2016 AirVenture NOTAM

[TeenDoc]

Has anyone heard when will the 2016 NOTAM be available? I haven't found it in the EAA AirVenture or FAA websites.

[FlyingRon]

That's interesting. Usually it comes out around the end of April. Since it wasn't in the April 28 book, the next opportunity for publication (on the FAA side) is May 26.

[Fred Stadler]

Has anyone heard when will the 2016 NOTAM be available? I haven't found it in the EAA AirVenture or FAA websites.

The 2016 AirVenture NOTAM is awaiting a few changes by FAA, hopefully to be resolved in the next few days.

While the basic VFR arrival procedure will be much the same as in prior years, there are many changes throughout the document, so you'll certainly want to get and read the 2016 NOTAM when it is available. Among the changes are radio frequencies, the taxiway layout on the north side of Wittman Airport, runway markings, and VFR transponder use.

An EAA webinar on June 8th will highlight all of the NOTAM changes and include tips on flying into AirVenture.

Glad you're making plans for the event -- see you at Oshkosh!

-Fred Stadler
EAA NOTAM volunteer chairman

[TeenDoc]

Thanks for the update Fred. I was beginning to get nervous. By this time every year I usually have a bunch to distribute to our Cessnas 2 Oshkosh (http://www.cessnas2oshkosh.com) pilots in Juneau.

[Fred Stadler]

The 2016 AirVenture NOTAM is now online at www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa-fly-in-flying-to-oshkosh/eaa-airventure-oshkosh-notam (http://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/eaa-fly-in-flying-to-oshkosh/eaa-airventure-oshkosh-notam)

A link to order the free, printed-booklet version of the NOTAM will be available in the next few days.

[TedK]

How about the FAA change it from turn transponder to Standby at 30nm, to leave transponders On so that we can all see each other on the FAA mandated ADS-B so that the 13000 of us using see and avoid don't bump into each other. Even leaving Transponders On till RIPON would be a significant improvement in SA at that funnel.Ted

[MEdwards]

How about the FAA change it from turn transponder to Standby at 30nm, to leave transponders On so that we can all see each other on the FAA mandated ADS-B so that the 13000 of us using see and avoid don't bump into each other. Even leaving Transponders On till RIPON would be a significant improvement in SA at that funnel.TedYes, Ted, I was expecting that change this year, too. Not there, huh? I'd like to see the reason for that rule, with some quantitative analysis, not just "too many, it'd saturate their radar." My guess is it's to make IFRs more readily visible on the radar screen, since their transponders have to be left on.

[TedK]

Yes, Ted, I was expecting that change this year, too. Not there, huh? I'd like to see the reason for that rule, with some quantitative analysis, not just "too many, it'd saturate their radar." My guess is it's to make IFRs more readily visible on the radar screen, since their transponders have to be left on.I sent a note to a Big Wig Pal in DC asking him to help me get a substantive answer rather than the "brush off...it will saturate our radar" answer.At the risk of self incrimination, I kept my Xpndr on all the way to RIPON last year and saw that many had likewise "forgotten" to strangle their parrot. I think we ALL should keep our Parrots squawking all the way RIPON and see if Uncle suffers any ill effects. If so they can update their ATIS with an emphatic "Turn your transponders Off cuz it is causing problems!"Ted

[Jeff Point]

With that many airplanes in that small of a chuck of sky, I wonder if ADS-B traffic would really add to the level of safety. Given that it would cause a lot more head-down time, I think it might actually make things worse.

[TedK]

With that many airplanes in that small of a chuck of sky, I wonder if ADS-B traffic would really add to the level of safety. Given that it would cause a lot more head-down time, I think it might actually make things worse.Next to no heads down time. I keep my head on a swivel. But it did cue me to some I hadn't spotted yet, and one guy who had significant overtake. I will tell you as an AARP pilot, it helps me spot aircraft at ranges I can no longer do uncued.

[MEdwards]

Both of you guys have valid points. I use and like ADS-B. However, everybody's different, and when I started using it, until I figured out how far apart those displayed targets really were, I spent too much time worrying about them.

With the present rule those with In will be displaying only a few aircraft, those with transponders on for whatever reason. (I saw 4-5 while on the Fisk arrival last year.) I think some In users (shouldn't but) will fixate on those few targets they see on their displays and consequently spend less time scanning for other traffic.

[TedK]

Both of you guys have valid points. I use and like ADS-B. However, everybody's different, and when I started using it, until I figured out how far apart those displayed targets really were, I spent too much time worrying about them.With the present rule those with In will be displaying only a few aircraft, those with transponders on for whatever reason. (I saw 4-5 while on the Fisk arrival last year.) I think some In users (shouldn't but) will fixate on those few targets they see on their displays and consequently spend less time scanning for other traffic.They might but they shouldn't. It it simply a cuing tool. If it is on the fish finder and you haven't spotted it, you ought to give that area a real good look cuz odds are there is a airplane there.And just because nothing is on the FF, don't for a moment believe that there is no airplane there. There are lots of guys who don't squawk, and ADS-B isn't perfect.But I will tell you I am spotting significantly more traffic now that I have ADS-B. I used to fly and think, wow, I've got the sky to myself. My first flight with ADS-B showed me just how much I was missing. Don't fly with ADS-B until you are ready to buy one...you'll see just how few nearby airplane's you really saw.Ted

[Jeff Point]

They might but they shouldn't. It matters little what should be and matters much what will be. AARP pilot? Heck, I think AARP lets you in at 40 now. 😀

[rleffler]

I would agree in a single pilot situation, adsb would be too tempting to look at during the arrival process.However, there are PICs that do strictly look out the window exclusively during arrival, and let other passengers deal with avionics.I also agree that common sense isn't all that common.

[TedK]

The 2016 Airventure NOTAM was just revised and posted (https://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/airventure/flyingin/6-9-2016-notam-final.pdf), alas without any revision number. It now permits ADS-B aircraft to use their transponders when outside the OSH class D in order to get the Traffic In.

[MEdwards]

The 2016 Airventure NOTAM was just revised and posted (https://www.eaa.org/~/media/files/airventure/flyingin/6-9-2016-notam-final.pdf), alas without any revision number. It now permits ADS-B aircraft to use their transponders when outside the OSH class D in order to get the Traffic In.Ted, I think you made your mark on Oshkosh 2016. Thank you.
Mike E

[obmaha]

Yes, Ted, I was expecting that change this year, too. Not there, huh? I'd like to see the reason for that rule, with some quantitative analysis, not just "too many, it'd saturate their radar." My guess is it's to make IFRs more readily visible on the radar screen, since their transponders have to be left on.


I would recommend visiting MKE approach or green bay approach during airventure before saying controllers want your transponders off just because. As a pilot, a controller, and someone who has flown into OSH I can see both sides of the scope and just tell you that unless you have been to one of the local approach controls that is affected by OSH you can not fathom the work load that increases on controllers and what they do to go out of their way to help pilots during that week.

I could go into more detail but just know the controller side plans and trains for months each year to gear up for Oshkosh and there is almost always a method behind the madness to what we do.

Side note I have to say I love chatting with pilots at OSH and love dealing with G.A. behind the scope. By far the nicest and funniest pilots to talk to.

[MEdwards]

I'm sorry you took my comment as criticism. Nothing I said was in any way critical of the regional controllers whose workload obviously increases during Airventure. As an engineer I deal in numbers and qualitative rationale for decisions, and I don't think it's unreasonable to express an interest in how decisions such as "set transponder to Standby within 30 miles of OSH" are made. Actually, now that the NOTAM has been changed, it doesn't affect me any more because I will have ADS-B Out by the end of next week, so I will leave my transponder on.

I'd love to visit an approach control site. I did so in Albuquerque once and it was fascinating and enlightening. For example, I learned that Southwest Airlines, SWA, stands for Seldom Wants the Active. I'd be surprised if such visits are possible up there during Airventure!

Thanks.

Mike E

[obmaha]

I'm sorry you took my comment as criticism. Nothing I said was in any way critical of the regional controllers whose workload obviously increases during Airventure. As an engineer I deal in numbers and qualitative rationale for decisions, and I don't think it's unreasonable to express an interest in how decisions such as "set transponder to Standby within 30 miles of OSH" are made. Actually, now that the NOTAM has been changed, it doesn't affect me any more because I will have ADS-B Out by the end of next week, so I will leave my transponder on.

I'd love to visit an approach control site. I did so in Albuquerque once and it was fascinating and enlightening. For example, I learned that Southwest Airlines, SWA, stands for Seldom Wants the Active. I'd be surprised if such visits are possible up there during Airventure!

Thanks.

Mike E


I totally understand the frustration from an engineers standpoint. As controllers we are frustrated too. I am working on equipment and technology that was developed before I was born.

It will be interesting to see how this will effect the controllers and MKE, ZMP, and ZAU with leaving the ads-b transponders on. I think it will be great for the pilots but have a feeling it will be a negative for the controllers. Non stop false confliction alerts, alarms going off, etc but I good thing to test this year.

It might be a little hard to get in to see the an approach control around OSH but you can always drive out to FISK and say hello. If the controllers out there are not too busy they are a fun bunch to walk to. Also donuts will help ;-)

[FlyingRon]

It matters little what should be and matters much what will be. AARP pilot? Heck, I think AARP lets you in at 40 now. 
No, you can apply a few months before your 50th. My wife couldn't understand why she was getting all this stuff from AARP when she was 49. I had to admit I signed her up so I could get a discount on my spouse status (I'm a year younger than her). She was not happy.

[Byron J. Covey]

Please take the time to research the political positions of AARP before joining. You may find that you do not support their agenda. Every business that advertises AARP discounts has given me the same discount because of my age; they know that many of us are opposed to the AARP's political actions.

YMMV, so do your homework.


BJC

[Jeff Point]

Guys, the AARP thing was a joke. Let's not derail this otherwise useful thread.

[MEdwards]

It will be interesting to see how this will effect the controllers and MKE, ZMP, and ZAU with leaving the ads-b transponders on. I think it will be great for the pilots but have a feeling it will be a negative for the controllers. Non stop false confliction alerts, alarms going off, etc but I good thing to test this year.First of August I hope you'll tell us how it went.

Mike E

[obmaha]

First of August I hope you'll tell us how it went.

Mike E


I will try and get as much feedback from the controllers as I can. I know that after the show is over they usually try to decompress a little.

Also we (National Air Traffic Controller Association) are working on a tip sheet for pilots departing Oshkosh this year and what to expect from the surrounding tracons and centers as well as tips. If you have any comments or questions please let me know. We are trying to address things that will both pilots and controllers with the flow of traffic out of Oshkosh. Next year we will focus on pilots flying to Oshkosh. Hope to see all of you at the NATCA booth.

[marktrav]

Last year, while practicing formation in preparation for Bonanzas to Oshkosh, I found out that turning an ads-b transponder to standby does not silence it in foreflight, and I assume other ads-b monitoring facilities. My wingman had his transponder on standby, and I was reporting to ATC as a flight of two and they never mentioned anything. However, I could still see him on foreflight and was constantly getting the "omg you are going to die because you have an aircraft within 100 feet of your positions" messages. Once he pulled the breaker to the transponder, he finally "went away".

[TedK]

Last year, while practicing formation in preparation for Bonanzas to Oshkosh, I found out that turning an ads-b transponder to standby does not silence it in foreflight, and I assume other ads-b monitoring facilities. My wingman had his transponder on standby, and I was reporting to ATC as a flight of two and they never mentioned anything. However, I could still see him on foreflight and was constantly getting the "omg you are going to die because you have an aircraft within 100 feet of your positions" messages. Once he pulled the breaker to the transponder, he finally "went away".
Interesting. What do you have for a Transponder and ADS-B?

ted

[marktrav]

Interesting. What do you have for a Transponder and ADS-B?

ted

I'm pretty sure he has a Garmin GTX-300ES. I've got a request to him to verify.

I was using a Stratus II w/Foreflight.

(My transponder/ADS-B wouldn't be the issue here, but since you asked, I have the Avidyne 540/340 combo)

[TedK]

I'm pretty sure he has a Garmin GTX-300ES. I've got a request to him to verify.

I was using a Stratus II w/Foreflight.

(My transponder/ADS-B wouldn't be the issue here, but since you asked, I have the Avidyne 540/340 combo)
Aha! Your Stratus II ADS-B receiver listens for any ADS-B it hears.

With your transponder in Standby, your Stratus being within the hockey puck of your wingman, picked up the ADS-B In information that was transmitted in response to his Xpdr squawks.

When he put his Xpdr in Standby, the ground based ADS-B no longer tried to send him Info since he became invisible once his Xpdr went to Standby.