Legal Aviation Question

[Bill Greenwood]

Recently I was cleared for takeoff, and was part way down the runway when I decided to close the throttle and slow down and pull off at the last exit from the runway.
I had barely left the runway when the tower controller was demanding on the radio to "say my intentions". He then demanded. "say the reason for the abort". When he was screaming about my "intentions' I wasnt even on the runway and was in a non controlled "non movement" area.
My thought is that it is none of his business, and certainly not in the way he was going about it which was treating just a rejected takeoff as like some kind of emergency.
So my question, is does anyone know if there is a legal FAR reason why a pilot has to explain an aborted takeoff to a controller, and should he even be making such a demand?

I dont know for sure, but think this controller is one that I have had communication problems with before. He gets really excited and hostile and has several times confused my N number with other planes. He's new here in the last year.
We dont get to visit the tower here like we used to, so dont get to know any of the controllers. They have their own parking lot, and dont mix with the pilots. I think it makes it more difficult to deal with them.

[Mayhemxpc]

Hmmm… Having had a couple of rejected take-offs in controlled airspace, but not being an aviation attorney, I can hazard a guess. My guess is that you deviated from a clearance. You were cleared to take-off and you didn't. FAR 91.123 seems to apply and yes, you do have to tell him why. HOWEVER, that is never an excuse for rude or unprofessional behavior.

[Bill Greenwood]

Chris, maybe, but I doubt your interpretation. Lets say I was cleared to land but as I got near the runway I found the crosswind was too strong or I bounced the landing and then went around. Would that be considered devitating from a clearance or part of normal piloting.?I never before had a controller act like that and a few years back, same runway, I aborted when engine was rough and found it was due to a cracked plug.

[WLIU]

That's a real stretch. The "clearance" that 91.123 speaks to refers to an airspace or navigational clearance. You can always abort a take-off, or a landing for that matter. The Tower gets to wait until you are ready, as pilot in command, to communicate what your next intentions are. If you have any type of "controller" who thinks that they can demand your immediate attention, a post flight written complaint to their boss is in order. Demand that the tower tapes be reviewed and the professional conduct of the individual be addressed.

Too many pilots crash because they do what the controller says or talk to the controller instead of flying the airplane. "Wait One", or "Unable" are perfectly fine responses when your attention needs to be on the airplane and not some idiot who thinks that they can fly your airplane from their air conditioned seat.

The good news is that bad attitudes are rare in the tower cabs. And when you get a good one, say "Thanks for the help."

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[champ driver]

Bill, once you get a clearance to T.O. I would say that you own that runway to use it as necessary for the safety of flight.
That controller has no reason to get his shorts in a bunch, and I wouldn't worry about any consequences what so ever.
What ever the reason, you can always say that you had a bad indication on one of your instruments and wanted to check it out, NO ONE would ever fault you for that.
The reason for the abort is none of his business, you can tell him anything you want, whether it's the truth or something that just sounds good. If he's demanding a response immediately, tell him to stand by if you're busy with something.
Don't worry about anything, you're fine.

[cub builder]

Some FSDOs now want to investigate rejected take offs and some towers are reporting rejected take offs to the local FSDO for investigation. It's easiest if you just tell them there was a coyote on the runway. If they can't find the coyote, that's their problem, but it's an easy out for the situation. As PIC, you are always in command of your aircraft and should always put flight safety first. Never, ever be intimidated by a controller with an attitude. But it is the FAA's right to question why you did anything with your aircraft after the fact as they operate the airport and own the air space.

We used to have a controller at a nearby airport that loved to bully and scream at pilots. He and I had to reach an understanding of mutual respect. As soon as I demonstrated that I would not tolerate his tantrums and would not be intimidated, he never tried it again with me. In fact, if you heard us on the radio, you'd think we were best pals after that.

Cub Builder

[martymayes]

Recently I was cleared for takeoff, and was part way down the runway when I decided to close the throttle and slow down and pull off at the last exit from the runway.
I had barely left the runway when the tower controller was demanding on the radio to "say my intentions". He then demanded. "say the reason for the abort". When he was screaming about my "intentions' I wasnt even on the runway and was in a non controlled "non movement" area.
My thought is that it is none of his business, and certainly not in the way he was going about it which was treating just a rejected takeoff as like some kind of emergency.
So my question, is does anyone know if there is a legal FAR reason why a pilot has to explain an aborted takeoff to a controller, and should he even be making such a demand?

Yes, during one of my recent training events ATC gave a talk and said they have to have to ask for a reason why you aborted the takeoff as part of a program - occurrence reporting / data collection - don't recall the JO#. The PIC is still the PIC. If you're busy when he ask you to "say intentions" just press the PTT and say "stand by" until you're in position to advise your intentions. When the dreaded "say reason for the abort" comes just sum it up in 3-4 words so they can make their report. "engine overspeed", "caution annunciator light" or "rhinoceros on the runway" whatever the case may be.

Nobody is getting their wrist slapped and there may be no practical reason, it's just policy.

[FlyingRon]

"Screaming" is never an appropriate behavior on ATC's part. If such had happened to me, I'd be on the phone to the supe/QA the next business day as to the unprofessionalism.
Asking for a reason for an abort is entirely reasonable (and these days, probably mandated by some FAA policy).

[TedK]

Given that most bureaucracies want info in order to find something wrong with you, I don't think I would give ammunition to a potential witch hunt. "Bug in the cockpit". Impossible to disprove...

[martymayes]

there's a lot or RTO's performed every yr. Bet you can't find a single pilot that has been disciplined for rejecting a takeoff. :(

[Mayhemxpc]

In light of the other comments, let me clarify a bit. 1. Aviate, navigate, communicate, in that order. When clear of the runway and stopped, then you can chat with the controller. 2. If you go around at a controlled airport, you really should tell the tower what you are doing as soon as it is safe to do so. 3. Yes, you own the runway, but if you are doing something other than what you were cleared to do with that runway, you should tell the tower. As a matter of courtesy, all of these apply at non-towered airports too. I repeat, there is no excuse for rude or unprofessional behavior from the tower. You know, it is all recorded -- if you ever wanted to make an issue of the unprofessionalism.

The WHAT is the important part -- so he can give appropriate instructions to other traffic. E.g., someone else might be on final approach that now must go around. WHY could be important (a sinkhole just opened up at the departure end of the runway; wandering buffalo; use your imagination.) if not, then it can wait...probably until you want another take-off clearance, anyway.

[Mike M]

Don't lie.

Nobody rejects takeoff because everything is right. "Stand by." Followed by "I rejected because I wasn't sure if there was a problem. I've checked it out, request ..........." and then "Thanks for your assistance."

Your mileage may vary.

[martymayes]

lol, I dunno what all the adversarial response was about. This flying stuff is supposed to be fun. If it gets too stressful I'd take up golf or something.

[Bill Greenwood]

Chris, when I had a moment and was not fully busy, I did tell the tower that I was off at exit 1. Of course they could see that, hundred yard in front of them. And there was no other traffic on final approach and if there had been I was off the runway in the parking area almost as soon as if I had made a full takeoff. I closed the throttle befrore the mid point of takeoff.
I spoke to an aviation attorney who said there is no FAR or legal obligation to give a reason for rejecting takeoff. A person at EAA told me that their local tower may have the practice of asking the pilot, and he knows of one case where a pilot with an homebuilt and Rotax engine, ( not the case here) was given a hard time by the tower who tried unsucccesfully to make a case that the pilot was not maintaining the engine correctly.
Here, I just think it is a controller who is nervous, we do get a lot of jet traffic, ( the Clintons were just here,etc) and he overeacts.
His voice, tone and timing get so stressed that its like he is trying to pass that to the pilot.
By contrast, the guys at Osh are so good, that even in the busiest of times, they are encouraging not combative.

PS Marty, I have played golf, grew up around champions in the family. Its not easy, but if you miss a 3 foot put no controller comes on demanding to know why. Flying is a lot easier than golf and like skiing a lot more fun.

[martymayes]

Gotcha Bill. Last time I aborted a takeoff was at work and the speed at which it was initiated necessitated a lengthy written report and conference call with the chief pilot. I think I'd find a controller asking me why I aborted a takeoff in my 177 with no further action as refreshingly simple.

[champ driver]

Bill, I assume your coming out of Aspen, been there many time in years past.
You could tell him something as simple as the door popped open, or something you just wanted to check out on the ramp.
Don't worry about anything, you did nothing wrong.

[Bill Greenwood]

I spoke with another aviation attorney at AOPA. He said that I was given a clearance, to takeoff, and I did deviate from that, however the legal point as per FAR is I only have to inform ATC that I deviated, and I did Thatwhen I said I was pulling off the runway at A1. No further legal obligation to explain anything to a controller. Sounds right to me.. A local CFI says he aborted recently when power gauge looked wrong, and tower did ask him mostly the same thing.
I do wish there was always a friendly and cooperative feeling with ATC here, which is sometimes not the case. Wish everywhere was like Oshkosh as for pilots and controllers. I was listening Sun afternoon to the guy at Fisk who was really busy, but really positive and seemed like someone youd like to know, not someone who antagonizes toward private pilots and/or his job.

[martymayes]

I can see where confusion may arise if a plane is cleared for takeoff and pilot taxis down runway and exits without reporting what he is doing to ATC. Based on the P/CG, something like "N1234 ABORT" would be adequate notification that pilot will not comply with the previously issued clearance. Being somewhat important, I'd offer that to ATC as soon as time and workload permit (taxi speed and aircraft under control). Otherwise, I would expect a "say intentions" call from ATC as they have no idea what the pilot is doing.

The usual conversation I have gotten after calling abort is "do you need any assistance" "say intentions" and nowadays there is the "can you provide a reason for the abort?" That last is always a question, not a demand.

If ATC thinks pilot deviated from FARs pretty sure they would provide a "Brasher Notification" especially since the aircraft is still on the ground (that's were they notify of possible pilot deviation and advise pilot to contact the appropriate ATC facility via phone number they provide). At any rate, if it just doesn't feel right, can always file a NASA ASRS form about the incident if the time period has not expired.

[WLIU]

Tell 'me you've got a bee in the cockpit.

The pilot in command can reject a takeoff for any reason. Don't over think it and let ATC wait.

Wes
N78PS

[Frank Giger]

"Nieuport 2GV clear runway 21; forgot to pee as part of pre-flight."

;)

[rwanttaja]

"Nieuport 2GV clear runway 21; forgot to pee as part of pre-flight."

;)
"I had a needle entering the red."
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/fun_meter.jpg
Ron Wanttaja

[martymayes]

"I had a needle entering the red."


Wouldn't that be every takeoff?

[CDS]

Recently I was cleared for takeoff, and was part way down the runway when I decided to close the throttle and slow down and pull off at the last exit from the runway.
I had barely left the runway when the tower controller was demanding on the radio to "say my intentions". He then demanded. "say the reason for the abort". When he was screaming about my "intentions' I wasnt even on the runway...

It's the pilot in command's job to operate the aircraft - not the controller's (see FAR 91.3(a) below).

It is the policy of the FAA to track aborted take offs and they often will ask why as part of that reporting. As others have already stated, there's nothing wrong with telling a controller to "Standby" and answer the question later. Can a controller be assumed to be acting as the Administrator (see 91.3(c))? If so, then that reply would be "a written report."

IMHO, the AOPA attorney who said you deviated from a clearance doesn't understand the proper and legal role of the pilot in command (I have personal experience with ATC regarding this authority - I was victorious).

Sec. 91.3 Responsibility and authority of the pilot in command.
(a) The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft.
(b) In an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, the pilot in command may deviate from any rule of this part to the extent required to meet that emergency.
(c) Each pilot in command who deviates from a rule under paragraph (b) of this section shall, upon the request of the Administrator, send a written report of that deviation to the Administrator.

[martymayes]

para (b) and (c) of 91.3 only apply to aircraft in-flight. I would think definition of aborted takeoff plane never becomes airborne.

Regarding "administrator" very first definition in FAR 1.1

[FlyingRon]

I've had ATC ask why I'm changing my destination. At first I thought they were just hinky about destinations around the DC Area but they seem to want to know why in general now.

[Mayhemxpc]

I've had ATC ask why I'm changing my destination. At first I thought they were just hinky about destinations around the DC Area but they seem to want to know why in general now.

Two years ago, DC area to OSH. IFR. Needles on the fuel gauges were going down faster than I expected. Asked to amend flight plan to land at a closer airport than I had filed. ATC DEMANDED to know the reason for the amendment. I thought an attitude like that from ATC would be enough to discourage someone from making a wise in-flight decision. Certainly it is enough to make someone reconsider filing IFR. Like user fees, anything that discourages pilots from taking advantage of the system will decrease overall safety.

[FlyingRon]

I usually just tell them my wife has to use the bathroom. Never gets questioned.

[rleffler]

I usually just tell them my wife has to use the bathroom. Never gets questioned.

Same here.........

[martymayes]

I wouldn't let one controller having a bad day change my opinion. It's not like the pilot has to ask for permission to change his destination and provide a valid reason which may be rejected by ATC. I've changed destination dozens of times. Never had to answer to any demands. I got my job to do, controller has his job to do, there is some overlap, no need to make it an agonizing process.

[Mayhemxpc]

I didn't say it would discourage ME. Going back to Bill's original post, I just found it annoying. After all, I had not deviated from a clearance, I was just asking to change my flight plan. If I did not need an IFR let down to VMC I would have just cancelled and left it at that.

I dunno. Maybe they are worried about hijacking. Those Skypigs are WMD waiting to be set loose, you know.

Almost all of the controllers I have encountered are professional and helpful. Only rarely is there one who encourages you to avoid participating in the system. For someone new to the system, however, one may be enough.

[CDS]

para (b) and (c) of 91.3 only apply to aircraft in-flight. I would think definition of aborted takeoff plane never becomes airborne.

Not really. That is, the practical impact of 91.3a covers all operations, not just when airborne.

Good point regarding what - who - is the Administrator. FAR 1.1 states that "Administrator means the Federal Aviation Administrator or any person to whom he has delegated his authority in the matter concerned." As it's been explained to me, that could include a controller. In any case, only a written report is required.

[martymayes]

Add one more to the list! I was flying into ATL this afternoon and the plane in front of us went around when they were on short final at ~400'
When ATC was handing them off to the approach controller, he asked the reason for the go-around. Not demanding or rude, just an inquiry. I thought about this thread and wondered how many would object to such a question?? I thought the airline crew handled it quite professionally.

[Byron J. Covey]

Add one more to the list! I was flying into ATL this afternoon and the plane in front of us went around when they were on short final at ~400'

I was riding with Delta back before I put them on my no-fly list. We had departed for TPA late, and as we neared the airport, the captain announced that we had been cleared for a visual aproach, and that that would allow us to make up some lost time. He flew a really tight pattern, with steaper than usual turns. We were way too high and fast, and crossed the threshold in a position from which we could not land from. The captain powered up to go around, and announced, "We are having to go around, because, er .. ah .. a small plane pulled out on the runway in front of us."

I was not in a rush, so I waited to be the last passenger to get off. The captain and the FO were standing up front thanking passengers. I paused, and said to the captain, "Small plane?" He immediately turned red, and looked down. The FO was doing everything that he could to supress a snicker.


BJC

[Mayhemxpc]

How very disappointing from the Delta captain. And how did he learn to fly? He undermined general aviation to all of his passengers. I also wonder what else he lies about -- at least with regard to aviation safety.

[DaleB]

An airline captain admitting that he'd blown a visual approach would be met with a shrug or a chuckle by you or I or most other pilots. Some passengers would freak out, it's almost certain someone would file a complaint with Lord-only-knows-who, and even some pilots would be jerks about it.

I'd have blamed some other imaginary obstruction. :)