We can't comply, it's too expensive!

[saber25]

http://cdn.avweb.com/media/newspics/170/p1ad78l13c181p1pcp192v1qus15qt6.jpg


"The Air Force will not make the FAA's 2020 deadline for ADS-B equipage and will likely ask for exceptions to the rule for some of its aircraft. According to Defense News, Lt. Gen. Mike Holmes, the deputy chief of staff for strategic plans and requirements, told the House Armed Services seapower and projection forces subcommittee last week that it doesn't have the $4.4 billion it needs to equip every aircraft in its inventory. Navy, Army and other Pentagon-owned aircraft will add about $1.2 billion to that bill. Holmes blamed sequestration cuts for the funding shortfall and said that without some kind of waiver for unequipped aircraft, the 2020 deadline will result in increased expense and decreased efficiency for the Air Force as those aircraft avoid the controlled airspace that mandate the technology. "We'll be able to move the airplanes where we need to go to serve the country, but with some delay and with some higher fuel costs if we have to drive around an area to get where we need to go," Holmes said.
To make the most of the funding it does have, the Air Force is scrambling to install ADS-B in all its C-130s and C-17s because they're the most likely to need FAA ATC services. He specifically mentioned the F-22 as a platform that won't get the avionics upgrade in time. Subcommittee Chairman Randy Forbes, R-Va., told the hearing that the current budget for avionics upgrades is clearly inadequate. "I'm concerned that our military aircraft could be shut out of the airspace they need for transit and training," he said."

I'll be doing the same as the Air Force... simply avoid those areas that require ADS-B. I can't afford nor want a system that records every move I make. So much for the freedom of flight.


Cheers, Hans

[DanH]

Gotta maintain perspective...an ADS-B unit for the F-22 is probably, what, $6 million per airplane? <g>

[martymayes]

Ya think the airlines plan to comply?

[CraigCantwell]

Not so hard to install and integrate on something the size of a C-130 or larger. Now move down to the F-16/, F/A -18/22, F-35 size and with the increased complexity of fitting a new box and the systems integration and it's an different thing. Because ADS-B is an rf emitter system, the integration work is massive coupled with the necessary EMI/RFI shielding requirements. It would be no fun if the ADS box suddenly decided to squirt data and the weapons system understood it to be a salvo order:(.

[Derswede]

Hmmmm....I'd worry about someone coming up with a way to track your stealth bird with this. "Hey, where did that missile come from??" type of scenario.

Derswede

[combahee]

They would simply turn it off in civilian or hostile airspace.
To equip my aircraft it is around $6,000.00 so far I have $127.93 set aside in my budget, so I guess I'll ask for 8 more years as well.
If the Air Force gets an exemption then they won't show up on our ADS-B in so we are no better than we were yesterday. I live, work and fly in a MOA. What do they expect me to do? They are already running into our little planes already!

[eidemc]

This purely a self-inflicted wound caused by the services immense bureaucracy. Nearly all of the modern planes will already have Mode-S transponder installed. And they all will already have a GPS receiver. The only thing remaining is to update the software in the transponder to output the ADS-B messages. This not a technically difficult task, but it will be made nearly impossible by never-ending specification reviews, committee meetings, program reorganizations and counterproductive tests.

[CraigCantwell]

This not a technically difficult task, but it will be made nearly impossible by never-ending specification reviews, committee meetings, program reorganizations and counterproductive tests.


Sorry, but you haven't got a clue how current IFF systems in military aircraft work. It's not just upload some new software and go flying and hope for the best. With the integration between so many systems, there is a rigid test methodology to make sure the changes work as planned and have no EMI/RFI issues or unintended interactions with all the other systems on the aircraft.

[jethro99]

Gotta maintain perspective...an ADS-B unit for the F-22 is probably, what, $6 million per airplane? <g>

Only if Lockheed does not do the installation and integration. If Lockheed gets the modification contract it will be more like $36 million per airplane.

Remember, Lockheed bailed out of the commercial airplane market to be more into the lucrative government airplane market. They are doing real well.

[steve]

Lemme get this straight, the USAF, funded by you and I, doesn't have the money to comply with the ADS-B mandate by 2020 and will keep on flying through A,B and C airspace, basically telling the FAA to pound sand. Yet we can't fly in the current airspace if our personal planes aren't suitably equipped?
Where's my EAA rep in DC when we need him? I think everyone should get a pass on this.

[CraigCantwell]

Remember that our CongressCritters pretty much get to specify how and under what conditions our military gets to spend money. Depending on how the appropriations bills have been written, money may or may not have been included for ADS upgrade/integration when it should have been. Inter program transfers do happen, but there is lots to deal with to make it go thru. While it is being pushed as a worldwide solution, only the US and some European countries have even adopted ADS standards so far.

[wxbrieferz001]

I agree with Craig as far as the installation goes. A C-130 Hercules has plenty of room to mount an ADSB-out box. If there is a problem. All a PIC has to do is pull the circuit breaker and write up a report. The plane can be repaired overnight and go on with its mission the next day. As far as F-16, F-22, and F-35's go. Well space is a problem for them. But they will not have the large box that GA aircraft owners have to install on their planes. I know this because I am installing my ADSB- out and in box in my Piper. The manufacturers are busy now making a smaller box for military type aircraft. Which I think will have an cockpit switch for the pilot to turn the ADBS box on/off before he flys into a war zone. The military has had a long while to go over all the pro's and con's of ADSB and go to the manufacturers with their requirements. This brings up another subject. Why have the manufacture's not gone to the FAA and told them it is going to take longer to make the military the boxes built to their requirements for their fighters to use? Interesting question isn't it. I have not seen anything on any site about this issue. So here we go, again. More things to talk about with ADSB out/in technology. Anybody out there want to add their 2 cents to this website on this issue. I want to hear from others about this. Good luck to all and especially the "early-in's" that are installing their boxes before the deadline. Like I have chose to do. Later, wx.

[martymayes]

More things to talk about with ADSB out/in technology. Anybody out there want to add their 2 cents to this website on this issue. I want to hear from others about this. Good luck to all and especially the "early-in's" that are installing their boxes before the deadline. Like I have chose to do. Later, wx.

Correct me if I am wrong but hasn't the FAA suspended implementation of ADS B "IN" ??


UPS announced recently that they will disconnect/remove all ADS B "IN" equipment from their fleet by mid-summer, partly due to lack of FAA mandate.

[Gunslinger37]

The US Airlines have filed a petition with the FAA asking for a five year extension to meet the deadline. They claim that hardware will not be available to equip all the airline fleet by 2020.