Valdez STOL Competition Feedback

[JugheadF15]

I am interested how many people have taken in the Valdez STOL Competition at Oshkosh. What did you like about it? What didn't you like about it? What would you recommend to make it more entertaining, informative, etc?

Thanks for your feedback.

Jughead

[keen9]

It was so nice to see something unique at OSH again! It would be nice to have a skilled commentator. I know that the pilots are all using differing techniques (tail up, tail down, etc), but why, and there are certainly more detailed variations that I miss.

[Tom Steber]

Loved it! All of it. Every time they've come it's been one of the highlights of the year. Looking forward to this year as well.

[FlyingRon]

I thought it was great. One of the best things I've seen in the airshow in a while. Missed the demo at the ultralight runway, but caught both days they did it from the big runway.

[JugheadF15]

Keen9

I am pleased to announce that they have obtained an new commentator for this years show. The gentlemen has 19 years of very entertaining airshow experience, where he interacts extensively with the crowd and the performers. He also owns a C-170 that he routinely takes into very short backcountry locations, so you can expect a much more informative and educational narration experience this year.

[keen9]

I hope he uses the backcountry experience at OSH, and not the "entertaining" airshow experience. More "Whoh! Look at that folks!" is NOT needed. There's already waaaaaay too much of that coming out of the line of speakers during the airshows.

The relaxed commentary was fine. I'd just like more detailed info. Your audience is a bunch of interested pilots, not Joe Blow.

[wyoranch]

Keen9

I am pleased to announce that they have obtained an new commentator for this years show. The gentlemen has 19 years of very entertaining airshow experience, where he interacts extensively with the crowd and the performers. He also owns a C-170 that he routinely takes into very short backcountry locations, so you can expect a much more informative and educational narration experience this year.
That is awesome!!!! But please educate him on NOT using buzzword.... I don't know what it would be but I swear if I hear the STOL equivalent of 'A prize from winning the Cold War' I am going to have a stroke. lol
Rick

[JugheadF15]

I hope he uses the backcountry experience at OSH, and not the "entertaining" airshow experience. More "Whoh! Look at that folks!" is NOT needed. There's already waaaaaay too much of that coming out of the line of speakers during the airshows.

The relaxed commentary was fine. I'd just like more detailed info. Your audience is a bunch of interested pilots, not Joe Blow.

One of this gentlemen's strengths in his airshow narration history, was his very vast experience in nearly all types of aviation and a very very broad range of aircraft and operations. So I'm pretty sure you will like what he brings to this years show. His goal is to help put you "in the cockpit." He is not a stats and numbers type of guy that reads out of Jane's.

[FlyingRon]

So are they going to get to demo at show center at all this year? The schedule has them stuck on the ultralight runway during all the listed appearances.

[Floatsflyer]

So are they going to get to demo at show center at all this year? The schedule has them stuck on the ultralight runway during all the listed appearances.

Ron, you say that as if it's a bad thing. Their demonstration at the ultralight runway is a far more intimate and up-close, highly detailed experience than show centre could ever produce for this kind of big skilled event.

[FlyingRon]

Ron, you say that as if it's a bad thing. Their demonstration at the ultralight runway is a far more intimate and up-close, highly detailed experience than show centre could ever produce for this kind of big skilled event.

Which is why they should do both, but it was fun watching them at show center and viewed by an order of magnitude more people than could ever be supported at the UL runway.

[Floatsflyer]

I certainly expect that many more stands will be erected to accommodate the anticipated increased crowds. Usually there are only 2 seating stands at UL throughout the week if I recall correctly. The many more additional stands are needed to watch an event like this with a bigger crowd or else one won't see much unless you are seated in the existing stands or standing in the first row or two behind the fence.

ARE YOU LISTENING EAA OSHKOSH ORGANIZERS???!!!

[Glory Aulik]

I certainly expect that many more stands will be erected to accommodate the anticipated increased crowds. Usually there are only 2 seating stands at UL throughout the week if I recall correctly. The many more additional stands are needed to watch an event like this with a bigger crowd or else one won't see much unless you are seated in the existing stands or standing in the first row or two behind the fence.

ARE YOU LISTENING EAA OSHKOSH ORGANIZERS???!!!

Thanks for the feedback!

[JugheadF15]

Rumor has it that we are going to see a brand new airplane competing this year. I won't spill all the beans, but it was specifically built up to be a great STOL bird and is being flown by a gentlemen that has the skills to really make it dance. I look forward to seeing what he can achieve with only 1 week of practice time with a new airplane.

[JayJ]

Rumor has it that we are going to see a brand new airplane competing this year. I won't spill all the beans, but it was specifically built up to be a great STOL bird and is being flown by a gentlemen that has the skills to really make it dance. I look forward to seeing what he can achieve with only 1 week of practice time with a new airplane.

Is he in Oshkosh already? There's been a guy the past few mornings (early) making a plane dance around the airport before the tower opens....to say its impressive is an understatement.

[JugheadF15]

JajJ, I suspect you may have been seeing Frank Knapp and Lil' Cub out practicing the last few days. I know he is already in town. The A/C I referred too is not due to arrive until Sat or Sun.

[BeagleOne]

I didn't enjoy it because the commentary was so uninformative. Will give it another look this year since you have a new commentator lined up, and plan to take a look at the ultralight runway competition as well.

[JugheadF15]

BeagleOne, Glad to hear you are willing to give it a try again. Let EAA know if you think it is better this year.

[JugheadF15]

Anxious to see if anyone saw the Tuesday evening performance and what they though of it? Tough conditions for the guys. Low light angles, squirrelly crosswind that ransitioned to a tailwind near touchdown. They definitely had fun though and enjoyed flying for the great crowd.

[spongebobiwan]

I watched on replay, but not live. The broadcast was pretty good. There were a few freezes and glitches, but not bad at all. The competition itself was very enjoyable. I saw it last year on the main runway and during the airshow, and I've seen it previous years as well. I'm not sure why the decision was made to put this event over in ultralight instead of as part of the main show, as I really enjoy it and perhaps many that can't make it to AirVenture or don't make their way over to ultralight much would miss this. Regardless, it is still and event that is well worth seeing if a person ever has the chance.

P.S. I think I remember seeing one 60 ft. landing, is that right? Or did I miss an ever better one? Are the results posted any place?

[wyoranch]

I am sorry I missed it. Was it broadcast live? What is the schedule? I really enjoyed it when I was there in person.
Thanks in advance
Rick

[spongebobiwan]

Rick. Gosh darn it, I'm trying to remember how I viewed the replay, or if I was watching it live. I've go so many video feeds going at the same time here, all the tower cams, the airshow cams, theater in the woods, around the grounds, periscope, and a couple others I can't think of at the moment.
I'm pretty sure it was broadcast through Around the Grounds. And now, I'm questioning myself as to whether I watched a replay or I was watching it live. I checked to see if there was a replay in the More Around the Grounds feed, but didn't see it there. Maybe I viewed it on Periscope. I dunno anymore. LOL
Maybe somebody can chime in and help and old feeble mind (mine) out here.

[JugheadF15]

P.S. I think I remember seeing one 60 ft. landing, is that right? Or did I miss an ever better one? Are the results posted any place?

Yes Frank Knapp and Lil Cub did post a 60' landing. Let me see about posting the scores.

[Sirota]

JugheadF15,

I watched the competition from a few hundred feet north of the windsocks. From that angle we couldn't see the landing line. If you do it again, I'd put up a bigger marker. EAA dropped the ball and didn't have any additional bleachers (that I saw anyway). Trying to see between the heads in front of me, and standing after a long day of walking the grounds, took some of the fun out of it. All in all, I enjoyed it and hope you guys bring it back in the future. This is intended to be CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and not bitching.

[JugheadF15]

Sirota, Thanks for the great feedback. I will pass it on to EAA and the local organizers. We will also make an effort to better explain the lines/cones/markers to the crowds.

[JugheadF15]

Okay, You asked for the results, here they are. I broke the aircraft into 2 categories: Light Sport and Non-Light Sport.

Light Sport

1st: Frank Knapp, Lil Cub, 140 feet
2nd: Steve Henry, Highlander "Yee Haw" 247 feet
3rd: Chuck Kinberger, Carbon Cub, 255 feet

Non Light Sport

1st: Jay Stanford, PA-18 Exp, 252 feet
2nd: Jason Sneed, Carbon Crab, 292 feet
3rd: Doug Wilson, Pegazair, 300 feet

Joe Dory Sr, Super Cub Exp, 112/DQ, 115/DQ
Ladd Klinglesmith, Carbon Cub, 115/200+, 119/DQ
Jay Stanford, Super Cub Exp, 120/132, 125/180
Chuck Kinberger, Carbon Cub, 120/205, 110/145
Greg Swingle, Rans Courier, 155/165, 150/190
Steve Henry, Highlander, 110/DQ, 112/145
Doug Wilson, 160/162, 155/145
Jason Sneed, Carbon Cub, 109/190, 112/180
Hal Stockman, Rans S7S 132/180, 133/185
Frank Knapp, 65/DQ, 80/60
Ed Doyle, Super Cub, 108/DQ, 135/DQ
Dan DuFault, PA-18 Exp, 128/200+, 130/DQ
Bob Lutz, Super Cub, 177/DQ, 190/220
Joe Dory, Jr, C-180, 172/300+, 175/DQ

[JugheadF15]

Today we faced even more difficult wx conditions. 10-15Kts left crosswind, wet grass, and landing downhill. Wx was enough of a factor that 5 guys elected not to fly under the conditions faced. Today was meant to be more of a "Play Day" where the pilots could fly a more "Freestyle" demonstration. Pops Dory flew several 90 degree and even a 180 degree turning takeoff. We were able to witness a wide variety of techniques from all the performers, allowing the fans to see how each one affected their performance. On certain days I wish I could be flying for the fans instead of narrating, today, I was thankful that all i had to do was talk, entertain and inform the crowd of what they were seeing. It was a tough day of flying. See everyone tomorrow night at 7:30 for round two of the measured competitions.

Jughead

[AB9NZ]

Jughead, were you the fella in the tuxedo Tuesday? What a great announcer that guy was. Really amazing airmanship by all the contestants.

[JugheadF15]

Jughead, were you the fella in the tuxedo Tuesday? What a great announcer that guy was. Really amazing airmanship by all the contestants.

Yes sir, that is me. I'm glad you are enjoying the event

[JugheadF15]

Anyone had a chance to stop by the Cub Craftsers display and check out their new X Cub? When you do, tell them Thanks for sponsoring the STOL competition.

[JugheadF15]

Well tonight we faced even tougher wind conditions that during our first round of competition and our Friday Freestyle fun fly. What started as a direct crosswind turned into a definite tailwind component as the flying progressed.

Pop Dory, 152/194 = 346 130/157 = 287
Ladd Klinglesmith, 119/200+ 135/200+
Jay Stanford, 125/170 = 295 128/200+
Chuck Kinberger, 135/SQ 139/200+
Greg Swingle, 175/SQ 182/200+
Steve Henry, 114/SQ 108/200+
Doug Wilson, 163/172 = 335 161/179 = 343
Jason Sneed 131/SQ 131/SQ
Hal Stockman 133/230 = 363 122/240 = 364
Frank Knapp 85/100 = 185
Ed Doyle 130/SQ 131/192
Bob Lutz 191/SQ 200+/200+

Tomorrow at 11AM we fly our final event. Be sure to stop by Cub Crafters and check out the new XCub!!!!!

[mazdaP5]

Crud! I must have missed it completely! Sounds fun.

[JugheadF15]

It was so nice to see something unique at OSH again! It would be nice to have a skilled commentator. I know that the pilots are all using differing techniques (tail up, tail down, etc), but why, and there are certainly more detailed variations that I miss.

Keen9,

I hope you were able to take in this years event. If so, did you like it better?

[Low Pass]

I thoroughly enjoy the STOL demos! Leave them at the ultra light area so I/we can actually see them. One suggestion for the ultra light area, how about a few more bleachers?

[keen9]

Keen9,

I hope you were able to take in this years event. If so, did you like it better?

Unfortunately, I didn't make it down there. I guess that leaves me with a complaint about the scheduling! The late day events don't work for me at all, and I had other conflicts for the 11am days. It is hard with so much going on. An event that I've seen the previous two years does lose some priority.

[gbrasch]

Thanks for the feedback!
I guess they were not listening because there were not any extra bleachers. Unlike Sirota, I am tall enough to see over most people (we are good buddies, sorry Dave), but it was very crowded and hard to see. But the event was great and I look forward to it next year.

[JugheadF15]

GBRASCH

I wouldn't say they weren't listening, but AirVenture is obviously a huge/complex machine and getting more bleachers secured and moved into place may not have been realistic in just a couple days notice. I'm not sure about this, but I have organized enough air shows to know that this is a real possibility. I promise you though that they have heard the message and it will be discussed for in the future. Next year's planning meetings start next week. Trust me that I have and will continue to push this issue. Thanks for your passion and support of the STOL event.

PS. I love your courtesy car app, thank you for that.

[Floatsflyer]

GBRASCH

I wouldn't say they weren't listening, but AirVenture is obviously a huge/complex machine and getting more bleachers secured and moved into place may not have been realistic in just a couple days notice. I'm not sure about this, but I have organized enough air shows to know that this is a real possibility. I promise you though that they have heard the message and it will be discussed for in the future. Next year's planning meetings start next week. Trust me that I have and will continue to push this issue. Thanks for your passion and support of the STOL event.

I disagree. They had much more notice than just a couple of days as my post #12 in this thread attests to, a full 3 weeks before the start of Osh. My message was heard loud and clear and acknowledged by a moderator of this forum with what I thought was a mostly FY dismissive response. Anybody who's been to UL would know the area could not accommodate the expected crowds in a manner that would allow for good sight lines. I'm sorry to say it but your great Valdez event was not given the due respect it deserved by the organizers.

And now for something completely different. I gotta ask you Jughead, are you Betty guy or a Veronica guy? Me, it's been Veronica for decades.

[Sirota]

God only gives you so many hormones Glenn. You apparently chose to use yours on height. I've got better uses for mine ;)

[gbrasch]

GBRASCH

PS. I love your courtesy car app, thank you for that.

Thanks, appreciate that, so if I can do a plug, over 11,000 pilots using it and I am approaching 1,700 car locations nationwide. Still (barely) managing to keep the app free. Glenn

[Byron J. Covey]

I disagree. They had much more notice than just a couple of days as my post #12 in this thread attests to, a full 3 weeks before the start of Osh. My message was heard loud and clear and acknowledged by a moderator of this forum with what I thought was a mostly FY dismissive response. Anybody who's been to UL would know the area could not accommodate the expected crowds in a manner that would allow for good sight lines. I'm sorry to say it but your great Valdez event was not given the due respect it deserved by the organizers.

And now for something completely different. I gotta ask you Jughead, are you Betty guy or a Veronica guy? Me, it's been Veronica for decades.

I suspect that the organizers will appreciate your help in making it happen in 2017.


BJC

[JugheadF15]

I disagree. They had much more notice than just a couple of days as my post #12 in this thread attests to, a full 3 weeks before the start of Osh. My message was heard loud and clear and acknowledged by a moderator of this forum with what I thought was a mostly FY dismissive response. Anybody who's been to UL would know the area could not accommodate the expected crowds in a manner that would allow for good sight lines. I'm sorry to say it but your great Valdez event was not given the due respect it deserved by the organizers.

And now for something completely different. I gotta ask you Jughead, are you Betty guy or a Veronica guy? Me, it's been Veronica for decades.

GBRASH,

You are correct sir, I had forgotten about that post earlier on, and the administrator's response. While I'm not part of the planning/operations group. I will continue to push this issue to those that are involved at that level. There are over 5,000 volunteers that make this week the wonderful event it is. I'm not making excuses for them, but I would be interested to know what the limiting factors that prevented more bleachers from being placed may be.

Veronica, definitely!