ADS-B install

[dick b]

Is there a way to get in contact with someone (avionics engineer) who can lay out the install for ADS-B with known equipment?

Thanks, Dick B

[Mike M]

install what gear into what aircraft? certified or EAB?

[FunInAviation]

This guy can. He installed my ADS-B.

Anthony Arispe
info@ArispeAviation.com
http://www.arispeaviation.com/

Here's a video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mioqZwwq-4

[dick b]

If I am correct the only requirements are a transponder capable of modes A,C,S, WAAS GPS, altitude reporting device (blind encoder?,etc.) and associated antennas that are all tied together to perform ADS-B out (in is optional). Am I missing something??

Dick B

[rleffler]

If I am correct the only requirements are a transponder capable of modes A,C,S, WAAS GPS, altitude reporting device (blind encoder?,etc.) and associated antennas that are all tied together to perform ADS-B out (in is optional). Am I missing something??

Dick B

Yes, facts!

the answers are going to vary depending if you are EAB or certified and which vendor's solution you choose.

the post above referenced Navworx. I have one in my RV, so I can share my experiences.

yes, a transponder is required. If you have a newer model, you may be able to connect to a serial port to get the need feed and remote control capabilities hooked. Navworx also sells a transmontane device that attaches to the transponder antenna cable for older transponders.

yes, an altitude reporting device reporting pressure altitude is required. In my case, that is being supplied off a serial port on the EFIS. You could also use a dedicated encoder, but be careful about the output format. Not all encoders are compatible with Navworx.

Navworx has an internal GPS that is 2020 compliant, so another GPS isn't required.

it requires two antennas. One for the GPS and one for the uat out. These are common antennas, so they can be purchased just about anywhere. My recommendation if you are EAB is delta pop aviation. Antenna specs are in the Navworx manual.

there are plenty of other options, but with out knowing your aircraft type and avionics, we would all just be guessing.

[dusterpilot]

I stumbled across a great slide presentation with a very complete decision tree included prepared by EAA Chapter 9. You can download here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiCsMur3vTKAhVLGB4KHffwD-4QFggdMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eaa9.org%2FADS-B_presentation.pdf&usg=AFQjCNFd0oEnx2p1sCV0TXc5vAyMdPcywg&sig2=xug1VXTXjh500UrAjnY_HA)or here (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiCsMur3vTKAhVLGB4KHffwD-4QFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelflightmidatlantic.org%2F wp-content%2Fuploads%2FADS-B_presentation.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGAgWCdPJAUAVJUkI7CaJyD72fcFg&sig2=sKICKJNFSdsANosMt0iWEA).
(https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiCsMur3vTKAhVLGB4KHffwD-4QFggkMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.angelflightmidatlantic.org%2F wp-content%2Fuploads%2FADS-B_presentation.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGAgWCdPJAUAVJUkI7CaJyD72fcFg&sig2=sKICKJNFSdsANosMt0iWEA)

[MEdwards]

I'm looking at a Navworx ADS-B Out. For those of you who have them:

Were there any problems obtaining one? I have heard of some supply problems in the recent past, a few months ago.
Is the transponder monitor, TRANSMONSPE, consistent and reliable? Or is a direct connection to encoder and transponder recommended?

Thank you.

[rleffler]

I'm looking at a Navworx ADS-B Out. For those of you who have them:

Were there any problems obtaining one? I have heard of some supply problems in the recent past, a few months ago.
Is the transponder monitor, TRANSMONSPE, consistent and reliable? Or is a direct connection to encoder and transponder recommended?

Thank you.


There are two versions. One for certified aircraft and one for EABs. The experimental unit is less expensive. The experimental unit had some startup issues. They are shipping now, but I don't know what the back log may be at the time.

ive not heard any complaints about the Transmonspe, but I only know one person that has it installed. Mine is direct wired and works just fine. I suspect that being direct wired is better, but not sure it matters. It may be just a flip of a coin.

[dick b]

Another part to this question - what exactly is a Avionics Data Link Processor that would be wired into the transponder along with the GPS receiver and altimeter?? This is all related to a E-AB aircraft.

Dick B

[rleffler]

Another part to this question - what exactly is a Avionics Data Link Processor that would be wired into the transponder along with the GPS receiver and altimeter?? This is all related to a E-AB aircraft.

Dick B

It really depends on the equipment and/or adsb solution you've selected. My recommendation is to give the vendor or your friendly neighborhood avionics dealer a call.

the transponder passes the squawk code, encoder passes pressure altitude, and GPS passes Lat/long and I believe GPS alt. Depending on the equipment connectivity is rs232. Some units support arinc for GPS. Navworx also sells a transmode unit for older transponders that just connects to the transponder's antenna cable.

since you are EAB, I would recommend the Navworx ads600-exp. there are other comparable solutions depending on what other avionics is already installed.

[tmcquinn]

Wow, what a great thread. I may finally know what I want. But please don't hold back any comments or criticisms.

I have a Piper Archer. I have no GPS or fancy displays, just a classic panel. My transponder is an old Garmin GTX 320 that is working just fine. I have been holding off buying a Stratus portable unit because I would like to spend my money on a more permanent solution.

I am leaning heavily towards the Navworx ADS600-B. My AMT says he is willing to take a shot at an install if he doesn't have to hack around with the existing radios. With the TransMonSPE we should be able to use my existing transponder and encoder by merely clamping the device around the transponder antenna cable. The WIFI module should allow me to display traffic and weather on a tablet. We need to bolt the main unit in, get power to it, install a light to indicate that the UAT is working, install the GPS antenna, install the UAT antenna, and configure it with a $10 PC cable. The crimping equipment called for in the installation manual will only add about $300. I guess my AMT will have to update the weight and balance data (about a pound and a half) and sign it off. The only challenge I see so far is getting a "transponder test set" that can interrogate the aircraft's transponder. And if there is a way to beg, borrow, or steal one I am going to try it.

What do you folks think? Have I laid out a plausible path to getting ADS-B? I don't know if we're at the tipping point yet or not but the only avionics shops that have even bothered to give me a price were at or above 8 grand. This could be less than half that if I dig in and get a little dirty. As far as worrying about the hardware being orphaned some day, well, buying the Garmin transponder sure didn't save me from that fate.

[rleffler]

Tmcquinn,

i have the Ads-600b in my RV-10 for several years now. I was an early adopter. It's a great product.

you don't need $300 worth of crimping tools to install it. You should be able to get everything you need for well under $100. Yes, there are crimping tools that cost that much, but you don't need them for a one time install. I would recommend taking a look at the tools offered by Stein Brunch at steinair.com. It will be hard to find better deals elsewhere.

you don't need any transponder test gear for the install. The control panel software will display what is being received from your transponder. It will display transponder, pressure altitude, and GPS coordinates. If all three aren't present, it won't enable the unit.

bob

[tmcquinn]

Thank you very much, rleffler. I am in very new territory here and I was reading the explicit procedures from the installation manual.

If I can pull this off it will be a major cost saving over any price I've gotten to date. I realize this isn't the type of job that has the avionics shops salivating over my business but most of them won't even return a call or email. I can't imagine what it's going to be like as we get nearer to 2020. I suppose a true optimist would hope for a $500 unit and an FAA blessing for a self install...

[MEdwards]

What do you folks think? Have I laid out a plausible path to getting ADS-B?Absolutely! It's precisely the path I followed just last week in my certified aircraft. The mechanical installation was straightforward, but of course it took four times as long as it should have, because it's an airplane. The electrical installation is simple. I agree you don't need $300 for crimp tools. I also vote for Steinair; they had almost everything I needed, and quick service. Don't forget the little DSub pin insert/remove tool, for standard pins, not high density ones. I bought the light and the circuit breaker from Spruce. Note that coax, coax connectors, and DSub connectors and pins all come with the unit. I recommend practicing installing a couple coax connectors and some DSub pins at home before you start. It's really easy. Steinair has some short instructional videos online that were useful.

For testing, all you need to do are the basic tests in the install manual and then flight test it. Send the email to the FAA for a report, and if there's no red, you're done. If that last doesn't ring a bell, just ask here for more info. I have not been able to do that last step because the airplane is in for annual at the same time, so I won't be able to flight test it for a couple weeks yet. Good luck!

Mike E

[tmcquinn]

For testing, all you need to do are the basic tests in the install manual and then flight test it. Send the email to the FAA for a report, and if there's no red, you're done. If that last doesn't ring a bell, just ask here for more info. I have not been able to do that last step because the airplane is in for annual at the same time, so I won't be able to flight test it for a couple weeks yet. Good luck!

Mike E

Yes, please explain. I thought I had read more than any sane person would try to and I never saw anything about an FAA email!

[rleffler]

Yes, please explain. I thought I had read more than any sane person would try to and I never saw anything about an FAA email!

Check out this thread on Van's Air Force:

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=113529&highlight=Adsb

Jim and his team at the FAA have done a tremendous job of ensuring experimental adsb configurations work as advertised. They cleared up much confusion during the early adopter period.

[MEdwards]

Yes, please explain. I thought I had read more than any sane person would try to and I never saw anything about an FAA email!Looks like Bob's pretty much got it covered with the link to Van's. So far as the testing is concerned, I don't think there should be any difference between the box for experimentals (that Van's is addressing) and the one you and I are using for certificated aircraft.

The report you get back is detailed and has slew of acronyms, but I think an explanation comes with it, and I've heard of the FAA guy who gets your email request helping to resolve issues if there are any. With the Navworx system, I think issues are less likely because the GPS is internal and integral to the ADS-B transceiver. I think most problems come from the GPS-to-ADS-B interface.

Also, the head of Navworx, Bill Moffitt, is responsive to questions. His writing is terse, but he's always answered my question satisfactorily.

Mike E

[tmcquinn]

I thank you all. I placed an order today. I'll post later on how it goes.

I know that not everyone shares my opinion on this, but I'll take terse over not even replying every day!

[tmcquinn]

Since I'd like to be ready when we start the install, I'm off to track down any information about using the Navworx with a tablet and WIFI. I am very cost sensitive right now so I'm hoping to use one of the Android tablets I already own. But I'm open to any ideas you folks might have.

[MEdwards]

WingX Pro 7 works with the Navworx. I run it on an iPad with my currrent ADS-B receiver and will do the same thing with the Navworx. There is an Android version of WingX Pro 7, but I think it's not yet as full featured as the one for iPad.

Mike E

[tmcquinn]

I never thought I'd be saying this but I bought an iPad mini. It can be returned for 2 weeks. I was thinking I would try some apps on both platforms and decide what to do.

Reading the link above to the Van's site where the FAA guy was sending the official pass/fail reports was a bit scary. But it seems like most of the problems were with interfacing to panel GPS and wired connections to transponders. I shouldn't have any of those issues. The only glitch I read that seemed like it could apply to me was someone who didn't have their WIFI module plugged in all the way. But I couldn't help but wonder how many hours of on the clock learning the early adopters of ADS-B paid for at their avionics shops.

I did spend some time looking for crimpers at steinair.com but I didn't see anything that I was sure was correct, except for the DSub pin insert/remove tool. I'm thinking I should call them today and see if they can guide me.

[MEdwards]

I think that's a great idea, to try options during a trial period. I'm happy with WingX, but what other apps have you found that work with the Navworx?

I suspect Steinair will be helpful on the phone. They're small enough they should actually answer their phone! Their ratcheting crimper frame SAT-001 plus BNC die SAT-031 worked for me. You'll need two of the sizes on the BNC die (which also works for TNC), size instructions come with the coax connectors. The 4-way indent crimper SAT-004 is a piece o' cake for DSub pins (actually they're sockets in this application, but they crimp the same). Experiment a bit at home on how far back to strip off the insulation and how firmly to squeeze the tool, and you'll quickly go into production and finish off all the pins in about 20 minutes. That'll be a joy after you just spent two hours snaking a cable thorough the cabin sidewall!

[tmcquinn]

Just from their web site - "WingX, iFly, FlyQ and eKneeboard are current approved iPad applications."

Thanks for those part numbers. I went flying with my son, the day got away from me, and I never got around to making that call.

I will definitely practice at home. Without making you read the story of my life, I have worked with wire quite a bit, though not for a few decades.

[rleffler]

I never thought I'd be saying this but I bought an iPad mini. It can be returned for 2 weeks. I was thinking I would try some apps on both platforms and decide what to do.

But I couldn't help but wonder how many hours of on the clock learning the early adopters of ADS-B paid for at their avionics shops.




I have an iPad mini and wingx. I got the mini because the normal iPads are too large to fit in my lap with the stick in my RV-10. I have to admit, I've only used it a couple times in flight. It's a terciary device in the cockpit. I have just about everything I need to see in flight on my AFS EFIS.

The he answer to your question about the avionics shops, is none. Homebuilders tend to be self sufficient and don't use avionics shops. I've purchased equipment from them, but seldom do I call them for support questions. When I have questions about Navworx. I called and talked with Bill directly. He support model for EAB aircraft is different than SPAM cans. I know that's being stereotypical and that there is always exceptions.

Stein has a couple training videos on his website and on YouTube. They might help you understand what you need a bit better.

[tmcquinn]

Well, I am past the stage where chickening out is an option...

5615

5616

[tmcquinn]

There are very few things that I couldn't do better and faster from the second time on but here's where we are. This is two full days in a hot hangar, one A&P and one civilian (me). The antennas (sp?) are installed. The UAT fail light and new circuit breaker are wired in. The port for the PC interface is installed. The WIFI adapter is installed. The ADS-B is bolted down under the rear seat. All connectors are crimped and tested, though I'm not 100% about the diode test for the GPS antenna. All that's left is getting a USB cable extension and hooking up the inductive tap to the transponder cable, doing the setup on a PC, testing, putting the plane back together, updating the weight and balance, and emailing the FAA for my report. At least that's all I can think of after spending most of the day in the baggage compartment...

[tmcquinn]

The paperwork is complete. WingX is loaded onto an iPad Mini and an Android PC, both of which are now yoke mounted. I just received my FAA Compliance Report and got 100% compliance, no issues. My A&P had to be talked into trying this but it turned out to not be so difficult. He charged me 22 hours but I think he may have subtracted out some of the time we spent scratching our heads and mumbling...

[MEdwards]

How long did it take to get the compliance report?

[tmcquinn]

Requested on 1:46 pm Thursday.

Received on 6:22 am Friday.

[rleffler]

The paperwork is complete. WingX is loaded onto an iPad Mini and an Android PC, both of which are now yoke mounted. I just received my FAA Compliance Report and got 100% compliance, no issues. My A&P had to be talked into trying this but it turned out to not be so difficult. He charged me 22 hours but I think he may have subtracted out some of the time we spent scratching our heads and mumbling...

Ouch! 22 hours for a job that shouldn't have taken more than a couple hours. Nothing like paying for his education. I'm enjoying my EAB more every day due to A&Ps billing excessive hours.

im glad that everything is working for you! You are going to see more aircraft than you ever knew that were around you. The weather radar and meters are nice too!

[rleffler]

How long did it take to get the compliance report?


They are are pretty consistent with responding. They usually process requests the morning of the first business day after receiving the email request. This is one team of FAA'ers that have done a fantastic job of assisting and educating aircraft owners.

[tmcquinn]

Sorry, but I was there the whole time and I don't see how a person could do a quality job pulling the wires in a couple of hours, let alone drilling all those holes in the plane, new circuit breaker, warning light, etc.

Now I would bet he could do another one in a lot less time.

[rleffler]

Sorry, but I was there the whole time and I don't see how a person could do a quality job pulling the wires in a couple of hours, let alone drilling all those holes in the plane, new circuit breaker, warning light, etc.

Now I would bet he could do another one in a lot less time.

look me up in HBC next week and I'll show you several aircraft that installed the Navworx unit in a few hours, and none of them used the transmon.