screen protector, and the Naviator software. I flew a Pitts from NH to TX and back without paper charts for the first time and it worked great. Put the tablet on my knee to avoid glare under the bubble canopy. The only issue was that running the display at 100% brought the internal battery life down to only 4 hrs. An outside power "brick" or plugging into ships power solves that problem but it is one more cable to keep neat.

Much neater cockpit without paper charts stuffed here and there. And no trying to refold a sectional while the Pitts decides which way to spiral...

I did have an older Garmin 196 as a backup.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Thanks for the input - I've stil not decided - I went to a FAAST seminar and they all flew iPad's! ny hanger neighbor flys the iPad... but another guy I know uses the Samsung. I have a 7" Samsung; 8GB so I will upgrade no matter what but the Galaxy Tablets are a little thin on the market now...

[genav8r]

Thanks for your insight! I am leaning the the Samsung...

[tcourt]

That is not correct. I have a wifi-only iPad mini and it has GPS.

I just rechecked the specs. The iPad Mini 4 Wifi doesn't have GPS. Often you will get location data on the ground because Apple and other companies have geo-located Wifi routers (yours and your neighbors).

See: http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini-4/specs/ (section Location, half way down the screen). You don't have to have a cellular data plan to get the GPS to work, but you do need the Wifi+Cellular model.

[WLIU]

One point that I found in favor of the Samsung was its ability to accept a flash memory card to expand the space available for apps. Apple is a closed box, and as noted above, the wifi-only model does not have a built-in gps. I have the basic Samsung 7" Galaxy model with 8Gb onboard storage, but I have installed a 32Gb SD card. I can load Naviator and all of the charts that I need onto the SD card. I also have the automobile navigation program CoPilot and all of the road maps I need on the SD card. So I can fly somewhere, and get a cheap rental car to get to my hotel, event, whatever, all using the same Samsung tablet. So if you already own a Samsung Galaxy 7", load up a free trial of one of the navigation apps, Naviator, iFly, etc., and give it a try before you spend more $$.

I know guys who are iPad guys and pair it with an external combo gps/ahrs/ADS-B in box. A very powerful setup but twice as expensive and overkill for a Pitts. You have to decide what works for you.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Auburntsts]

I just rechecked the specs. The iPad Mini 4 Wifi doesn't have GPS. Often you will get location data on the ground because Apple and other companies have geo-located Wifi routers (yours and your neighbors).

See: http://www.apple.com/ipad-mini-4/specs/ (section Location, half way down the screen). You don't have to have a cellular data plan to get the GPS to work, but you do need the Wifi+Cellular model.

You are 100% right--I stand corrected! I thought my wifi-only iPad had GPS but after reading your post I got to thinking and the last time I flew was back in August (had a partial engine failure) and haven't flown since. I then realized that I got this iPad a couple of weeks after that event and have not flown with it so have not seen it operate outside of a wifi environment. Had I flown with it, it would have been obvious I expect. All is not lost though, as I have a GDL 39 3D that I can use as an external GPS source. Boy do I feel like a moron.:rollseyes:

[genav8r]

Thank you again... and I will say, as a member of EAA I find the "community" extremely supportive of all who fly or love flying. Joining EAA was one of the best decisions I made when I decided to get back in the left seat.

[FunInAviation]

For those trying that decide to get an iPad with wifi only, it doesn't have a built in GPS. Here a quote from and article I found on ipadpilotnews.com

"Do you need a GPS? The first question some pilots may ask is whether you even need an external iPad GPS. If you own a WiFi-only model iPad, it’s simple – you have no built-in GPS so you definitely need one. However, LTE model iPads (ones with the cellular radio in it) have a built-in GPS receiver. Note that this GPS is completely separate from the cell service, so you don’t even have to have an active data plan for the GPS to work. You could buy an LTE model iPad, never activate your Verizon or AT&T service, and still have GPS data."
http://ipadpilotnews.com/2015/12/choosing-right-ipad-gps-tips-pilots/

http://amzn.to/2jkZVbP

http://ipadpilotnews.com/files/2014/12/dual-150-300x300.jpg

[stewartb]

I own two iPad minis (what happens when you change providers). Both are cellular models and both are loaded with Garmin Pilot and Foreflight. I have a GDL39-3D in my plane to enhance the capabilities of the iDevices. Truth is, I rarely take a mini for normal flying. My plus size iPhone has Foreflight and Pilot on it and does everything I need. I'd take the mini if I was going across the country but mostly because I use it for entertainment when I travel. For flying? My iPhone Plus has retired the mini.

[genav8r]

Thank you for the tip! I'm still leaning to the Samsung but not totally sold.....

[steve]

I've been using Garmin Pilot ($79 per year for the VFR subscription) for 4 years and running it on my wifi-only 2013 Google (ASUS) Nexus 7 tablet. I also run Pilot on my Samsung phone for near-time weather checks while on the ground, (no add'l charge to run the app on a second device).
If my Nexus ever goes TU, I'll replace it with another Android tablet and continue running the Pilot app.

[genav8r]

I am so Blessed that all of you shared your time and expertise to help a low-time rusty pilot like me. I have made a decision.... I ordered a Samsung Galaxy Tab A 16 GB with a 128GB micro SD. OH, and a ruggedized shroud in case the tablet slides off the wing!

God Bless and Safe Flying!

NOW, what should I do about software??!!

[DaleB]

I am so Blessed that all of you shared your time and expertise to help a low-time rusty pilot like me. I have made a decision.... I ordered a Samsung Galaxy Tab A 16 GB with a 128GB micro SD. OH, and a ruggedized shroud in case the tablet slides off the wing!You won't regret it.
NOW, what should I do about software??!!Try them all, keep the one(s) you like and use. That part will sort itself out.

[genav8r]

Dale, I like your thinkin'!

[Bill Greenwood]

You can order paper chart sectionals from Sportys and others, and batteries never run down on a chart. Charts are easier to read in turbulence, and glare than I pad.
Gps is nice to have with charts also.

[genav8r]

I have already subscribed! MIA & JAX starting in Feb every six months!!! My biggest problem with sectionals is the size of the print and with the tablet you can enlarge it....

Again, thank you for your input. I appreciate your expertise and wisdom.

[Auburntsts]

You can order paper chart sectionals from Sportys and others, and batteries never run down on a chart. Charts are easier to read in turbulence, and glare than I pad.
Gps is nice to have with charts also.

To each his own. The whole battery argument is a joke IMO. In over 5 years of using a tablet it's never been a problem for me. But as I have a backup it's really a non issue. Price is where it gets absurd. Using GarminPilot Standard (or any of popular EFB apps) I get all US Sectionals, TACs, TPPs, Low IFR (and High IFR if I had a use for them) and A/FDs for the entire year for $75 on 2 separate devices. The one-time equivalent in paper would cost $745 (even more for a subscription) and fill multiple chart bags. If you fly x/c or IFR much it's no contest.

[genav8r]

Dumfries! My old stomping grounds; got my SEL ticket at Quantico and I'm trying to talk my daughter and cuz into putting in a grass strip on our farm in Culpeper, but that's another story... for the time being I intend to use charts as I move to the tablet. It's what i know and while I will have a Tablet tomorrow when I fly I will also have a sectional with my pencil lines to the various waypoints. I have not decided on what software but I am doing the due diligence now. I trust Garmin, it was the first GPS in my 172R in 1998 and now that I'm getting back into the cockpit i want to see all of the options. But the Garmin Pilot looks like a very nice program and one I will try if they have a trial!

[Floatsflyer]

I want to provide some information to you but I can't right now. At the moment I'm watching the swearing in of the 45th and final president of the United States.

[Floatsflyer]

My biggest problem with sectionals is the size of the print and with the tablet you can enlarge it.

I'm a dyed in the wool map reader, going back 43 years of flying. I still keep the sectionals in my flightbag as backup and do still refer to them on the ground and on the kitchen table in addition to my use of a full size IPad(no phone capability)attached to a dedicated bracket bolted to the yoke.

If you were going to go with IPad I would strongly recommend the full size Air as opposed to the Mini. The print on the Mini is too small to read within the cockpit confines of a small aircraft. It also produces glare. No glare issues with the full size.

I do not require corrected vision of any kind in my daily life. My eyesight is 20/15(that's damn good)but I do need reading glasses for small print. I use magnifyer reading glasses, bought cheaply at any drug store, for reading sectionals, the IPad as well as the G1000 info in my aircraft(IMHO the G1000 is the most complex, unfun, unnecessary piece of avionics ever devised for small aircraft but I do digress). There are different magnifying strengths available so take a sectional with you to find the most suitable pair. You can also get bifocal magnifyer reading glasses that allow you to read a tablet/sectional as well as look outside at the same time without any distortion. I don't use bifocals as I somehow found the perfect strength magnifiers that allow me do both very effectively.

I use Foreflight with a Bad Elf GPS receiver to link to it. It's a terrific system with all kinds of goodies and features. The yearly subscription is reasonable and about the same cost as a cheeseburger, fries and a drink at Oshkosh. I didn't consider any other flight planning/flight information software other than Foreflight because I live in Toronto and Foreflight was the first(4 years ago)and is STILL the only one that has all Canadian charts, the Canadian Flight Supplement and Canadian Waterdromes. I like it a lot but I obviously never did any comparison analysis. Sometimes no choice is a great thing, a brain and time saver.

No need to worry or not worry about battery life of your tablet. Not if you install 2 built-in panel USB ports. Inexpensive and the best simple solution. All the best to you genav8r in getting back into the cockpit. Fly fun and fly safe.

[Bill Greenwood]

The whole idea of getting every chart for vfr and fir or the whole U S for $75 is a good sales pitch , but slanted. Todd when is the last time you used Ifr chart for S. Dakota? And what is the price for the device that displays that chart? It isn't included in $75!
A real chart, sectional is bout $10, can be left in the plane permanently , doesn't need batteries, which are not free for the $75, can be read in sunlight or bumps, and a year later most features will be the same. Osh has not moved in 30 years. And for $75 does the device update itself or have to be imputed?
Gps is great to use, but so is a chart, and not going to be programmed wrong.

[Floatsflyer]

And for $75 does the device update itself or have to be imputed?.

For Foreflight, the updates are very frequent. You do have to go to the dedicated update page(set like a home page) and press "download". That's all, easy peasy.

[DaleB]

That's what's so great about living in a free country with the choices we have. Bill, you can buy and use your paper charts for as long as they're available and fly without anything else in the cockpit if that's what makes you happy. I'll use my tablet to have everything I need available at no additional cost. And no, it wasn't free, but I would own it whether I used it for flying or not so it may as well have been for me. And I'll never have to buy a paper chart again.

My next airplane will be open cockpit and probably have only bare minimum instruments... airspeed, altimeter, compass and a couple of engine instruments. Electrical system? Maybe, maybe not. But I can tell you for sure, if I'm going far enough away from the home 'drome that I won't know the way back my heart, the little Samsung will be right there with me in case I need it. And I won't even worry how that will play with the leather helmet, goggles and silk scarf.

:)

[Auburntsts]

The whole idea of getting every chart for vfr and fir or the whole U S for $75 is a good sales pitch , but slanted. Todd when is the last time you used Ifr chart for S. Dakota? And what is the price for the device that displays that chart? It isn't included in $75!
A real chart, sectional is bout $10, can be left in the plane permanently , doesn't need batteries, which are not free for the $75, can be read in sunlight or bumps, and a year later most features will be the same. Osh has not moved in 30 years. And for $75 does the device update itself or have to be imputed?
Gps is great to use, but so is a chart, and not going to be programmed wrong.

The past July when I flew to Omaha which is covered by L12 (Nebraska and South Dakota). My point is even if you use fraction of the available charts and pubs they are all available for the same price and updates only take a few minutes to download--Way faster than the database updates I have to perform on my EFIS. But to give you a more real-world example, I fly to Ft Meyers, FL and New Orleans from VA at random, 3-4 times a year each. Here’s the approximate cost breakdown if I were to start from scratch without adding in the moving map, flight planning, weather, and other EFB (like ADS-B in and traffic if so equipped) and inherent Tab features that aren’t relevant to analog charts:

Year 1:

New Samsung Galaxy Tab 16GB - $200
EFB app $75 (Includes all CONUS VFR Sectionals, IFR Low, TPPs, A/FD (now Chart Supplements), fuel and AOPA data)
Total: $275

Paper equivalent subscription from MyPilotStore:
7 Sectionals -$108
5 IFR Low – $282
5 TPP books-$225
4 A/FDs - $114
Total: $729

Paper equivalent 2 one-time buys (no subscription) from MyPilotStore:
7 Sectionals -$108
5 IFR Low – $47
5 TPP books-$75
4 A/FDs - $38
Total: $269

Year 2:

Tablet - $0
EFB App - $75
Total - $75

Paper equivalent subscription from MyPilotStore:
7 Sectionals -$108
5 IFR Low – $282
5 TPP books-$225
4 A/FDs - $114
Total: $729

Paper equivalent 2 one-time buys (no subscription) from MyPilotStore:
7 Sectionals -$108
5 IFR Low – $47
5 TPP books-$75
4 A/FDs - $38
Total: $269

I have no issues if you prefer paper to electronic. However, for me the economics and capability afforded by my EFB outweigh any downsides by a huge margin. I will not willingly return to paper charts. YMMV…..

[Mike M]

Thanks for the input - I've stil not decided - I went to a FAAST seminar and they all flew iPad's! ny hanger neighbor flys the iPad... but another guy I know uses the Samsung. I have a 7" Samsung; 8GB so I will upgrade no matter what but the Galaxy Tablets are a little thin on the market now...

Because you have a Samsung 7" tablet already, stop wasting time. Get on google play, download free Avare now, use it to learn while you try to find some superdeluxepensive alternatives on which to piddle away money chasing the latest and greatest. Your mileage may vary.

[FlyingRon]

For Foreflight, the updates are very frequent. You do have to go to the dedicated update page(set like a home page) and press "download". That's all, easy peasy.

The rate of updates is NO DIFFERENT than the rate the government issues them (and no different than for PAPER charts). Sectionals are issued on a six-month cycle but they are staggered on 28 day boundaries. There is technically a chart update every 56 days in the supplement. The Supplement (fomerly AF/D) comes out every 56 days. IFR charts main cycle come out every 56 days with a midcycle (28 day) update. So, no matter WHAT software you are using, if you want to verify you have the latest version of everything, it needs to at least check for updates every 28 days. How much it has to download depends on what type of charts and what areas you have selected.

[Floatsflyer]

The rate of updates is NO DIFFERENT than the rate the government issues them (and no different than for PAPER charts). Sectionals are issued on a six-month cycle but they are staggered on 28 day boundaries. There is technically a chart update every 56 days in the supplement. The Supplement (fomerly AF/D) comes out every 56 days. IFR charts main cycle come out every 56 days with a midcycle (28 day) update. So, no matter WHAT software you are using, if you want to verify you have the latest version of everything, it needs to at least check for updates every 28 days. How much it has to download depends on what type of charts and what areas you have selected.

Your first sentence is correct but it's of no relevance. The factual reality is that the electronic software updates just present themselves as required. No one has to give it any thought whatsoever, just download. No one has to think about or ever care about 6 month cycles, 28 day boundaries, 56 day supplements, main cycles and mid cycles. Who gives a flying fidoo?

[WLIU]

For what its worth, my Samsung running Naviator always notifies me that updates to charts are available when I start the program. And the app itself regularly updates when I power on the tablet. I think that is part of the Android design as I also see updates to other apps at power up.

I have learned to start up Naviator in the FBO where wifi is available so that I have the latest data before going out to the airplane. All works pretty well. I do not plan on purchasing paper charts in the future. That said, I have a less functional Garmin 196 as a backup. I trust the data in the tablet but it is an electronic device that is subject to the same flaws that out panel mount electronics are. That is likely why all of the app providers make their terms of use cover 2 or 3 devices. Put each nav app on your tablet as primary and on your phone as a backup.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[stewartb]

I have Garmin Pilot and Foreflight subscriptions. Have had both for years. I prefer Foreflight for planning and GP for flying. Garmin Pilot updates charts automatically. When I get app store update prompts it's for an app update, not a data update. Foreflight prompts me to do updates and I have to initiate them. That's true whether the update is to the app or the charts.

I haven't bought a paper chart or Alaska Supplement in years. No need. My iDevices have proven reliable. More reliable than me remembering to update paper charts!

[Puertoricoflyer]

FWIW: I use the 8" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 (I paid $250 with 32GB capacity) with internal GPS chip. I added a 64GB SD chip ($15) for a total of 96GB of memory. The display is SUPER bright and it doesn't overheat as easy as the iPads do. I have it connected to a USB charging port on my panel so it never runs out of power.

I run the free FltPlanGO app which gives me geo-referenced maps, charts, plates, checklists, Weight & Balance an lots more. I also have about 40hrs of music on it wired to my audio panel. This set up works very well for me. YMMV

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag264/ghrmsr/Completed%20panel%20on%20ground_zpsgu0ffqpz.jpg
:cool:

[Mayhemxpc]

I have Garmin Pilot and Foreflight subscriptions.

What device are you using to get your data input? (e.g., GDL 69). I have been using Foreflight since it first came out and I am quite happy with it, but now that I have a D2 Bravo watch I am considering GP.

[stewartb]

I have a GDL39-3D that talks to both GP and Foreflight. I prefer the Garmin moving map page. I don't like chart views on moving maps. Foreflight's aerial view is nice but requires a cell or wifi connection. That's difficult for me. My iDevices are cell models so I don't need the GDL for them to work, and without the GDL they work fine. I have the GDL for ADHRS functions, the ADHRS contribution to synthetic vision, and ADS-B weather information. I have to get into the air to get reception to get that weather info but so far that hasn't been a problem. My new EX Cub (finished in April) has a G3X Touch with GDL39R. Yep, I'm a Garmin fan!

[Floatsflyer]

FWIW: I use the 8" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 (I paid $250 with 32GB capacity) with internal GPS chip. I added a 64GB SD chip ($15) for a total of 96GB of memory. The display is SUPER bright and it doesn't overheat as easy as the iPads do. I have it connected to a USB charging port on my panel so it never runs out of power.

I run the free FltPlanGO app which gives me geo-referenced maps, charts, plates, checklists, Weight & Balance an lots more. I also have about 40hrs of music on it wired to my audio panel. This set up works very well for me. YMMV

http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag264/ghrmsr/Completed%20panel%20on%20ground_zpsgu0ffqpz.jpg
:cool:

I'm not being glib or condescending, I am asking you a truth seeking, sincere and important question. Do you ever get your head out of the digital, multiple TV screened cockpit, look around outside for safety and actually enjoy being up in the air flying? That's my challenge, problem and annoyance bordering on anger with my G1000. And I'm rebelling against it.

[stewartb]

They are not "TV screens". They are aircraft instruments that display similar information as the steam gauges you prefer but the flat screens present more information better. These flat screens are incredible tools. Your presumption that people "watch" them is tired rhetoric. It is important that the pilot know how to use the device to minimize distraction but that's a matter of training and repetition. Just like when we first got handheld GPS units. We learned. In any case, this stuff doesn't represent the future, it represents the present. You may as well start getting used to it.

[Floatsflyer]

They are not "TV screens". They are aircraft instruments that display similar information as the steam gauges you prefer but the flat screens present more information better. These flat screens are incredible tools. Your presumption that people "watch" them is tired rhetoric. It is important that the pilot know how to use the device to minimize distraction but that's a matter of training and repetition. In any case, this stuff doesn't represent the future, it represents the present. You may as well start getting used to it.

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

I could be wrong, but I also strongly suspect that what we also have here is a generational divide. I've been flying for 43 plus years-- if I want to call my MFD and PFD "TV screens", then I know that I've damn well earned the right to do so! If you can't be helpful then don't start the conversation with semantics.

And furthermore, don't denegrate and dismiss my legitimate concerns by labelling them "presumptions" and "tired rhetoric". The concerns are sincere, real time and real life, devoid of bombast. I suspect you've confused me with someone else.

Yes, they are incredible tools but that doesn't mean they are good and effective without serious user flaws. I know how to use them, trained real hard to use them as well as overcome my personal distaste for them but that does not diminish the fact that the MFD is unnessisarily complex in terms of time consuming procedural steps for any given function. And that's what is distracting and keeping your head inside way too too much. It has the capacity to cause an unsafe environment.

[rwanttaja]

"What we have here is a failure to communicate."

I could be wrong, but I also strongly suspect that what we also have here is a generational divide. I've been flying for 43 plus years-- if I want to call my MFD and PFD "TV screens", then I know that I've damn well earned the right to do so!

A generation thing, certainly....

"Strike Eagle, Strike Eagle, they call me by name
I bomb the hell out of Goldwater range,
I fly o'er the mountains, I fly o'er the sea
Ain't no combat aircraft as deadly as me.

"I got enough TV sets for the whole VHF band,
My two couch potatos are the best in the land,
Cross-country on weekends, there's cartoons galore,
With enough screens left over to keep track of the war.

"I've done it for practice, in dark and in rain,
Seymour and Idaho, England and Spain
WESTPAC and NORPAC with other brave lads,
And I've done it for real over downtown Baghdad...."

- Dick Jonas, "Strike Eagle"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0tvADPkJfc

Ron "I usually refer to them as, 'The Video Game'" Wanttaja

[DaleB]

Yes, they are incredible tools but that doesn't mean they are good and effective without serious user flaws. I know how to use them, trained real hard to use them as well as overcome my personal distaste for them but that does not diminish the fact that the MFD is unnessisarily complex in terms of time consuming procedural steps for any given function. And that's what is distracting and keeping your head inside way too too much. It has the capacity to cause an unsafe environment.
Maybe that's a G1000 thing. I don't find flying with an EFIS any less distracting than flying behind 1960s vintage steam gauges. Less, in fact, since it takes zero twiddling to do things like know what my OAT and TAS and ground speed are. Everything's in one place, easy to see more information at a quick glance than was available before. It would be easier with a newer, flashier screen with more bells & whistles. As it is now most of the time I spend with my head down is futzing with the aging GPS, or looking up frequencies and dialing them into the radio. The newer ones with the COM, GPS & moving map integrated make that a lot quicker and easier...

allowing more time to look out the window.

[Puertoricoflyer]

I'm not being glib or condescending, I am asking you a truth seeking, sincere and important question. Do you ever get your head out of the digital, multiple TV screened cockpit, look around outside for safety and actually enjoy being up in the air flying? That's my challenge, problem and annoyance bordering on anger with my G1000. And I'm rebelling against it.
And what do you expect to see when flying actual IMC which is what this airplane is built to do on occasions?
http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag264/ghrmsr/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana/MUHA%20Approach%202_zpsc2vhrthv.jpg

FWIW in over 35yrs of flying I have learned how and when to use my equipment, something many pilots never learn to do.
http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag264/ghrmsr/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana/MUHA%20Approach%201_zpsnhiminmn.jpg
THIS is what the "TV" screens are for.
:cool:

[Mike M]

You folks all know there is a grain of truth in the preceding comments about being too busy inside to look outside. Since the proliferation of traffic avoidance presentations in the cockpit (TV screens?) I've noticed a lot more people obsessing over why they can't see that airplane fifteen miles away going the other direction 25k feet above them. Screen/outside/screen/outside/etc but not scanning for traffic, just looking for the "red dot" and ignoring the fact that many aircraft aren't displayed and the vultures, eagles, etc will NEVER show up on the screen until they come through the canopy and bounce off your head.

"It's a tool, son, don't cut yourself with it." said every Dad ever.

[genav8r]

Some more great gouge!

So I got my new Samsung TAB 2, 8" 16Gb tablet Friday and loaded the trial ver of Garmin Pilot. I flew it SAT AM on a 60mi X-country - I loved the "TV SCREEN"! And yes, other than a scan of instruments and tablet I was able to keep my focus outside of the aircraft. most of the trip - I will say the first 5 minutes after T/O I did take a hard look at the tablet after reaching alt and trimming the aircraft.... It was a real joy to just follow a digital rhumb line to my destination.

[Floatsflyer]

And what do you expect to see when flying actual IMC which is what this airplane is built to do on occasions?
http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag264/ghrmsr/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana/MUHA%20Approach%202_zpsc2vhrthv.jpg

FWIW in over 35yrs of flying I have learned how and when to use my equipment, something many pilots never learn to do.
http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag264/ghrmsr/1st%20US%20Experimental%20to%20Havana/MUHA%20Approach%201_zpsnhiminmn.jpg
THIS is what the "TV" screens are for.
:cool:

You don't only fly in IMC, do ya? So, since I have to couch my words carefully with you so you don't deflect, maybe you could answer my honest question when you are flying under VFR conditions.

[Puertoricoflyer]

You don't only fly in IMC, do ya? So, since I have to couch my words carefully with you so you don't deflect, maybe you could answer my honest question when you are flying under VFR conditions.
When VMC I fly VISUAL, hence the term. No need to look at the "TV screens" very much.

You do realize that some of us have "TV screens" yet can still fly visually or do you think having "TV" screens" means you can never fly visually? I honestly don't understand what one thing has to do with the other unless you are just arguing for arguments sake.

:confused:

"It's a tool, son, don't cut yourself with it." said every Dad ever.

My thoughts exactly.
:thumbsup:

[Floatsflyer]

When VMC I fly VISUAL, hence the term. No need to look at the "TV screens" very much.

You do realize that some of us have "TV screens" yet can still fly visually or do you think having "TV" screens" means you can never fly visually? I honestly don't understand what one thing has to do with the other unless you are just arguing for arguments

I can see very well that you don't understand. Never mind.

[Puertoricoflyer]

I can see very well that you don't understand. Never mind.
You are correct, I REALLY don't understand what you meant or were insinuating when you stated:

Do you ever get your head out of the digital, multiple TV screened cockpit, look around outside for safety and actually enjoy being up in the air flying? :confused:

But I still love my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 as replacement for my paper. :cool:

[Bob Dingley]

I'm not being glib or condescending, I am asking you a truth seeking, sincere and important question. Do you ever get your head out of the digital, multiple TV screened cockpit, look around outside for safety and actually enjoy being up in the air flying? That's my challenge, problem and annoyance bordering on anger with my G1000. And I'm rebelling against it.
Easy, big fella. It looks like PRFlyer has a sensible panel. I recall a glass panel that had:
An EADI and EHSI for each pilot. 4 displays.
An engine mgt display for each pilot. we're up to six now.
A central power & performance display. Count is now seven.
A Garmin 530. Screen count is now eight.
Sperry/Honeywell multi-mode radar. Nine displays total.
It had to be flown a lot "eye balls out" because of it lived in a high density traffic area. The displays are surprisingly easy to read and show a lot of info.

Bob

[DaleB]

This makes me want to ask, "Do you ever get your head out of the cockpit full of dials and gauges and instruments, look around outside for safety and actually enjoy being up in the air flying?"

6066

[Floatsflyer]

It looks like PRFlyer has a sensible panel.

Bob

Who said he didn't? Do you have a point to make?

[Floatsflyer]

This makes me want to ask, "Do you ever get your head out of the cockpit full of dials and gauges and instruments, look around outside for safety and actually enjoy being up in the air flying?"

6066

Ya, I did, very much. Thanks for asking.

[Mike M]

But I still love my Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 as replacement for my paper. :cool:


:)igottatab2tooandimnotgivingupmypaper:6067

[Puertoricoflyer]

:)igottatab2tooandimnotgivingupmypaper:6067

:eek: Not what I meant, but FUNNY!!!!!

[DaleB]

:)igottatab2tooandimnotgivingupmypaper
SoI'mnottheoonlyonewhosespacebardoesn'tworkinthequ ickreplybox??

[Bob Dingley]

Who said he didn't? Do you have a point to make?
Your Airmanship:

Think that I made it. You opined that all those pixels interfered with sight seeing and I demurred. Some day our trails may cross. We may sit down over our milk and cookies and you can tell me about sightseeing in Canada. I will bore you about the 14.7 hours of hood time that I logged in a Piper J-3 instrument trainer.

Bob