Wittman Airport without AirVenture

[Mike A]

Just curious.

What are all the facilities at Wittman Airport used for when AirVenture is not happening? Do all the huge warehouses, etc, remain empty? Is Camp Scholler used for anything else during the year? What's Pioneer Airport used for?

[rwanttaja]

Just curious.

What are all the facilities at Wittman Airport used for when AirVenture is not happening? Do all the huge warehouses, etc, remain empty? Is Camp Scholler used for anything else during the year? What's Pioneer Airport used for?
The whole airport is completely deserted, and EAA staffers bet on tumbleweed races. :-)

Actually, I show up there four times a year (non-show periods). Scholler's been empty each time I come, but Pioneer Airport is actually part of the EAA museum and I think they fly rides out of there. In any case, it remains an active runway (e.g., can't walk across). And, as you'll note in SPORT AVIATION, they have events there through the year.

I suspect some of the facilities support other (smaller) conventions. The DOT course that I'm an instructor on meets in the PHP center.

The warehouses, etc. I have no idea. But with the severe Midwest winters, there are probably companies that would love to lease facilities to put major equipment out of the weather.

Ron Wanttaja

[Mike A]

:D
"The whole airport is completely deserted, and EAA staffers bet on tumbleweed races"

Thanks Ron.

[CarlOrton]

They rent-out the exhibit hangars A-D for periodic shows like farm equipment / stock show type equipment as well as for midwest exhibition type events.

I've also been there in late January and saw Oshkosh military vehicles lined up on Celebration Way (the main drag leading to Aeroshell Square / Philllips Plaza / Boeing Plaza.

[Zack Baughman]

Pioneer Airport is indeed a part of the museum and has seven display hangars open from May to October. Young Eagles rides and biplane and/or Bell 47 rides are available depending on the weather. More info here: https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-museum/museum-exhibits/pioneer-airport

A lot of the smaller buildings (Federal Pavilion, Homebuilders Hangar, etc) are used for convention and museum aircraft collection storage. There are a few annual events that use the EAA grounds outside of AirVenture, the Wisconsin Public Service Farm Show being the largest. Camp Scholler has been used for a SDA Pathfinders camporee that takes place every 4-5 years. In the past few years it has been used for a Tough Mudder obstacle course run, and in September there will be a ColorVibe 5K in Camp Scholler. EAA is VERY selective on what types of events can take place on the AirVenture convention grounds.

[Mike A]

Pioneer Airport is indeed a part of the museum and has seven display hangars open from May to October. Young Eagles rides and biplane and/or Bell 47 rides are available depending on the weather. More info here: https://www.eaa.org/en/eaa-museum/museum-exhibits/pioneer-airport

A lot of the smaller buildings (Federal Pavilion, Homebuilders Hangar, etc) are used for convention and museum aircraft collection storage. There are a few annual events that use the EAA grounds outside of AirVenture, the Wisconsin Public Service Farm Show being the largest. Camp Scholler has been used for a SDA Pathfinders camporee that takes place every 4-5 years. In the past few years it has been used for a Tough Mudder obstacle course run, and in September there will be a ColorVibe 5K in Camp Scholler. EAA is VERY selective on what types of events can take place on the AirVenture convention grounds.

Thanks Zack.

[TedK]

EAA is VERY selective on what types of events can take place on the AirVenture convention grounds.

As they should be, we wouldn't want groundlings ruining the grounds. ;)

[Mayhemxpc]

There are also activities in the Civil Air Patrol area, most notably several iterations of their National Flight Academy. In the past EAA has been very good about allowing the dozen or so CAP aircraft temporary parking in one of the hangars during tornado watches and when severe TRW are forecast. (For those of you not from the midwest, a tornado watch there does not mean that the conditions that could form a tornado are present. It means its time to go out and watch for the tornado, cuz its gonna happen. Tornado warnings are like indirect fire warnings in combat zones. By the time you hear it…well at least you are around to hear it.)

[FlyingRon]

I think part of the impetus for installing heat and flush toilets in the exhibit buildings was to make them useful for events other than the EAA.

[mazdaP5]

Thanks for the insight, I've always wondered.

[Frank Giger]

I always thought they held secret go-cart races in those buildings, exclusive to the EAA staff.

Then again, maybe they do...

[Fastcapy]

I always thought they held secret go-cart races in those buildings, exclusive to the EAA staff.

Then again, maybe they do...

I have been out of law enforcement for awhile, but the local police depts sometimes did training there including vehicle operations through the areas with buildings to simulate operations in urban areas

[1600vw]

Do they rent any of the hangars out to the locals without asking an arm and leg for hangar space? I thought about moving to Oshkosh or the area anyway, just to be closer to it all. I still might do this someday. Right now I am happy right here. But who knows what tomorrow will bring.

When I was at Oshkosh and was walking through those building I kept thinking...what a great spot to run some RC on-road cars. I would have a blast in those big empty hangars with some RC cars....lol

Tony

[Mike A]

Do they rent any of the hangars out to the locals without asking an arm and leg for hangar space? I thought about moving to Oshkosh or the area anyway, just to be closer to it all. I still might do this someday. Right now I am happy right here. But who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Tony

Hey Tony, funny you should post this question.

I was just thinking of making a new post about moving to Oshkosh. My wife and I have been contemplating moving to Osh for the past several years now and spent part of the week at this years AirVenture in a rental car looking at property's.

Mike

[wyoranch]

Hey Tony, funny you should post this question.

I was just thinking of making a new post about moving to Oshkosh. My wife and I have been contemplating moving to Osh for the past several years now and spent part of the week at this years AirVenture in a rental car looking at property's.

Mike


Even funnier is that my wife has suggested the EXACT same thing. We are looking to relocate and she suggested the OSH area.
Rick

[Mike A]

Even funnier is that my wife has suggested the EXACT same thing. We are looking to relocate and she suggested the OSH area.
Rick

Nice, sounds like we have a couple keepers :)

I wonder how many other guys are thinking about relocating to Osh? (especially after being at AirVenture :) )

Maybe a new thread is warranted.

[gbrasch]

I don't think Oshkosh, as much as I love going there every year, is the Disneyland we may think. An old friend of mine is born and raised there. He became a local cop and after a few years of seeing that side of things, admittedly biased, he moved his wife and 2 daughters out. Plan carefully.

[1600vw]

I don't think Oshkosh, as much as I love going there every year, is the Disneyland we may think. An old friend of mine is born and raised there. He became a local cop and after a few years of seeing that side of things, admittedly biased, he moved his wife and 2 daughters out. Plan carefully.


As with anything it is what you make of it. If one is retired and not worried about employment, I bet any place with aviation or anything they like is a good place to live. What I like about the area is all the active EAA clubs. When I say active I do mean they do other things beside serve food to people and talk aviation. These clubs get out and do things aviation related.

It would be cool for me in this time of my life to live in an area such as this. When things slow down aviation related I would ramp up my flying and enjoy the time even more. With other like minded folks. These folks are miles apart where I live today. Aviation is a loaner sport in my neck of the woods One does it alone. How I believe 90% are doing this thing we call aviation today, alone.

Tony

[Mike A]

I don't think Oshkosh, as much as I love going there every year, is the Disneyland we may think. An old friend of mine is born and raised there. He became a local cop and after a few years of seeing that side of things, admittedly biased, he moved his wife and 2 daughters out. Plan carefully.

Your friend is exactly the kind of guy I'd like to speak to. Before buying my home I spent several days (and nights) cruising the neighborhood to get a feel for it. I saw a Cop parked near by and introduced myself as a Firefighter (I'm retired now) looking to live in the area. He let me know where to look and where to avoid.

I looked up the local crime stats for Osh/WI. Not crime free but still pretty tame compared to many cities and states.

[FlyingRon]

I bought my plane in Watertown, about 50 miles due south of Oshkosh, in February. You couldn't get me to live there. Now I know why there's a bar on every corner.

[mazdaP5]

Do they rent any of the hangars out to the locals without asking an arm and leg for hangar space? I thought about moving to Oshkosh or the area anyway, just to be closer to it all. I still might do this someday. Right now I am happy right here. But who knows what tomorrow will bring.

When I was at Oshkosh and was walking through those building I kept thinking...what a great spot to run some RC on-road cars. I would have a blast in those big empty hangars with some RC cars....lol

Tony

The Hobbytown USA in Oshkosh has an indoor RC course.

[rwanttaja]

Well, here's the show grounds almost two weeks after the last day. Note they're still taking down the temporary structures.

5010

Ron Wanttaja

[Frank Giger]

Move to Wisconsin?

Um, the place is prone to freakish weather. It gets so cold that rain freezes in mid air and comes down in this white dust like stuff in amounts to where it piles up. And then stays that way. For several months of every single year.

Weird.

[1600vw]

Something like this?

5011

[Fastcapy]

I have lived in Oshkosh or within 10 miles of Oshkosh my entire life. I was a cop in the neighboring town, was a deputy for Winnebago County and have run a small service business here for 15 years now.

As for hangar space, it is hit or miss for T-hangars, sometimes the county has 5 that are vacant then a month later there is a list 6 people deep needing hangar space. Anything bigger is quite tough to find. I know there was a hangar for rent that is a nice hangar, like maybe 50'X50" and heated but last I heard they wanted like $800/month and you had to be out of there the week of Airventure and a few days prior and after... If looking at T-Hangars note that some on the east side have major water problems. They are cheaper rent then the "north t's" (where I am) but I didn't want to deal with the water issues. The airport admin staff are friendly and good people who want to improve the airport and add hangars. However the county board has no interest in investing in the airport it seems. Which is odd given the nature of it being Oshkosh...

Now, on to living here.

I will say this. The last couple of years this area has really gone downhill fast. We have a lot of people moving up here from Milwaukee and Chicago and with it they are bringing the big city problems. Drugs, robberies, all that fun stuff. Now, is it as bad as Milwaukee, no not even close. However, it has been kind of a culture shock to those who have lived here for a long time. Sad thing is that it keeps getting worse.

It is very much blue collar here. A lot of people are employed at factories in the city. The downside is that when one of these places goes into lay-off mode, it really saturates the job market with these workers looking for work. Oshkosh isn't quite big enough to absorb them all into other factories.

The winters suck. Days with wind chills in the -40f range, storms dumping 12+ inches of snow, etc. The cold is hard on everything mechanical, as well as people and animals. The road salt is very hard on vehicles as well. And we use a lot up here, like 500,000 tons on average for the state. The one thing about winter here is sturgeon spearing! It is amazing to watch guys haul in these huge beast of a fish!

Oshkosh has really fallen behind the Appleton/Neenah area in terms of money and jobs. Appleton is experiencing the same influx of bad people as Oshkosh. Neenah always has seemed to be the place where the people with money live.

So, what about the good.

We have a lot of events around here, other than Airventure. Music festivals, farm shows, marathons, all kinds of stuff.

Centrally located, it is only 20min to Fond Du Lac or Appleton, only an hour to Madison, Milwaukee or Green Bay.

Lots of good blue collar people still live around here.

Businesses are starting to build here again. (May have a lot to do with the re-organization of the building inspector dept)

A lot of water for those who like to boat, fish, sit in the park and watch the waves (I personally wouldn't swim in the lakes, but thats just me. Many of us call Lake Winnebago Lake Winneseptic) or in the winter drive out and do some ice fishing if that is your thing.

Rural area surrounds Oshkosh.

If you like drinking, there are tons of taverns. Like everywhere.

And many more things.

Back to aviation, for some reason everyone thinks that KOSH is bustling all the time. It's not. Actually it is a ghost town a lot of the time. There really isn't much going on around the airport. Most of the time there is no one out flying. I am always amazed that on a beautiful evening I can go up and fly around for over an hour and not have another plane in the pattern. Outside of the EAA club, the one local flying club and the tech school my plane likely flies more hours than almost everyone else out there and I only fly around 50 hours per year. So don't let the hustle and bustle of Airventure fool you.
(I am not saying it is a bad thing to have a class D airport pretty much to yourself, just putting it out there)

Finally, as soon as my kids finish high school in a couple years, my wife and I are planning on moving out of the area.

[Fastcapy]

1600VW, kind of like that, however, sometimes it will be white out conditions and seeing the first tree would be a stretch. Oh, and the bone chilling wind chill that you can't quite get a feel of from the picture!

[Fastcapy]

Your friend is exactly the kind of guy I'd like to speak to. Before buying my home I spent several days (and nights) cruising the neighborhood to get a feel for it. I saw a Cop parked near by and introduced myself as a Firefighter (I'm retired now) looking to live in the area. He let me know where to look and where to avoid.

I looked up the local crime stats for Osh/WI. Not crime free but still pretty tame compared to many cities and states.

Feel free to PM me Mike. I can tell you the lowdown on the area you were looking at.

[Mike A]

,
Feel free to PM me Mike. I can tell you the lowdown on the area you were looking at.

Thank you buddy, I appreciate that.

Much of your previous post contains the kind of info I need to hear coming from a local I can trust. My wife's relatives in Michigan and Illinois think were crazy. They always bring up the 'arctic like' winters and mosquitos, which, if you haven't lived through a winter like that you just can't understand. My wife is from Chicago but it's been too many years for her to fully remember just how cold and miserable it was. I grew up in Portland Oregon. Up there it got into the teens and ice storms were the main problem, other than constant rain or drizzle.

Here in So. Cal. it's year round flying weather, which is great. The problem is expense. Expense for everything. For what we spend to live here (i.e. $5/gal gas when we left for Osh) and what we could get if we sold our small property (ridiculously high! :eek:, but I'd take it) we could live like royalty almost anywhere else. Some of the affordable (were NOT rich, believe me) property's we looked at not far from Osh looked like the cover of Sunset Magazine but would be multi million dollar property's here. That's the price of sunshine I guess (and crowds, traffic, crime). But, we should not complain. When we returned from our Osh vacation we went down for a walk along the beach, had some coffee at our favorite spot and looked around at the many tourists spending money they saved up to travel to where 'we' live all year. In that context, moving to 'winter' is indeed a stupid idea, a fantastic week at AirVenture tends to do that to ya :)

Thanks again,


Mike

[Dave Stadt]

,

Thank you buddy, I appreciate that.

Much of your previous post contains the kind of info I need to hear coming from a local I can trust. My wife's relatives in Michigan and Illinois think were crazy. They always bring up the 'arctic like' winters and mosquitos, which, if you haven't lived through a winter like that you just can't understand. My wife is from Chicago but it's been too many years for her to fully remember just how cold and miserable it was. I grew up in Portland Oregon. Up there it got into the teens and ice storms were the main problem, other than constant rain or drizzle.

Here in So. Cal. it's year round flying weather, which is great. The problem is expense. Expense for everything. For what we spend to live here (i.e. $5/gal gas when we left for Osh) and what we could get if we sold our small property (ridiculously high! :eek:, but I'd take it) we could live like royalty almost anywhere else. Some of the affordable (were NOT rich, believe me) property's we looked at not far from Osh looked like the cover of Sunset Magazine but would be multi million dollar property's here. That's the price of sunshine I guess (and crowds, traffic, crime). But, we should not complain. When we returned from our Osh vacation we went down for a walk along the beach, had some coffee at our favorite spot and looked around at the many tourists spending money they saved up to travel to where 'we' live all year. In that context, moving to 'winter' is indeed a stupid idea, a fantastic week at AirVenture tends to do that to ya :)

Thanks again,


Mike

We fly year round here also. It just means some months involve skis instead of wheels.

[Frank Giger]

Skis on an airplane? It would sink before the boat could be hooked to it.

[Bob Dingley]

Skis on an airplane? It would sink before the boat could be hooked to it.My first solo was on skis. Why wasn't I told about this before?

[rwanttaja]

Skis on an airplane? It would sink before the boat could be hooked to it.
Not at all, 'ol buddy:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/F2Y_Sea_Dart_2.jpg

Ron Wanttaja

[Byron J. Covey]

I'm considering a flight to Oshkosh in September, and I have a few questions:

Is there a place to hangar or tie down a homebuilt on EAA property for a day or two?

If not, where is a good place?

Is it possible to tie down on the ramp by the Hilton if I stay at the Hilton?

Any recommendations for lodging?

Thanks,


BJC

[Byron J. Covey]

Not at all, 'ol buddy:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/F2Y_Sea_Dart_2.jpg

Ron Wanttaja

An idea whose time never came. :-)


BJC

[FlyingRon]

Is it possible to tie down on the ramp by the Hilton if I stay at the Hilton?


Almost certainly. I tie down on the Hilton ramp every year the last Sunday of the show when we stay there overnight.

[falcon21]

Pioneer airport also has the young eagles camp in the summer. It's a great aviation experience for kids and teens. I went 10 years ago and loved it.

[Sonerai2mx]

Pioneer airport also has the young eagles camp in the summer. It's a great aviation experience for kids and teens. I went 10 years ago and loved it.

Yes, the Air Academy is a hugely underrated program that doesn't get nearly the publicity it should. I went to the advanced camp in 1999 and currently camp every year at Oshkosh in Pauls woods with life long friends I've met through the Air Academy. All of us actively employed in nearly every facet of aviation. if your chapters don't already you should look in to sponsoring a deserving teen to attend the Academy, it can be truly life changing for some of us.