Sport Pilot Academy

[Jim Heffelfinger]

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/06-02-2016-learn-to-fly-the-oshkosh-way-at-eaas-inaugural-sport-pilot-academy?utm_campaign=marketing&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_feed&utm_content=link&utm_term=sport_pilot_announced#prclt-h8f2KAr3

I read with great interest the Oshkosh based SPL program. I, like many out there, have been dabbling at their ticket way too long with long gaps between flights, difficulties with time and money coinciding, juggling disposable income with family needs and finding instructors willing to take on the SPL program. A concentrated program is ideal in so many ways. I scrolled down through the requirements..... looks good. And then the bottom line hit me. $10K.
Hummm. I get the OSH experience - I was at leadership a few years back - it was transformative - and the reason I have doubled-down on my service hours for the chapter. It still seems a bit high. Since I know it takes about $4K for the instructor/plane does the rest cover the room/board?
Just asking.
Jim

[TedK]

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/06-02-2016-learn-to-fly-the-oshkosh-way-at-eaas-inaugural-sport-pilot-academy?utm_campaign=marketing&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_feed&utm_content=link&utm_term=sport_pilot_announced#prclt-h8f2KAr3

I read with great interest the Oshkosh based SPL program. I, like many out there, have been dabbling at their ticket way too long with long gaps between flights, difficulties with time and money coinciding, juggling disposable income with family needs and finding instructors willing to take on the SPL program. A concentrated program is ideal in so many ways. I scrolled down through the requirements..... looks good. And then the bottom line hit me. $10K.
Hummm. I get the OSH experience - I was at leadership a few years back - it was transformative - and the reason I have doubled-down on my service hours for the chapter. It still seems a bit high. Since I know it takes about $4K for the instructor/plane does the rest cover the room/board?
Just asking.
Jim

The registration fee includes all instruction, materials, meals and lodging in the EAA Air Academy Staff Lodge, located at Pioneer Airport on the grounds of the EAA AirVenture Museum at Oshkosh, Wisconsin. Participants will have their own room and private bathroom. High standards of safety, appearance, and cleanliness are an EAA tradition.

When you figure in the three weeks of room and board, it doesn't seem too over the top.

ted

[Frank Giger]

I'm not knocking the program on its merits, but what happens when there's crap weather for two of the three weeks?

As a Sport Pilot, there were many times in my training where winds scrubbed a day's flying.

[TedK]

I'm not knocking the program on its merits, but what happens when there's crap weather for two of the three weeks?

As a Sport Pilot, there were many times in my training where winds scrubbed a day's flying.

There are other places offering two weeks to SP ticket. This would seem to place a 50% pad on that. I don't see any reason that you couldn't get the 20ish hours required in this immersive environment.

[Mike A]

I'm 58 and a recently retired Firefighter wanting to build a homebuilt LSA and get a Sport Pilot License.

Scouring the Internet for information about Sport Pilot Training I came across this thread, and I like it. I'm a long time EAA Member and have been to AirVenture many times. One of the best things about AirVenture is the like mindness and fellowship of everyone with the same love of Aviation and the EAA grounds just feel like home to me.

Unlike the slightly put off look I have often got when asking about anything Sport Pilot at my local airports, Im relieved to see there's now available a positive and welcoming Sport a Pilot atmosphere that I'm sure that an EAA Academy will offer and at my favorite place to be.

I was a student pilot 25 years ago. Even though I soloed early on, because jiving mine and my instructors schedules was such a PITA, sometimes I only flew once a month and my training stretched out for over a year which became so discouraging I quit instead of getting another instructor like I should have. The idea of living and breathing aviation trying with fellow like minded enthusiasts for several weeks on the hallowed AirVenture grounds sounds too good to be true.

Count me in.

[Eric Cernjar]

I'm 58 and a recently retired Firefighter wanting to build a homebuilt LSA and get a Sport Pilot License.

Scouring the Internet for information about Sport Pilot Training I came across this thread, and I like it. I'm a long time EAA Member and have been to AirVenture many times. One of the best things about AirVenture is the like mindness and fellowship of everyone with the same love of Aviation and the EAA grounds just feel like home to me.

Unlike the slightly put off look I have often got when asking about anything Sport Pilot at my local airports, Im relieved to see there's now available a positive and welcoming Sport a Pilot atmosphere that I'm sure that an EAA Academy will offer and at my favorite place to be.

I was a student pilot 25 years ago. Even though I soloed early on, because jiving mine and my instructors schedules was such a PITA, sometimes I only flew once a month and my training stretched out for over a year which became so discouraging I quit instead of getting another instructor like I should have. The idea of living and breathing aviation trying with fellow like minded enthusiasts for several weeks on the hallowed AirVenture grounds sounds too good to be true.

Count me in.

Hey Mike,

By 'count me in', do you mean this is something you want to pursue this year, or sometime in the future?

Thanks!
Eric

[Mike A]

Hey Mike,

By 'count me in', do you mean this is something you want to pursue this year, or sometime in the future?

Thanks!
Eric

Hi Eric, yes!

I just got an email reply from Preston Goetz answering an inquiry I made about the Academy future dates. He said, as of now, there are no future Academy's planned until they see how this first plays out. I'm seriously crossing my fingers everything goes well.

Along those lines, does anyone even know about the availability of this Academy? I'm a little worried this first one won't even have a full attendance just because no one knows about it. I was just lucky enough to be searching these forums for information about Sport Pilot and saw this thread, otherwise the only Academy I would be aware of is Young Eagles. Hopefully this years AirVenture spread the word.

[Eric Cernjar]

Hi Eric, yes!

I just got an email reply from Preston Goetz answering an inquiry I made about the Academy future dates. He said, as of now, there are no future Academy's planned until they see how this first plays out. I'm seriously crossing my fingers everything goes well.

Along those lines, does anyone even know about the availability of this Academy? I'm a little worried this first one won't even have a full attendance just because no one knows about it. I was just lucky enough to be searching these forums for information about Sport Pilot and saw this thread, otherwise the only Academy I would be aware of is Young Eagles. Hopefully this years AirVenture spread the word.

Hey Mike,

Can you shoot me an email at ecernjar@eaa.org and we can continue this?

Thanks!

[Mike A]

Hey Mike,

Can you shoot me an email at ecernjar@eaa.org and we can continue this?

Thanks!

Sure.

[Mike A]

Had a great talk about the Academy with Eric (thanks!), I'm a bit too late for this inaugural class but I told him to put me on the list for a following Academy.

After doing an Internet search I see news of this new Academy has been out there, including the announcement at this past AirVenture so it's me that's been out of the loop and late to the show. I hope news of the Academy keeps getting spread as awareness should generate interest.

I still think if a Sport Pilots License is what your after this EAA, all encompassing experience, with its location and resources will be hard to beat. Of coarse cost and travel expense are two major factors. For me, I found a flight school close to me that offers Sport Pilot lessons in non-LSA aircraft that would save me thousands of dollars but I would still opt for the EAA experience.

It will be interesting to see how this first Academy does as far as attendance numbers and feedback from both students and instructors.

[Frank Giger]

My eye gets a little twitchy at the advertisements for quickie shake-and-bake pilot courses, but with the EAA I wouldn't have any concerns.

One knows it's going to be run professionally and realistically.

[Mike A]

One thing I meant to say as far as group learning camps or Academy's.

I'm a self taught drummer with very few formal lessons. Myself, along with a couple of friends of mine that are also self taught, feel that were pretty decent drummers. Well, my buddies attended an intense, week long, live together with other drummers, eat, breath and live drumming Boot Camp. They both came back from that learning environment totally pumped and saying not only was it one of the best experiences of their lives but their learning curve just exploded way beyond what they thought each was capable of.

That's one of the reasons I want in on the Academy 'experience'.

[Mike A]

My eye gets a little twitchy at the advertisements for quickie shake-and-bake pilot courses, but with the EAA I wouldn't have any concerns.

One knows it's going to be run professionally and realistically.

Hi Frank, I totally agree. I generally don't like the short cut, 'you'll be a Black Belt in 2 weeks' bull, but the EAA is a pretty solid outfit.

[1600vw]

Sport pilot comes in a few different flavors. Meaning you could go all out and get the complete sport pilot certificate or you could " piece mill " it. What do I mean by this. Sport pilot certificates can be given to those who only wish to fly single seat airplane. Who will never transition through Controlled " think ATC" airspace. Who only want to fly like a ultralight but fly something N Numbered. They only need a basic SP certificate. To fly anything farther or more one must get endorsements.

But if you are getting a SP certificate and plan on acting like a PP. Then yes this is not enough time to teach such things. Take it in small bites and it can be done in a couple weeks. But we have those who believe a SP certificate is a certificate to commute the aviation system we have today. I do not see it this way. Its a way for those who fly, or want to fly, on the cheap " ultralight looking things" to do it legally. They go no where but to get into the air for an hour in the morning or evening. But if you want to fly more " GA " style then you do need more training. IMHO

I said from day one, those who go after the SP certificate should take it in bites or portions. Take it in little sections and move up as you go. It keeps the Pilot "student" studying and at the airfield or school longer. Keeps CFI's busy. Its a win for all of aviation if handled this way. IMHO. To force feed one a complete SP certificate with all the bells and whistles that lets you commute the entire aviation system with all the endorsements to do so. I believe will take longer then two weeks and it should. This training should be an on going thing. Never stop learning or training. Win win for all involved in aviation. IMHO

But lets say a person wants to be a Black belt. There is no short cut or piece mill. The training is what it is. But SP is not like this. It can be taken in small bites. Unlike most things in life, say learning to drive a semi truck or flying a Jet full of people. SP can be broken down into bites. Take it one bite at a time and the training will fly by. Excuse the pun.

[Mike A]

Looks like the first Academy is in the books and plans are being made for 2017.

http://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/eaa-news-and-aviation-news/news/09-22-2016-first-eaa-sport-pilot-academy-huge-success?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiTnpBMk1qYzNNMk5oTVRsayIsIn QiOiJ5OUJJRWJaQmduMmFuVWRCeXRTUzM1NmZZQU1uUGgrcXZn TWhuWHZ4SjVjNmVTc2NHQkY5TXVnaUNmUURkSEpzc1pWSDNRQU F3VU15QUQraVdadFRyVHpzK1Q5UkRSMjdtZ0o4RmFIT3BIRT0i fQ%3D%3D

[Frank Giger]

Sport pilot comes in a few different flavors. Meaning you could go all out and get the complete sport pilot certificate or you could " piece mill " it. What do I mean by this. Sport pilot certificates can be given to those who only wish to fly single seat airplane. Who will never transition through Controlled " think ATC" airspace. Who only want to fly like a ultralight but fly something N Numbered. They only need a basic SP certificate. To fly anything farther or more one must get endorsements.

But if you are getting a SP certificate and plan on acting like a PP. Then yes this is not enough time to teach such things. Take it in small bites and it can be done in a couple weeks. But we have those who believe a SP certificate is a certificate to commute the aviation system we have today. I do not see it this way. Its a way for those who fly, or want to fly, on the cheap " ultralight looking things" to do it legally. They go no where but to get into the air for an hour in the morning or evening. But if you want to fly more " GA " style then you do need more training. IMHO

I said from day one, those who go after the SP certificate should take it in bites or portions. Take it in little sections and move up as you go. It keeps the Pilot "student" studying and at the airfield or school longer. Keeps CFI's busy. Its a win for all of aviation if handled this way. IMHO. To force feed one a complete SP certificate with all the bells and whistles that lets you commute the entire aviation system with all the endorsements to do so. I believe will take longer then two weeks and it should. This training should be an on going thing. Never stop learning or training. Win win for all involved in aviation. IMHO

But lets say a person wants to be a Black belt. There is no short cut or piece mill. The training is what it is. But SP is not like this. It can be taken in small bites. Unlike most things in life, say learning to drive a semi truck or flying a Jet full of people. SP can be broken down into bites. Take it one bite at a time and the training will fly by. Excuse the pun.

This isn't quite on the money.

All Sport Pilot Certificates allow for a passenger. All Sport Pilots are restricted to daytime VFR and to aircraft that meet LSA criteria.

The endorsements beyond that are Controlled Airspace, Seaplane, and Conventional Gear.

The "Sets" of aircraft that initially came with the Sport Pilot license are gone, as they were completely unwieldy and impossible to enforce. It made no sense to have an endorsement for a Cub but not a FlightDesign CTLS.

That said, as a Sport Pilot I have done it "in chunks," getting my SPL and then a tail wheel endorsement. I also did spin training and some light aerobatic training. This isn't too far from what a PPL holder might do.

[edit]

A PPL can be earned for single seat aircraft only as well, but I don't know anyone who has gone such a route or a CFI that is willing to instruct from the ground through all phases of training.

[1600vw]

This isn't quite on the money.

All Sport Pilot Certificates allow for a passenger. All Sport Pilots are restricted to daytime VFR and to aircraft that meet LSA criteria.

The endorsements beyond that are Controlled Airspace, Seaplane, and Conventional Gear.

The "Sets" of aircraft that initially came with the Sport Pilot license are gone, as they were completely unwieldy and impossible to enforce. It made no sense to have an endorsement for a Cub but not a FlightDesign CTLS.

That said, as a Sport Pilot I have done it "in chunks," getting my SPL and then a tail wheel endorsement. I also did spin training and some light aerobatic training. This isn't too far from what a PPL holder might do.

[edit]

A PPL can be earned for single seat aircraft only as well, but I don't know anyone who has gone such a route or a CFI that is willing to instruct from the ground through all phases of training.

My CFI made it very clear to me. You take training in your single seat you can only then fly a single seat. You will need an endorsement to fly dual seat. I told him that is fine for I do not fly dual or two seat airplanes and when I do its with the owner of said two seat airplane so I need no endorsement for I am not PIC.

So Frank not all SP certificates allow for passengers.

Tony

[Bill Greenwood]

I dont agree with Frank and Mike's doubts about a concentrated course.
Any reaistic training in most of the U S would be concentrated and better for it. How did and do military and airline pilots train. They dont do it with a lesson every couple of weeks. If a govt person is going oversees and needs to learn a language, or a sports team train for the season, or medical school, optimimun would be concentrated.
And for flying, the student pilot has to pass the same written test and flight test no matter how long or short their training is.
The week long PIC inst course for instance again proves the value of concentrated training, though I am sure it can be overdone.

[martymayes]

You guys are "piecemealing" several regs together. Not all sport pilot training can be conducted with a single seat airplane, for obvious reasons.

A single seat airplane can be used for the practical test, the applicant will have a "no passenger" limitation and he can only fly LSA aircraft that have a single seat. That limitation can not be removed by a CFI endorsement.


§ 61.45 Practical tests: Required aircraft and equipment.

(f) Light-sport aircraft with a single seat. A practical test for a sport pilot certificate may be conducted in a light-sport aircraft having a single seat provided that the -

(1) Examiner agrees to conduct the test;

(2) Examiner is in a position to observe the operation of the aircraft and evaluate the proficiency of the applicant; and

(3) Pilot certificate of an applicant successfully passing the test is issued a pilot certificate with a limitation “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-seat light-sport aircraft only.”

[martymayes]

I dont agree with Frank and Mike's doubts about a concentrated course

Me neither, only because it too general.

There is a difference between being a customer and being a military cadet or airline new hire. The customer can take his business elsewhere if he feels he is not getting a good product. A military cadet or new hire gets washed out of the program.

If one takes a concentrated course, they have to be motivated, prepare and work hard to make it work. Same is true for 2 lessons per week or 2 lessons per month.

[Mike A]

I dont agree with Frank and Mike's doubts about a concentrated course.
Any reaistic training in most of the U S would be concentrated and better for it. How did and do military and airline pilots train. They dont do it with a lesson every couple of weeks. If a govt person is going oversees and needs to learn a language, or a sports team train for the season, or medical school, optimimun would be concentrated.
And for flying, the student pilot has to pass the same written test and flight test no matter how long or short their training is.
The week long PIC inst course for instance again proves the value of concentrated training, though I am sure it can be overdone.


Hi Bill,

Not sure if you were referring to me but I agree with you.

EAA's SP Academy being a concentrated 3 week coarse is actually one of the things I'm most interested in. Three weeks of living and breathing aviation training sounds fantastic to me, especially with my prior negative flight trading experience (long drawn out training coupled with limited flying time).

[Mike A]

I dont agree with Frank and Mike's doubts about a concentrated course

Me neither, only because it too general.

There is a difference between being a customer and being a military cadet or airline new hire. The customer can take his business elsewhere if he feels he is not getting a good product. A military cadet or new hire gets washed out of the program.

If one takes a concentrated course, they have to be motivated, prepare and work hard to make it work. Same is true for 2 lessons per week or 2 lessons per month.

True.

I view 2 lessons a week as you better stay on it because your back in the seat soon, and 2 lessons a month as you better stay on it because you've got too much down time not to be. Either one is a challenge but I definitely prefer bi-weekly (at least).

[1600vw]

You guys are "piecemealing" several regs together. Not all sport pilot training can be conducted with a single seat airplane, for obvious reasons.

A single seat airplane can be used for the practical test, the applicant will have a "no passenger" limitation and he can only fly LSA aircraft that have a single seat. That limitation can not be removed by a CFI endorsement.


§ 61.45 Practical tests: Required aircraft and equipment.

(f) Light-sport aircraft with a single seat. A practical test for a sport pilot certificate may be conducted in a light-sport aircraft having a single seat provided that the -

(1) Examiner agrees to conduct the test;

(2) Examiner is in a position to observe the operation of the aircraft and evaluate the proficiency of the applicant; and

(3) Pilot certificate of an applicant successfully passing the test is issued a pilot certificate with a limitation “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-seat light-sport aircraft only.”

All you need is additional training then the CFI can sign the log saying you trained in a two seat. The limitations would be removed once this training took place in a two seat. This is how my CFI explained it to me. Like I said small bites.

[1600vw]

So I believe we established that not all SP certificates allow for a passenger.

[martymayes]

All you need is additional training then the CFI can sign the log saying you trained in a two seat. The limitations would be removed once this training took place in a two seat. This is how my CFI explained it to me. Like I said small bites.

A good rule of thumb is if a limitation is printed directly directly on the airman certificate, only an FAA inspector or DPE can remove it by issuing another certificate. Yep, training will be required, along with another practical test with an examiner, ala BIG bite.

Cut and paste from Sport Pilot Practical Test Standards: (emphasis added)

Sport pilots taking the practical test in a single-seat aircraft will have the
limitation, “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-pilot seat aircraft
only” placed on their pilot certificate, per 61.45(f)(3), limiting their
operations to a single-seat light-sport aircraft and no passenger carriage
will be authorized.
Only an examiner is authorized to remove this limitation when the sport
pilot takes a complete practical test in a two-place light-sport aircraft.
This practical test may be conducted in the same or additional category
of aircraft.
Upon successful completion of the practical test, the limitation will be
removed, and the sport pilot is authorized to act as pilot in command in
all categories of light-sport aircraft that he or she has a make and model
endorsement within a set of aircraft to operate. The limitation can also
be removed if the sport pilot completes the certification requirements in
an aircraft with a minimum of two places, for a higher certificate or
rating.

Cut and Paste from AC 61-65F: (emphasis added)

b. The limitation “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-pilot station aircraft only”
will be placed on the person’s pilot certificate, which limits a pilot to operations in a single-seat
light-sport aircraft, and no passenger carriage will be authorized. Only a DPE or an ASI is
authorized to remove this limitation. This can be accomplished when the sport pilot takes a
practical test in a two-place light-sport aircraft and conducts the additional tasks identified in the
ACS or PTS, as appropriate. This practical test may be conducted in the same or additional
category of aircraft.
c. Upon successful completion of the practical test, the limitation will be removed and the
sport pilot is authorized to act as pilot in command (PIC) in all categories of light-sport aircraft
for which he or she has an endorsement. The limitation can also be removed if the sport pilot
completes the certification requirements in an aircraft with a minimum of two places, for a
higher certificate or rating.

[1600vw]

A good rule of thumb is if a limitation is printed directly directly on the airman certificate, only an FAA inspector or DPE can remove it by issuing another certificate. Yep, training will be required, along with another practical test with an examiner, ala BIG bite.

Cut and paste from Sport Pilot Practical Test Standards: (emphasis added)

Sport pilots taking the practical test in a single-seat aircraft will have the
limitation, “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-pilot seat aircraft
only” placed on their pilot certificate, per 61.45(f)(3), limiting their
operations to a single-seat light-sport aircraft and no passenger carriage
will be authorized.
Only an examiner is authorized to remove this limitation when the sport
pilot takes a complete practical test in a two-place light-sport aircraft.
This practical test may be conducted in the same or additional category
of aircraft.
Upon successful completion of the practical test, the limitation will be
removed, and the sport pilot is authorized to act as pilot in command in
all categories of light-sport aircraft that he or she has a make and model
endorsement within a set of aircraft to operate. The limitation can also
be removed if the sport pilot completes the certification requirements in
an aircraft with a minimum of two places, for a higher certificate or
rating.

Cut and Paste from AC 61-65F: (emphasis added)

b. The limitation “No passenger carriage and flight in a single-pilot station aircraft only”
will be placed on the person’s pilot certificate, which limits a pilot to operations in a single-seat
light-sport aircraft, and no passenger carriage will be authorized. Only a DPE or an ASI is
authorized to remove this limitation. This can be accomplished when the sport pilot takes a
practical test in a two-place light-sport aircraft and conducts the additional tasks identified in the
ACS or PTS, as appropriate. This practical test may be conducted in the same or additional
category of aircraft.
c. Upon successful completion of the practical test, the limitation will be removed and the
sport pilot is authorized to act as pilot in command (PIC) in all categories of light-sport aircraft
for which he or she has an endorsement. The limitation can also be removed if the sport pilot
completes the certification requirements in an aircraft with a minimum of two places, for a
higher certificate or rating.

So now we see we can train for single place and only fly ourselves. We can then go for additional training if one desires to move up to a two seat. Then if one decides to move up even farther, one can take more training and move up to PP. If one desires. Aviation taken in bites. But I guess some view this as just one big hassle and why not force feed the training and get it over with. You then must only deal with the examiner once and not multi times.

Tony

[1600vw]

Just the other day I was speaking to a group of people "3" about aviation and training. These people never in their life thought about flying for they believed aviation was for those with deep pockets. When I explained to them that today the FAA allows one to take aviation in smaller bites then ever before, these men started to get interested in aviation, they wanted to hear more. Then I told them although you can do it this way, to find someone local who will train you this way is about hopeless. They will need to travel for this type of training. The sparkle went out of their eye's and they went on about their way. To bad, aviation is so much fun. It's the people in aviation who are killing aviation. IMHO. Blame the government, blame whatever or whomever you want. But it's being killed from within.

Tony

[martymayes]

Then I told them although you can do it this way, to find someone local who will train you this way is about hopeless. They will need to travel for this type of training. The sparkle went out of their eye's and they went on about their way. To bad, aviation is so much fun. It's the people in aviation who are killing aviation. IMHO. Blame the government, blame whatever or whomever you want. But it's being killed from within.

Not sure I understand your argument but it sounds like a local operator has an obligation to provide flight training to locals even if it means losing a pile of money in the process? Otherwise, that operator is partially at fault for killing off aviation, which by the way is showing no signs of death whatsoever?

[1600vw]

Not sure I understand your argument but it sounds like a local operator has an obligation to provide flight training to locals even if it means losing a pile of money in the process? Otherwise, that operator is partially at fault for killing off aviation, which by the way is showing no signs of death whatsoever?


Not showing any signs of death...

I went to a little gathering over the weekend at a little airstrip. We had some eats and went around looking at all the airplanes that have not moved in a decade or more. Not one, not two, not three, but many many airplanes that have so much dirt and dust on them some are hard to even tell the color. I was there for a few hrs. Take a guess at how many airplanes we had fly in or over while we had this annual lunch that is held monthly. Not one. There were about 7 of us who came for this lunch.

Then in another town about 20 mins away we have a county airport. They hold a monthly fly-in breakfast. I drove in for the last one last month. As I get out of the car I see no other cars, I walk up to a locked door. There is a man inside and he lets me in. He informs me that for the last 6 or so breakfast no one shows up. He said we are not doing this anymore for no one comes to these anymore.

But Marty you are right aviation is going strong. Just ask all those who flew into these lunches and breakfast I speak of. Oh wait you can't for no one flew into either of these events. Going strong I tell you. Yea right. I like it this way for when I fly, I rarely see another airplane and our strip borders a class C airport. Our strip is right on the magna line of this class C airport. I also spoke with ATC at this airport. The head man who runs this tower told me there are days no one flies in, no one. He welcomes anyone who would like to fly in for it will give them "ATC" something to do.

Marty please explain to me what operator I mentioned that is killing off aviation? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Tony

[martymayes]

Not showing any signs of death...

I went to a little gathering over the weekend at a little airstrip. We had some eats and went around looking at all the airplanes that have not moved in a decade or more. Not one, not two, not three, but many many airplanes that have so much dirt and dust on them some are hard to even tell the color. I was there for a few hrs. Take a guess at how many airplanes we had fly in or over while we had this annual lunch that is held monthly. Not one. There were about 7 of us who came for this lunch.

Then in another town about 20 mins away we have a county airport. They hold a monthly fly-in breakfast. I drove in for the last one last month. As I get out of the car I see no other cars, I walk up to a locked door. There is a man inside and he lets me in. He informs me that for the last 6 or so breakfast no one shows up. He said we are not doing this anymore for no one comes to these anymore.

But Marty you are right aviation is going strong. Just ask all those who flew into these lunches and breakfast I speak of. Oh wait you can't for no one flew into either of these events. Going strong I tell you. Yea right. I like it this way for when I fly, I rarely see another airplane and our strip borders a class C airport. Our strip is right on the magna line of this class C airport. I also spoke with ATC at this airport. The head man who runs this tower told me there are days no one flies in, no one. He welcomes anyone who would like to fly in for it will give them "ATC" something to do.

Tony, sorry you local airport is not 'buzzing' with activity (pun intended). Maybe you guys could could change your dining menu and more people would show up? I don't go to airport lunches and breakfast but that doesn't mean I don't go flying. Maybe only the social aspect is dying?

In contrast to your anecdotal data, I'll offer EAA's own 2016 Airventure numbers*:

Total showplanes: 2,855 (up 7 percent over 2015):

1,124 homebuilt aircraft (up 11 percent),

1,032 vintage airplanes (up 7 percent),

371 warbirds (up 6 percent),

135 ultralights and light-sport aircraft, 101 seaplanes, 31 rotorcraft, 41 aerobatic aircraft, and 20 non-categorized aircraft

Attendance: Approximately 563,000, an increase of nearly one percent over 2015

The number of exhibitors was up 10% but there were a lot of vendors peddling non-aviation junk so I'll leave that stat out. At any rate, the numbers do not appear to be vital signs of a dying activity. There's no shortage of grumpy people in the world so I would expect some of them to spill over into aviation. When I get up in the morning I can either go enjoy aviation or I can sit around, be grumpy and post on internet aviation forums how aviation is dying. You have the same option. Have a good day!

*source: https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa/about-eaa/eaa-media-room/airventure-news-releases/2016-08-02-eaa-airventure-oshkosh-2016-facts-and-figures

[martymayes]

One more data point: I got a news blurp the other day that EAA has surpassed 200,000 members. Just sayin'

[1600vw]

One more data point: I got a news blurp the other day that EAA has surpassed 200,000 members. Just sayin'

Just sayin... The FAA has more registered Drones then registered airplanes. That speaks volumes.

[martymayes]

Maybe the drone operators should hold a fly-in breakfast!

[1600vw]

Maybe the drone operators should hold a fly-in breakfast!

Why?

[Eric Cernjar]

Not showing any signs of death...

I went to a little gathering over the weekend at a little airstrip. We had some eats and went around looking at all the airplanes that have not moved in a decade or more. Not one, not two, not three, but many many airplanes that have so much dirt and dust on them some are hard to even tell the color. I was there for a few hrs. Take a guess at how many airplanes we had fly in or over while we had this annual lunch that is held monthly. Not one. There were about 7 of us who came for this lunch.

Then in another town about 20 mins away we have a county airport. They hold a monthly fly-in breakfast. I drove in for the last one last month. As I get out of the car I see no other cars, I walk up to a locked door. There is a man inside and he lets me in. He informs me that for the last 6 or so breakfast no one shows up. He said we are not doing this anymore for no one comes to these anymore.

But Marty you are right aviation is going strong. Just ask all those who flew into these lunches and breakfast I speak of. Oh wait you can't for no one flew into either of these events. Going strong I tell you. Yea right. I like it this way for when I fly, I rarely see another airplane and our strip borders a class C airport. Our strip is right on the magna line of this class C airport. I also spoke with ATC at this airport. The head man who runs this tower told me there are days no one flies in, no one. He welcomes anyone who would like to fly in for it will give them "ATC" something to do.

Marty please explain to me what operator I mentioned that is killing off aviation? I have no idea what you are talking about.

Tony

Hey Tony,

Just wondering if I can ask a few questions. What area are you referencing? Are there any vibrant chapters nearby? Do you have any interest in being a spark plug that can re-energize GA in your area? Odds are there are many EAA members in this area with varying degrees of interest/experience that could help to bring more GA activity. We'd be happy to help be a 'matchmaker' of sorts to bring people together if we can be of assistance.

Let me know what you think,
Eric

[1600vw]

Hey Tony,

Just wondering if I can ask a few questions. What area are you referencing? Are there any vibrant chapters nearby? Do you have any interest in being a spark plug that can re-energize GA in your area? Odds are there are many EAA members in this area with varying degrees of interest/experience that could help to bring more GA activity. We'd be happy to help be a 'matchmaker' of sorts to bring people together if we can be of assistance.

Let me know what you think,
Eric

Central Illinois. We do have some clubs around here. One I speak of is the one I drove to and was told they are never having another breakfast for lack of people. The other chapter has all but gone defunked. The owner built a huge dirt go kart racing track and holds races at this place now. The banks on this track are three stories high. This is one huge track. There is a club in Springfield but they don't do much. I have been trying to start my own chapter here at 3IS5. We will see what happens with this. It takes so many EAA members to start a chapter as you know. But I am trying.

What I am telling you is EAA chapters in this area are all but dried up. The members are getting up in years and not any new members joining.

Tony

[1600vw]

Here is a pic of our little 4000' strip. My wing cuts off some of the strip but this is our little strip.

5810

[Eric Cernjar]

Central Illinois. We do have some clubs around here. One I speak of is the one I drove to and was told they are never having another breakfast for lack of people. The other chapter has all but gone defunked. The owner built a huge dirt go kart racing track and holds races at this place now. The banks on this track are three stories high. This is one huge track. There is a club in Springfield but they don't do much. I have been trying to start my own chapter here at 3IS5. We will see what happens with this. It takes so many EAA members to start a chapter as you know. But I am trying.

What I am telling you is EAA chapters in this area are all but dried up. The members are getting up in years and not any new members joining.

Tony


I can tell you there are over 600 active EAA members within 50 miles of Springfield, IL and even a couple hundred that have joined EAA recently. Tony can you send your preferred contact info to my email address? You can reach me at ecernjar@eaa.org. I'll get you in touch with the chapter office and we will see what we can do for you.

Thanks,
Eric

[Eric Cernjar]

Here is a pic of our little 4000' strip. My wing cuts off some of the strip but this is our little strip.

5810

Wow that's a beautiful view!

[martymayes]

I can tell you there are over 600 active EAA members within 50 miles of Springfield, IL and even a couple hundred that have joined EAA recently.

Wow! How about that?

[Mike A]

Great write up about the Academy in the November issue of EAA's Sport Aviation magazine. Looks like it exceeded everyone's expectations and multiple 12 person Academy's are being planned for 2017, good news.