2015: Good and Bad

[FlyingRon]

Good:

New shower trailers in Vintage with regular (stay on all the time) shower valves and heads, plenty of pressure and hot water, stainless steal stalls that were kept well clean.

New portapotty contractor with lots of TP, hand sanitizer, and even a mirror.

Food service contracted to others than Zaugs.

Operation Thirst extended operation days and way yummier (and healthier sandwiches)

More frequent trams.

Many more garbage cans.

Exhibit buildings filling up better.

I was only joking when I suggested this last year, but the Jet Powered portolet was kind of amusing.

Better enforcement of cart-free zones.

Dick Knapinski back on press relations. Was the first person at the EAA long ago who seemed to know what email was.

Bad:

New portapotty contractor not consistent in servicing. Seems to have skipped some of the units on some circuits.

Basler. Almost impossible to get their expensive fuel. Apparently this year (as with last year) they went with minimal servicing trucks. I had to cancel a day trip out because after 24 hours and mentioning to both a truck driver and the girls in the payment booth that I needed fuel, I was not serviced.

Wifi completely dead in the vicinity of the Hangar Cafe in Vintage.

[PaulDow]

As the webcast goes to blue screen, another convention ends.
I thought it's a nice gesture that the very last event of the week is a P-51 performance honoring Paul.

I wasn't able to be there this year, but the online webcams, EAA Radio, and live streams sure are a great advertisement to attend next year.

[Joe Delene]

Yeah, the fuel was slow for me. I had the tag hung on the prop from afternoon or so to almost noon the next day. I called them then talked to the truck about 3 hours or more before departure.

With the tailwind going South I ended up just going with the 20 gallons I had on board.

[rleffler]

The showers in HBC were great. It sounds like Vintage got the same type too. The pre-show hype on porcelain and air conditioned toilets got everyone excited, only to be disappointed to find out there was only one toilette for all of HBC/HBP. To make the situation worse, the number of port-a-johns were reduced too. It appears like the new vendor did a great job keeping them clean, but totally underestimated the numbers required.

i was disappointed in the vendor exhibits. It seems that quite a few of the small vendors didn't return this year. The economy is picking up, so I'm not sure why so many didn't exhibit this year. With some of the more aggressive non-aviation vendors being let into the main halls, it felt like I was at a state fair. I would have preferred to collapse all the aviation vendors into three buildings, then let the fly market vendors take over the fourth.

[slin]

We had a great time this year at Oshkosh - for us, it seemed even better than usual although part of that is just with our kids being older, they are enjoying more (and complaining less), and we didn't have a tent destroyed by weather this year, having missed the first Saturday's big storm.

For me personally, I was more pleased than normal with the forum & titw schedules - really enjoyed the Apollo 13 presentations, as just one example. I think the best part is just the friendly attitude expressed by nearly all the volunteers and most of the attendees. Just makes for a real friendly week.

My only real gripes this year had to do with the buses. (1) I thought the "after hours" buses that replace the trams were supposed to follow the same routes as the trams. But that appeared not to be the case. For example, the main "red tram" after-hours bus did not follow the normal route (i.e. did not go between the 4 exhibit hangars, where my wife and one daughter were waiting, expecting it to show up) and also stopped at the bus park, rather than continuing to the north 40 like the red tram normally does. Not a big deal to walk, but just would be nice to know what the actual routes are supposed to be. (2) Would be nice to see published somewhere - and maybe I missed it, but it wasn't obvious - the hours posted for some of the off-site buses like the Target/Grocery bus.

But these are very minor gripes and the week this year was really a ton of fun!

[troy_m]

With some of the more aggressive non-aviation vendors being let into the main halls, it felt like I was at a state fair.

Bob -- I walked through the exhibit hangars today and felt exactly the same way! I usually go through the hangars just to see what's available, and not necessarily to purchase anything. If there's something I might be interested in, I usually grab a catalog or make note of the company and do an internet search afterward. The more aggressive attitude of some of the vendors really annoys me.

[TedK]

Bob -- I walked through the exhibit hangars today and felt exactly the same way! I usually go through the hangars just to see what's available, and not necessarily to purchase anything. If there's something I might be interested in, I usually grab a catalog or make note of the company and do an internet search afterward. The more aggressive attitude of some of the vendors really annoys me.

Ditto. I don't know how many "Electrical Massage" vendors one needs but there were too many by an order of magnitude.

[PlaNeNuTz]

Ditto. I don't know how many "Electrical Massage" vendors one needs but there were too many by an order of magnitude.

And the sunglasses vendors offering to clean your glasses.

[FlyingRon]

Yes, add the ASSAULT by the electrical stimulation salesmen to the list of the BAD. The EAA should ban this behavior. One should be able to walk through the exhibits without being verbally and physically harassed by these jackasses. Particularly bad was booth 1058 "Smart Massage." Frankly, I was one step away from physically taking a swing at the guy to get him off of me. There's probably good reason not to allow guns on the grounds, as killing one of these criminals would be justifiable self-defense.

[vaflier]

From what some of the vendors had to say it apears that some of the aviation vendors were not there due to the high cost of renting a booth in the hangars. One vendor told me they paid $6000 for a small booth for the week. No wonder some of the smaller aviation related vendors were not there . I do not go to Oshkosh to buy massage chairs, tens units, television theft boxes ( yes I consider getting free tv to be copyright infringement and therefore theft , just my opinion ). I go to see aviation related business and products. There needed to be more dupsters in the north forty and this was corrected late in the week. Wifi in the North Forty was useless all week, way better last year. I realize that the proliferation of devices is just exploding and perhaps this was the problem. You could really see this in the evening when trying to charge devices at the abth houses, there wasnt an empty plug to be found most of the time. Just a sign of the times I suppose. All in all an enjoyable week except for the storm which blew up my tent on Saturday. Oh well I got my laundry washed my airplane washed and my shower all before getting out of bed on Saturday morning, what a time saver.

[dougbush]

Good:
As others mentioned, I liked the shower trailer on the North side of the N40 with the water that stays on and more privacy than the red shower house.

Also, the port-a-potties with sanitizer and mirrors. Just wish more of them were set up in the shade.

The weather was great while I was there, and no bugs got in my tent.

Bad:
Two of my favorite presenters had forums scheduled at the same time (Rutan and Wainfan).

Orange-shirts would not let me park on/near the row I asked for, but I knew that would likely be the case.

Painfully high water pressure in the N40 red shower house showers.

[mcdewey]

Yes, add the ASSAULT by the electrical stimulation salesmen to the list of the BAD. The EAA should ban this behavior. One should be able to walk through the exhibits without being verbally and physically harassed by these jackasses. Particularly bad was booth 1058 "Smart Massage." Frankly, I was one step away from physically taking a swing at the guy to get him off of me. There's probably good reason not to allow guns on the grounds, as killing one of these criminals would be justifiable self-defense.

Last year I saw one of the young "Smart Massage" thugs go after a very old gentleman in the middle of the hall. I went to the security lady (usually standing by the entrance to the halls) and told her. She said they were supposed to stay in their booth. She went over and they got a thorough chewing out. Too bad she didn't kick those snake-oil scumbags out.

Point is, let security know if you encounter such behavior from any of the booth vendors.

[krw920]

Best air shows in years. Great variety, great acts!

[Byron J. Covey]

Seen in "Homebuilt Parking:"

4935

Probably live in Vero Beach.


BJC

[Byron J. Covey]

i was disappointed in the vendor exhibits. It seems that quite a few of the small vendors didn't return this year. The economy is picking up, so I'm not sure why so many didn't exhibit this year. With some of the more aggressive non-aviation vendors being let into the main halls, it felt like I was at a state fair. I would have preferred to collapse all the aviation vendors into three buildings, then let the fly market vendors take over the fourth.

The issue of allowing non-aviation vendors into the event is a old as the event. Back in the early 1970's there was lots of consternation, but the EAA decided that the green and gray money from junk vendors was just as good as the money from aviation vendors. Like you, I would like to see only aviation vendors in the hangars, but the EAA overbuilt the hangars, so, I suppose, they will allow anyone that is willing to pay to exhibit there. It looked to me as if the hangars were missing a row of exhibitors as compared to the peak years.

Trams / transportation was good.

Didn't try any of the food - have given up, and bring a sandwich with me.

Much improved control of golf carts and other vehicles.

The free, narrated tram ride around warbirds was excellent for people with mobility problems.

WiFI? What WiFi? Worked OK early most mornings; after that, not worth attempting.

Noise from hilocopters (that are selling rides) over the Forums remains an unsolved problem. Seems as if the educational focus that was a cornerstone of the former EAA has taken a back seat to selling rides. (Do you ever get the impression that you are not a faithful EAA member if you haven't paid for a ride in the B-17 or Tri-Motor?)

Quality of forum subjects and presentations seems to have peaked and now is on a decline.

There was a sign in the IAC building that said "If you fly a Pitts, please sign the log." I do, and I did, and I got chewed out because I had not flown in with my Pitts. Another guy suffered the same tongue lashing when he signed a poster, per the invitation to do so.

Bathrooms and port-a-potties that I visited were clean. Best year ever for that.

I continue to be disappointed in the very light aircraft / ultralight aircraft participation.

Still people smoking where they should not. Only a total ban will solve that.

The Bozo on the PA system at 0700 each day, who screamed - some thought that he might be trying to yodel - should be eliminated.

The PA music is too loud, especially early in the day. I want to hear airplanes, not music, and certainly not the Bozo mentioned above.

A Piper Cherokee was parked in the Homebuilt area. Other factory airplanes were parked in homebuilt camping.

Many of us saw the flames and the smoke from the Piper that crashed. It would be nice to provide updates about the condition of the people in the daily paper. Might want to put some news there too, in addition to the press releases from exhibitors.

The weather was perfect, and I had a great time. Looking forward to "Oshkosh 2017."


BJC

[baboss]

N40
- Inadequate cleaning of green shower bldg Sat-Mon - multiple clogged toilets (when are people going to learn to do multiple flushes or use less TP, it's 2015?)
- Even during the week I thought the green shower building cleaning crew was a lot better last year. You can't have stalls running out of toilet paper
- Needed garbage can under each towel dispenser not just on one side. Garbage piled high
- Mens/Womens signs needed on inside of shower house doors as they're always open
- Showers were surprisingly hot, damn hot actually which only gets worse as your sunburn gets worse. Pressure was pretty high too. Nice "problems" to have though.
- The camping store was a great addition with any thing you'd need. I especially liked the assortment of breakfast pastries and sandwiches

- Where was the Beer/food or drink at concerts? Beer would have been nice. Thought it was served after 5pm at certain food tents???
- A GPS enabled map in the mobile app would have been nice, or maybe my friend couldn't figure it out on his Android. Any chance for the Windows version of the app?
- No txt alerts for airshow lineup...had them previous years. First one I got was when I arrived home Thursday afternoon :)
- EAA wifi worthless but Cellular signal pretty darn good. Thank God I took a Mifi with me.
- Porta potties very clean!
- I experienced excellent service and quick moving lines during peak lunch hours at most of the food tents.
- Prices at food tents were not bad at all when you consider the large portions
- More announcements by tram volunteers about stops/routes would be nice, how to get to different areas. One tram stop volunteer was loud and ON people about squeezing in a making room for more people, that was excellent and really helped some of the older folks figure out what tram line they needed to be in.
- When are you going to get rid of the blue drapes on the trams? Makes it confusing when there's also a blue tram line. I continue to see it confuse lots of folks.

[krw920]

There was a sign in the IAC building that said "If you fly a Pitts, please sign the log." I do, and I did, and I got chewed out because I had not flown in with my Pitts. Another guy suffered the same tongue lashing when he signed a poster, per the invitation to do so.

BJC

That area is run by the IAC volunteers, so maybe your "chewing out" was just good natured ribbing. Thicker skin maybe?

Kurt

[Byron J. Covey]

That area is run by the IAC volunteers, so maybe your "chewing out" was just good natured ribbing. Thicker skin maybe?

Kurt

Yes, she was an IAC volunteer. Yes, I have thick skin. Yes, I am, and have been, an IAC member for many years. No, not good natured kidding.


BJC

[Inspector Fenwick]

The "bozo" at 7am is a recording of the yodeler from the days of old, which you obviously never heard. Glad he is back. He is tradition, which you, on the other hand, do not "get". Maybe you would like to put "Jerry's One Man Band" out of business, too. Also......EAA tradition. You probably like plastic airplanes, too.

[Byron J. Covey]

The "bozo" at 7am is a recording of the yodeler from the days of old, which you obviously never heard. Glad he is back. He is tradition, which you, on the other hand, do not "get". Maybe you would like to put "Jerry's One Man Band" out of business, too. Also......EAA tradition. You probably like plastic airplanes, too.


I much preferred Ray Hegy's wake ups via low passes over the campgrounds in El Chuparosa turning 4,000 + RPM.

Yes, I like plastic airplanes, as well as wooden airplanes, aluminum airplanes, tube and fabric airplanes, hang gliders, ultralights, lighter-than-air craft, powered parachutes, and sky diving parachutes.

Do you find something wrong with that?


BJC

PS. Thanks for the link to the wind map that is on your chapter's web site. Really neat.

[Inspector Fenwick]

Yeah, who would have thought that little Continental could turn a prop "4,000 +" RPM?

[Byron J. Covey]

Yeah, who would have thought that little Continental could turn a prop "4,000 +" RPM?

As I recall, Ray was the go-to guy for Formula 1 racer propellers back then. I've seen 4200 RPM on a Cassutt.


BJC

[Interstater]

Seen in "Homebuilt Parking:"4935Probably live in Vero Beach.BJCI believe the Cherokee was in the AirVenture Cup Race parking corral, not Homebuilt parking.

[FlyingRon]

Eh, OTA broadcast TV is theft/copyright infringement? What are you some shill of the cable/DBS industry?

[FlyingRon]

I think that was one of the Airventure Cup racers.

[vaflier]

Eh, OTA broadcast TV is theft/copyright infringement? What are you some shill of the cable/DBS industry?
No I am not a shill for either cable or DBS companies, in fact I rather hate both types. I do however believe that the people and companies that have spent a lot of money to produce TV programs deserve to be paid for their work the same as I expect to be paid for mine. To me it is simply a matter of honesty and integrity, both of which seem to be fast fading in todays world. We all have to live or lives by our own standards.

[Mike Switzer]

Eh, OTA broadcast TV is theft/copyright infringement? What are you some shill of the cable/DBS industry?

That statement had me confused also, at the house over the air TV is all that is available, it is paid for by the commercials.

[FlyingRon]

No I am not a shill for either cable or DBS companies, in fact I rather hate both types. I do however believe that the people and companies that have spent a lot of money to produce TV programs deserve to be paid for their work the same as I expect to be paid for mine. To me it is simply a matter of honesty and integrity, both of which seem to be fast fading in todays world. We all have to live or lives by our own standards.

Eh? You have a rather bizarre idea of how the industry works. The OTA signals are paid for. The station pays for them and then they recover that through selling advertising. In fact, it is this local marketing revenue that is specifically thwarted by DBS and other people who remote distant OTA content. One could argue your DBS is MORE ABUSIVE to the content providers than OTA reception.

The OTA signals are put there specifically with the hope and intent that you WILL receive them. It's not like the old C-band TVRO days when people were sniffing on feeds that were designed only to be shipped around within the broadcast industry.

The biggest issue with these OTA sellers is that unless you're in a metro area, the content offered is pretty minimal. Even here 40 or so miles outside of DC, the DTV signals are pretty limited to a few specialty stations (most of which are not in English).

[vaflier]

Eh? You have a rather bizarre idea of how the industry works. The OTA signals are paid for. The station pays for them and then they recover that through selling advertising. In fact, it is this local marketing revenue that is specifically thwarted by DBS and other people who remote distant OTA content. One could argue your DBS is MORE ABUSIVE to the content providers than OTA reception.

The OTA signals are put there specifically with the hope and intent that you WILL receive them. It's not like the old C-band TVRO days when people were sniffing on feeds that were designed only to be shipped around within the broadcast industry.

The biggest issue with these OTA sellers is that unless you're in a metro area, the content offered is pretty minimal. Even here 40 or so miles outside of DC, the DTV signals are pretty limited to a few specialty stations (most of which are not in English).


Ron, I believe you are confused as to what my original post was referring to.

[Byron J. Covey]

...television theft boxes ( yes I consider getting free tv to be copyright infringement and therefore theft , just my opinion ).


Gee, I did miss something. Please describe what a TV theft boxes is.

Thanks,


BJC

[Low Pass]

My best Oshkosh yet. Been going 15 years or so. No qualifications. Not even about the port-o-let cleaning schedule or the WiFi bandwidth.

Good - almost everything. Showers, port-o-can cleanliness, food quality, organization. The Jet Waco was excellent. The new Goodyear Zeppelin was fun to watch. Enjoyed the shade it provided us down in HBC occasionally. The A350 was awsome!! I rode the trams 1 or 2 times in 7 days. Walked an average of 12 miles a day, says my pedometer app. (This was good!)

Bad - Too many flip-flop acro acts. Seriously - I'm sick of these. I'd rather watch anything other than boring flip-flop acro. And bring back Team Aerodynamix. An old Blue Angel pilot told me this is one of the best acts he's ever seen. And I agree.

[wyoranch]

My best Oshkosh yet. Been going 15 years or so. No qualifications. Not even about the port-o-let cleaning schedule or the WiFi bandwidth.

Good - almost everything. Showers, port-o-can cleanliness, food quality, organization. The Jet Waco was excellent! The new Goodyear Zeppelin was fun to watch. Enjoyed the shade it provided us down in HBC occasionally. I rode the trams 1 or 2 times in 7 days. Walked an average of 12 miles a day, says my pedometer app.

Bad - Too many flip-flop acro acts. Seriously - I'm sick of these. I'd rather watch anything other than boring flip-flop acro. And bring back Team Aerodynamix. An old Blue Angel pilot told me this is one of the best acts he's ever seen. And I agree.

How about flying more of the unusual, rare or new aircraft. I get the aerobatic show to a certain extent but I would much rather see more of the heart and soul mixed in to the show. I also understand that a flight of vintage bipes tooling around in circles does not draw the general public. What I am saying is that I personally would stay and watch the show if there was more than 'flip-flop' acro (great way to describe it!). I don't have the answer as I don't need to balance the plate on a stick compromise of gate draw vs keeping the EAA members happy. Just a personal opinion.
Rick
P.S. Am I crazy or do I remember a 'Manufacturer Showcase' before the show? I did not hear a mention of that this year (I was not there but I also don't remember it last year and I was there lol) It could be old age setting in.

[mazdaP5]

One of my gripes the last few years was mixing the showcase in with the airshow. I love the showcase (more than the airshow), but I think showcase really slows down the airshow. I also think the airshow is more for the public, the showcase is for the members.
That's really a minor gripe though. The fly in was fantastic this year, everything was clean, improvements were definitely noticed. great job EAA and volunteers.

[Floatsflyer]

The Good:

Great event overall, always the pinnacle of superior organization, I'm always impressed with this aspect.

Feel the same as everyone else regarding all the new johnny on the spots(portapotties) and servicing. Next year how about AC in them :>). There were times on those extreme humidity days when I felt I was in the Hot Box from the movie Papillon.

Found a fantastic salad at the Celebration Way food tent: Ginger sesame with grilled chicken and it was a large portion.

Attended 2 really good historically themed Forums( I usually don't go to forums). The Mustang vs. the Me109 and Battle of Midway.

Relaxing, cool, fun time at the seaplane base as per usual taking in demos of Icon, Super Petrel and Searey.


The Bad:

I concur with all who are fed up with so many acro acts. I've said this for years. B-O-R-I-N-G!!! How many lumshevacs and katrinkayarbutses can one see in a day? Ugh! Honestly, I would much rather see the new Airbus 350 making more high and low speed passes or 3 airliners in formation like a few years ago. I now only sit and watch 2 day shows and one night show.

This has nothing to do with EAA, but I was disappointed at the complete lack of any new aircraft introductions from my perspective.

Didn't connect with Hal although I tried twice, leaving notes. Busy guy.


The Ugly:

The picture posted on the smoking thread of the woman smoking on Boeing Square while sitting on her stroller. Oooooeeee, now that's uglyyyyyyyy.

[Hal Bryan]

Didn't connect with Hal although I tried twice, leaving notes. Busy guy.


Sorry I missed you this year, Floats!

[Floatsflyer]

Sorry I missed you this year, Floats!

Next year, god willin' and the creek don't rise.

[Mayhemxpc]

I am still decompressing and mulling things over. While mulling, I will chime in about the flip flops.

I agree completely with the comments above. I like to see one act, but several in a row doing the same things in similar airplanes gets boring FAST. My suggestion is that there needs to be variety. A good airshow, especially one that caters to the general public, needs to be a well orchestrated variety act. If you have more than one acro show, there has to be something unique or at least fundamentally different about each routine -- not the same flip flops just done by a different person. Formation acro by the RV's for example, is different than that done by the AeroShell team because the former are EA-B aircraft and not professional airshow pilots. That, I think, appeals to the EAA target audience. On the other hand, formation acro by Aeroshell or the Aerostars…what is the difference? (Other than the announcer saying the Yaks are "Cold-War trophies" -- which is embarrassingly untrue.)

There IS variety in the airshow already, and I appreciate it. There is also a tremendous amount of repetition, which should be trimmed.

[mmorrison123]

As always the EAA and volunteers did an amazing job of pulling everything together. I really liked the Lancaster and some of the other rare WWII equipment. But I do echo the flip-flop airshow comments. I don't even watch them anymore. I would love to see a homebuilt showcase brought back with fly-bys including a variety of old and new designs. A few years ago I was at Airventure with friend and mentioned that it was great, but I was disappointed with the variety of aircraft. He stopped in his tracks and stared at me. Certainly there is a bigger variety of airplanes at Airventure than any where else, but the older homebuilt designs are not normally seen (Volksplanes, Teenies, Playmates, Playboys, Minimaxs, Pups, and so on). I don't know what could be done to attract owners to bring them. And as much as I love RVs, they dominate homebuilt camping to the point that you can't find other designs. Maybe the first couple rows of HBC could be reserved for "other then RVs".

Malcolm Morrison
www.wienerdogaero.com

[Paul Chandler]

Another great Airventure - as a Brit I really enjoyed seeing the Lancaster, Mosquito and psuedo Spitfire fly but the inane commentary just kept coming making recording a video pointless. When a plane with a unique and wonderful sound is flying, let the spectators hear it please. Also the commentator kept refering to the Shorts SD330 as a Skyvan which is a different type altogether. Agree with the earlier comments regarding the aerobatics made earlier - too many similar acts that fill the airshow time when there are many other types that would be more interesting to see - 70 Ercoupe's on the ground that barely featured - yet the 5 Howards did.

The use of smoke on in the displays can also be a nuisance especially with an 'on crowd' breeze - the Tora Tora Tora display was obscured much of the time due to smoke and must have made it interesting for the pilots taking part.

Still found it difficult to get a listing of the airshow acts - but could an approximate list be put in the EAA daily paper? I appreciate that the acts are subject to change etc but it would give people an idea of what to expect.

Still many cases of chairs being left unattended on the crowdline to reserve a spot for the show - if you want to get on the crowdline then at least have a person stay with your gear. One group had actually roped off an area by the south CAP tower yet did not turn up to occupy the space until near show time.

Burn line needs to be better defined as by mid week it was getting difficult to be clear where it was.

A friend of mine in the UK usually keeps a watch on the daily video highlights but was not able to get anything to work on his home or business computers for some reason.

[FlyingRon]

Alas there is no policy about removing empty chairs (at least not south of show center). We were told to leave them alone (at most fold them down if they look like a wind hazard).

I agree with the smoke and commentary. One other thing I would add: MUSIC *OR* Commentary, not both. It's nearly impossible to make out either one when they attempt to play them together.

I'm not sure what you mean by definition of the burn line. It didn't appear to be a problem. I had much less problems working airshow crowd control keeping legs and things back behind compared to previous years. The burn line is really a dead piece of the grass (well alfalfa really) that had been made by spraying with glycophosphate (generic Roundup). How much contrast there is depends on how well the non-burned grass is doing.

[Marty Santic]

Another great Oshkosh! I volunteer in Camp Schoeller and it filled all the way to the south property line. Might have been the highest number of campers in the past 10-15 years. Agree with most of the previous comments.

If you stayed till Monday, the B-52 departed about noon. Was interesting listening to the tower. The tower asked if he wanted a low pass. The response from the B-52 pilot was like a kid in a candy store. He said he would love to make the low pass over runway 18. The tower coordinated with ChiCenter and told him to squawk 1200 until completing the pass and pick up his clearance once done and then dial in the IFR code.

WiFi was OK, albeit slow, in the campground but was non-existent in Vintage or the Ultralight areas. (Entire south end of the field.) The WiFi sites shown on the map in these areas must have been forgotten. I looked for the WiFi antennas in these areas but could not find them. Maybe Hal can ask IT what happened.

[FlyingRon]

The central Vintage one apparently is behind the Hangar Cafe and has not functioned since it was installed years ago.
The UL and Vintage Red Barn areas function slightly better. Amusingly the show IT guys in a fit of optimism up a wifi dongle on our Bellringer computer (and taped it to the window). It didn't work (nor did we want it to, that computer has one job...to run my program and it attempting to access the internet just gets in the way of that).

[Bunkie]

The only sound nicer than a Merlin is two Merlins, ever so slightly out of synch, making a low pass attached to the glorious Mosquito. That, alone, was worth the price of admission.

[Bunkie]

This was my first visit. I went alone and at the last minute.

The good:

1) What can I say? It's Oshkosh and it didn't disappoint one little bit.
2) All the great people with whom I struck up conversations. Where else can you meet an Airbus mechanical engineer on line at dinner with whom you can have a detailed conversation about airliners and the things that come up when designing, building and supporting them?
3) The workshops. I discovered that I will need a lot more practice with solid metal rivets before I actually work on parts that I expect to fly. I also got my first experience with composites. I wanted to attend the TIG welding workshop, more on that in a moment.
4) Vendor displays. The best, for me, was the Miller display where I got to try my hand at TIG welding aluminum. My first effort was quite respectable, the nice fellow from Miller said it looked better than his first attempt. This made up for missing the TIG workshop.
5) As this was my first trip to Wisconsin, I need to mention how friendly everyone was, not just at AirVenture, but everywhere I went. It left a very good impression.
6) So. Many. Airplanes. I felt like Homer Simpson when his eyes glaze over and he begins drooling at the thought of donuts.
7) A&W Root Beer Floats. Perfect for the hot weather.
8) The weather. I arrived on Monday and stayed through Thursday.
9) Actually getting to sit in the airplanes I am considering building. Also, taking the Sonex factory tour.
10) Meeting Willaim Wynne at the FlyCorvair booth. We had a nice, long discussion.

The not so good:

1) it took a while to get my bearings. Frankly, the maps lacked important detail and many of the locations needed better signage, including the streets themselves. Try as I might, was unable to locate one of the forums that I wanted to attend. With the distances between forum buildings, it was easy to wander for many minutes searching.
2) The second half of the NASA presentation on the Orion. I could go on about this, but I felt that one of the presenters (the fellow who presented ton the Orion itself) was something of a lightweight, someone who was not up to dealing with the sort of audience one would expect at the world's premier air exposition.
3) The lack of sleep, although I have no one but myself to blame!

[Mayhemxpc]

One good: Vintage camping area. Didn't camp there, but the family loved visiting and talking to the pilots (and sitting in the Bleriot.) Facilities and general conditions looked great! My boys opined that since our airplane was built in 1967, we should go to Vintage Camping next year. (I explained that there were certain advantages to parking the airplane with Warbirds.) In comparison, Warbird tent camping is pretty grim. Of course, I could always park the airplane in WB and camp in Scholler. Did that one year. See thread "Scholler Sucks." Those problems do not exist in Warbirds -- although WBC has its own problems, like Bell 47 overflights. That is made up for by the 6 am Merlin alarm clock :-) Ron, you and the other volunteers at Vintage do a great job!

[Marty Santic]

The central Vintage one apparently is behind the Hangar Cafe and has not functioned since it was installed years ago.
The UL and Vintage Red Barn areas function slightly better. Amusingly the show IT guys in a fit of optimism up a wifi dongle on our Bellringer computer (and taped it to the window). It didn't work (nor did we want it to, that computer has one job...to run my program and it attempting to access the internet just gets in the way of that).

Yes, the Hangar Cafe site would be real nice to have as our chapter hosts the repair barn adjacent to the Hangar Cafe and would be handy. I was unable to receive the UL WiFi site after traveling closer to the area. (Doubt if that one was working). Would be nice to have both working for 2016. The IT staff has a whole year to get them functioning. (Or revise the map!!)

[MEdwards]

Good: New shower trailers in Vintage with regular (stay on all the time) shower valves and heads, plenty of pressure and hot water, stainless steel stalls that were kept well clean.Agree, for the showers close in near the Hangar Cafe. The "similar" ones down south, near where the Seaplane Base buses leave from, were not so good. Tiny stalls and even more tiny changing area. And, the one time I used them, inconsistent hot water. If they had the better showers both places, I'd give them four stars. Not five, however, because the ventilation was so-so, but I'm not asking for everything!

Mike E

[FlyingRon]

Yes, the Hangar Cafe site would be real nice to have as our chapter hosts the repair barn adjacent to the Hangar Cafe and would be handy. I was unable to receive the UL WiFi site after traveling closer to the area. (Doubt if that one was working). Would be nice to have both working for 2016. The IT staff has a whole year to get them functioning. (Or revise the map!!)

A few years ago I put my own wifi hotspot in the back of your building. Alas that was in the old ATT days where it pretty much died once the show started as there wasn't any ATT data to be had. My T-Mobile portable hot spot worked pretty good this year.

I actually stopped in there to say hi to Cy (and see if the Ruders were there). I told Cy how to get the rotating beacon stuck to the top of his aluminum truck they had provided him.

[Bill Berson]

It was a great week!
The annoying item for me was lack of wifi at ultralights. I can't hear my cell phone with the wind and airplane/ helicopter noise. So I need to communicate with my wife at home by email. She had a minor emergency when the AC blew the circuit breaker and I could not understand what she was saying. Of course, no indoor pay phones exist anywhere.

I suggest that someone put a sign at each wifi location. And if any aren't working, please post a note on that sign.
I did find a nice wifi sign at Theater in the Woods. That was helpful.

[Marty Santic]

It was a great week!
The annoying item for me was lack of wifi at ultralights.
And the lack of WiFi at the Hangar Cafe. Hal....... PLEASE ask the IT folks if they can implement a fix.

[robertc]

The "Tora, Tora, Tora", act is way too long, and the announcer way too obnoxious. Time for this one to go away or change.

[Byron J. Covey]

the "tora, tora, tora", act is way too long, and the announcer way too obnoxious. Time for this one to go away or change.


+1


bjc

[Floatsflyer]

The "Tora, Tora, Tora", act is way too long, and the announcer way too obnoxious. Time for this one to go away or change.

+2. May I also add the word lame.

[MEdwards]

+2. May I also add the word lame.+3.
The aircraft themselves were interesting, on the ground at Warbirds. Wish there had been somebody around to ask about how they did the "conversions."

[TedK]

+3.
The aircraft themselves were interesting, on the ground at Warbirds. Wish there had been somebody around to ask about how they did the "conversions."

My Dad flew the Kate's for Tora, Tora, Tora carrier scenes. He flew Fuchida's Air Group Commander's airplane with the big red and yellow horizontal stripes on the tail for the take off scenes filmed aboard the USS Yorktown. His logs are below.

As I recall, the Zeke's were SNJ/T-6s, the Vals were BT-13s. To make the Kate's they took SNJ/T-6s, sliced off the tail and grafted a BT-13's tail onto the SNJ.

We lived in Coronado next to North Island. There were several incredible parties at our house.
4965

[Floatsflyer]

Ted, that's so cool and fascinating. If your dad is still with us, he should do an Osh forum on the experience.

What's a 52E and SH3D aircraft?

[BeagleOne]

I liked seeing the Tora, Tora, Tora aircraft flying. Much more interesting to me than seeing them on the ground. I don't think it's lame at all, you can only do so much with just a few aircraft. I enjoyed seeing the B-17 right in the middle of it. I do agree that the commentary can be obnoxious; we don't need to hear "and you are there!" over and over, and the announcer has a good amplifying system, he doesn't need to scream. I did like how they played parts of FDR's speech to Congress, but during the airshow, I tend to lurk down by the ultralights, out of range of the screaming commentary.

[BeagleOne]

Perhaps this sort of re-enactment might work! ;) Of course they'd need more jumbotrons so we could see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ccuWFidUYI

[Cary]

I arrived Friday night, July 17th, and left after noon on Monday, July 27th--the longest I've been at OSH. Obviously I enjoyed being there, or I wouldn't have stayed so long. On the good side, food vendors were great, like last year, only this year they had their acts together better. The porta potties were super clean. I could go on and on about the good, but not everything is rosy.



The new shower/toilet building in the North 40 was poorly serviced--often stalls were out of TP and toilets were plugged. Having 4 towel dispensers but only one trash can is ridiculous! I only stopped once at the old shower building, and it was similarly unkempt. I gather it's two different organizations servicing porta potties and the shower buildings, because as I said, the porta potties were spotless, each time I used one.
Stopping the trams right after the last airshow made no sense--it trapped many who were tired of walking, far from either their airplanes or their vehicles. Only one more run would have solved that problem. As someone mentioned, when the buses take over the tram routes, they should follow the tram routes exactly.
I also don't like the flip-flop repetitiveness of many of the acro pilots' performances. I much prefer the smoothness of Julie Clark, Bob Carlton, Matt Younkin--and the P51 pilot at the very end of the last airshow was truly magnificent! I'd like to see some organization to the airshows--interspersing singles acts with formations, for instance. I think it would be more interesting.
Much of the narration during the airshow acts is both unnecessary and inaccurate. Some of the announcers may have been doing it all their lives, but that's not necessarily good, as much of what they said was just filler. If they can't describe a maneuver accurately, maybe just being silent would be better.
Some of the music is awful--although some such as during Julie Clark's act is appropriate.
And putting both music and narration on at the same time--c'mon, folks, can you understand both? I sure can't. And turn down the volume! I didn't even have my hearing aids in, and it was still way too loud, even far from the speakers. When I was closer to the speakers, it was actually painful.
I also wish that the vendors were all aviation oriented, but I understand the economics of it--but I can guarantee that I will not put up with being accosted by any of the vendors again. I tried being polite this year, but next year, "SECURITY!" No, I don't want my glasses cleaned, I don't want a portable massage, I don't want this or that--if I ignore a vendor, I don't want to be followed.
One last gripe: although the golf carts and John Deere machines were less obnoxious this year, there are still some who drive too fast and carelessly in close quarters with pedestrians. Each of those machines should have a big sign on it, identifying its number and providing a phone number to call to report misuse. That by itself would likely reduce the speeding and careless operation.


Overall, though, the OSH system works well. Special kudos to the FAA's people--they do a wonderful job getting lots and lots of airplanes in and out safely. The problems arise when the pilots themselves don't follow two important rules:

Read the NOTAM--it's mandatory, but many ignore it.
Practice spot landings, right hand close in patterns, and slow flight so that the airplane can be flown competently.


I'm already planning for next year, but I hope my gripes and those of others will be considered and remedied.

Cary

[GeorgeP]

The "Tora, Tora, Tora", act is way too long, and the announcer way too obnoxious. Time for this one to go away or change.

+4 and I'd include the "regular" announcer who had the nickname "Hollywood-someone"?

Apart from this, the whole week was a blast. The event was well-organised, the range of aircraft was the best I've seen in my life and I met dozens of very interesting people. Congrats to the EAA for putting on another excellent event. :thumbsup:

[Byron J. Covey]

I believe the Cherokee was in the AirVenture Cup Race parking corral, not Homebuilt parking.

Correct, it was with the AirVenture Cup racers. That explaines it, but, IMO, does not justify it.

Call me old fashioned, but I like to see homebuilts front and center at the annual convention of the Experimental Aircraft Association at Oshkosh.


BJC

[TedK]

Ted, that's so cool and fascinating. If your dad is still with us, he should do an Osh forum on the experience.

What's a 52E and SH3D aircraft?

I wish that he were. He was part of that Greatest Generation that have gone on to Fiddler's Green.

The S-2E is the S-2 Tracker, a carrier based two engine sub hunter made by Grumman. It's original designation was S2F (second Sub hunter type made by Grumman) so it was known as the Stoof. An SH-3 is the Seaking Helo made by Sikorsky. It had a dipping sonar. You still see the Seaking flying the President as Marine One.

The 40 or so naval aviators that had been hired by 20th Century Fox had gone up to El Toro to form into a unit and get used to flying them again, they then flew down to San Diego where the broke with the plan and "spontaneously" decided to attack San Diego harbor. That set off quite a pandemonium. My dad had arranged for me to have the day off from school so I figured this was going to be interesting. I called the local news station to give them a tip but got the "yeah, sure, right, kid".

When they landed at North Island, they had to taxi to the carrier pier to be hoisted onto the Yorktown. The Navy wouldn't allow then to "trap" on the carrier, except for one Zero, so they had to be lifted aboard. My Dad arranged for one of his junior officers to take me in the duty truck to the runway. As they landed and taxi'd by, my Dad slowed down and this JO ran me out to his Kate and helped me climb into the back seat. I got to ride the mile or so to the carrier quay.

i think my Dad was one of the few stationed in San Diego at the time and we lived right by the NAS, so they had a hellacious debriefing at our house and then set out to close down the Mexican Village, a spot loving known to naval aviators till the early 90s as MexPac. When they were thrown out of MexPac, they returned to our place like a herd of drunken locust. I awoke the next morning to discover a dozen or so Captains, Commanders and LCDRs littered around our downstairs. These were Naval Aviators minted during WWII still on active duty during the Viet Nam era...it was a different planet then.

4980
4981

[dclaxon]

Eh? You have a rather bizarre idea of how the industry works. The OTA signals are paid for. The station pays for them and then they recover that through selling advertising. In fact, it is this local marketing revenue that is specifically thwarted by DBS and other people who remote distant OTA content. One could argue your DBS is MORE ABUSIVE to the content providers than OTA reception.

The OTA signals are put there specifically with the hope and intent that you WILL receive them. It's not like the old C-band TVRO days when people were sniffing on feeds that were designed only to be shipped around within the broadcast industry.

The biggest issue with these OTA sellers is that unless you're in a metro area, the content offered is pretty minimal. Even here 40 or so miles outside of DC, the DTV signals are pretty limited to a few specialty stations (most of which are not in English).

Ron, I don't think you saw the device the original poster was referring to, or don't understand how it works. I stopped and talked to them because I am looking for something to replace my satellite dish, (since most of the small handful of channels I actually watch are only available in their largest package, and the monthly bill is now in 3 digits, and I spend most of my TV time scrolling through the program guide looking for something to watch.) When I asked the guy if it would get the channels I wanted he told me that every show that has ever been broadcast has been recorded and now resides on servers in Russia, and his $250 device connects to those servers. I believe in this case the "TV theft box" was pretty accurate.

Dave

[Mayhemxpc]

I have had a week to decompress and look at what others have said, and I contribute the following:


Good.
Weather. Definitely try to make that happen again next year.

Waking up to the sound of Merlin engines in the morning.

New shower trailers and bathroom facilities on the showgrounds. Unfortunately there are none in Warbirds show area (or of more personal concern) Warbirds camping.

Active duty military displays. This may not be what AirVenture is about, but it definitely attracts interest of the general public. I liked this year betther than having the Thunderbirds last year.

Golf carts. Despite my initial fear over proliferation of carts, things seemed to be much more under control this year than last year (at least in on the airport. I understand that in the campgrounds things may have been different.)

Burt Rutan and Apollo 13 presentations. David Hartmann showed that he is still on top of his game interviewing the Apollo 13 team.

Root beer. You can ask for it outright, rather than asking for a float and hold the ice cream. (Although they ran out some days.)

Airbus. I am one of the “If it ain’t Boeing I ain’t going” crowd, but it sure was nice to see it fly like that.

Warbirds in review. Better every year. I could mention some of the better presentations, but it would take too long. From a very personal perspective, I liked Monday morning’s “entry level warbirds” presentation, where we got to show that you don’t need to have corporate sponsorship or a 7 figure income to own, fly, and restore a warbird. There was a LOT of public interest when these smaller warbirds were on display center stage

Similar to above, Cavanaugh Museum of Flight for showcasing some of these entry level warbirds throughout the week, restored or maintained by individuals, not museums or corporations.

Livestreaming and archive recordings of airshows and other events.

Airship 1: In addition to being neat in and of itself, it was very approachable on the ground.

Gary Sinese

Bratwurst

Sacred Heart food stand

Wisconsin and Oshkosh people

Not so good
Repetitious flip flop acts (already mentioned)

Airshow announcers – all as previously mentioned by others (although he said nice things about my plane.)

Wifi (see separate string)

AirVenture App – although I need to give some more thought about how exactly I was disappointed by it. I will also admit that there were some very good features, too.

Helicopter rides. In addition to being loud and annoying, they flew quite close to the Forum areas, completely drowning out the speakers.

Some forums, such as Gene Krantz’s presentation, were exceptionally popular and overcrowded. Overflow could not see anything nor hear anything thanks to the Bell 47 overflights. Forum planning could have anticipated this and provided a different venue.

On review, the good definitely outweigh the not so good. Continual improvement is the key to long term success.

[tmcquinn]

The Good:

Man, there was too much I liked to even begin to list. I'll be back.

The Bad:

Being locked out for a couple of days while they were full, then getting in and seeing tools with entitlement issues taking up more than one camping space.

I don't blame anyone for not believing the following. I went into the new shower building. Now I don't wear my glasses in the shower so I have some vision issues. Totally by coincidence, for the second time in my life I wore flip flops to the shower. As I stepped in I thought it smelled horrible, much worse than the old shower trailers. I looked down and there was sh** on the floor. I don't care what kind of medical issues you might have, you go on the floor, you f'n clean it up. I washed it away and relocated. Flip flops are no longer optional for me.

Could not find the Target bus schedule anywhere. I tried the app and the web site and spent far too much time trying. And I saw no signs at the shopping center this year. I don't know, maybe I just had a case of the dumbass. Luckily, at 58 I can still do it on foot. Someday it may not be so easy!

[TedK]

Not so good

Some forums, such as Gene Krantz’s presentation, were exceptionally popular and overcrowded. Overflow could not see anything nor hear anything thanks to the Bell 47 overflights. Forum planning could have anticipated this and provided a different venue.

On review, the good definitely outweigh the not so good. Continual improvement is the key to long term success.

Why don't more members attend the Annual Meeting?

And, Why isn't the Theater in the Woods used for oversubscribed forums such as Meet the Administrator?

[steve]

Speaking of Theater in the Woods, when and why were the big comfy chairs removed? Prior to this year, the last time I was there was the first year Lt Dan played.

[Floatsflyer]

I wish that he were. He was part of that Greatest Generation that have gone on to Fiddler's Green.

The S-2E is the S-2 Tracker, a carrier based two engine sub hunter made by Grumman. It's original designation was S2F (second Sub hunter type made by Grumman) so it was known as the Stoof.

Thanks for all the information and pics, really interesting. My dad too was part of the so-called greatest generation. He was in the RCAF during WW2 but wanted nothing to do with airplanes after it ended.

I grew up in Toronto and in the 50's there was an airforce base about 2 miles north of my house. It was called Downsview AFB and included the DeHavilland factories. Then it was surrounded by nothing but farmland. Today the airport is civilian but is now situated right in the middle of the city. When I was a kid the base was home to T-33's and those Trackers your dad flew. The airspace over my house was final for the North/south runway and I saw those Trackers numerous times a day. Sadly, one of them fatally crashed into the backyard of a house just a few blocks north of me around 1962. Today, Downsview is home to Bombardier where they make Challenger jets and the Q400 turbo-prop commuter used by many airlines.

[TedK]

Yeah Floats, too many times I went to Memorial Services as a kid to sing Eternal Father, Strong to Save for the Dad's of my classmates. My career in the Navy seemed much safer
though it gives me pause as my son enters what seems to be the family business.

That said, I do remember the Canadian Stoof drivers that would occasionally descend on our house bearing live lobsters to be cooked in trade for alcohol. I developed a strong bond for you high latitude types and enjoy working with the RCAF in my present line of work. Though, you guys should never have given up you carrier. ;)

[Floatsflyer]

I developed a strong bond for you high latitude types and enjoy working with the RCAF in my present line of work. Though, you guys should never have given up you carrier. ;)

I'm impressed you knew we even had a carrier. It was the Cold War, all the high foreheads thought the next war would only be nuclear with missiles flying back and forth. No need for carriers, too expensive to keep afloat. Had a good name though-The Bonaventure.

Good luck to your son.

[mazdaP5]

I really liked seeing flights of Mustangs in formation during the airshow, it had been years since I saw that. I liked when they set a group of Mustangs at show center and ran them up. That's huge for AvGeeks. I also saw a few times where FiFi or Overcast had fighter escort while doing their tour flights. That must have been such a rush for the folks on those tours.

[5x5]

Greetings all. Just signed up for the forums and figured I'd start here.

GOOD - almost everything. I love Oshkosh. Certainly things can always be improved but no major gripes. It would be nice to have a store near to HBC, but very manageable without. Cudos to the vastly improved shower facilities.

BAD - not really anything. But I must say I'm surprised reading this forum and the number of folks complaining about the helicopter rides. For goodness sakes, you're at the biggest airshow gathering there is and likely an avid enthusiast. And I'm assuming mostly pilots and mostly aircraft owners. The rides are mostly for folks less committed than you but still enthused with flying and we need everyones support. If the ride gives them a better sense of the vastness of the industry and they walk away that much more impressed, then to me that has tremendous value.

Have any of you been involved with or heard of an airport that is under pressure from local residents who don't see any value in it? One of the most common complaints is the noise of aircraft coming and going. It interrupts their peace and quiet and it's such a bother. The aviation community almost universally discounts this concern as "it's really no worse than traffic noise (semi trucks, loud motorcycles, etc)" or "it's really not that busy". We feel the people are short-sighted and don't understand the value and importance of the aviation infrastructure. And yet, here is this devoted community and there are members bitching about the noise of an aircraft?!?!? Because it temporarily interrupted a seminar or conversation?!?!?

The other common response to public criticism is that "they knew there was an airport there when they bought their house, why complain now?" Well, it seems to me everyone here knew there was an airshow going on when they came to Oshkosh.

How can we possibly expect the general public to accept the intrusion of aviation on their lives if we can't ourselves?

[Chris In Marshfield]

Oh how dependent (and demanding) we have become for "free" WiFi. It's only been on the grounds for a few years. I wonder what we did before that. Oh yeah, we enjoyed airplanes. ;)

[wyoranch]

Oh how dependent (and demanding) we have become for "free" WiFi. It's only been on the grounds for a few years. I wonder what we did before that. Oh yeah, we enjoyed airplanes. ;)

I could not help but wonder the same thing. When I go to OSH I go for OSH, the experience. I get sharing the experience and the convenience. But to be honest with you, if there were no wi-fi at all it would not impact my enjoyment one bit. There will be those people who say that they can not attend without wi-fi but really how many people is that? It was only a few years ago that we were filling our data cards with pics to be viewed when we got home. A few years before that we were waiting a week for the photo-mat to return our FILM. To me the reality is that Facebook and Twitter will survive without real time uploads. I do have to say that for the AV app that it would be nice to have the ability to update while on the field. Last time I looked AV Today has the same schedule published in it. It may be the fact that I sit all day programming stuff like we are talking about, but for that one week I can live without all of it.
Rick

[Byron J. Covey]

Greetings all. Just signed up for the forums and figured I'd start here.

GOOD - almost everything. I love Oshkosh. Certainly things can always be improved but no major gripes.

Me too. I will be back at Oshkosh in 2016, fully expecting things to be even better than they were this year.



BAD - not really anything. But I must say I'm surprised reading this forum and the number of folks complaining about the helicopter rides.

The early EAA really focused on education. It is in our DNA, and the forums at the annual convention are fundamental to what the EAA is. I have no objections about selling rides (although in the early days, before it bacame AirVenture and became focused on making money, one could get in a line for a two seat homebuilt and get a ride for free). After the 2014 convention, where it was impossible to hear the forum presenters for more than a few minutes at a time without their being drowned out by the hilocopters, I suggested to the EAA that the flight route be altered slightly. Alas, there was no change, and the forums in 2105 were also difficult to hear. There is a win - win solution, but the EAA needs to act. That is how things get better.


BJC

[Byron J. Covey]

I could not help but wonder the same thing. When I go to OSH I go for OSH, the experience. I get sharing the experience and the convenience. But to be honest with you, if there were no wi-fi at all it would not impact my enjoyment one bit. There will be those people who say that they can not attend without wi-fi but really how many people is that? It was only a few years ago that we were filling our data cards with pics to be viewed when we got home. A few years before that we were waiting a week for the photo-mat to return our FILM. To me the reality is that Facebook and Twitter will survive without real time uploads. I do have to say that for the AV app that it would be nice to have the ability to update while on the field. Last time I looked AV Today has the same schedule published in it. It may be the fact that I sit all day programming stuff like we are talking about, but for that one week I can live without all of it.
Rick

Lots of discussion on this sibject last year. My take on WiFi and the AV app:

The young people that we need to bring into sport aviation expect it; therefore, we all need it, even if we all do not use it. And some of us old guys really do want it, for a variety of reasons, all valid.


BJC

[glider90]

Oh how dependent (and demanding) we have become for "free" WiFi. It's only been on the grounds for a few years. I wonder what we did before that. Oh yeah, we enjoyed airplanes. ;)

I agree. I was not going to say anything but you said it for me. Perhaps I am lucky as I am tethered to the web for the rest of the year thanks (or no thanks) to work, so Oshkosh is the one time I unplug completely. My entire family is with me so I have no need for WiFi on the grounds at all. My sister had to "work remote" two days this year at Osh to get her vacation there in. I told her not to count on the WiFi, and she scheduled a morning near Appleton where a satellite office of hers loaned her a desk. I am not sure what all the *need* for WiFi is I guess.

Bottom line, we all are there for different things. Some are there as a solo intensive crash course in homebuilding, others in search of certain parts for a project. I am there for a FAMILY vacation. It is my Disneyland. I want to enjoy all it has to offer, but I also want it to be appealing to my family of four as well so they enjoy it as well. I must say the EAA is doing a fantastic job in appealing to everyone in my family. Some may see this as a watering down of the core principles, I see it as an expansion of a great event.

The Good (for me):
~Nine days in Oshkosh camping with 30,000 of my friends, and my wife and kids, plus my brother and his wife, plus my Sister and her Fiancee. We attended with my parents since 1970, I started in 73 at nine months old. My parents no longer attend, but all of us kids and our families do.
~None of my family of four using any electronic devices for a week. Kids never watched TV or even asked to use a tablet or video game. They were too entertained to miss their tech.
~The Mosquito and Lancaster in the show, and Sierra Sue flying as well in the show. Some of the best Warbird shows in a LONG LONG time.
~The dusk afterburner performance of the F-100 and F-4. Do this again!
~The 108 skydiver show. I have been to the Oshkosh airshow for 38 times. Never has 'skydivers' been a thing I mention when people ask me what was cool. That was cool. When they separated from the formation and started pulling their chutes, it looked like a spider egg hatching. Then they landed and each one walking the burn line interacted with the kids. My 7 and 9 year old got to try on helmets and touch parachutes, and loved it. The announcer was off on the location of the divers, but these announcers have never covered anything like this. The parachutes coming down looked like bubbles in the sky. It was visually awesome.
~Texas Flying Legends. Best warbird shows since the 70's or better. Bring these guys back every year.
~Jerry the one man band back for year 29th year. He has been on his 'last year' for many years. When he hangs it up buy his van, park it at his gate and play the tapes there every year. Walking into the grounds from Camp Scholler will not be the same without his music.
~The yodeler (aka Bill Ricketts) replay. I know some hate it, some have no idea the history. For me, my father and I would hear him many mornings as we walked from Camp Scholler to Warbirds. Our goal was always to be well on our way when Bill started yodeling. We did not particularly love the yodeling, but it was tradition. Now when I hear the yodel start, it reminds me of the many precious walks to the Warbirds I shared with dad when he was still alive.
~The RC flying at Pioneer this year in the evenings. It is a bike ride to get there form Scholler, but I did spend an evening over there flying my stuff, and it was cool to fly with permission during the show.
~The Ford display. Yes it is corporate and eats up room, but I am a Ford guy, and my kids just love starting their day with a rock climb or bungee jump. And the freebies are great, especially the ice cream handouts in camp!
~The craft tent. Most of you have no idea what it is, but my nine year old daughter could get you there from anywhere on the field. She makes a bracelet or craft each day and it gives her creative outlet itch a much needed scratch each day. Some day it is only a ten minute visit, but she has made friends there that she sees every year now, and that is what Oshkosh is all about.
~Evening entertainment. We have three options now, not just the Theater in the Woods. Now we have the Fly in Movie, two night airshows, and the concert. For the first time in well 38 years, we ate dinner at camp or on the grounds every night. We would always head into town for dinner one or two nights for a change of pace (R.I.P Kodiak Jacks). The new options really mean you never need to leave the compound!
~Seaplane base, still a great place to go swimming when you need a refresh from the heat and hustle of the main grounds.
~Kidventure (just wish it existed when I was a kid).
~Seeing Tom out in Red 3 again.


The Bad
~Letting people leave unattended chairs on the flight line. We held our spot from Wednesday airshow til the night show. Like well trained attendees we always had somebody in our group watching our chairs. Sure enough shortly after the night show an airplane decide to leave between the rows. My family and I moved our chairs, as well as about 10 or more other abandoned chairs so the guy could get out.


The Ugly
That it has to end. Ending Sunday is the saddest day of my year.

We all go for different reasons and want different experiences. This year was one of the very best from weather to variety of acts to overall attitude. Thank you Jack Pelton, EAA, and the 5000+ volunteers.
~Jim

[MEdwards]

Oh how dependent (and demanding) we have become for "free" WiFi. It's only been on the grounds for a few years. I wonder what we did before that. Oh yeah, we enjoyed airplanes.I got along fine without wifi in Vintage, but the point is EAA claims it's there, it's shown on the maps and mentioned in the writeups, and it doesn't work. Never has. Not that it worked poorly due to demand, it never worked at all. The IT folks at EAA should either make it work or admit it isn't going to and drop it altogether.

Suggestions on how to improve the app are completely appropriate. The change this year, to delete times in the listing of events, was a poor idea. It made the app useless to many of is. i never referred to it at all after the first couple times that were too frustrating to be believed. I trust the appropriate EAA folks have listened and will fix that next year. Thank you.

[Brian.Flynn]

1) it took a while to get my bearings. Frankly, the maps lacked important detail and many of the locations needed better signage, including the streets themselves. Try as I might, was unable to locate one of the forums that I wanted to attend. With the distances between forum buildings, it was easy to wander for many minutes searching.

Also my first time and I had the exact same experience. I chalk it up to experience now, but after about 6 hours being on the grounds the first day and sticker shock from lunch I was wondering what they heck I was doing here. There's a lot going on and a lot of commercial and non-aviation stuff drowning out the EAA stuff. Day 2 wasn't a whole lot better, but I finally started hitting my stride by day 3.

Did not accomplish what I wanted - which was to settle on a kit. But I'm closer and I still have to figure out how to finance the thing anyway. There's always next year, I can work on getting the finances in order and look forward to next year or SnF.

[Bunkie]

Did not accomplish what I wanted - which was to settle on a kit. But I'm closer and I still have to figure out how to finance the thing anyway. There's always next year, I can work on getting the finances in order and look forward to next year or SnF.

That was my mission, as well! And, like you, I'm still up in the air! Why is that so hard? On my short list: Sonex, Zenith CH-650 and RV-9.

[Bill Berson]

. Try as I might, I was unable to locate one of the forums that I wanted to attend. With the distances between forum buildings, it was easy to wander for many minutes searching.
!

The Forum buildings need big numbers on all four sides. It is frustrating walking around the buildings just to find the single building number while getting to a forum. This and the confusing tram identification color are a pain. Little things can make a big difference.

[PlaNeNuTz]

Snip ><
~Jerry the one man band back for year 29th year. He has been on his 'last year' for many years. When he hangs it up buy his van, park it at his gate and play the tapes there every year. Walking into the grounds from Camp Scholler will not be the same without his music.
Snip><
~Jim
Our first visit was in 2000 and the very first thing we saw was Jerry’s One Man Band. The bike corral gate as always been the Monday morning entrance ever since. It will be sad when he does hang it up but everyone needs to throttle back sometime. Hope he comes back for one more year.

[skyfixer8]

Bill, I agree about the forum buildings. Kept wandering around looking for one and then realized where I stopped to rest was what I was looking for. I do have to ask though, tram colors are a pain? Never had trouble figuring them out. rode them everywhere.
Bill L

[keen9]

So happy to have such improvement in the vehicle traffic on the grounds this year. Only saw one jerk driving too fast through the crowd all week! Not sure what was done differently, but it worked.

[Mayhemxpc]

The Forum buildings need big numbers on all four sides. It is frustrating walking around the buildings just to find the single building number while getting to a forum. This and the confusing tram identification color are a pain. Little things can make a big difference.+2!!!

[Dave Stadt]

So happy to have such improvement in the vehicle traffic on the grounds this year. Only saw one jerk driving too fast through the crowd all week! Not sure what was done differently, but it worked.

One change I noticed was a lack of gators which seemed to be the worst speed offenders.

[Kyle Boatright]

The first thing I noticed in HBC was the grass - it was pretty tall when we arrived the Saturday before the show started. It was much higher a week later. Second, we were parked in row 301 near the back of HBC. All of the airplanes back there were absolutely covered in dust kicked up by traffic on the airport perimeter road. Presumably that is made worse because so many cars are parked in grass/dirt lots and bring the dirt back to the main road to be kicked up by the traffic. It would be nice to have a water truck going back and forth keeping that section of the road damp to hold down the dust.

But you know what? If those are my biggest complaints, things are pretty good!

[Mayhemxpc]

My airplane was parked in the L-Bird section of Warbirds. It was also covered with dust by the end of the week -- even with flying it couple of times. Maybe it is because the L-Bird line is so close to Knapp Road and all of the trams, and gators, and golf carts, etc. Maybe it was just because it was so WONDERFULLY dry this year and everybody got dusty, no matter where one parked..

[FlyingRon]

My airplane was parked in the L-Bird section of Warbirds. It was also covered with dust by the end of the week -- even with flying it couple of times. Maybe it is because the L-Bird line is so close to Knapp Road and all of the trams, and gators, and golf carts, etc. Maybe it was just because it was so WONDERFULLY dry this year and everybody got dusty, no matter where one parked..

Yep, your choices are dust or mud. In previous years (not to mention Sloshkosh) we end up filling some of the grass taxiways with wood chips because the soft spots started to get rutted with the passage of hundreds of aircraft.

[stummers]

The good:
Both evening concerts were great, Jack Pelton has a great stage presence. Having the jets parked in the crowd for the Lt Dan band added to the ambiance. The Mustang run-up and formation flying was good to see again. The porta johns in Camp Scholler were always clean. F-100 and F-4 for the night show were awesome. Really enjoyed the fireworks and the wall of fire. Plenty of food options at a reasonable price. Jerry's One Man Band and the Ornathopter. The Saturday street market in downtown Oshkosh. ATC sounded very friendly "welcome to Oshkosh" or "What year is that plane? It looks great". Everyone in uniform from the CAP to the armed guards around the modern military aircraft were very courteous and usually ended each reply sentence with "sir".
The bad:
The 6 hour drive home and the anticipation of next year.

[FlyingRon]

The CAP kids do the thankless jobs at Oshkosh. Always courteous (they were real appreciative when we told them they were free to use our water/gatorade jubs on the flight line).

[Bill Berson]

Bill, I agree about the forum buildings. Kept wandering around looking for one and then realized where I stopped to rest was what I was looking for. I do have to ask though, tram colors are a pain? Never had trouble figuring them out. rode them everywhere.
Bill L
Sure, easy if you know about the flags mostly invisible on the back. To a newcomer, the trams all look blue.

[skyfixer8]

I know the blue fringe is a confusion factor on trams, has been for years. Any EAA staffers on here want to bring this up at next meeting ?
Bill L

[FlyingRon]

A change I have suggested before is to put on the tram stop signs where the tram is going. That would obviate the need to worry what color the tram is. The trams all stop in discrete locations for where they are going.

Something like:

BOARD HERE FOR:
Exhibit Buildings
Transfer to Bus Tower
Forums
Warbirds
North 40

and then on the other side of the street:

BOARD HERE FOR
Vintage
Ultralights
Transfer to Seaplane Base

[Low Pass]

Sure, easy if you know about the flags mostly invisible on the back. To a newcomer, the trams all look blue.With all green tractors!

[wyoranch]

A change I have suggested before is to put on the tram stop signs where the tram is going. That would obviate the need to worry what color the tram is. The trams all stop in discrete locations for where they are going.

Something like:

BOARD HERE FOR:
Exhibit Buildings
Transfer to Bus Tower
Forums
Warbirds
North 40

and then on the other side of the street:

BOARD HERE FOR
Vintage
Ultralights
Transfer to Seaplane Base

Great idea and simple enough to do!

[BeagleOne]

I don't know why EAA doesn't have just one main tram route, all the way from the North 40 to past the ultralights. It would eliminate the transfer at the Hangar Cafe and the waiting at the control tower, would be less confusing for attendees, and would require fewer volunteers since there wouldn't need to be volunteers trying to direct traffic at those locations. I would also suggest using trams instead of school busses to get to the museum and Pioneer Airport.

[FlyingRon]

I don't know why EAA doesn't have just one main tram route, all the way from the North 40 to past the ultralights. It would eliminate the transfer at the Hangar Cafe and the waiting at the control tower, would be less confusing for attendees, and would require fewer volunteers since there wouldn't need to be volunteers trying to direct traffic at those locations. I would also suggest using trams instead of school busses to get to the museum and Pioneer Airport.

There's no change at the Tower stop anymore. They did away with that last year (last year was really messed up because the Thunderbirds mandated displacing the tram routes to the perimeter road where it passes through the Vintage area).

The school buses are used when there isn't the capacity (either physically or with volunteer coverage) to operate the trams. Adding bus coverage is just a matter of $$$.

[mikw53]

As one of the initial complainers of the golf cart, scooter ,vehicles issue last year I just wanted to congratulate the staff on a job well done this year. I had no complaints or issues at all this year.Well done.:thumbsup:
Mike

[BeagleOne]

There's no change at the Tower stop anymore.

I didn't say there was. I said "the waiting at the control tower". This year there were volunteers at the tower stop with radios, apparently trying to keep the trams separated. The tram I was on sat there for ten minutes waiting to be cleared to continue north.

[Mayhemxpc]

As an opposing point of view, I think that the stop at the control tower is handled reasonably well. It is a transfer point between the red and green trams. It is a spot where a lot of people get off and the people coming in from the parking areas and green tram can get on. Treating it like any other stop is likely to result in significant hazards, given the number of people getting on and off at that point. Marshaling can be improved, and I am confident that it will be a process of continual improvement. It is certainly an improvement from a couple of years ago, when you had to unload there.

Where the exact transfer spot be between the blue and red lines should be is a good question. Until demonstrated otherwise, I am willing to believe that the folks responsible for transportation planning have looked at that and will continue to adjust based on experience.

[PaulDow]

It's obvious to me that the only solution is to build a genuine, Bona fide, Electrified, Six-car Monorail. Although Leonard Nimoy isn't with us anymore to solve any difficulty on the inaugural run.

[FlyingRon]

I didn't say there was. I said "the waiting at the control tower". This year there were volunteers at the tower stop with radios, apparently trying to keep the trams separated. The tram I was on sat there for ten minutes waiting to be cleared to continue north.

Yep, they were also there because since that is the merge of the red line going in non-obvious directions (it defies logic at that loop which way the tram will go after it departs) and the green (bus tower) line, there is lots of "which tram is this" going on there which better signage as suggested would help.

[MEdwards]

it defies logic at that loop which way the tram will go after it departs.There's some logic, but I could never remember which side went in which direction. Not this year but last, the driver of the tram I was on turned in the wrong entrance and ended up facing the wrong way on the wrong side. After getting chewed out over the speakers by the lady in the back for thirty seconds nonstop, the driver got down from the tractor and walked away.

[Kyle Boatright]

I don't know why EAA doesn't have just one main tram route, all the way from the North 40 to past the ultralights. It would eliminate the transfer at the Hangar Cafe and the waiting at the control tower, would be less confusing for attendees, and would require fewer volunteers since there wouldn't need to be volunteers trying to direct traffic at those locations.

Yep. Just one endless circle of trams running North and South. If you want to go North, hop on a tram pointed that way. South? Same thing. Get off at your destination.

Simple.

Oh, and the idea of signs stating: "Exit here for xxx" is excellent.

[Mayhemxpc]

Very late now, but I missed listing one of my absolutely favorite unexpected good things about AirVenture this year. See the One-Week-Wonder on Display and seeing my scribble, and those of my family next to some of the rivets we pulled. THAT is EAA.5125

[mazdaP5]

Very cool.