Aluminum Overcast tail wheel

[gmilty]

Just wondering when if ever will Aluminum Overcast's tail wheel be made retractable?
Such a beautiful aircraft just does not quite look right with the tail wheel hanging down as it flies overhead.
After all these years I would have expected this to be corrected!

Just wondering.......................

[krw920]

I've been told it is not retractable because of the seating arrangements on it. So it isn't retractable on purpose, not due to a hardware problem.

[rwanttaja]

I've been told it is not retractable because of the seating arrangements on it. So it isn't retractable on purpose, not due to a hardware problem.
That's possible, I guess. The aftmost seats are just aft of the entry door, and just (barely) forward of the tailwheel. They're atop a big box that might house the retract mechanism. Could be that the box/seat obstructs access to the mechanism that would allow manual lowering of the tailwheel if it were to jam.

Here's a picture I shot about six years ago, showing a pair of passengers sitting on what is probably the cover over the tailwheel.
http://www.wanttaja.com/aft_seat.jpg
Ron Wanttaja

[gmilty]

That's possible, I guess. The aftmost seats are just aft of the entry door, and just (barely) forward of the tailwheel. They're atop a big box that might house the retract mechanism. Could be that the box/seat obstructs access to the mechanism that would allow manual lowering of the tailwheel if it were to jam.

Here's a picture I shot about six years ago, showing a pair of passengers sitting on what is probably the cover over the tailwheel.
http://www.wanttaja.com/aft_seat.jpg
Ron Wanttaja
If there is a will, a way can be found.

[Rod Schneider]

The box has nothing to do with the retract mechanism. All of that is behind the bulkhead where the rear seats are mounted, including the hand crank mechanism. To crank the tail wheel down, you'd have to crawl around the tail wheel since the hand crank plugs in from the back.
The rear set arrangement probably does affect it since the top of the strut and the upper retract arm would move forward during retraction, and would protrude several inches forward between the back seat passengers shoulders. It would come through about where you can see the piece of plexiglass that is bolted to the bulkhead uprights. On Liberty Belle and The Movie Memphis Belle, we did not have a seat across the rear, but we did have a double seat along the left aft sidewall. Both ships had/have retractable tail wheels.

[67jwbruce]

I hope those seats are really cheap. Looks like the view wouldn't be much to brag about

[rwanttaja]

I hope those seats are really cheap. Looks like the view wouldn't be much to brag about
For the pax, there isn't that much of a view anywhere...IIRC, they don't let any of the paying customers to sit in the nose for takeoff and landing. However, once the plane is up, you are encouraged to get up and tour the entire plane. I sat by a waist gun window for takeoff and in the radio operator's seat for landing. The latter had a window about the size of an airliner (plus the panel above).

Ron Wanttaja

[gmilty]

I'm surprised that with all the fabulous restorations taking place in the warbird community that the premier flying advocacy organization (EAA) cannot get their own aircraft up to the top standards one would expect. Is there a really good structural reason that the tail wheel cannot be retracted and the EAA chooses to keep a secret? Probably someone made the decision to fix the tail wheel in the down position to save restoration time and get the aircraft in the air to start making some revenue. If you are not going to do it right, then give or sell it to someone who will do it right. Very sad.

How about an article in Sport Aviation telling about the reasons for the present configuration and the future plans for Aluminum Overcast.

[Mayhemxpc]

To clarify Ron's post, you can get in the nose during the flight -- just not on the ground. As stated, once in the air, you can get up and move around to the different positions, unlike some other bomber rides in the circuit.
At least AO is IFR capable, also unlike some other B-17s on the circuit.

The B-17 is really pretty slow to begin with. I don't think the tail-wheel being down detracts from its image or speed that much. It would be neat if the top turret mechanism was there, but then no one would be able to freely move for and aft. Everything is a trade-off. (Same condition for some other B-17s providing aerial tours.

[Frank Giger]

If you are not going to do it right, then give or sell it to someone who will do it right. Very sad.

I can see both sides of this statement playing out in less polite forums, and I sort of agree with the purist's point of view - to a point. If a group is going to restore a historical plane, why not "do it right" and restore it to full functionality.

The flip side is that it's often a case of pragmatic compromise. There's only so much money and time (time being the same as money), and one can be faced with the 90% solution that is in the air or a static display that otherwise looks perfect.

There's a lot of ground between "faking it" with a non-retractable tail wheel which almost nobody will notice and ripping out the panel and putting in dual Garmin G1000 EFIS screens.

I'd say that the non-retractable tail wheel is a pretty minor sin, and infinitely better than the other way around.

[wyoranch]

I see the point, but to me it seems trivial to the fact that AO is out there spreading the gospel on a fairly heavy schedule. Don't lose sight of the fact that the plane is 70+ years old. Perhaps maintenance required on the tail wheel can be better utilized elsewhere on the airframe. I can easily ignore non-retracting tail wheel for the fact that I am looking UP to see it.Rick

[gmilty]

I too am glad to see Aluminum Overcast flying overhead and spreading the gospel of the "greatest generation". And I understand a busy schedule of places to go and people to carry. I get that! However, when you see a number of other B-17's flying and AO is the ONLY one with a tail wheel hanging out it just looks WRONG!!! Seems to me there should be adequate time in the off season to correct this deficiency. To me this has got to be an embarrassment to the EAA and in particular to the EAA warbirders. Every year awards are given for the best restorations and we cannot even get the tail wheel to retract! Like I said, if you are not going to do it right...................

[Kyle Boatright]

I too am glad to see Aluminum Overcast flying overhead and spreading the gospel of the "greatest generation". And I understand a busy schedule of places to go and people to carry. I get that! However, when you see a number of other B-17's flying and AO is the ONLY one with a tail wheel hanging out it just looks WRONG!!! Seems to me there should be adequate time in the off season to correct this deficiency. To me this has got to be an embarrassment to the EAA and in particular to the EAA warbirders. Every year awards are given for the best restorations and we cannot even get the tail wheel to retract! Like I said, if you are not going to do it right...................

Mountain...molehill.

[FlyingRon]

There's a big difference between a award-competing airplane and a working plane.

[Bob Dingley]

Ever see pictures of Korean war Mustangs flying missions with their tailwheels pinned down? When I was a Guard pilot years ago, one of the maintenance Sgts told me that about all the L-17s had their landing gear pinned down. All three.

He was talking about Korea.

[griffin800]

EAA has lots of aircraft to maintain and a limited staff to do it. Keeping it flying is far more important to me than if the tailwheel retracts or not. If you want it changed, volunteer, there's always room for more volunteers.

Bill H.

[FlyingRon]

Ever see pictures of Korean war Mustangs flying missions with their tailwheels pinned down? When I was a Guard pilot years ago, one of the maintenance Sgts told me that about all the L-17s had their landing gear pinned down. All three.

He was talking about Korea.

I'm not even sure how you'd "pin" a L-17 gear down without drilling a hole through the actuator. It certainly is going to make a dog out of the airplane as the Vle is only 100 MPH. I'm not even sure why you'd do this. An L-17 gear is dirt simple

[Bob Dingley]

The Sgt seemed to be an honest man. My Guard unit's L-17 went to Davis Monthan years before I joined it, so my L-17 knowledge is nil. The military does things like that when logistic support dries up. 100 mph means it could cruise side-by-side with a BirdDog and still have twice the seats. That alone would makeit an asset during a war. I feel your pain about pinning gear. Had to fly some that way when I was in comm aviation and it sure sucks on a hot day when you're in a hurry. At least I had a 130kt vle.

[Chris Henry]

As for the tail wheel of the B-17 "Aluminum Overcast", it has been modified to not retract. The modification was done to and complies with FAA regulations. It is NOT because of any mechanical issues.

[FlyingRon]

I could believe they pinned the HANDLE so you couldn't operate it (that's easily doable, there's already a place there that the secondary latch fits into). There's no "pinning" of the gear itself from the factory as unlike other aircraft where you need to put pins in when the airplane is parked without the engines/hydraulics on, the L-17 gear stays down from being over center.

[krw920]

Seems to me there should be adequate time in the off season to correct this deficiency. To be a deficiency it would need to be not done deliberately, which AO's tail wheel not retracting is. It was done that way on purpose, to facilitate seating on the aircraft.