Building a Nieuport 11...

[Frank Giger]

Hey, I'm part of the governmental records!

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20190818X25532&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=LA

I'm surprised they didn't just jump straight to the final report, as that's exactly what happened.

[rwanttaja]

...And will I improve the fuel system to prevent what we suspect happened (that in high turbulence I most likely kicked the barbed fuel fitting at the bottom of the tank, which is placed to where that can happen)? Most definitely. I was wearing my steel toed work boots that day, so I could do that without feeling it. Then again, judging from the dents at the bottom of the fuel tank, those boots probably saved me from broken toes.
In light of the NTSB preliminary, I had to go back and review this earlier description. Please let us know what you come up with, and what you are implementing to keep it from happening again.

This reminds me of an incident almost 30 years ago, when I was one of the two people flying the original Fly Baby as part of a club within Chapter 26. The other member was flying, and one of the rudder cables came disconnected in the forward cockpit. He reached down and grabbed a handful of loose cable (it passes through the cockpit right by the pilot seat) and landed pretty much normally.

The post-mortem on this was interesting. Here's an overall view of the Fly Baby rudder system:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/rudder.jpg
The rudder cable attaches to a turnbuckle up forward, which then attaches to a flat strap of steel with a series of holes to allow (ground adjustability). A drilled AN-3 bolt and castle nut held the turnbuckle to the strap, with a cotter pin.

Unfortunately, the bolt was installed so that the cotter pin was on the inside...next to the pilot's legs. Over ~10 years of flying, enough pants legs had slid past the cotter pin enough times that it eventually work-hardened and broke. So, eventually, the cotter pin came lose, the nut worked its way off, and the bolt fell out, disconnecting the rudder cable from the pedal.

Here's where the "duh" moment came in. Over my previous ~4 years of flying that airplane, I had occasionally noticed my pants cuff snagging on something whenever I got into the cockpit. My ape's brain said, "huh, something pointy down there" but the logical portion of my mind never said, "I wonder if it's a problem....?"

It sounds like Frank's fuel fitting might be along the same lines...a casually noted issue, without the inferential leap to anticipating a future problem.

It's a good lesson for all of us: Pay attention to these little things. NOTICE stuff like this.

Ron Wanttaja

[Frank Giger]

This is pretty close to the thinking I'm having on the root causes of the leak.

Because the sump dump was on the outside right of the firewall, the hose for it couldn't be lower than it was - and so the hose for it had to be above it.

I had the brass barb fitting pointing straight down from the bottom of the tank, with the hose going down, to the right above the runner that holds the rudder, and then into it. While the hose was clear of the rudder pedal itself, there was some slack as well.

So it could be a couple things:

1) Like the Fly Baby, as I was entering (or more likely, exiting) the aircraft I had been brushing the brass fitting (there was nothing around it, and it's a tight cockpit) and weakened it.

2) During the turbulence it either finally broke, the tubing moved to be caught by the rudder and pulled to snap it (which I'm starting to really think about), or

3) I somehow kicked it (less likely).

As to how to make it to where that's not going to happen again, I've been thinking of more than just a few improvements.

1) Move the exterior sump drain as close to center of the firewall as I can, and if I can't , put it through the floor. To heck with having a hose near a moving part.

2) AN fitting with a little cage of some sort around it.

[Floatsflyer]

Frank, just keep standing upright, putting one foot in front of the other and keep on having as many birthdays as you can stand!

[Sam Buchanan]

Frank, the sump on my D.VII developed a crack so I ditched the sump and redesigned the tank with an RV fuel pickup and an AN fitting for the fuel line. Sumping is accomplished via a gascolator on the engine side of the firewall. This is a much more "aircrafty" installation and is working nicely. Let me know if you would like some photos.

[Frank Giger]

I'd love some, of course!

gigerfr (at) att (dot) net is my addy.

[Sam Buchanan]

Photos on the way.

[Frank Giger]

Are you going up to Russ' place at the end of the month? Are you bringing your plane?

[Sam Buchanan]

Are you going up to Russ' place at the end of the month? Are you bringing your plane?

My plane doesn't travel very far. :)

[Frank Giger]

I figured you had a high-speed trailer!

[Sam Buchanan]

I figured you had a high-speed trailer!

After as much time as I spent re-rigging that aircraft I sure ain't taking it apart just to put it on a trailer that I don't have....then put it back together....then take it apart....then put it back together! ;)

[Frank Giger]

Ah, the rigging isn't a problem, as the cables are cut to length and you most likely have easy to remember turnbuckle positions. This part surprised me in the Noop, as I've had to take the wings off and back on for a number of reasons.

Add in at events like Gardner and Russ' gathering there is always a couple three guys who know enough to not do damage (at worst) or are doing it themselves (at best) to help out.

I'm going to show up in Ohio on Friday morning just for that reason - to help un-trailer - as that is where the real conversations happen and the learning stuff, um, learned.

[edit]

The real concern is crap getting damaged in loading, transit, and unloading.

At Gardener we almost set a wing down on top of a big dog doo, for example.

[Frank Giger]

Got a chance this last weekend for a quick evaluation of the fuselage and engine.

First: Man, there is a LOT of good left on the fuselage. The longerons are toast (I knew that), but what I didn't know is that when they deformed, it was at points where only a few of the cross members bent. Most of the side tubes are just fine, which is shocking.

Still can't get over how the right wings are pretty much untouched as well as the tail feathers.

Second: The intake manifold to the left side of the engine broke right at the head, and the rear bolt looks a bit bent. At best, it's a new intake manifold. If the bolt ovalized the hole in the head, well....

At any rate it's a tear down and inspection.

So far it looks like $325 for a new cowl, a couple hundred for the intake manifold, and maybe the same if I need a new head. And I haven't gotten to ordering tubing yet.

Oh, and I found some small gouges on the prop, so off to Alaina it goes for inspection and repair.

[Frank Giger]

Initial evaluation...mostly good, some bad.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJoOjyeRlFs

[Floatsflyer]

I know nothing about the possibilities of repairing and remaking to new flying condition a totalled crashed airframe and engine. All I can say is good luck, hope you get to do it.

What impresses me though is your unwavering optimism and truly amazing positive attitude. If you could bottle and sell these, you would make more than enough money to buy a new kit and engine.

[Frank Giger]

An aircraft is only truly totaled if one loses their data plate. ;)

[Floatsflyer]

An aircraft is only truly totaled if one loses their data plate. ;)

Technically yes, mentally and emotionally not so much unless one is in major denial.

[planecrazzzy]

Technically yes, mentally and emotionally not so much unless one is in major denial.

That should Fire you up Frank....
Gotta Fly...
.
.
PS I watched the video , I pictured you different than you looked. Now get a Haircut...

[Saville]

An aircraft is only truly totaled if one loses their data plate. ;)

Hi Frank,

Haven't heard from you in a while in the forum. We hope you are ok

[Frank Giger]

Yep, I'm fine.

The medical part has been, um, challenging. Further scans revealed that I broke pretty much every non-floating rib on the left side, which is why it's taking so long to heal. :)

Plus work. Sigh. Why in the world I agreed to working on aircraft is beyond me (okay, it was money), but they've really put me to work doing all manner of repair stuff, from resurrecting Cub ribs (terrible) to fabricating pieces (not so bad).

Indeed, working at C&D (who restored the EAA sweepstakes Cub and are doing the 50th anniversary raffle plane) has increased my building skills tremendously - even though it was building the Nieuport that got me the job.

To catch up, I've decided to just completely rebuild the fuselage - I'll use it for reference along with plans and my builder's log - reusing the controls, stuff on the dash, and a few other things.

[Saville]

Yep, I'm fine.

The medical part has been, um, challenging. Further scans revealed that I broke pretty much every non-floating rib on the left side, which is why it's taking so long to heal. :)

Plus work. Sigh. Why in the world I agreed to working on aircraft is beyond me (okay, it was money), but they've really put me to work doing all manner of repair stuff, from resurrecting Cub ribs (terrible) to fabricating pieces (not so bad).

Indeed, working at C&D (who restored the EAA sweepstakes Cub and are doing the 50th anniversary raffle plane) has increased my building skills tremendously - even though it was building the Nieuport that got me the job.

To catch up, I've decided to just completely rebuild the fuselage - I'll use it for reference along with plans and my builder's log - reusing the controls, stuff on the dash, and a few other things.

Sorry to hear about the busted ribs.

Glad you decided to build a new fuselage.

[Frank Giger]

There are many techniques for cutting thick aluminum sheeting for gussets.

Some are clearly better than others:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zw5JV_AbDps

[planecrazzzy]

Hey Frank,
When cutting longer lengths with my Makita Throatless Shear...

I run a little of that waxy stuff... or put a drop of thin oil every 6 inches.

Try it.

Gotta Fly...

[bookmaker]

Keep up the great work Frank. You'll be back in the air in no time.

Dale

[Frank Giger]

My goal is rather than following the old saw of building three plane's worth of parts in order to make one, I'm just going to rebuild mine three times using just one part attempt each.

[2ndsegment]

Back about 20 years ago when I was making digital forms of performance data I made some floppy discs and sent them to a very few people one of which was the Replica Fighter Association. Was I ever off the mark! He had a homebuilt Nieuport. A far cry from a need to decouple an nominal F-4 Phantom data base from war loads and flights. So I made a render of a Sopwith triplane flying over a downloaded Dystopic City. --- give me a moment.. I need to recover my wits. More recently, I found ther was a three wing version of my favorite WW-I fighter, the Nieuport. Up on my shelf here I have plastic model of a resin NI-17, unbuilt with unexpectedly subscale from 1/48th third wing conversion kit. Oh! Well, my question to you is do you know of anyone who has built a Nieuport triplane? Similar to your built but with 3 wings?

[Frank Giger]

Nobody I know has the stones to build the Nieuport triplane. There's a whole host of reasons it was never put into production.

In other news, all the gussets for the fuselage are done!

I have to order some new hardware, though. It's amazing how much force the plane took for me, bending and twisting AN bolts.

[2ndsegment]

I was very interested in how bending ribs you had to apply a very human calibrated force to achieve the correct bend on all. My experience with splines even in computer graphics forms showed me they can fall apart where joining at tangents as you rotate them in space. I am here to meet the ones first person with the structure and also the pilots.

[Frank Giger]

It's all about being consistent from rib to rib, keeping one's feet planted and moving the body and arms the same way.

Sort of like a golf swing.

;)

[Frank Giger]

And this, gentlemen, is the simplest way to make gussets out of .090 sheet:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThHXzpvrLSI

[Frank Giger]

I'm a bit behind on turning files on the computer into a build video, but here's about two steps back:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPTeh1JAZkY

I've actually achieved all the tubing bent, cut, and coped for one side and about half the gussets in (for that one side).

She's looking more and more like an aircraft!

[Frank Giger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ss3drQ5VDY

Compressing hours of tedious work into five minutes makes it look easy!

[Frank Giger]

Yesterday I was "snake bit" while working on the aircraft. Nothing seemed to want to cooperate with me, including my drill's chuck finally giving up the ghost and refusing to hold onto bits worth a darn.

After a few hours of not much real work getting done, I figured the best thing to do was to stop playing with snakes and packed it in.

Here's a video from a few weekends ago where work actually got done, including a bit on "welding' the fuselage:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuYIF3dFbc

:)

Oh, and after getting home I wasn't very pleased, saying bad things about the 30+ year old drill. My wife looks at me oddly and says "Well, we may have to give you your father's day gift early." She bought me a new drill and was keeping it secret.

[Saville]

Yesterday I was "snake bit" while working on the aircraft. Nothing seemed to want to cooperate with me, including my drill's chuck finally giving up the ghost and refusing to hold onto bits worth a darn.

After a few hours of not much real work getting done, I figured the best thing to do was to stop playing with snakes and packed it in.

Here's a video from a few weekends ago where work actually got done, including a bit on "welding' the fuselage:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmuYIF3dFbc

:)

Oh, and after getting home I wasn't very pleased, saying bad things about the 30+ year old drill. My wife looks at me oddly and says "Well, we may have to give you your father's day gift early." She bought me a new drill and was keeping it secret.

Yep. Sometimes it's just better to stop when you are snake bit.

BTW you're quite inspirational in that you had a crash and decided to build a new plane. Some people would have just given up.

[Frank Giger]

*blush*

I take my inspiration from Bleroit, who never saw a plane he couldn't crash.

;)

[eaganm]

Frank, I thought you would enjoy knowing that I am well underway on a Nieuport 11 project from Airdrome Aeroplanes. Your EAA thread has been a huge help, both for advice and for inspiration. Thank you! The fuselage is on the landing gear, the tail feathers are all framed and the wing spars/ailerons are assembled.
On your thread, the photos you post are worth their weight in gold, although many are now missing (past page 5 or so). Is there another place where these pictures are still posted?

Again, thank you for the inspiration to start and stick with my project. I hope your re-build is going well and look forward to seeing posts on your progress.

Mike

[Frank Giger]

Nope, just on my poor website that does nothing but hold pictures for this thread. ;)

I'll take a look and make sure they're re-uploaded - thanks for the heads up!

You know, there are darned few Airdrome N11's out there! She's a sweet plane to fly, that's for sure. My only piece of serious advice I'd give is to take your time in rigging.

Rigging. Is. EVERYTHING. I spent a huge amount of time getting it right, going so far as to just scrapping the wires and starting over a couple three times. But the effort was worth it; not only would she fly hands free (still a little rudder input), but stalled gently straight forward on power off, and just a little dip to the side power on.

I'd be interested when you get to the "black hole" of the plans, namely the seat and the fuel tank. Oh, and I may need to beg a measurement or two as well. I can't find my page where it shows how far below the top longeron the bottom wing carry-throughs are supposed to go.

[edit]

Also, scan your plans. I really, really, really wish I had of.

[eaganm]

The front measurement is 24.833" from the top of the longeron to the center of the carry-through. The back measurement is 25.812".

I did scan the plans early on and have had an occasion when it paid off. I'll be glad to fill you in on any missing pages (or parts of pages) that you might need.

Thanks for the advice on rigging. It looks like a fairly daunting task. Knowing that you scrapped some cables along the process will make me feel better when the inevitable happens to me.

Thanks for looking into those photos. They are a big help. (I copied your method of making the aileron leading edges...worked great!)

[jdanneel]

Hi Frank,

I emailed you and send some data over via WETRANSFER, it might have gone into your SPAM ???

have fun

Johan

[Frank Giger]

[edit]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[Second edit]

Hilarious that it's the same "improved" full scale Nieuport 17 plans I received six years ago. :)

[Frank Giger]

Rather than a third edit, I'm trying to figure out why some pics are showing and some aren't. All of them are on the website server and display properly in Cpanel, but not as a link.

I may experiment a bit to see if I can get them to work.

[edit]

The problem was that some of the photo files had a .JPG extension, which somehow isn't recognized as a photo; however, a lower case .jpg is fine and dandy. So I'm going through and manually renaming all the image files with an all caps JPG with a lower case jpg.

This may take awhile. :)

[Saville]

Hi Frank,

How's it going with the rebuild?

[Dana]

Frank, look for a free program called AF5Rename, it can do all kinds of mass renaming.

[2ndsegment]

The upper case JPG signifies the file is 8 bit. This is unusual as when I had an 8 bit computer in 1994 the only image files were .BMP and .TIF. I am currently having some problems with .jpgs not opening in the stock photo app in Windows 10 but if I select edit first and display them, then then do open. Naturally, I have files that once were 16 bit, some 32 bit and now my file system and all working programs are 64 bit. Were you around when "long file names" became possible in Windows 95 in yes, 1995. I don't know about Apple. Until then all of the file names also were all caps. I truly appreciate the work of those who labor to keep legacy legible.

[Frank Giger]

Hi Frank,

How's it going with the rebuild?

Well, I've been slack on updating, but the fuselage is done. Well, minus turtle deck stringers, seat, controls, restraints, throttle, front side panels, wood floor, firewall, gear, covering and painting. But other than that, done.

:)

[Frank Giger]

Did a bit of artful beating on the cowl this morning! Sorry for the quality, my fllp phone is great at making phone calls, but not being a camera.

http://eaaforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8697&stc=1&d=1599951567

[Eric Page]

Wow, I would have called that part a write-off! A kiss of high-build primer, a little sanding, and it'll look like a bought one. Well done!

[Saville]

Well, I've been slack on updating, but the fuselage is done. Well, minus turtle deck stringers, seat, controls, restraints, throttle, front side panels, wood floor, firewall, gear, covering and painting. But other than that, done.

:)


Hi Frank,

Glad to hear you are making progress. When you have the time a picture of the fuselage in its present state would be great.

But totally understandable if you are too busy for that.

Thanks!

[Frank Giger]

I'm going to have to dink with the website and do some culling, I reckon, as I'm at capacity for files!

Yesterday I started to put in the lower wing carry-throughs, which is a Deep Breath Drill, as a person only gets one shot at getting it right. Turns out the 90 degree drill thingy with a chuck on it has disappeared in the last seven years since I last used it, and the hex chuck one I have doesn't have bits long enough to go the distance, so I stopped before doing something stupid.

The carry throughs are huge in moving forward. The control column attaches to them, as well as the rudder pedal skids and the seat, so I'm keen to get them in.

I had to replace the control stick, as a I gorilla'd the one inch aluminum tube over so hard in the wreck that I bent it sideways (!), and I went an entirely different direction with it. I took four layers of plywood, cut out the shape with two going the other way in grain, glued them together, and wrapped with twine for aesthetics and to hold the push to talk button wire to it. I alternated the grain because it's a lazy S sort of shape, and went with wood because apart from slamming into the ground from 50+ feet on her side, the stresses to it are small. I only really put a full grip on the stick in takeoffs and landings; normally in flight it's just my thumb and middle finger.

To be certain of durability, I'm going to make a second and stomp on it to see what it takes to actually break it.

I could have done a LOT more on the aircraft, but Jack from our EAA chapter was on the field supervising Mike doing the conditional inspection on his gorgeous KR2. Not only is this more interesting than whatever I was doing, Jack was a career USAF pilot who's career from the '60's to the '80's had him flying everything from Sabers to a MiG 17 to the F-16. His casual stories about flying early jets are amazing...hell, all of his stories about flying are amazing, and I figure that it's actually time better spent listening and asking questions.

[edit]

I keep coming across little things in the aircraft that point to just how much force was exerted on the aircraft, and what a great design it is. I was moving one of the busted wings around looking for things in the hangar and spied a four inch long AN-5 bolt that was bent into a U. Holy Freeholies, that's a lot of pressure to do that. She really took it on the chin so that I could crawl out with no more than some broken ribs and a few stitches.

I know it's just a machine, but when I see stuff like that I stop, pat the aircraft, and give a sincere thank you to it.

[Saville]

Hi Frank,

Great to hear from you.

Very wise to not push the carry-through drilling until you have the right tools.

How thick was each bit of plywood that you glued up?

[Frank Giger]

Four layers of quarter inch three ply.

[jdanneel]

For what it’s worth,
Wooden steering wheels were banned from cars because when they break on impact they become a collection of dangerous looking spears...
Happy to continue reading this never ending story, has given me a lot of info for my N11 build,
completed recently,waiting FAA approval.... after 4yrs...

thanks Frank

[Saville]

I enjoy reading Frank's entries here and his videos and look for new ones often.

Whenever I have a crummy job to do on the plane I remind myself that after all that work and the crash, Frank did not whine or moan.

He just got right back to work building another.

[Frank Giger]

For what it’s worth,
Wooden steering wheels were banned from cars because when they break on impact they become a collection of dangerous looking spears...
Happy to continue reading this never ending story, has given me a lot of info for my N11 build,
completed recently,waiting FAA approval.... after 4yrs...

thanks Frank

Hurray!

[Frank Giger]

While I saw away at editing down the fuselage build, I figured I'd pop out a quick video on repairing the turtle deck stringers.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9sfbWp2VAM

Since all the stringers do is hold fabric, I can get away with a wooden dowel splice - otherwise it would be a bit of metal tubing and some rivets.

Also, the website and photos should be coming back online soon. There was a billing error and they thought I was in arrears.

[eaganm]

Great video! And you know that the product you endorsed is good because it has un-pronounceable ingredients. My N11 is in rig (after a month of trauma in my back yard frame.) Since getting it back into the basement, I've been working on the seat and am about to start, ironically, the turtle deck...which also, ironically, I have to put a splice in:). Looking forward to the next video!

[Frank Giger]

It's actually great news that it took you forever to rig your Noop!

I spent a huge amount of time doing the same - about six weeks, so you're faster - but it was completely worth it. Nothing like flying hands off the stick and having it go straight and level!

[Saville]

Also, the website and photos should be coming back online soon. There was a billing error and they thought I was in arrears.


What's the URL for your web site?

[Frank Giger]

Website is toast.

Gonna have to start back from scratch on it...sigh.

[conodeuce]

Frank, there's a chance it was archived. If that is the case, it might permit a faster resurrection. https://archive.org/web/

[rasco]

Hi, I believe it is this page:
https://web.archive.org/web/20200530055745/http://www.darts-page.com/

And I even found some pictures, for example:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160510094146/http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/fu037.jpg

[Frank Giger]

I know I've been scare on the forums, and the damned website is dead (gonna have to find another provider and rebuild it) so posting photos is now hard, but folks, I'm alive.

Fuselage is in the "almost done" stage:

On gear.
Controls are in.
Seat is in.
Floor is done.
Firewall mounted.
Turtle deck done.
Entry step complete.*

I had Ron Wade (master of all things metal) of C&D Aviation (where I work) help me fabricate a good fuel float, which is going to work great.

As y'all know, I wrestled with fuel monitoring the whole time, and while my wreck had nothing to do with it (since I couldn't get reading that were satisfactory to me, I always topped it off at every stop), it still bugged me to no end. The problem is that the tank is wide but not tall. It's a gallon an inch, and the tank is ten inches tall. Traditional floats are designed for tanks that are narrow but tall - meaning that the darned things are narrow and tall, too. They hit the bottom of the tank when it's half full.

My long tube reading system worked, but I never liked it, as it was down and to the right inside the fuselage, meaning that eyes were down to look at it. It also suffered from tail down/tail up syndrome in inaccuracy (as all fuel sight tubes do).

The solution needed is a puck that will sit on the top of the fuel, not below it. So we made one out of thin tin (the copper we had was too thick), and it turned out great.

Cameras kinda crapped out, and I whipped out my phone for some of it, so I might be able to cobble together a video.

How we did it:

Cut a circle the size of the float we wanted (about four and a half inches) in MDF board, sanding down a small bevel around the edge, and sanding the plug out of it a bit to increase the kerf.
We took the MDF plug, dug up a three inch pulley, put a nail in the center of it, and drew around it onto the tin, and then cut out the circle.
On the MDF with the hole in it, took a bit of scrap wood, drew three lines going to the center of the hole (we really should have done this before cutting it out), and made marks on the lines and the wood to where the wood would hit the edge of the tin.
Pretty cool centering technique; just put the tin down, push it with the stick until the lines agree on three sides.
Put the MDF plug on top of the tin and repeat centering technique.
Into the press with it (one of the big reasons I asked Ron to help), where in less than a minute we had pushed the tin into the hole to make what looked like an ashtray.
Tappy-tap with a hammer around an idler bearing for a Sherman tank track - yep, we have one and use it for all manner of riveting and stuff - until it's a nice dish.
Measure around the lip, cutting a clean line (a little less than an inch).
Using a small set of smooth pliers, we bent up the edge of the dish to bring it to 90 degrees, checking for flatness on the welding table.
We set this down on the sheet of tin, took an AN3 washer with a sharpie in the middle, and drew around the dish, and then drew around the dish as well.
After cutting out the circle, we took the pliers and bent up the edge of the flat piece to 90 degrees.
The dish went into this, and we beat this down to seam it them together.
Heat and solder the join for water tightness,
We then tinned a bit of 1/4 inch copper tubing (after making some flanges on it) and soldered it to the center of the float for the rod that will go up out of the tank to tell me how much fuel is left.

A week in water and no leaks, and with the rod she floats with about an eighth of an inch below the waterline.

Since the fuel flows out of a hole in the bottom of the tank and the float is flat and larger than this hole, I'll disaster proof the system by soldering some short pegs around the hole at the bottom of the tank in case the float ever gets a leak and sinks.

* Originally one stepped on the lower longeron with the left foot, bringing the right foot over the turtle deck to step on the seat, much like mounting a horse. But since I made the fuselage deeper, I found that my old stiff self was having trouble with it. The fix was to make a step that is four inches up from the longeron. Now I can get in and out of the aircraft easily.

[Frank Giger]

weirdly enough, some of my older videos actually have ads before they start...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeszbZdd00

A few notes:

1. I don't have a brake that's long enough for this stuff.
2. This mask stuff where I think I don't have to shave didn't work out too well.
3. Cleaco? Never heard of her.
4. I didn't realize until I had sprayed the wood that I had no shot of it with all the parts in it!

[Saville]

Great to see you back, Frank! Been wondering what's going on in the hangar. I had to smile when, in the instrument panel video, you realized you forgot the two side panels for the switches - I've done that myself.

Could you rivet a couple of panels to the main one?

If/when you have time, a 3 minute video showing the status of the plane would be nice to see.

Welcome back!

[Frank Giger]

I did a quick walk around with the GoPro for you, and will probably put the shaky video up in the next couple days.

Yesterday I didn't get a lot done, owing to a minor medical twitch, but the fuel tank is about ready for finalization and mounting.

I also put on the floor panel, as A) I was afraid it's going to get beat up getting moved around the hangar, and 2) I wanted to reward myself by seeing it. It'll have to come off for covering, but that's not such a chore. I also need to make "beauty plates" to go around the cutouts for the landing gear.

I didn't do that last time around, as I wasn't as interested in looks so much as getting her into the air, and to be honest I really didn't have the skills to make them well enough to actually improve the aesthetics. Two years of working at C&D aviation on aircraft that make magazine covers and take home trophies fixed that.

I find it amusing that my little Nieuport, as imperfect as it was, turned out to be a resume. Ron and Don Wade had seen it a couple times, and knew that I made her from raw tubes and covered her under a tent in the back yard. The first Patriot Recruit was going to Oshkosh as display (it's the EAA raffle plane in the museum waiting for a winner - how cool is that?), and they needed a hand doing final prep and gave our EAA chapter a call for volunteers. At the time I was happily retired, but I figured it was only right to see what I could do for fellow chapter members. I fabricated a few minor pieces, ran the stringers down the fuselage, and generally helped out; fabric covered aircraft aren't exactly a mystery for me.

At the end of the third day, they asked me to come back for a fourth - as an employee.

My entire aviation experience was in the Nieuport, excepting pilot training (CTLS and a Champ). I think I've done well simply because I'm ignorant as to what I can't do; Ron will say "Make a thing" or "Sort out the Garmin wiring harness" and I just dig in and do it (and stop when I'm lost and ask questions). My fabrication skills have gone way up - we needed a light bay for an Experimental aircraft, so I just used a very beat up one we had laying around, took some measurements, and made it; the highest complement came from Don, who said "Huh, you found one, and it's new old stock, too. Adding the nut plates to hold the lens bracket is the way to go."

So on the rebuild I'm applying a lot of what I learned to improve what I had before. It's naturally slowing work down, but the corollary to "Pretty don't make her fly," is apparently "but it shows craftsmanship." Or, in our business, "but it wins awards and increases the value of the aircraft."

My little Noop will never win an award, nor will she ever be worth the sum of her parts in dollar value, but she will look even better, be more comfortable, and a tad bit more functional.

8889

[Saville]

I did a quick walk around with the GoPro for you, and will probably put the shaky video up in the next couple days.

Yesterday I didn't get a lot done, owing to a minor medical twitch, but the fuel tank is about ready for finalization and mounting.

I also put on the floor panel, as A) I was afraid it's going to get beat up getting moved around the hangar, and 2) I wanted to reward myself by seeing it. It'll have to come off for covering, but that's not such a chore. I also need to make "beauty plates" to go around the cutouts for the landing gear.

I didn't do that last time around, as I wasn't as interested in looks so much as getting her into the air, and to be honest I really didn't have the skills to make them well enough to actually improve the aesthetics. Two years of working at C&D aviation on aircraft that make magazine covers and take home trophies fixed that.

I find it amusing that my little Nieuport, as imperfect as it was, turned out to be a resume. Ron and Don Wade had seen it a couple times, and knew that I made her from raw tubes and covered her under a tent in the back yard. The first Patriot Recruit was going to Oshkosh as display (it's the EAA raffle plane in the museum waiting for a winner - how cool is that?), and they needed a hand doing final prep and gave our EAA chapter a call for volunteers. At the time I was happily retired, but I figured it was only right to see what I could do for fellow chapter members. I fabricated a few minor pieces, ran the stringers down the fuselage, and generally helped out; fabric covered aircraft aren't exactly a mystery for me.

At the end of the third day, they asked me to come back for a fourth - as an employee.

My entire aviation experience was in the Nieuport, excepting pilot training (CTLS and a Champ). I think I've done well simply because I'm ignorant as to what I can't do; Ron will say "Make a thing" or "Sort out the Garmin wiring harness" and I just dig in and do it (and stop when I'm lost and ask questions). My fabrication skills have gone way up - we needed a light bay for an Experimental aircraft, so I just used a very beat up one we had laying around, took some measurements, and made it; the highest complement came from Don, who said "Huh, you found one, and it's new old stock, too. Adding the nut plates to hold the lens bracket is the way to go."

So on the rebuild I'm applying a lot of what I learned to improve what I had before. It's naturally slowing work down, but the corollary to "Pretty don't make her fly," is apparently "but it shows craftsmanship." Or, in our business, "but it wins awards and increases the value of the aircraft."

My little Noop will never win an award, nor will she ever be worth the sum of her parts in dollar value, but she will look even better, be more comfortable, and a tad bit more functional.

8889

Hi Frank,

Many thanks for the quick video showing the progress on the Nieuport. Looks like great work.

I have always found that the second or third version of any kind of build I ever did comes out much better than the first. Both in looks and quality of build. This was especially true of my flying model airplane builds as a kid. And it doesn't take any longer, really, to make it nice because you already learned how to do the basic construction. A lot of thinking time expended in the first build is not necessary for the second build. When I'm doing something for the first time I'm glacially slow. Mainly because I don't want to screw it up. Sometimes I screw it up anyway. ;)

Last year I designed and made a cover plate for my fuel selector out of 0.064 aluminum. The first one I made took hours. I wasn't totally happy with it, and the second one I made took 30-45 minutes and I'm quite pleased with it.

So keep up the good work and make it as nice as you can even if it's a part that isn't seen.

The pick up stick idea is great.

[Frank Giger]

The stick was pretty high on my improvements list. To heck with historical accuracy - there's no good way to pick up the tail when built as plans. This lead to an unfortunate event when my brother-in-law, when helping move the airplane, picked her up from horizontal stab and ripped out a rivnut that held one of the supports.

This is another improvement I made - they're now held on with bolts. I'll make little circular access covers in the fabric for them.

Anyhow, the aluminum tang for it isn't enough. But cutting a broom stick down the middle and use it as a tang on a knife and it'll be more than robust.

I'm really, really, really hoping the more traditional spring gear set up is going to work out. No reason why it shouldn't, and if it keeps the tailwheel from flexing side to side like a broken shopping cart wheel I'll be thrilled. My landings won't have that unique fishtailing action at the rear of the aircraft. ;)

For everyone not a subscriber to the channel, here's the walk around:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT96csN0Nb8

[Saville]

"The stick was pretty high on my improvements list. To heck with historical accuracy - there's no good way to pick up the tail when built as plans."

I think one way they did it in WWI was to lift the tail onto a steerable cart:

8891

You can see it in action in the Youtube documentary: 4 years of Thunder, Part 1, right around the 13 second mark

[Frank Giger]

Thanks for the video share!

These planes also had tail skids, rather than wheels.

One of the many side projects is a tail wheel lift, a little device that will slide under the tailwheel and lift it into flying position. Right now I have a little table and a block of wood for those purposes, as for pre-flight I like to have it like that for checking oil, filling with gas, checking fittings, etc.

[Frank Giger]

Here's the video of completing the fuselage frame.

It took forever, but I'm actually really pleased with this video; I managed to cut down a crapton of raw video into what I think is a concise, informative video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxmfRzSmAAY

[2ndsegment]

Like an old acquaintance now. I can root for your sequence of fulfillments!

[Saville]

Excellent and inspirational video and much appreciated.

[Frank Giger]

Thanks for the kind words! I'm playing catch up with videos, working on the gear and tail wheel right now.

The present is a lot of "Well, I need to do this, but before that I have to do that, which means I need to do the other thing first..." which normally isn't a big deal, but is infuriating right now. The fuselage is darned near done! Except for the wiring, running fuel lines after mounting the fuel tank, and the top and side sheeting at the front of the fuselage.

Well, I can't run the fuel lines until the tank is mounted, and I can't mount the fuel tank until the top sheeting is done, but I can't do the top sheeting until the cabanes for the upper wings are re-made and mounted. Oh, and I can't do the wiring, either, until the fuel tank is mounted and out of the way.

So this last weekend I worked on the rear cabane, got it all jigged up and then took it apart so I could paint it. Lesson learned: painting the pieces before assembly and maybe doing some touch-up is easier than afterwards. ;)

[Saville]

" The present is a lot of "Well, I need to do this, but before that I have to do that, which means I need to do the other thing first..." "

Or another way to put it is:

"You have to do it all before you can do any of it."

I'm quite familiar with this predicament.

[Frank Giger]

The forward top sheeting was done just before I went on vacation, so now I can proceed with the rest. :)

Temperatures are starting to dip below 90, so I can get some real work done without completely wilting.

[Saville]

The forward top sheeting was done just before I went on vacation, so now I can proceed with the rest. :)

Temperatures are starting to dip below 90, so I can get some real work done without completely wilting.


You've accomplished a great deal even with the scorching heat.

[Saville]

Happy Holidays to you Frank. Hope you and yours are well.

Let us know how you are getting along, when you have the time.

[Frank Giger]

Thank you! Best wishes for you and your family as well!

Here's the gear going on...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvcD7KSvYtg

And the start of making the cover that goes over the cockpit:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMiliWXeJBU

New PC, so I was slowed down even further in making videos.

[Frank Giger]

Sometimes using the wrong tool is the right thing....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BgZKv0BrIE

[Frank Giger]

A couple more videos:

First, a very short one about the turtledeck:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHpdCMS5jp0

And second, something I've been kicking around in my head for awhile:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l74b5oqHveM

The latter is kind of neato, if I may say so myself. I was pretty pleased with how it came out.

[drigotti]

I hope Frank is doing well? I've enjoyed his build thread. No log on since March of this year......

[Saville]

Yeah I miss his entries here.

But you can see some recent videos on his you tube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/EntropyUnlimited/videos

The last entries being 2 months ago.

[Saville]

Hello Frank. Happy New Year!

We've missed your postings on progress building/rebuilding your Nieuport. Hope you and yours are doing well.