Rule that covers who can perform maintenance on an expiremental

[pchuckie]

I've always been under the belief anyone could work on their own expiremental aircraft, but the yearly condition inspection is needed to be performed by either an A+P or the original builder who also applied for and got his repairmans certificate.

Yesterday I went and oversaw a prebuy on an aircraft I'm considering purchasing, it went well. During the inspection both the A+P and the builder mentioned to me that I would need to have an A+P or the builder address the issues. I've read some pages that go both ways. But so far other tan 43.1b is the only thing I've been able to find.

[rwanttaja]

I've always been under the belief anyone could work on their own expiremental aircraft, but the yearly condition inspection is needed to be performed by either an A+P or the original builder who also applied for and got his repairmans certificate.

Yesterday I went and oversaw a prebuy on an aircraft I'm considering purchasing, it went well. During the inspection both the A+P and the builder mentioned to me that I would need to have an A+P or the builder address the issues. I've read some pages that go both ways. But so far other tan 43.1b is the only thing I've been able to find.
Yes, as long as it's an Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft or Experimental Light Sport Aircraft, anyone can do maintenance. Only the condition inspection must be performed by an A&P or the owner of the Repairman Certificate.

The only exception to this would be if the aircraft's Operating Limitations said an A&P was required for maintenance...and I've never heard of a set of Operating Limitations where that were the case.

Here's an article from an EAA Chaptergram from about 20 years ago that addresses this:

http://www.wanttaja.com/avlinks/maint.htm

Notice that the author is now head of the FAA Small Aircraft Certification directorate.

Getting advice on issues like this over the Internet is always dodgy. Call EAA Headquarters (800-564-6322) and ask to speak to Charlie Becker, the EAA Homebuilt Community Manager. He should confirm the above.

Ron Wanttaja

[pchuckie]

Dodgy, I hear that. That's why I asked specifically if anyone knew the exact regarding that covers it.
Thanks for the link

[Bob H]

You have to use common sense in working on a plane aside from legal allowances. If you don't have fundamental experience with aircraft structures or engines or avionics, either take classes or get someone with those skills to teach you before working on your own. Like Dirty Harry said, "know your limitations".

[pchuckie]

I don't know everything, no one does. I've been spinning wrenches my whole adult life. Started wrenching as a F15 weapons systems mechanic. Then an emergency generator technician, and now a plumber. If there's one thing I've learned from doing field service work, never be afraid to say I don't know and get the folks involved that do know.

I'm just trying to figure out, and not by hearsay what work is legal for me to perform and what is not. Not being the builder or an A+P removes the annual condition inspectin from the table.

[rwanttaja]

I'm just trying to figure out, and not by hearsay what work is legal for me to perform and what is not. Not being the builder or an A+P removes the annual condition inspectin from the table.
Well, it's kinda the other way around. No regulation authorizes you to work on the aircraft. But no regulation prohibits you, either. As you mentioned, Part 43 does not apply to Experimental aircraft...and no other regulation could apply.

Your Operating Limitations set, well, the limitations on the aircraft. If THEY don't say one needs an A&P to do light or heavy maintenance...then you don't need one.

If someone claims differently, ask them to point out the regulation that requires an A&P.

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

I don't know everything, no one does. I've been spinning wrenches my whole adult life. Started wrenching as a F15 weapons systems mechanic. Then an emergency generator technician, and now a plumber. If there's one thing I've learned from doing field service work, never be afraid to say I don't know and get the folks involved that do know.

I'm just trying to figure out, and not by hearsay what work is legal for me to perform and what is not. Not being the builder or an A+P removes the annual condition inspectin from the table.

Its not an Annual Condition Inspection. Its a Condition Inspection done annually. Big difference. If you put the word " Annual " if front of the word " Condition " most A&P's will hear the word Annual and not Condition. An Annual inspection as we all know plays by a different set of rules then a Condition inspection.

[FlyingRon]

Its not an Annual Condition Inspection. Its a Condition Inspection done annually. Big difference. If you put the word " Annual " if front of the word " Condition " most A&P's will hear the word Annual and not Condition. An Annual inspection as we all know plays by a different set of rules then a Condition inspection.

If you have a mechanic with such cognitive difficulties, you probably don't want to have him near your aircraft.

Actually if you want to quibble. Neither the condition inspection for the experimental nor the "annual" inspection for other aircraft are necessarily done annually. They just have to have been done within the preceding 12 calendar months of any flight.

[deweyclawson]

My operating limitations state that any major modification voids the airworthiness cert. EAA says I would need to tell the FAA about a major mod before doing it and get their permission to continue ops or they could require a complete flt test program before reissuing the a/w cert, or whatever the regulatory gods might require. Nothing is said about who can do the mod. I think I will have my 2yr old grand son do it.

[Dana]

My operating limitations state that any major modification voids the airworthiness cert. EAA says I would need to tell the FAA about a major mod before doing it and get their permission to continue ops or they could require a complete flt test program before reissuing the a/w cert, or whatever the regulatory gods might require. Nothing is said about who can do the mod. I think I will have my 2yr old grand son do it.

That's the old op limits wording; mine is the same. The new version of the op limits usually says that the FAA simply has to be "notified" of any major change and the plane goes back into phase 1 for some time, usually 5 hours or so. If you contact the FSDO you can get them to reissue you op limits with the newer wording.

[Frank Giger]

During the inspection both the A+P and the builder mentioned to me that I would need to have an A+P or the builder address the issues.

Well, there's a bit of truth in that - that A&P in particular may not hand out his green stamp of approval on a Condition Inspection for repairs not completed by another A&P or the guy with the repairman's certificate.

A&P's are like barbers and plumbers.....everybody's always looking for a good one they can trust.

LOL, I was talking to a young A&P a few weeks ago that told me welding isn't allowed on fuselages, which is why no aircraft have them made that way. Apparently they didn't cover things like the Aeronica series of aircraft in school....and he started chuckling when he realized how wrong his instructor was.

[cub builder]

As a practical matter, I have made major modifications to my E-AB aircraft numerous times. I just call FSDO when I'm done and ask to speak to an airworthiness inspector. They will ask me to write up the modifications and email them a copy, then will assign me some phase 1 test time, usually 5 hours. I have one aircraft with the old operating limitations, and one with the newer operating limitations. Every time I talk to them, they offer to swap out the old operating limitations for the new ones, but it takes them a 2 week turn around, during which time my plane would be grounded. I'll do it one of these days when I plan to ground my plane for a while.

-Cub Builder

[FlyingRon]

Well, there's a bit of truth in that - that A&P in particular may not hand out his green stamp of approval on a Condition Inspection for repairs not completed by another A&P or the guy with the repairman's certificate.

You've lost me. Even in the case of an annual on a certificated plane there's no requirement that the inspecting mechanic has any control over the repair of discrepancies. It's even conceivable with some things like "you need new tires" or "you've got a bulb out" that the owner-pilot could return the aircraft to service afterward.

[L16 Pilot]

With older aircraft (Aeroncas, Cubs, Taylorcraft and the like) it does get down to finding someone who has experience with tube and fabric. I'm quite sure it's not taught to any extent in A & P any longer.

[Frank Giger]

Ron, my point is that there is no requirement for an A&P to perform any type of inspection at all, and a particular fellow may say he won't sign off on a Condition Inspection if either an A&P or the Repairman has done the work.

He won't be right by the regs, but some folks are fussy.

[Mike M]

... Every time I talk to them, they offer to swap out the old operating limitations for the new ones, but it takes them a 2 week turn around, during which time my plane would be grounded.... -Cub Builder

The Arizona FSDO in Scottsdale was able to instruct me in what paperwork to carry in so new EAB ops limits could be issued and carried out same day. I followed instructions, they fulfilled promise. Took less than 1/2 hour in their office and that included free coffee. But it was 14 years ago, your mileage may vary.