Building a Nieuport 11... [Archive] - Page 3

Frank Giger

01-26-2016, 08:32 PM

I bought the document package before I bought the kit!

They really need to idiot proof the instructions, though. It would be nice if they had in big bold letters MAIL THE 8050-1, 8050-2, AND THE 8050-88 TO THE FAA. KEEP THE OTHER STUFF FOR THE DAR in the instructions.

While it's always a pain to get stuff notarized, there was a nostalgic pleasure to filling out a form that had actual carbon paper between sheets. I was mildly disappointed to see that it did not exhort me to "press hard - you are making three copies" anywhere on it.

On flying, I'm lining up a Champ for some stick time, as well as a few hours with a "foreign" CFI to see if I have any bad habits. I'm a firm believer in getting a CFI I don't know to fly with me and spot things I'm doing wrong (and, hopefully right). While it's not completely analogous, I did get some yoke* time behind a C150 last month.

* Ug. What an abomination! First they put the third wheel on the wrong end of the aircraft and then they put in a goofy steering wheel in place of a stick. I understand why they had wheels in Gotha bombers, but a light plane like a C150? Weird, man, just weird.

Sam Buchanan

01-26-2016, 08:55 PM

I bought the document package before I bought the kit!

They really need to idiot proof the instructions, though. It would be nice if they had in big bold letters MAIL THE 8050-1, 8050-2, AND THE 8050-88 TO THE FAA. KEEP THE OTHER STUFF FOR THE DAR in the instructions.

While it's always a pain to get stuff notarized, there was a nostalgic pleasure to filling out a form that had actual carbon paper between sheets. I was mildly disappointed to see that it did not exhort me to "press hard - you are making three copies" anywhere on it.

Guess I'm an idiot. ;)

I just checked off the boxes in the instructions in the order in which they appeared, did what they said, and everything worked out fine. The best way to avoid mistakes is to talk to your DAR before filling out or mailing any forms. My DAR insisted on filling in some of the forms for me and bringing them to the inspection.

I didn't use any carbon forms. You might be referring to the old version of the Bill of Sale, I used the single sheet version (downloadable as a pdf) in the packet. All forms are available now as downloads from the FAA site.

pittsdriver3

01-27-2016, 07:12 AM

* Ug. What an abomination! First they put the third wheel on the wrong end of the aircraft and then they put in a goofy steering wheel in place of a stick. I understand why they had wheels in Gotha bombers, but a light plane like a C150? Weird, man, just weird.[/QUOTE]

I fly a couple of 140s and a 150 every once in awhile. The 140 is 10 mph faster that the 150, climbs much better and generally flies a lot nicer than the 150. So much for progress. If you can fly the Champ from the back seat an hour or so. That will really get you tuned up for the test flight. Don

deftone

01-28-2016, 09:31 AM

So now that you are getting close to the big day, how to do you feel about the way the build has gone? Would you go with a Baslee kit again if you were starting over? I am about to pull the trigger on a kit from Airdrome so have been following this thread closely. I am in Bama quite often, I hope to see you flying overhead soon!

Frank Giger

01-28-2016, 04:27 PM

I have to say that the Airdrome Aeroplanes kit is the absolute best way for a starter builder without a clue like me to go.

It's all relatively straight forward, with a few exceptions of the things not put into the kit (like the seat), and is the sweet spot between a stack of plans and a materials list to buy and CNC cut and punched pieces. While all the materials are there and the gussets pre-cut, just about everything needs to be trimmed, coped, bent, drilled, and riveted. So there's a lot of minor fabricating going on.

I always pause when someone asks me if it's plans or kit built. It's both.

The fact that the tools are all basic and the skills required are easily learned was a huge plus.

If I were to build another aircraft it would be an Airdrome kit. Indeed, it's crossed my mind that if I had the financial means I'd mothball my current plane and start all over again, making something a step better in finish.

And that's the thing about Airdrome kits. One can do what I did - stick to the plans and make one of the only vanilla models he has out there that is solid, functional, and good(ish) looking - or one can tweak things slightly and have something that's a show stopper and looks more like a replica than a representation of the type.

That SE5a of his is a gorgeous monster, for example, and still LSA compliant!

Not to be understated is the support one gets. Robert Baslee is seemingly always available and gives straight answers to what have been my often vague questions, and others that have built Airdrome and Graham Lee planes are just the Internet away from advice.

The first four days of the build in Robert's shop were invaluable (okay, they had a value in that I paid for it) in teaching me all the skills needed for the build. I had put together a rudder prior to going whole hog, figuring if I could even half a** it I had potential...and I wasn't wrong. But learning all the other things, from how to cope tubing to fit to annealing to how to do maintenance on a pneumatic rivet gun were priceless.

While it's taken me a long time as far as the calendar goes, in large measure that's because I took long breaks from the project owing to weather. We had a summer that was just too hot to work out of doors for any length of time and a bear of a winter as well. Plus I worked slow, just having fun with it. On days where I started early and just cranked it out I got huge amounts of things done; usually, though, I'd go out into the back yard and do one or two things and then put the tools away.

[edit]

That said, I selected the Airdrome kit for three reasons:

1) I wanted my own airplane.
2) I knew I could build an Airdrome plane for around 12K. With do-over pieces and a few other considerations it's now closer to 15K. But it's a far cry for what I'd have to pay to own a decent Champ that didn't need a lot of work.
3) I want to fly for my own pleasure. Low and slow in an open cockpit is the life for me. Forget transportation, night flying, all weather stuff, or aerobatics. Cruising at 55 mph at 1500 feet AGL on a CAVU day with low winds over cow fields and rivers is pure heaven to me....as is an hour of touch-and-goes.

So it met my criteria of price and mission. That it's representational of WWI aircraft and I'm sold. I'm sort of a WWI nut when it comes to airplanes so that was the cherry on the top.

Sam Buchanan

01-28-2016, 09:30 PM

I just finished (are they ever really finished??) an AA Fokker D.VII and have a build site:

http://fokkerd7.com

Here are some thoughts after the first four months of the project:

http://fokkerd7.com/4-months.html

Frank's comments pretty much mirror my impressions, the AA kits are a good value but require enough thought and fabrication to keep it interesting. :)

bookmaker

01-29-2016, 07:53 AM

Although my N17 project is a long way from completion, I concur with both above. Mine is taking much longer than it should. But I knew it would before I started. The main reasons are that I do have another life and my wife and I like to go off several weekends a year and on other adventures. Also, I have changed nearly every area of the kit from "as designed" to something that I feel looks a little more original. When you make one change, you have likely made ten and you have to figure out all to continue. Before everyone goes nuts over that statement, I have conferred with Robert on nearly every change - all that are structural.

The AA kits are definitely builders kits and require a lot of interpretation of the very basic drawings that are the plans. But as said above, Robert is a saint about answering questions and helping decipher some aspect of the build. Also, there are many other builders out there who are a wealth of info.

Dale

Frank Giger

02-05-2016, 05:43 PM

Got a postcard from the FAA today!

Hurray, she's officially registered as an aircraft with the gub'ment!

Now to firm up the rest of the paperwork and get a DAR to sign off on her.

Frank Giger

02-09-2016, 05:48 PM

Translated this thread into the builder's log.

258 pages of pedantic murmurings with a lot of poorly taken pictures.

Now to make an index for it (otherwise I won't be able to find any particular thing in it if needed) and the POH.

Frank Giger

02-18-2016, 10:00 PM

Saturday is "come find stuff wrong with my airplane" day, with my EAA chapter brothers sharpening their knives and grinning at the prospect.

Should be interesting - most of them have been through the inspection process and have long experience with homebuilts, and know that a tough rehearsal is the surest way to get a good show when the time comes.

Frank Giger

02-21-2016, 10:37 PM

jdanneel

02-22-2016, 02:30 AM

[QUOTE=Frank Giger;53860]

I also got a letter from the state of Alabama asking for a bill of sale so they can tax me 2% on the aircraft.

2% only ? I am facing 21% + import taxes, and I paid last week 960 euro (1000usd) to the CAA so they can inspect my shop and building materials ....If all goes well I will be allowed to start with the rudder, If the gents from Brussels are satisfied with the work, only then I can move to THE next item, make another appointment for inspection and so on, .....

good luck with your DAR inspection

johan

Sam Buchanan

02-22-2016, 08:26 AM

Lots of fun on Saturday - my chapter is the reason I'm in the EAA, not the folks in Oskosh. The list of gigs isn't very long and I worked off most of them on the spot - but all of them were gigs to be fixed before inspection.

I also got a letter from the state of Alabama asking for a bill of sale so they can tax me 2% on the aircraft. I'm going to call them for some amplification on this....running afoul of the tax man is on my "do not do" list.

Frank,

Pay 2% of the amount on your bill of sale via your Alabama income tax form (line 18e) and you will be good to go. The tax is referred to as 'Use Tax' on Form 40. Reply to the Revenue Department that your tax will be paid with your income tax return.

Frank Giger

03-04-2016, 03:31 PM

My friendly FAA inspector has all my documents "for review" and should be calling the beginning of next week to schedule a time to come out and look at her.

And my EAA chapter is just the best. It's no accident that they volunteered me to give a presentation on the Test Flight Pamphlet for our next meeting. That is probably the most non-subtle way of them showing me the love.

One of the things the pamphlet says is to drain and check the oil before and after the first flight. I was thinking of doing that anyway (at least before the first flight), but there is was in black and white - not just a good idea but a best practice.

As always, there's a kind of story to go with changing the oil. Since I don't know what wrong looks like, one of my EAA brothers with a lot of VW experience came by to lend a hand. My five gallon oil drain catcher needed some surgery to shorten the pipe going up to the catch pan so it'd fit under the airplane.

Huh. So I whip out my Harbor Freight dremel tool, put a cutting wheel on it, hack some off, run the edge on the sander, and call it done. He just gave me a look and said "I'd of used a tape measure."

"They only complicate things," I replied in my best deadpan.

But I did measure the oil cooler under the engine when he wasn't looking, grabbed a bit of scrap sheet, ran some lines down it in a sharpie, and whipped out the butane torch.

"Whatcha doing?"

"Annealing. I don't want to have any fuss out of this sheeting." When the mark disappeared, I just quick-quenched it with water, put the edge on the side of the table, and whacked out some bends with a rubber mallet on both sides and then the end.

I put a line of rare earth magnet buttons along the lower edge and put it on top of the oil cooler, a clean shop rag into the catch basin of the oil can thingie and then put both to the side, and grinned.

"We should warm the engine."

"Yep, that's the best way."

So I taxied around the hangars twice, because what's the fun of just having it sit there idling?

Put all of it back, pull the plug, and two little tiny slivers of metal, each maybe a third the with of a hair and less than 1/4 inch long stuck to the magnet, and we didn't find anything else on the rag. So nothing that would cause concern out of a new engine.

Frank Giger

03-11-2016, 10:33 PM

No word from the FAA inspector this week - emails and phone calls unanswered. I figured he must be out of the office for some reason (maybe TDY somewhere), but a note from him saying such would have been nice.

pittsdriver3

03-12-2016, 07:32 AM

You're lucky that He agreed to inspect it. In our district the FISDO says they are way to busy to do inspections and that we have to use a DAR to the tune of $650 plus travel expenses. Don

Frank Giger

03-14-2016, 09:21 AM

Thursday at 1400 my little Bebe gets the official look-see from the FAA man.

I am positively vibrating with anticipation.

wyoranch

03-14-2016, 01:59 PM

Frank,
please stop vibrating.... You are causing my coffee cup to rumble off my desk. Oh wait that is me vibrating for you as I am truly excited to see you bird take flight. Hope it goes well!
Rick

Frank Giger

03-17-2016, 03:41 PM

And....she's an airplane!

Zero real gigs on the inspection. He wants me to put some slip paint on the nuts on the engine case bolts, which is really minor (and something I had no control over, as I didn't assemble the engine), and I'm more than happy to oblige.

Still, I got the pink slip and certified as the official repairman for the aircraft in one swoop.

The FAA man was very professional, asked some good questions, and gave her a close examination. It was an exercise in being quiet on my part - one should never talk themselves out of a passing score, after all.

Of course it's windy season here, so I'll have to be patient before I can put her to flight.

wyoranch

03-17-2016, 05:02 PM

Congrats to you Frank's!

Dana

03-17-2016, 06:09 PM

Congratulations! I was hoping to see a post reporting the certificate and the first flight, but you certainly don't want to take any chances on the first flight, best to wait for the right day.

Floatsflyer

03-17-2016, 08:52 PM

It's a plane! It's a plane! Congrats and all the best on the first flight. Of course we all want pics and video. Fly safe.

bookmaker

03-18-2016, 06:44 AM

Hi again Frank. Really great that you are the proud owner of a real airplane. One of these weekends, I need to hop in one of the club planes and come visit.

Dale

Frank Giger

03-22-2016, 06:24 PM

So my holes are all patched and waiting for paint,* the nuts have slip marks on them, and the Hobbs meter is installed onto the firewall. I could have gotten sexy and wired it to where it only ticked over when the engine was running, but that's a complication I didn't want to introduce - so it really tracks how long the master switch has been on.

The FAA man called and said I have to re-do my repairman's application. I didn't spell out BROWN for eye and hair color, and under "Make of aircraft" put my name down as it asked for on the form (first, middle, last), but not as it is in the other forms, last, first, middle initial. Fussy old things, government agencies, if one asks me.

Not one to complain, I downloaded and properly filled it out, will sign and scan and email it to him.

The worst part is that here I am with an airplane and the winds are 10 kts gusting to 15, and had been that way since sunrise. One of my EAA brothers was out at the field and came over with a minor look of concern in his eye. "Whatcha doing?" "Little stuff until the [expletive] winds die down so I can take her out." "Good." Bah and humbug on this time of year - I need zero gusting to one.

* In order to fit all the bolts, clevisi (?), nuts, and cotter pins into the interplane struts and the lift tangs, I had to cut holes in the wing around the attach points. My frustration level can be seen by the size of the holes. The inspector asked me about them, and I told the truth - I wanted to leave them open like that so he could see they were properly fastened, but had planned on patching them up as soon as he stopped goofing around and handed me the pink slip, so get on with it, government man. Okay, I didn't actually say that last part. But I did grin as I didn't say it.

Frank Giger

03-29-2016, 09:43 AM

Oh, the evils of Fast Taxi!

So the day was perfect and so I donned my flying cap, cinched up the straps, hollered Clear Prop and went on my way.

The plan, as I agreed to, was to slowly increase the throttle down the runway, bringing her up to flying speed gently. That way I'd know for sure she'd fly true before taking her into the air.

I'm not a big Fast Taxi fan. My only other experience with it lead to a great tale involving grass, a broken landing light, and a very nice first landing in a tailwheel - one of my best three pointers, to be honest.

Anyhow, I got on the runway and advanced the throttle. Wowsers, she's got loads of power right away. I was between a quarter and a half of throttle and she was starting to get light.

So I pushed it forward before things got squirrelly, got the tail up, popped up into ground effect, built up speed, and took off cleanly.

Hahahaha - no I didn't.

She started to drift a bit left off the center line and with the tailwheel down on the pavement I gave her just a smidge too much right rudder to put me back on proper track. Now that whole directional control thing is getting iffy, so I chop the throttle.

A perfect - and I mean perfect - three hundred sixty degree ground loop!

I was so good that the lower wings barely kissed the pavement, and only that because the left wheel became a taco at the side stress.

I took a look at the wheel and decided she'd be good enough to get me off the runway under the plane's power, and once there shut it all down. A moving dolly under the bent wheel and we pushed her back into the hangar.

The supra crappy tailwheel Robert issues out got a flat spot on it, too, but I didn't expect it to last past today regardless.

So no flight today. The upsides:

1) I know she'll track true up to flight speeds, so forget any more fast taxi nonsense. Next time it's advance the throttle and go.

2) No real damage. The hub on the wheel is fine, so I'll take it to our local bike shop and have them replace the rim and spokes. That's super good, as my brake drum is welded to the hub. We had to look hard to find any scrub marks on the lower wings.

3) I get to exercise my rights as an official FAA aircraft repairman!

4) I've had my ground loop. They say there are two types of tail dragger pilots - those who've ground looped and those who will. I may just make myself a decoration for it.

5) Absolute sheer joy with the aircraft. She's a honey, I can feel it. I have to admit to chuckling as I got out of the plane rather than cursing up a storm or being downhearted. Hell, even the KC Dawn Patrol guys have taco'd and shattered main wheels (including Tom's famous Oshkosh incident).

wyoranch

03-29-2016, 10:49 AM

Frank,
glad all is ok in the end. I love your attitude about all of your adventures...... A lot of people could learn from you. Now get back to work....
Rick

Frank Giger

03-29-2016, 06:45 PM

Well, I'm early on in my inevitable march to becoming a true hero:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/a1/ba/88/a1ba88e44f5116bf7a7f191bd71c8eb6.jpg

-Frank "But I don't want to be an EAA technical advisor" Giger

rwanttaja

03-29-2016, 08:41 PM

Oh, the evils of Fast Taxi!
In the Fly Baby world, I recommend that pilots don't attempt high-speed ground runs. On the Fly Baby, at least, there's a zone of....hmmmm, "less stability".... around 35-40 MPH. The airplane on takeoff powers through it quickly, and on landing, slows quickly past it. Assuming your taildragger current, I'd just power past it and take off.

Just checking, but you DO have the Starks/Glaser mod that moved the main gear back a bit, right?

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

03-29-2016, 09:04 PM

Oh, yes. Robert Baslee, guru of all things tube and gusset, put it this way when we built the gear and fuselage: We can move the gear back four inches and give you some ground handling or put it straight down like the originals and maybe put some skid plates under the lower wings. I may be embellishing a bit, but he didn't mince words on what his suggestion was.

And oddly enough, when I glanced at the ASI just as the world went around it was just past 40mph.

I talked to Robert today about a new wheel and he was both amused and sympathetic. He reckons I was transitioning to flight and once I chopped the throttle she was going to loop.

I am very, very, very hesitant to say the advice I was given by a whole host of sources (including you, FAA Test Flight Pamphlet) should have been ignored in favor of my gut feeling on the hazards of fast taxi procedures. But in reality I weighed it all out and made the decision to put it as the first part of real flight testing and then followed the plan. The "Education" part of "Education and Recreation" doesn't stop when the pink slip is handed over, after all.

I'm actually kind of pleased. Chalk it up as the rehearsal of the first flight, and a bad rehearsal makes for a great show.

rwanttaja

03-29-2016, 09:05 PM

Well, I'm early on in my inevitable march to becoming a true hero:
Doesn't really reflect the "Hero's Journey" of the Frank Giger we all know....

http://www.wanttaja.com/frank.wmv
Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

03-29-2016, 09:15 PM

Awesome!

Thanks for making my last look at the web today one that made me laugh!

pittsdriver3

03-30-2016, 06:46 AM

Frank, Try this next time. As you advance the throttle when you feel you have positive rudder control relax the stick forward and let the tail come up to a tail low attitude and hold it there about halfway between three point and level. It will lift off when its ready. Level off in ground effect and let it accelerate a bit check your airspeed, feel out the controls and climb out. On test flights I climb up 2-3000' over the airport and orbit for 30 min to an hour if everything is looking good. Before descending slow it down and do a power off stall. With a lightweight high drag biplane you will want to use more than 1.3 VSO for approach more like 1.6 as when you pull the power off and start your flare the speed will come off very rapidly. It will slow down twice as fast as something like a Champ.
What happened to you is when you shoved the stick forward and raised the tail rapidly you got lots of gyroscopic precession and when you chopped the throttle old Newton took over and you got lots of precession the other way and away you went. Get it fixed and have another go and have fun. There is nothing else like taking an airplane you built aloft for the first time. Don

Frank Giger

04-19-2016, 10:31 AM

Yesterday was a maintenance day at the aircraft, and I got a lot done.

First, here's a picture of the wheel after the loop event:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/loop.jpg

So the first thing to work on is tightening the bungees. I guess they'd shifted or something to loosen over time, and I hadn't really noticed. The axel was floating in the slot nearly halfway on the right and a quarter the way on the left.

When I put a jack under the gear to lift there wasn't any tension at all! The bolt there is to show how much slack was under the bungee and not forced at all:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/bungee001.jpg

In re-tightening the cords I got a real insight as to what Robert was doing with the zip ties - they're an extra thumb. As one tightens they sort of hold things in place to help keep the tension as one wraps.

So now she won't be all loosey-goosey in ground handling.

Oh, how tight did I make them? As tight as I could. I figured the same loosening process where some places are tighter than others and it all equals out will unfold to give a little.

On to the tail wheel. The Airdrome Airplanes bog standard solid rubber tire gave its all in the loop (and wasn't looking all that great to begin with) and had to go.

I opted for another solid rubber tire that I made a bushing for.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/loop02.jpg

And now she's back down and moving freely.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/loop03.jpg

I also have a much better idea on what happened in the loop. When I was moving the one good wheel from side to side to check my bungee tension something just screamed at me.

Pulling the wheel from the right, the drum came right out of the brake strap with no problem. In both putting it on and taking it off from the left it was tight.

Basically the left brake was rubbing the whole time. No wonder I was turning left.

:rollseyes:

Once I started correcting to the right, the loose bungees over-reacted (one can note that the paint all the way to the top of the slot has been scraped in the above picture), and when she went up the slot on the left the drum moved forward and grabbed the strap even more.

So a rapid pull to the left, lateral stress on the wheel which caused it to bend, and a full stop on that side.

That makes me an idiot for a whole different set of reasons - hurray!

Anyhow, all fixed and now I have a technique to check brake tension. Just jack each side up and spin.

deftone

04-20-2016, 11:02 PM

Great job with the diagnosis, I am willing to bet you have just saved future Baslee builders from a similar fate.

Frank Giger

05-03-2016, 09:12 AM

Well the whole purpose of this thread is to show the not-so-great of the build to serve as a way for folks to jump in and say "oh no, don't do that!" and to get a chuckle at my long way around to solving simple problems.

With new wheels on the way, I'm faced with an old problem again. My brake drums don't match the wheel in a way that makes attaching them nearly impossible. Last time my father-in-law and I found some old bushings from a bit of farm machinery and welded it to both wheel and drum. It worked great with one problem - it's very permanent. I need to develop a mount adapter that can be moved from wheel to wheel in case this ever happens again (and in talking to the KC Dawn Patrol guys, bending a wheel is uncommon but not unusual).

My first idea was to put in some dog ears on the drum (the inner diameter of the hole of the drum bisects the bolt holes for the wheel), make a wooden spacer, and bolt the drum to the wheel through it and then the drum to the spacer. A fine idea with a flaw - getting the drum center to the wheel is such a fussy affair that it comes down to luck, and I wasn't sure it'd stay true when tightened down. I'd like to say that I figured out this was the wrong road to take pretty quickly, but I'm hard headed and spent two days trying to make it work.

The answer is to weld a strip of steel to the drum, covering the hole in the center, and going from there. Now comes the second problem - centering all the holes perfectly on the drums. One would think that finding the center of a circle and then measuring out three holes at an equal distance from the center that match the ones on the wheel would just be a matter of geometry, a ruler, compass, and a sharp pencil. But my drill press is dead (casualty of my leaky tent workshop) and to be honest my confidence in getting it right is just about nil.

The obvious answer is a lathe. Throw the drum in there and center becomes easy. One can measure and mark for the holes, and even make the hole in the center that fits over the axle (right now the plate goes over it). But hell, if I don't have a working drill press the odds of me having a lathe are about the same as having a trim lever in the cockpit. Enter the brother-in-law who came to see the welding of the drums out of idle curiosity and a series of incredulous looks at my plans for how to handle it.

"You do know I work in a machine shop, right?" he drawled, "I reckon that's a half hour for both of them. Won't you just leave them with me and I'll do them up during lunch one day this week."

The wife's family isn't very demonstrative, so with great effort I suppressed the urge to hug him and weep with joy and relief onto his shoulder.

Meanwhile I made a call to Worksman Wheels to see the status of the new wheels. They said three weeks and this is week four. The fellow on the other end agreed that it's taking too long and asked that I call back today after he did the research on it. Sounds like a good opportunity to ask for a discount due to my inconvenience.

So hopefully next week, weather permitting, I'll have a fresh opportunity to break something else on the aircraft. :P

Frank Giger

05-10-2016, 08:41 AM

Wheels should be here tomorrow!

Either Thursday or Friday I'll be up to the airport to mount the brake drum and maybe cover them, too.

Frank Giger

05-12-2016, 07:37 PM

Drums worked a treat! New wheels and brakes installed, but I held off on covering them.

The reason is that I also laced the new rim on the old hub, an exercise in extreme trial and error. Even with an identical wheel to use an example, it took me four complete re-do tries to figure out the right angle to the first spoke. From there I worked fairly quickly, but the afternoon was spent.

The allen wrench for the cable catch on the brakes is normally in my airplane "quick kit" that has the most common tools needed to work on stuff. I guess gnomes must have come in the night and taken it, though, as it was nowhere to be found. I played the long odds that maybe I put a tool back where it belongs with the others, but no dice. My allen set was all there except the one I needed.

My diagnosis on what went wrong on the fast taxi attempt was validated. The left brake is tight - it's a wonder it wasn't pulling me left at slower speeds.

With no way to adjust it, I packed everything up and headed home. There was no point in even a slow taxi; I'll go back tomorrow with a wrench that fits to fix it.

Saturday the weather looks amiable and I may try for an early morning try.

Frank Giger

05-17-2016, 10:57 AM

For those who didn't peek, there's a post in the "First Flight" section of the forums!

A few pictures of some kinds of craftsmanship which has become somewhat standard on my beautiful aircraft:

First up is the new improved brake drums:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake012.jpg

This actually is a huge improvement, as they can now be moved from wheel to wheel if I have another unfortunate event. With the welded plate machined out to a perfect center hole and the bolt holes drilled expertly (by someone else, of course) now the drums are dead center.

I did have to put a high spot on one of the drums to the sander. It's a machining error on the manufacturer's part, as one section was thicker than the others, making it less than perfectly round.

Tail wheels. Ug.

Okay, backing up a bit, my Aerodrome Airplanes tail wheel took a helluva beating in the loop, so I replaced it with a solid rubber one from Harbor Freight:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw005.jpg

It looked okay mounted to the aircraft, and turned freely.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw006.jpg

However, under load it didn't fare as well!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw007.jpg

We found this at the edge of the runway about 30 feet from the turn-off to the taxiway. I reckon the core went to little pieces and I rode the steel down to the bushing in about 40 feet.

Because the airport is all IFR ready, the pavement is grooved - we figure that's why I lost so much steel in such a short distance.

Time for some professional parts. One of my EAA brothers donated an actual aviation tail wheel and worked up a mount to fit it, as it's wider than the old one(s).

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw008.jpg

It's a smaller gauge steel than what was originally there and proved to show some flex. I figured the mount would work well until it didn't....and it wasn't something I'd like to explore again, so another one of my EAA brothers donated a piece of steel channel that's just a tad thicker than what I had before and we chopped and drilled it.

I still have to re-cover those wheels. In giving the plane a complete look-over I couldn't help frowning at what a sad rush job I did on them.

Frank Giger

05-17-2016, 10:22 PM

One of the things I'm going to need to tackle is the radio (an Icom IC-A6) issue.

Right now I'm just laying it down on the seat next to me, which means it's antenna is horizontal; my seat is aluminum and has a high edge around it, meaning I'm probably masking it regardless of orientation.

The ugly solution is to bungee it to the rear cabane that hold the upper wing, and naturally I think that's not so great. It may wind up there anyway as there isn't a lot of room to put it where I could actually do more than flip frequencies. The more elegant solution is an antenna, but that means having to learn about radio frequencies, resistance, and a bunch of other things that relate to antenna length. I always got glassy eyed in those classes back when I was in uniform, to be honest.

I somehow lost the little clip that screws into the back of the battery; if I got a new one I might be able to just clip it to the side of the seat, meaning it would be above the railing and pointed up and down. It might be the ten dollar (plus ten in shipping, no doubt) solution. Or I could build a box to hold it on the seat, which is probably a better solution. That way I could pull it out and look at it if my blind stabbing at buttons leads to confusion.

But that leads back to making an antenna. Depending on how long it would have to be, I could run it along the cabane and it would be pretty discrete. A quick check of Aircraft Spruce and they have a "windshield mount" antenna for Icom radios for 29 bucks. I'd probably come out ahead to buy one.

Next issue up is putting a bog standard headset over a leather helmet. Um, it doesn't work. So I need to either get Ron to write in even smaller words on how he got the plugphones to work under his headset or buy a flying helmet made for headsets. I may need to enlist my wife's help in measuring my head and plunk down an order with Pop's Leather (I've heard good things about them). In the meantime I'll probably dig out my beret and wear it instead - it will keep my bald head from sunburn and won't fly off in the wind.

While it's a WWI looking aircraft, I'm not into re-enactments. I don't really care if I ruin someone's immersion by wearing a headset.

And last is my press-to-talk switch. It's a HUGE button with velcro straps to it. I can't put it on top of the control stick because I won't have enough clearance for full movement. I could fabricate a new control stick, but that's out. The interim solution is to put the velcro straps around the first two fingers of my left hand with the button on the side. That way I just press it with my thumb. I like this because it keeps all the wires away from the controls. I may carve up a throttle knob to replace the ball I have now and put it on top.

Tomorrow morning looks like a good opportunity to give her another go around the patch.

.

rwanttaja

05-17-2016, 10:51 PM

Frank, I'm currently traveling with limited online access. Getting home Wednesday, and I'll try post more stuff then.

if you go to the Fly Baby home page, click the "Index" button and scroll down to "Avionics". Youll see an entry on under-helmet headsets. That's got most of the information you'll need, although I've developed an simpler mike boom. I'll post about it here in a day or so.

Check the spec sheet for the Icom, but it almost probably has an 8 ohm speaker output. Regular aviation headset are 300 ohm, but modern ones usually work fine with the 8 ohm systems. My Flightcom Denali ANR headset works ok, but i do run the volume at max and sometimes wish my volume control went to eleven.

They do make ANR ear buds. I like my plugfones for comfort, though a Dutch Fly Baby driver swears by his ANR units.

Helmet-wise, I am still using the same helmet as for my first Fly Baby flight almost 30 years ago...but Banana Republic doesn't sell them any more. Go to the index on the Fly Baby page and look under "Comfort"...you'll find my thoughts on helmets, goggles, scarves, and flying jackets.

I'll post more when I have access to a real keyboard.

Ron Wanttaja

Dana

05-18-2016, 05:40 AM

Frank, I have an Icom A24 (same as the A6 with added VOR, which I never use). It works just fine with ordinary earbuds. I use Audio Technica noise canceling earbuds under my leather helmet and a homemade boom mike (with an electret microphone element from an old computer headset) that clips to my shoulder strap, and I put the PTT switch into the end of my control stick where I push it with my thumb. (I flew a plane the other day with the stupid velcroed on PTT switch on the stick, and boy was it annoying!)

As for the antenna, get a piece of coax cable with BNC ends and a female-female BNC connector (I got them at Radio Shack). You can use your original rubber duck antenna. The cable connects to the radio, and the connector goes between the other cable end and the antenna, which you can put anywhere you want (on my Kolb it was under my knees, pointing straight down). I made a simple plastic block to hold the connector.

Frank Giger

05-18-2016, 10:10 AM

LOL, I never tried normal hooking a computer headset to the radio, or normal ear buds.

Sam Buchanan

05-18-2016, 10:26 AM

But that leads back to making an antenna. Depending on how long it would have to be, I could run it along the cabane and it would be pretty discrete. A quick check of Aircraft Spruce and they have a "windshield mount" antenna for Icom radios for 29 bucks. I'd probably come out ahead to buy one.
.

Frank, no need to worry about making an antenna when you can buy a 1/4 wave stainless whip for less than $25. Here is one on the bottom of my Fokker:

http://eaaforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=5541&stc=1

Search the Wag-Aero online catalog for antennas, part # C-170-000. You need coax (any length will work) with a connector to fit your radio. If your plane has a metal belly pan that will be the best location so the antenna has a good ground plane. A 1/4 wave whip will have much greater range than the rubber ducky.

rwanttaja

05-18-2016, 11:01 AM

LOL, I never tried normal hooking a computer headset to the radio, or normal ear buds.
Assuming your A6 is the same as my A5, there are two ways to work the interface. You can buy Icom's headset adaptor, or you can build your own.

If you use the commercial adaptor, you'll need a 1/4" plug to a 1/8" plug adaptor.
Consumer headsets often come with them, but they're available for a couple bucks.

Aircraft Spruce sells a complete mike boom assembly for that side of it.

For the DIY solution, see the avionics solution section on the Fly Baby page, and click the panel-mounted handheld article.

Ron Wanttaja

Dana

05-18-2016, 05:43 PM

LOL, I never tried normal hooking a computer headset to the radio, or normal ear buds.

I didn't directly hook it up. I made an adapter harness to plug into the Icom, connecting to the PTT on the stick, with two jacks, one for the microphone (just the microphone element came from the computer headset, but it's a standard electret mike), and one for the earbuds.

rwanttaja

05-18-2016, 10:48 PM

Assuming your A6 is the same as my A5, there are two ways to work the interface. You can buy Icom's headset adaptor, or you can build your own.
Well, now that I'm home, I see that's not the case. The A6 uses a different style headset adaptor. It's a two-jack system, and (nicely) the headset jack seems to be a standard 1/8 jack. However, I notice my A14 (which uses the same adaptor as the A6) only gives me right channel output. Not sure why, but it would be easy to fix and/or do a work-around.

I didn't directly hook it up. I made an adapter harness to plug into the Icom, connecting to the PTT on the stick, with two jacks, one for the microphone (just the microphone element came from the computer headset, but it's a standard electret mike), and one for the earbuds.

I'm half surprised this worked, as the standard for an aviation microphone is a bit goofy; it needs to emulate an old carbon mike. However, Icom sells the same basic radio to a variety of markets; it's likely that its designed to work with a straight electret mike.

The other drawback is that the computer microphone won't be the noise-cancelling type. Depending on the environment, that may not matter. Depending on how drafty the cockpit is, one might need a foam muff, too.

This is a picture of the latest microphone boom I built:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/h_headset_new.jpg
(This photo was taken without the mike muff, to show the parts better).
The microphone element is a Pilot PA-7X from ACS ($60), and I used a U-173/U connector (ACS, $4) to mount the microphone. The connector is only $2, but buy a batch since the small pins can wander.

The "Flex boom" is from a "USB lamp"...Amazon has them for $2 to $10, there's enough flex material for two headsets. The flex boom jams inside the connector and gets epoxied from both sides prior to wiring the unit.

The main structure is 14-gauge ROMEX cable. It's designed to go over the top of the ears and dip BELOW the main part of the head, just above the neck.

The wiring from the U-173 Connector to the other end of the ROMEX was thin stranded wire taken from an Ethernet cable. It's probably about 28 gauge...it's small enough to fit inside the flex tube. The flex tube does come with wire, but it won't be long enough to go all the way around the frame. You can run the main cable nearer the ear, if you wish. Cover the whole thing with shrink tube.

For the main cable I used...two-conductor shielded RCA cable, like you use to connect your speakers to your home stereo. It's cheap...bought 24 feet for about $10.

The connector at the end might throw some people...it's not a standard mike plug, it's a 1/8" JACK. One of my goals was to don the microphone (and ear buds) outside the cockpit, don my helmet, and THEN climb in. But a standard headset cord can trip you up, climbing onto the wing and into the cockpit.

So I rig my headset mike cable and the ear bud cable to only hang to just above my waist. The airplane has an extension cable plugged into the radio; it ends in a 1/8" jack (for the plug from the ear buds) and a 1/8" plug (to plug into the microphone). Since the mike and the ear buds connect to opposite genders, there's no danger of plugging in the wrong way.

The plug and socket on the end of the extension are tie-wrapped to a precision plastic clamp that clips to my shoulder harness. Oh, all right, it's one of those bag clips for keeping your Fritos from going stale....

Anyway, it works pretty well. Don the headset and helmet, climb in, and plug into the extension cable. Just like an F-15 pilot.

Again, most of the technical details can be found at:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/h_headset.html

Ron Wanttaja

Dana

05-19-2016, 04:56 AM

Well, now that I'm home, I see that's not the case. The A6 uses a different style headset adaptor. It's a two-jack system, and (nicely) the headset jack seems to be a standard 1/8 jack. However, I notice my A14 (which uses the same adaptor as the A6) only gives me right channel output. Not sure why, but it would be easy to fix and/or do a work-around.

The music earbuds are stereo, but the Icom puts out mono, so it's only connecting to one side. I simply wired the adapter to drive both sides; I don't plug the earbuds directly into the radio. Actually I made my own plug for the radio, with an 1/8 and a 3/32 plug mounted together in an aluminum plate, and epoxy potted the back side. Two jacks hang off that, one for the earbuds and one for the mike, and a wire to the PTT switch.

I'm half surprised this worked, as the standard for an aviation microphone is a bit goofy; it needs to emulate an old carbon mike. However, Icom sells the same basic radio to a variety of markets; it's likely that its designed to work with a straight electret mike.

The other drawback is that the computer microphone won't be the noise-cancelling type. Depending on the environment, that may not matter. Depending on how drafty the cockpit is, one might need a foam muff, too.

Well, people say they can hear me with no problem. Most modern handhelds can use an electret mike. I used the plastic shell from the computer headset, too, and put a foam muff over it.

Dana

Frank Giger

05-19-2016, 10:38 AM

When one thinks about it, handhelds having "normal" input and outputs for speakers and microphones makes sense; the electronics for them drive a standard speaker and mic as part of the unit. One doesn't see the typical TSO/non-TSO ratings on them as one does with every other piece of aviation equipment, probably because they're not meant for mounting permanently as part of an aircraft.

The mono-vs-stereo explains why a lot of the ICOM headsets have only one ear piece - they just avoided having to adjust the wiring to drive two speakers:

http://www.planetheadset.com/images/agent-icom.jpg

Granted, the example is for the non-aviation radio set that ICOM manufactures, but I'd bet a dollar to a donut they're standard across their line.

I also suspect the GA headset to radio adapter is stuffed with gizmoes, which is why they're about as round as a small pill bottle. ;)

Wife says to not "screw around" and spend the 30 bucks on the windshield antenna and buy a flying helmet to fit the headset - after giving me the "oh, c'mon" look when I say that combined they'd be less than a hundred bucks. She may not know much about aviation, but she knows that anything with the "A" word attached to it is usually priced in units of 100 dollars.

I need a range of about 15 miles when in the air - enough to get the weather at the airport and report in at 10 miles (and hear anyone incoming). My particular concern for having a radio at all is IFR pilots.

I really like the idea of noise reducing ear plugs with a speaker in them, though. Many years ago it was unfashionable to wear hearing protection for those in uniform, and I took some minor abuse for being a stickler on wearing it, something I'm glad I did today. Granted, often I wore ear plugs just so that I could hear the radio handset via direct connection from the speaker to my ear (trying to call for fire while some joker is firing a machinegun close by can be difficult), but my hearing loss is a lot less than most of my peers.

I may take to wearing ear plugs under the headset, though the noise of the aircraft seemed a lot less than I thought it would be. The natural caveat is that when I fly things like noise, heat, cold, etc., seem to evaporate. I can't say I've ever been uncomfortable behind the stick of an aircraft - my mind is on other things.

Dana

05-19-2016, 12:23 PM

...when I fly things like noise, heat, cold, etc., seem to evaporate. I can't say I've ever been uncomfortable behind the stick of an aircraft - my mind is on other things.

That's because you live in Alabama. Believe me, I've flown in conditions where I got so cold it was hard to keep my mind on flying the aircraft... when I landed my fingers were so numb it took five minutes to unbuckle my helmet.

I wish I'd used ear protection in my early days. I'm paying the price now.

Dana

rwanttaja

05-19-2016, 04:28 PM

Granted, the example is for the non-aviation radio set that ICOM manufactures, but I'd bet a dollar to a donut they're standard across their line.

I also suspect the GA headset to radio adapter is stuffed with gizmoes, which is why they're about as round as a small pill bottle. ;)

The one for my Icom IC-A5 isn't; it's just short wires to two larger jacks leading from the 4-conductor 1/8" plug that goes into the top of the radio.

I like the one in the A6; it looks like you can just use a 3 mm and a 2.5 mm plug to hook up the speakers and microphone. My A14 looks like it uses the same connector.

Aircraft headset standard were established in the 1930s, and are based on the carbon-centered components of that era. That's why GA radios have 300-ohm earphone outputs. The 1/4" plug for the earpieces and the 0.20" plug for the mike comes right from the switchboards of the day.

Most 300-ohm aviation headsets will work with an 8-ohm output like the ICOM, but with a slight loss of efficiency. The problem is, the handhelds typically have low audio power to start with. So having to push that low power into a high impedance will reduce the amount of energy that actually gets turned into speaker-cone wiggling. My Flightcomm Denali ANLs work good enough to hear the radio in the Fly Baby, but I'm really wishing for a bit more volume. On less-noisy airplanes, it really wouldn't matter.

The OTHER way is more of a problem, as anyone who has tried a consumer-grade headset into a traditional aircraft radio will attest. The radio is expecting 150-300 ohms of speaker impedance, so the 4-8 ohms of the consumer headset seems nearly like a dead short. Again, it's possible that more-modern radios will be designed to accommodate it.

Comfort-wise, my leather helmet is a bit "poochy" on the sides, and scoops in a bit of air in flight. Not really a problem in the Fly Baby, as the cockpit is relatively draft-free. In the summer, this is great, as the ear buds don't clamp down and the bit of airflow is comfortable. In the winter, the traditional-type headset is better, as it clamps down on the sides of the helmet and keeps the wind out.

BTW, one warning on the Icom: If you use the push-to-talk switch on the radio itself, it will use both the plugged-in mike AND the built-in mike. Using a separate PTT switch with my A5 cuts out the built-in mike.

Ron Wanttaja

rwanttaja

05-19-2016, 04:42 PM

That's because you live in Alabama. Believe me, I've flown in conditions where I got so cold it was hard to keep my mind on flying the aircraft... when I landed my fingers were so numb it took five minutes to unbuckle my helmet.
Here's my guide to figuring out to wear when going flying. Note that this also depends on how long a flight I intend to make...going out for the day, I generally go one step "colder."

75+ degrees: Street clothes
65-75: Light jacket over street clothes
55-65: light jacket, long-sleeve shirt or thin sweater underneath, light gloves, light scarf
45-55: A2 flight jacket, flannel shirt, light gloves, light scarf
40-45: A2 flight jacket, light turtleneck sweater under flannel shirt, heavy gloves, heavy scarf.
32-40: As above, with Spandex ski mask
32 and below: Replace A2 jacket with B3.
20 and below: add thermal underwear.

Note that my Fly Baby cockpit is relatively draft-free; those with most-exposed piloting positions may want to stage down a step or two.

The big thing is to cover up exposed skin...it gives the cold a boost.

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

05-19-2016, 08:33 PM

On Alabama cold - it has to be experienced to be appreciated.

I did my Montana time, and it actually feels colder here - until it gets below freezing. The humidity just cuts through one to where I'd rather it be 20 degrees as opposed to 40. And it does get below freezing in the winter time (okay, about three months of the year).

I'm a firm believer in trigger mittens, Danner boots, woolen pants, and sweater under a leather coat. Wool scarfs are God's own gift, IMHO.

But we're almost into the full bite of summer, meaning that it'll be 90 degrees at 8:00 a.m. and thanks to it and the humidity my 200 foot elevation will be closer to 1,200. :)

I'll have to see if there's enough volume coming through the speakers on a conventional headset to hear clearly. The cheapo solution is to get some plastic ear plugs and trim them to where the stem just touches the speaker; then the sound has a direct connection to the ear canal. It's the trick I used in the Army to hear from their crappy handsets when there was a lot of background noise.

griffin800

05-21-2016, 05:26 AM

Try your local Harley dealer for cold weather clothing. Motorcycle riders have a similar problem, have to be able to work the controls when it's cold outside. I do both btw.Yes there are less expensive clothing items, Harley stuff is very high quality and will last for years (if the dogs don't eat it).Bill H.

Frank Giger

05-23-2016, 03:44 PM

So on my first flight I advanced the throttle too slowly, got squirrelly, and took off. For my second flight I decided to just firewall it.

I think the answer is somewhere in between...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lA31bOp99s&feature=youtu.be

:P

Frank Giger

05-23-2016, 07:46 PM

A few "hero" shots of the plane I took today:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/Hero002.jpg

This one looks like a screen shot from Rise of Flight:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/Hero003.jpg

Now it looks like someone trying to make a screenshot of Rise of Flight look real:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/Hero003 bw.jpg

I like this one the best, though it's not great at actually showing the aircraft.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/Hero004.jpg

Ready to keep the Hun at bay in May of 1916, er, um, 2016.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/Hero004 bw.jpg

I'm going to have to start thinking seriously about how to do the gun mount!

rwanttaja

05-23-2016, 08:34 PM

So on my first flight I advanced the throttle too slowly, got squirrelly, and took off. For my second flight I decided to just firewall it.

I think the answer is somewhere in between...

It's a lot funnier in one of Dick Starks' books than it is in real life, ain't it? :-)

Nice video!

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

05-23-2016, 10:03 PM

When I regaled them the tale of the first flight, this was the response via email:

Sounds like an average DawnPatrol taxi test. You are sticking pretty close to the norm for our world. Exciting isn't it? Made me smile and laugh-out-loud reading your exploits and remembering our first flights. The thrill of that first take-off (never on purpose) is just hard to describe.

I've had the privilege of meeting and talking with the KC Dawn Patrol guys at length a couple times, and they're all fantastic (though sadly, Tom Glaeser Went West). The funny thing is that there isn't advice to give other than "just keep flying." That and every one of them seems to have a different learning curve to tackle. It's transition training without any real instruction, as you well know in your own single seat aircraft. One can be talked to, but there isn't an IP to say "no, no, not like that!" while you're flying the aircraft.

rwanttaja

05-23-2016, 11:55 PM

I've had the privilege of meeting and talking with the KC Dawn Patrol guys at length a couple times, and they're all fantastic (though sadly, Tom Glaeser Went West). The funny thing is that there isn't advice to give other than "just keep flying." That and every one of them seems to have a different learning curve to tackle. It's transition training without any real instruction, as you well know in your own single seat aircraft. One can be talked to, but there isn't an IP to say "no, no, not like that!" while you're flying the aircraft.
Hmmmm. Sounds like the Nieuport community needs someone like a Budd Davisson or Ed Kolano to fly one of the airplanes for a bit and develop some pilot notes.

I ran "Nieuport" through my homebuilt accident database. Not all of them were the CIRCA/Aerodrome type designs, of course, but the majority of them were VW powered. I also ran "Team", "Fly Baby," and "RV-3" as fellow single-seaters. Curiously, they all had about the same number of accidents over the ~17 years my database runs: 15 each for the Nieuports and Fly Babies, and 17 each for the RV-3 and the Team. And, of course, I had the overall database to compare them to.

One third of the Nieuport accidents occurred on the first flight, vs. 6.3% of all homebuilts. That's a pretty significant difference. Two-thirds of the Nieuport accidents occur within the first 40 hours, vs. 19.5% of the overall homebuilts. Of course, most homebuilts have more than one seat, and pilots can get some stick time before their first flight.

The TEAM line of aircraft have almost identical statistics (35.7% of the accidents on the first flight). But the stats for other single-seaters are lower. A bit over 9% of Fly Baby accidents occur on the first flight...although, of course, as an older design, there were probably fewer Fly Babies making their first flights in the 1998-2014 period. However, half of the Fly Baby accidents occurred to what were probably purchasers of the aircraft (they had fewer hours Time in Type than the aircraft), and none occurred on their first flights.

It was a similar story for RV-3s...again, an older design, but no first-flight accidents were found in the 17-year time period.

Of course, this was *reported* accidents. I've heard a lot of "broken wheel" stories from the Nieuport crowd, and those generally don't seem to get very serious.

The good news is the fatality rate: About 25% of homebuilt accidents involve fatalities, but the percentage is way down for the Nieuports: 6.7%.

I've attached a PDF with a summary of the data.

Ron Wanttaja

rwanttaja

05-23-2016, 11:58 PM

One third of the Nieuport accidents occurred on the first flight, vs. 6.3% of all homebuilts.
Statements like this get mis-interpreted a LOT, and I wanted to make sure what I'm saying is clear:

The statement means, "One-third of Nieuports that suffer a reportable accident are on their first flight."

It does NOT mean that one third of all Nieuports crash on their first flight. It is a percentage of the aircraft that have accidents, NOT the overall fleet.

Ron Wanttaja

Dana

05-24-2016, 04:46 AM

Well, that was an "exciting" takeoff!

Are you allowed to fly off the grass at your airport? That would be a lot more forgiving.

Dana

Sam Buchanan

05-24-2016, 07:33 AM

Wow........calling that a take-off is a stretch of semantics........glad you and your plane survived that one.Remember, the VW rotates the opposite way compared to a Continental. LEFT rudder is needed to hold the centerline.

Frank Giger

05-24-2016, 07:40 AM

Ron, I interpreted it the way you meant it - I did my time as a analyst and learned the values and pitfalls of statistics - and it's not surprising. The fatal accident was on a first flight as well.

What is happening is with the stick neutral that she's entering flight from the three point stance, and with the tail wheel the authority in yaw until that moment there's no chance to apply left rudder to counter-act the p-factor...and a visit to the side of the runway (or off of it, as we've seen).

It's instructive that on my first flight I had something similar but much less dramatic. Because I had spooled up to that point gradually, when I pushed through the flight speed I popped the tail up and applied rudder quickly enough to get just a little lateral displacement relative to the center line.

The cautions against raising the tail too soon are over stated, I think. It's become clear some forward stick is necessary from the start, allowing the tail to come up on its own as airspeed builds and the pilot (me) to apply left rudder, correct the yaw. Once she's past the initial take off speed, one can see she pretty much flys on rails.

rwanttaja

05-24-2016, 08:28 AM

Ron, I interpreted it the way you meant it - I did my time as a analyst and learned the values and pitfalls of statistics - and it's not surprising.

Good, glad you read it right. I've had cases where magazine editors interpreted it wrong, and it gets embarrassing....

What is happening is with the stick neutral that she's entering flight from the three point stance, and with the tail wheel the authority in yaw until that moment there's no chance to apply left rudder to counter-act the p-factor...and a visit to the side of the runway (or off of it, as we've seen).
Had a similar case back when I was first flying the original Fly Baby. It had a modified tailwheel horn for controlling a water rudder when on floats, and the "gearing" was different than the aerodynamic effect of the aircraft rudder. So when the tail came up, the nose went left as I wasn't holding enough rudder.

Assuming you've got the direct connection to the rudder bar, sounds like a longer horn on the tailwheel might help. Though you'll probably get accustomed to it faster than it would take to add a new horn....

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

05-24-2016, 11:19 AM

I contemplated cheating a bit and rigging up a control horn at the wheel that was a little off-set - when the wheel tracks straight the rudder is a bit to the left - but then it dawned on me that the crutch for take off would be a big baseball bat to the head on landing.

And that's the part that has me scratching my head a bit.

On my first landing I was under power and (with all candor and no puffery) was a greaser. Tail low, mains kissed the runway, pulled the rest of the power, and the tailwheel went down the short distance for a straight roll.

In the second flight, I'm reaching for the ground and got the typical bounce. From there I just committed to it since she was still going straight and I had some airspeed and did the Three Wheel Dance. The crazy thing is look at the directional stability - she's running straight on! At no time did I think she'd do anything squirrelly.

Almost all of my time flying has been touch-and-goes. I knew that I'd be building a quirky tail wheel with a very short wheel base and so going round and round in a Champ seemed like the best thing to do for my skill set. Plus I absolutely love shooting touch-and-goes.

Frank Giger

05-24-2016, 01:13 PM

Hmmm, grist for the mill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9ow934Cak0

I swear when I get this down I'm going to put it all in writing and beg Robert Baslee to put it on his site.

Frank Giger

05-25-2016, 07:46 AM

I have seen into the future, and it is clear. Compression springs are simply a fate that cannot be denied.

:)

Quick! To the Aircraft Spruce website, away with me! Anon comes the day with blue above with winds amiable to my designs, and I must sail!*

More seriously, the brain trust of Nieuport pilots is being slow to add their input, largely because their answer is "grass" and by the time they hit pavement they had a bunch of hours in their planes. None of the other Nieuports I've seen has springs on the cables!

That and I've not found the sweet spot for throttle control at take-off. They're spooling up more smoothly than I have (too slow the first time, too fast the second), and that's a big part of it.

And of course it's often hard to put into words what one does by feel.

Add in that every homebuilt is a one-off, so what is best on their airplane might not be the best in mine.

So my little Babette is grounded once again while I wait on parts. Not to say there isn't other things that need attention. The little tab of fabric over the inner right aileron hinge needs glued down, the brakes need some TLC, the ASI needs to find something other than a vacuum on the static tube (I moved it and got the opposite effect, gaining 10 mph), and there's always the gun that needs mounting.

Still, I'm totally jazzed at how the airplane turned out! Of all the issues to have to deal with, I'd pick the take off roll over all the others in the flight profile!

* I actually think this way most of the time.

wyoranch

05-25-2016, 08:22 AM

Frank,
I am not a taildragger pilot (therefore I am not a real pilot) so I am sure I will get beat up over this question, but is the issue on T/O the fact that the tail wheel does not have enough authority till the rudder does or is it the issue of the rudder not having enough bite by itself? Please be gentle with your answer, while I have a boatload of time in a lot of aircraft, I only have 5 hours total of taildragger time of which include only 2 takeoffs and two landings.
Rick
P.S. your video scared the stuffing out of me and I was 1500 miles from the airplane..... lol

Frank Giger

05-25-2016, 09:33 AM

Heck, I need to write this out so I can fully understand it!

The problem is the wheel and the rudder are fighting each other.

So with the wheel down on the pavement, it's sticking the plane in one direction and has a lot of authority, and does NOT want to give. So to maintain directional stability, the rudder has to be neutral. But the wheel needs that authority, as the rudder can't work until it gets enough air flow hitting it.

On grass this wouldn't be an issue, as the tail wheel could literally slide as one applied rudder. Heck, the mains can slide on the grass, giving one extra help - but on pavement that's not going to happen.

When the wheel comes up, it's the rudder's job to keep the plane straight - and it needs to be applied just right and Right Now. The problem, of course, it that it's binary in nature and instantaneous. We're people, though, so we can learn the skill. In a Champ on pavement I can do it without thinking; but then again, a Champ has springs on the tail wheel (more on that later).

Part of that is managing the acceleration to take off speed, of which I've done a poor job. The first flight I was too hesitant in accelerating the throttle and danced around the transition to flight, which put me up and over to the right edge of the runway. This last flight I did it waaayyy too quickly, and you saw the results. So it's clearly a smooth, constant acceleration using the throttle that is required (one of the Dawn Patrol guys guesstimated that it's about three or four seconds from idle to full).

With the wheel and rudder directly connected, right now there's no middle ground between them. What one does, so does the other. Heck, the control horns for both are pretty much the same size, so I don't get a break there, either.

So what I need is for the rudder to be able to be applied while the wheel does its thing. Enter in springs. It allows the rudder (which is directly connected to the pedal) to be moved and the tail wheel to keep doing what it's doing with much less pressure on it, giving one a grace period between the two. Now the rudder and wheel will be compromising with each other rather than at an impasse.

Or so I hope. One of the things not listed in the specs of the compression springs is the amount of tension required to compress them. Too much and it might as well be a direct connection. Too loose and it might make landings a bit more interesting than they should be.

Oh, and on the types of springs - there are two. First is the typical tension spring, like one finds on a screen door, with all the coils touching each other. The spring wants to be short and so pulls back when load is put on it. The problem with them is that they can stretch over time and lose their tension. The second is a compression spring, which wants to be long; its coils are spread apart, and resist being pulled together. They hold their strength longer than tension springs, and perform better at failure (or so I've read, though that may be propaganda put forth by Big Spring).

To be honest I wasn't scared in the least during the flight - I was actually more concerned on the landing! Part of that is the speed at which event were happening, but I could immediately see I had airspeed and acres of room to get her in the air and pointed the right way on my side, provided I didn't do anything sudden. That and the alternative of chopping the throttle and attempting to land on a rough unpaved slope down from the runway seemed ripe for disaster.

I invested almost all of my flying time doing touch-and-goes in a Champ - up, around, land, down to taxi speed, up, around, etc., knowing that they would be the critical skills required when the plane was built (and I became a pilot specifically to build and fly this aircraft). Yes, I did a bit of sight seeing and other stuff (loads of slow flight, ground reference maneuvers, etc.) because that's just fun! Indeed, I haven't bobbled a landing like the one in the video in a long time - I guess the observer rule counts when a camera is rolling - but I've also done my share of them and know how to work through a bounce (and when to hang it up and just go around).

[edit]

What makes these planes in particular sort of, well, particular is the short wheel base and the actual footprints of the wheels. The mains are only an inch and a quarter wide (each), and the tail wheel is two inches wide - the tail wheel has almost as much friction on the ground as the two mains combined! I may actually replace the tail wheel with a thinner one in the hopes of reducing it's grab.

wyoranch

05-25-2016, 10:25 AM

So the geometry between the rudder and the tailwheel are the same? I would thing that even with springs you would want exponentially more rudder movement than tailwheel (sorry if that is obvious to all of you).
Rick
P.S. I will stop hijacking this thread. I am just fascinated with all that goes into the plane AFTER it is built. I have never given much thught to that part of it.

Frank Giger

05-25-2016, 11:15 AM

One does want more rudder than wheel, but there's only so much one can design without getting crazy. Make the tail wheel horn longer and you'll get less movement of the wheel versus the rudder, but in my case they'd still be linked - the turn would be of a lesser degree, but I need more than that - I need the tail wheel cable to give and not turn at all when I apply rudder (at least initially).

You are correct that most build threads stop at the inspection, which always kind of irked me. In Dick Stark's books the build part is interesting only in the amusing stuff that happens around building - the real entertainment is in the flying of the aircraft.

That's one of the reasons I keep adding to this monster - to show that getting the pink slip, much like getting the little plastic pilot's card - just means that you now have a license to expand on the "recreation and education" part of building and flying the aircraft.

I'm probably the perfect guy for it, as I seem to have more than my fair share of glitches and things to work through than most. Heck, my carefully thought out (and written down) program, based on AC 90-89B, Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook is in tatters at this point, as it was just too ambitious. Who knows, though, once I get through Step One: Take Off of the active part of flight things might progress more quickly than what I laid out.

pittsdriver3

05-26-2016, 08:14 AM

Frank, I like to set up my tailwheels with a slight amount of slack in the springs. That allows the rudder to move a bit before turning the tailwheel. I also like the compression springs much better that tension. This also helps when you lift the tail off as again you are using more rudder for steering even with the tailwheel on the ground and you will get far less of a swing as the tail comes up. Don

Frank Giger

05-26-2016, 11:00 AM

Yep, gonna put some slack in them as well.

Frank Giger

05-28-2016, 04:10 PM

Springs on tail wheel!

I thought for a second that I might just be able to stick the compression spring on there and have it a little slack, but it was too much - the tail wheel didn't move at all!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw009.jpg

So I measured back seven inches from the thimble end of the cable, whipped out my Harbor Freight dremel type tool, stuck a cutting wheel on it and cut them. Digging through my pile o' parts, I found two - and just two - nicopress sleeves of the right size. So only one try with the go-no gauge on each.

The springs came with one long chain, so I cut it roughly in half and started dinking around with the correct lengths - I want a little slack between the wheel and rudder, with the rudder getting the play.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw010.jpg

I tested it out, and it looks like I get a little left rudder when the wheel cable snugs up; this is what I wanted. Taping the extra chain up (I don't want to trim it just yet), I went around the hangars at fast walking speed and I think this is just what I needed.

We'll see on the next attempt!*

I worked a bit on the left brake drum, slowly taking down some of it on about a quarter of the way around on the belt sander. It's much, much closer to round now and isn't making a thumping noise as the high spot goes through the brake band. I was getting a little anxious with shaving tiny amounts off and thinking of being more aggressive, so I stopped work. The brakes behaved much better on the taxi run as well, so I'm at the 90% solution there. I just didn't want to ruin the drum because I was getting tired of putting it on the plane, spinning the wheel, marking the drum, taking it off, running it on the sander, putting it on the plane....

The right drum runs pretty true but has a little squeak at the end when it's full stop. I think that just may be that everything is new. I'll look at it next time.

The last thing I did was trial fit my antenna extension, which is just a coax cable with fittings on both ends that go the handheld on one end and the rubber duck on the other. I put it on a fuselage tube just behind the seat, inverted to where it points downwards. I reckon it'll work much better than laying sideways in the seat next to me.

* I've made a rule for myself - I won't fly immediately after performing maintenance. That gives me a chance to look at what I've done with fresh eyes the next time around.

pittsdriver3

05-29-2016, 09:59 PM

Frank, That looks like a little too much slack. You want maybe 1/2" droop in the steering. Works well on RV's , Pitts, Supercub, Stinson and 140. Don

Frank Giger

05-29-2016, 11:35 PM

The slack is taken up when my feet are on the pedals, as I elected not to put springs on the forward parts of the pedals; I should have made that clearer in my writing!

Good eye, though!

Frank Giger

06-03-2016, 11:54 PM

I had a special visitor the other day, yet another friend from Florida!

The day he flew up it was too late for flying my Bebe, so I put him to work doing a bit of tinkering on some minor things.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/OG.jpg

Part of being ground crew is bearing witness when things go wrong and helping diagnose it. Note the leather combing around the cockpit, particularly the bit by his left shoulder; it figures pretty large into the tale of Test Flight #3.

The next day we were out at the airfield bright and early - CAVU with zero gusting to one winds - and we did the pre-flight and I taxied her out for a nice showy takeoff.

Initially it was straight forward, and the addition of the springs and chains to the tail wheel seemed to be just the trick I needed to keep stability. I applied left rudder, relaxed it a bit, and put in a little more.

Only I was stomping the left rudder cable and Jack Nothing was happening. At flying speed. And she was flying. To the right. Ghaaaa! I rolled the aircraft to the left, throttle to the stops, and brought her over the runway, leveling out the wings with the right rudder and ailerons.

A quick check and the rudder was responding left and right as it normally does.

"Um, I got a problem with my left rudder," I say over the radio.
"Roger," OG says over the handheld he has, "Copy you've got a problem with your rudder."

The initial plan was for me to shoot some go-arounds, floating the runway to find the perfect landing speeds without actually landing. But with a control issue, all that was out of the window - I needed to get her down.

Lining up was no problem, though I was a bit high and a bit fast. I two bounced her, realized I was just asking for trouble in trying to make a bad approach into a good one and went around. The rudder was responsive throughout, so I was cautiously optimistic that I was in jeopardy but not danger (if that makes sense).

I landed okay, but as I finished up with all three wheels on the ground and began to slow the left rudder stopped responding again. It was like the pedal wouldn't go down. The aircraft did a little half circle right at taxi speed; not enough to cause damage to aircraft, but enough to bugger up my bicycle wheel and flatten the tire.

Oh, hell, that's why I have spares. I taxied it back on a flat tire and a slightly warped wheel.

I started at the front of the left rudder control system. My rudder stop nut was loose and turning freely in my fingers. Nut out and thrown against the hangar wall with some bad words. The cable guide bushing at the front was back fully in the mount for it. I moved it forward, wondering if that might have caused the binding.

OG leans over the aircraft and says "Hey, what's that in the fuselage?"

I look back and see something black right against the left control cable for the tail wheel at the bushing that guides it over the fuselage tubing. I fetch my grabber tool and with OG guiding me, snatch it up.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/foam005.jpg

It's a piece of pipe insulation foam, the type I used to form the combing around the cockpit. I had put a small piece of it on the long piece that goes all the way around to give the combing a better silhouette.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/foam003.jpg

I must have knocked it out of the combing when I got in the aircraft and mucked about with the shoulder straps. It fell in exactly the wrong place to where it would sometimes pick up into the cable at that bushing, binding it - but when the rudder went the other way would pop out enough to allow free movement.

Another flight that day was out. Much to sort out.

I felt kind of bad that OG came all the way from Florida to see the plane fly and it turned out to be all screwy, but he knew it that I'm still very early on in the test flight program and handled it with grace.

Since it was a loss of a flight control system due to mechanical reasons, I self reported to NASA about it. I didn't violate any FAR's or anything, but the program is there to build a database of f--kups.

So this morning I went out to the airfield with the intention of just covering the spare wheel and dancing around the airplane, but was shocked to see there were absolutely no winds. Hmmmm, I worked off all the gigs from the last flight, might as well get back on the horse that threw me.

This was an easy video to make:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhSipKoOPLc

:cool:

martymayes

06-04-2016, 06:26 AM

Nice job on directional control Frank!! Could have remained over the runway even if were 2' narrower!!

Frank Giger

06-06-2016, 08:02 PM

My third flight with the bound rudder cable is this month's presentation at our monthly EAA meeting - might as well make something good of it.

Frank Giger

06-10-2016, 10:57 AM

Today's flight was remarkable only in that it was unremarkable.

;)

Takeoff was what should be normal - no hysterics - and I just flew around for a little less than an hour to monitor temps and pressures, as well as bringing along a little tablet to see what my ground speed was versus indicated.

Zero wind, and the GPS was indicating around 55 mph at cruise (about half throttle, straight and level with no adjustments required to keep it there) while the ASI read 70. It's not the static line, so either it's the crimp in the pitot tube or a bad ASI. Gonna replace the pitot tube next time up the airport.

What surprised me was oil temperatures. It only got up to 180 and stayed pegged there at cruise, dropping when I throttled back to get into the pattern. I guess my baffling and huge oil cooler are doing their jobs (ambient temp was 85 degrees).

On the ground the oil temp sensor is out of the oil, so naturally it went to zero pretty quickly.

Landing was gloriously uneventful. I floated her long down the runway, let the mains kiss the pavement, pulled the throttle back and let the tail come down naturally.

I'm going to validate the weather forecast for tomorrow and maybe commit some more aviation - she's such a forgiving aircraft and a honey to fly!

No video, as I moved the camera to face the instrument panel. Nothing exciting about that!

wyoranch

06-10-2016, 12:01 PM

Frank,
This me be premature, but do you find the plane to be what you expected/wanted? The reason I ask is I am absolutely in love with Nieuport, and my trip to OSH this year is with the intent to finalize my project decision. I have yet to see a two seater to get some time in. Lol
I guess more appropriately, you overall experience with support, ease of build, flying experience etc....
Thanks for your time.
Rick

Frank Giger

06-10-2016, 12:47 PM

I am becoming more enamoured with the aircraft at each flight - she's really surpassed my expectations.

While at times it's felt like I was having to learn to fly all over again in regards to the take off, the rest of the flight profile matches what I wanted and then some.

What I wanted was a very stable, well behaved aircraft in the air that I can cruise at a low speed over field and dale in very good weather for an hour or so, admiring cows and how the sun sparkles on the river. I wanted a dead simple aircraft to maintain as well.

With that mission in mind, it's a perfect match for me. Today I did some turns, up to 30 degrees, and she went through them as if on rails. Ground reference maneuvers were like cheating - though I had to recalibrate my thinking on distances owing to speed. If one wants to do turn about a point, get a little closer or it's a long way around and a very gentle turn.

She doesn't climb particularly fast, but I'm not really pushing for best speeds quite yet - but with the low stall and take off speeds the amount of room required to clear a 500 foot obstacle isn't very far.

Descents, however, are as simple as gently retarding the throttle. The plane is a huge exercise in drag, and the glide angle resembles a rock. If I ever get an engine out I'll be looking at whatever is right below me (much like the ultralight guys do).

I've pretty much greased two landings - my first and this last one. Both times it was under power and flying all the way down, letting the mains kiss the pavement, and then pulling power. A bit different from just chopping the throttle and gliding her down to a three pointer in a Champ, that's for sure.

As for building the aircraft, if it wasn't tube-and-gusset using pop rivets I wouldn't have even attempted it. There are a few skills one must acquire (like annealing), but in the main if one can drill a hole, put a rivet in the hole, put a rivet gun on the rivet and pull the trigger than 50% of it is done. The rest is figuring out the plans and which holes to drill in which order. :)

Bear in mind my aircraft won't win any awards. I wasn't aiming for perfection or historical accuracy. I just wanted it to be built in accordance with the plans and safe. Pretty was rarely a consideration, though I think she came out looking pretty good. I didn't re-do very many parts of the plane - if it was within tolerance and otherwise okay, it stayed as it was.

[edit]

On support:

Besides the usual builder's groups, Robert Baslee is fantastic at giving instruction, advice, and otherwise helpful observations - he answers his phone and 99.9% of the time can give an answer on the spot. For a guy with multiple degrees in engineering and design he has the ability to convey what he wants to say in simple terms. In my case, very simple terms. He speaks "doohicky" pretty good. ;)

jdanneel

06-11-2016, 03:09 AM

what will be your project for next winter ?? we need somebody to tell us stories .

thanks again for the massive info shared !!!

johan

Frank Giger

06-11-2016, 06:09 AM

Winter flying, of course!

While it was informative to put the GoPro on a chest harness, I won't be wearing it like that again - between it and the shoulder harness I'm a bit achy this morning.

I forgot I promised to carry the wife around on some errands this morning, so I'll have to wait until to tomorrow to fly again. I'm now getting closer to getting back on track in the test program I laid out, and confident enough to go further afield.

One of the neat things was that after yesterday's flight a fellow showed up to the airport and said my plane looked and sounded really good as I flew over his house. This validated a theory I had that being really exact on the paint scheme wasn't all that important, as from a distance a lot of sins are forgiven!

rwanttaja

06-11-2016, 10:48 AM

Winter flying, of course!

What do you have to do different for open-cockpit winter flying in Alabama...wear socks?

One of the neat things was that after yesterday's flight a fellow showed up to the airport and said my plane looked and sounded really good as I flew over his house. This validated a theory I had that being really exact on the paint scheme wasn't all that important, as from a distance a lot of sins are forgiven!

Start doing Google Image searches on your N-Number, or on key phases like "Biplane in XXXX Alabama". A lot of groundlings take pictures of interesting airplanes and post them to social media. I've found some great action shots of my airplane that way.
http://farm9.static.flickr.com/8885/18721761966_8e591bcf0d.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/242/519094111_dfacb6a18b.jpg

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

06-11-2016, 05:11 PM

Weather jokes coming from a guy who lives where one can tell the "seasons" by whether the locals are wearing shorts or long pants with their sweatshirts.

:)

And I'll need to fly a bit more out of the pattern for people to take pictures of my plane.

Heck, I need to find someone with a decent camera (or knows how to use one so I can lend them mine) to take pictures of her landing and in flight. While it was very, very, very low on their priority list of things to do as ground support, none of my helpers managed to record a single thing.

rwanttaja

06-11-2016, 06:31 PM

Weather jokes coming from a guy who lives where one can tell the "seasons" by whether the locals are wearing shorts or long pants with their sweatshirts.
Which reminds me, it's time to switch from wool to rayon socks with my sandals.

And I'll need to fly a bit more out of the pattern for people to take pictures of my plane.
Both those nice pictures of my Fly Baby were taken on final at a local airport. There's some planespotters out there with biiiiiig llenses.

Heck, I need to find someone with a decent camera (or knows how to use one so I can lend them mine) to take pictures of her landing and in flight. While it was very, very, very low on their priority list of things to do as ground support, none of my helpers managed to record a single thing.

Every year, I publish a calendar of Fly Baby pictures. I once sent some advice for the guys, on how to take good pictures of their airplanes even without arranging air-to-air:

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/flybabylist/conversations/messages/6326

Ron Wanttaja

pittsdriver3

06-12-2016, 06:16 AM

Ron is it true you wear black calf high socks with sandals? Don

rwanttaja

06-12-2016, 09:35 AM

Ron is it true you wear black calf high socks with sandals? Don

Only during formal occasions. :-)

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

06-12-2016, 03:45 PM

Hey, my first (gentle) crosswind landing, as well as a little turbulence.

http://youtu.be/yO_MAgTKZ68

:)

planecrazzzy

06-12-2016, 07:52 PM

Way ta go Frank !
Looking very fun.
Gotta Fly...

Frank Giger

06-12-2016, 08:46 PM

:)

Today was a sort of calculated risk.

Last flight went really well in zero wind conditions, with the engine never going above 180 degrees (ambient temp was 85 and 90) and running really well for 45 minutes. The ASI is garbage, but I tabled that issue for the moment.*

The forecast was to be zero-zero with CAVU this morning, but it wasn't so. Wind was 2 kts gusting to 4 when I took off and about 3-4 on landing; I had intended to keep to zero-zero for the next few flights. As you can see, I violated my plan - but the weather was well within both the plane and my own abilities and I gotta fly in a little bit of wind sometime. No big surprise it turned to a crosswind - it always turns into a crosswind, though only about 35 degrees.

The unexpected bit was just how sensitive the aircraft is to thermals and bumps. Not in a OH CRAP sort of way, but one feels them a lot more than in a Champ. The upside is she's really stable and still responsive at the same time; I caught a nasty little gust on final (as I'm sure was noticed) but it was easily dealt with. The key is to land under power, and to do wheel landings.

On that big ol' runway I contemplated landing across it diagonally, and in fact finished up my landing that way, just pointing a bit in the wind.

I'm going to do another hour or so of just flying around and doing some turns before contemplating slow flight and stalls.

Frank Giger

06-20-2016, 01:25 PM

Went around for about an hour this morning!

While the wind was fairly mild - three miles per hour, gusting to five - I got a late start and went up into the air just before 9:00 a.m., which meant that it was thermal time. I spent an hour getting pushed around by the air, including a few shoves.

I was really struggling between just grooving on flying the aircraft and grinning and frowning at turbulence....but the joy of flight won over (as it always seems to do).

The other thing I did a bit different today was having the fuel tank almost full - about ten gallons. It shifts the CG forward enough to where one can feel it, and with the extra weight my takeoff was a bit longer than usual, as was my landing (both were accomplished to where there wasn't anything to write about them).

The funny thing was that with the turbulence the cork of the fuel gauge cap jumped up enough to push it almost out of the tank. Add item number 1,342 to the fine tuning list to put a chain or strap on it. Naturally it slid back down into the tank neck as I was lining up on final.

Sometimes my airplane can be such a clown like that.

No video, as the mount on the spar was a bit loose and the camera shimmied in the wind most of the time - and I don't want to share video that is filmed in PukeVision; it's much worse than SpazVision of the head strap.

Frank Giger

06-27-2016, 08:40 PM

Going over the aircraft from prop to rudder the other day I noticed my axle is slightly bent, and after pulling it confirmed that it's off true. Not much, about an inch sway in the center curving to the ends.

Spoke to Robert Baslee today and he gave me the specs for the axle - 1 1/4" x 0.58 of 4130 steel, and recommended that I stick with it.

He said I could go to 0.83 thickness, but that's as thick as I should go, saying "you want the axle to bend and not break."

We had a long conversation about bungees - he thinks I have them too tight (they really didn't move) and that they "weld" the gear in place - and that it's a sort of art to finding the right amount of tension....with some descriptions of play when it's right.

I ordered both thicknesses of tubing; I'll put the thinner stuff on as a replacement and keep the thicker in reserve if I bend the new one.

Frank Giger

07-02-2016, 10:11 AM

While I wait for the new axle to show up, I goofed around this morning on Google Earth and found they captured what was most likely the rigging process:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/house_w_plane.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/house_w_plane02.jpg

Kinda defines "home built." :)

Frank Giger

07-05-2016, 04:51 PM

My replacement 4130 steel tube axles came in and my son, curious, looked inside the triangular package from Aircraft Spruce to see what it was.

"You ordered pipes by mail," he said, incredulous, "weird."

:)

Frank Giger

07-09-2016, 07:46 PM

Axle replaced and the bungees adjusted to what I think is going to work pretty good.

If I stand on the gear, the bungees give about a quarter inch. I figure that's enough to limit bending the axle without making ground handling an adventure.

Naturally the weather turned to crap, so no flying.

deftone

07-09-2016, 07:56 PM

Sounds like the fun stuff is just beginning!

I just put in my order for my Nieuport 17 kits, so I hope I have as much fun as you seem to be have had with the build process. I enjoyed this project thread and being reasonably close hopefully will see your bird sometime!

Frank Giger

07-10-2016, 10:19 AM

Any time you're in the Birmingham area let me know and we'll meet at the hangar!

Much like getting one's pilot permit, getting the pink slip on the completed airplane is just a license to learn.

Frank Giger

07-12-2016, 04:32 PM

Video of today's flight, which was just a run around the patch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfaj7EDDVw0

The camera was pointed backwards so I can see just what the heck is exactly going on back there - how much rudder versus wheel with the springs, etc.

I was up at the airfield at 0600, hoping to catch the predicted one mile an hour winds and partly cloudy skies. I found overcast and a 1200 foot ceiling that dropped to 500.

It finally broke up at around 1030, but it went along with a jump in temperature, so I was getting "variable" gusts and thermals as soon as I took off. I suppose I could have muscled through the turbulence, but I was getting grumpy at having to wait to fly and just decided to come about and land.

Video is a good tool for figuring stuff out after the fact, that's for sure.

CloudAhoy said my climb rate was between 350 and 400 feet per minute (I wasn't exactly flying a precision profile), which is okay, I reckon.

A few side notes:

Yes, I was in fact smiling on take off. And no, I was most definitely not smiling on final.

Yes, I know I need to run the goggle strap under the head set. At least my underwear were under my pants!

jdanneel

07-13-2016, 03:53 AM

It reminds me of some other American who had a passion for aviation and started making movies ...

rwanttaja

07-13-2016, 08:42 AM

Video of today's flight, which was just a run around the patch:
"Dart"?

Ron "Wojo" Wanttaja

Frank Giger

07-13-2016, 10:50 AM

It's actually funny.

When I first started flying sims online, I wasn't exactly the best at it. Most often in simulated combat I'd wind up either getting shot down or spinning out. I made a comment over comms that I was doing another "dirt dart" when asked how things were going and the tag stuck.

I've used that nickname online for so long that when I was at Gardener a few years ago someone called out for me by it and I actually responded to it.

"Dirt Darts" are what we used to call anything that helicopter pilots would punch in flight during sling load operations if they began to produce oscillations. Seeing a 155 towed howitzer punched from 1,000 feet AGL is something to behold.

Frank Giger

07-17-2016, 08:15 PM

First slips today. Wowser, she'll slip right down onto a pie plate if one really cranks it - which I in all honesty didn't. I just wanted to see what it felt like, and I'm at that part of my testing program. Pretty soon I'll hit my milestone for stalls.

One of the camlocks for the cowl at the bottom came loose and I kept hearing a buzzing noise from it in flight. No way to know what it was, and at 2,000 feet AGL I couldn't exactly jump out and see what it was. The plane was flying great otherwise, so I just headed back to the barn to figure out what it was. Since I went a little camlock happy (I have two more than most folks do) there was no danger of the cowl coming off, but from now on I'll be triple checking them as part of pre-flight.

I'm just going to have to accept sensitivity to turbulence as par for the course in this plane. Today wasn't bad - just a little nudge here and there to keep me honest, not like the last flight where I was getting punched - and I really enjoyed going around.

I also got closer to nailing down my fuel useage. Looks like 3.5 gallons or so an hour. That gives me a solid half hour reserve if the bobber hits the bottom, which is what I wanted, as I marked my stick at about a half gallon above the reserve neck of the tank as "empty."

Still working out approach speeds, bringing it down bit by bit. I've sorted out that my stall speed is around 35 mph, but I'm a cautious fellow and using a bunch of that humongerous runway to float down for landings. While I prided myself in sticking three pointers in a Champ, my little Babette just whispers in a firm voice "wheel landings, my love" on final. Speaking of which, here at the ten hour mark I feel like the plane and I are really speaking the same language to each other, and while I never felt uncomfortable behind the stick, it's becoming even more of a pleasure.

The only thing I have to watch is the old warning about free-flying rudders: she'll enter into a slip little by little, so gently that one won't catch what's going on by feel alone. The tendency is to adjust for the roll with the aileron in the opposite direction with a tiny bit of pressure....cross controlling is a bad thing (or so I read in a book once), and a glance a the ball every minute or so is now rote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXVZWTZLXWs&feature=youtu.be

Oh, and an interesting thing happened post-flight. A couple came over to the hangar as I was doing my grinning walk around; they had seen me flying about and drove out the airport to watch my plane! Somebody actually wanted to see my plane flying, come in for a landing, and then see it - weird. Either it's neater than even I thought it was or they saw previous videos of my test flights and were looking to see a wreck!

:cool:

Sam Buchanan

07-18-2016, 08:37 AM

Frank,

Something you might explore as you are sorting out approaches is a steep, power-off (or low power) approach. Like you, my first landings were shallow, flat approaches because the Fokker D.VII has no flaps. This works well for greasing on a wheel landing but does eat up runway if speed isn't carefully controlled.

In the course of practicing engine-out landings (you are doing that I hope) and exploring best glide speeds I've confirmed the Fokker has a steep glide with the engine near idle speed. In other words, if the fan quits the landing is going to occur very near the present location (I noticed your flight over large areas of trees....). The flip side of this 'poor' glide performance is how it allows steep approaches with power reduced. Hold pattern altitude until a short distance from the runway, then pull power, point the nose down, and glide (in my case 45-50 mph) at a steep angle toward the threshold. When over the numbers add a bit of power to break the glide and land....right there. Using the inherent drag of our planes is how we work around the absence of flaps. This steep approach can be enhanced with a slip to landing for an aggressive short field landing which is a good skill to have if landing unintentionally. It can happen...... :)

Glad you are enjoying your new plane!

Frank Giger

07-18-2016, 09:22 AM

All my power off stuff is at altitude at this point - and you're right, it's a steep glide angle, or at least feels like it. Dumping altitude isn't a problem at all - she slips like a dream.

While the camera makes it look like I'm cornering myself over trees at some points, I'm always careful to ensure there's a landing spot handy - looking left, right, and keeping in mind what I've just crossed over at all times. Of course I mentally slapped my forehead when following the long tree-free area towards Pell City, and wrote it off as a landing area - high power tension lines don't make for good approaches and landings.

The first area I flew to is my designated "try stuff" zone, as it's a huge area of flat fields (well, less bumpy than trees, anyway). That's why I did my first real slips there, and where I'll do slow flight and stalls.

I'm generally a boring kind of pilot, favoring gentle turns and mild flight profiles. The aircraft doesn't mind steep turns or steep climbs, and has tremendous engine response in regaining airspeed. Culver Props sure cut me a good one; I had left it in their hands for pitch as they cut the props for the KC Dawn Patrol's Nieuport 11's and almost all of the other Airdrome Aeroplanes...Aliana was just about giggling when we started talking props and I asked for and got her recommendations (as well as being vague on finish, saying "just make it pretty like all the others I've seen from y'all."), as there are a lot of experts out there who sometimes lecture her about prop making.

On flaps: I hate 'em. In the FlightDesign CTLS they don't really help at all, just making it even more squirrelly, and of course the Champ didn't have any. When I did my biannual flight review it was in a C172, and the CFI is a wise old pilot and allowed me to land flaps up, as I'm not well versed in either the C172 or flaps in general.

rwanttaja

07-18-2016, 10:51 AM

In the course of practicing engine-out landings (you are doing that I hope) and exploring best glide speeds I've confirmed the Fokker has a steep glide with the engine near idle speed. In other words, if the fan quits the landing is going to occur very near the present location...
The phrase I use in the Fly Baby is, "If the engine quits, throw out a brick and fly formation with it."

I tend to fly all approaches power-off just from the training point of view; if the fan ever stops for real, I want to be accustomed to the way it drops. I come in high, of course, and slip it down when the field is assured. Comes down like a shotgunned duck. Suspect the Nieuport (being lighter) is even steeper.

One anecdote: Several years ago, the A&P during my Giger remarked that my Continental's idle was a bit high. He asked if I wanted it cut back to spec, and I shrugged and said "sure."

Took a bit to become used to it... I'd had ~15 years of experience landing that plane with a tad bit of power on it. The reduction in idle speed made a noticeable difference in the "power off" glide.

Ron Wanttaja

Sam Buchanan

07-18-2016, 01:42 PM

if the fan ever stops for real, I want to be accustomed to the way it drops.

The steepness of the descent can be startling to the pilot who has never experienced the way a high-drag, low-mass aircraft "glides". The windscreen is filled with terra firma and the pilot must stay on speed and resist the impulse to raise the nose. Pilots with experience only in heavier aircraft have come to grief when they raised the nose to "stretch" the glide and used up all the airspeed....

There is no reason to dislike flaps, they are a control surface same as elevators and ailerons. Learn to use them and appreciate the way they can expand the flight envelope. :)

rwanttaja

07-18-2016, 01:50 PM

The steepness of the descent can be startling to the pilot who has never experienced the way a high-drag, low-mass aircraft "glides".

"Notice that they do not so much fly as...plummet. "
- Monty Python's Flying Circus

Ron "Baaaaaa" Wanttaja

Frank Giger

07-19-2016, 10:28 AM

:D

I wanted to thank y'all for your input first and foremost!

The whole reason for continuing the thread on the aircraft into flight testing is to hear from the voices of experience; it's one thing to draw up a plan on paper and quite another to execute the primary steps in a prudent manner.

I'm taking the approach to testing the same way I did the build - it's done when it's done, and slowing down the process when unsure exactly how to proceed is the best course of action.

Indeed, I'm now (at ten hours) at the Confidence in General Flight stage, where I know how she acts overall in the fundamentals - takeoff, turns, climbs and descents - and so I can work on other steps.

I've done some power off glides, of course, but not extensively. The most striking thing is with a high drag aircraft like this is the feeling that a giant hand has just grabbed the entire aircraft to slow it down all at once.

Determining best glide has me scratching my head when it comes to the science. I know what feels right - somewhere around 45 mph IAS (1.3 Vso, based on a 35 mph stall speed, which might be a high guess) - but I'm unsure on how to validate that.

I do know one thing - stretching the glide is a fool's errand in large part with my Bebe - so being fully aware of landing spots in all directions is key to flight.

Sam Buchanan

07-19-2016, 10:42 AM

Determining best glide has me scratching my head when it comes to the science. I know what feels right - somewhere around 45 mph IAS (1.3 Vso, based on a 35 mph stall speed, which might be a high guess) - but I'm unsure on how to validate that.

I do know one thing - stretching the glide is a fool's errand in large part with my Bebe - so being fully aware of landing spots in all directions is key to flight.

Frank, one method I've used to get a handle on glide speeds, and this is admittedly more practical than scientific, is use the long runway we both have at our home airports. This needs to be done in calm or very low wind conditions if possible.

Set a target altitude and speed for the tests, for example, 400' AGL @ typical cruise speed. Approach the runway threshold in level flight at your target altitude and chop the power just as you reach the end of the pavement at the threshold. Immediately assume the first of the airspeeds you wish to test, say 45mph. Descend to a landing with no power (this may take a little practice) and take note of where on the runway the landing occurred. Repeat the test at various glide airspeeds, always beginning at the same altitude and cruise speed and cutting power at the end of the runway.

As a bonus, you will be pleased to note how much more consistent your landings become after this exercise. :)

After you have explored several speeds, you can look at the runway markings on Google Earth to determine how far down the runway the landings occurred. This not only gives you a good idea of the best glide speed for maximum distance, but you can calculate descent rate using the time stamp on your video camera. If you still have a lot of unused runway in your tests, you can repeat at a higher target altitude, maybe even your customary cruise altitude.

If you really want to explore the envelope, run the test with the aircraft flying in the opposite direction of the landing runway and offset a couple hundred yards. Flying a descending 180 turn will probably be closer to what you would encounter in an actual unplanned landing.

Maybe this will give you some ideas for running real-world tests of glide speed. Once you have done this, you can draw the mental cone around your aircraft to determine where you could land in case of emergency. Be sure you allow for at least 180* of maneuvering in establishing the cone.

The base of the cone will be very small. :eek:

Dana

07-19-2016, 05:10 PM

Frank, take a look at a program called GPLIGC (Google it; I'm away from home without my bookmarks. With a GPS receiver with a pressure altimeter (I use a Garmin 60Csx but there are other options), you can run the GPS track into GPLIGC and get a plot that you can analyze for climb and decent angles, etc. It's intended to analyze sailplane performance but it works great for powered planes, too.

Frank Giger

07-22-2016, 08:30 PM

I'll take a look - thanks for the advice!

Right now I'm using CloudAhoy, which is just mindboggling in how simple it is to use and the information it gathers and spits back out - 3D flight track, TAS and IAS based on GPS track and wind reports from local stations, plus wind itself on the route, etc.

The bad of it is that if I ever do something wrong there's a pretty definitive record of it. Heck, it knows if you landed off of the center line and how much by!

Fun flying today! Winds were light and variable, bumps were tolerable, and I just had a ball.

Did some Thottle Back stuff; woof, there's a lot of terrain filling up one's view to keep reasonable airspeed - it's like a big hand just grabs the plane from behind. I did it a couple times feeling out glide angles and it's actually not as scary as I thought it might be - the cone isn't as tight as I though. Did a 180 as well to see how much altitude was lost and that wasn't really all that bad compared to a straight glide. One just has to realize that when committing to a landing spot, commit to it and if there are two of equal okay-ness, pick the closer one.

And, as always, altitude is one's friend.

I also did my first cross country flight in the Nieuport! I was tooling about and realized two things: I was really close to Pell City (PLR) and I was getting a bit barn broke to my home airfield. So I landed pretty crappy, trying for a sharper angle and a three pointer, but it was at the far end and nobody saw it. Taxi up, park next to all the CAP planes that were there for check ride training tomorrow, and walk in. I learned to fly at Pell City (okay, St. Claire County), and it was familiar ground, so to speak.

What I didn't expect was the warm reception from actual people at that airport. I had forgotten that pilots actually hang out there and talk to each other (Talladega is a fine airport, but a ghost town). So my fifteen minute bio-break and stretch took an hour of folks swapping stories and looking over my airplane.

It came time to take off and I realized two things:

1) The winds favored taking off at the end by the FBO.

2) There were six folks grinning from either the ramp or the air conditioning of the FBO. I figured the two taking shade under the wings of the CAP C172 were the Russian judge types.

Might as well get it over with. I can always just avoid coming back for a few months if I make adventurous looking, and so with a shrug I advanced the throttle AND DID A PERFECT STRAIGHT ON TAKE OFF. No rudder swish, she just smoothly walked up into the air.

:D

That's the sign of both a great woman and a fine airplane - she'll give you hell one on one, but when there's people watching she'll back you to the hilt.

Did a fine wheel landing with a steeper approach at my home airport and put her up.

And noticed that I hadn't actually turned the cameras on to record.

:rollseyes:

Frank Giger

07-29-2016, 06:08 PM

In my last post-flight inspection I found the engine baffling in the front was rubbing the cowl in such a way that the cowl started to crack upwards from the contact point.

And the tail wheel once again was loose from the mount, flopping from one side of the wheel to the other.

:mad:

So I had my son drive me up to the hangar in his truck "just to get out of the house," with his rote admonishment that he would do zero work on the aircraft before accepting to carry me.

His barely concealed secret fear is that he would do something wrong that would result in a crash has been pretty firm in this matter.

So I drilled some stop holes at the ends of the half inch long cracks and made up some patches to rivet over them - one of the advantages to a Nieuport 11 cowl is that one ends up with a third of the starting bowl as scrap - to go over them.

To my surprise there stands my son with the drill in his hand when I say I want to hole the patches first, then align and place them before drilling the cowl. I guess he figured it's non-structural enough to be safe to do.

So he drills the patch and after I place them, drill the first hole, rivet it to keep it in place, he offers to drill and rivet the rest of them!

:cool:

The rivet lines aren't exactly perfect, but why should I change the standard of craftsmanship that has made the aircraft airworthy now?

We notched the baffling where it was hitting the cowl to where it isn't any more. I'm not too worried about it, as I'm way ahead of the cooling curve with my engine, and the gap is right at the front.

On the tail wheel, I had something of an epiphany. Robert had put the bolt in with the head on top and the nut on the bottom. The problem is that because the tail of the bolt is downwards, it has be short to clear the wheel, and working the wheel is loosening the nut, even with washers.

There is no reason I can see where it has to be that way. I got a longer bolt and placed it nut side up with two washers on both ends of the mount. Now the tail wheel mount rotates without the bolt or the nut rotating with it.

I'll see if it works out okay while I come up with a new design for the assembly.

Frank Giger

07-31-2016, 12:34 PM

My Nieuport 11 - now with 70% more gun.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gun001.jpg

The supports from the front bottom mounting points to the slip ring at the front of the receiver have to be measured and cut, the mounting bolts need trimmed, etc., but it's coming together in a solid mount.

I'd of kept going, but I'd been dinking around with the gun and some other stuff on the aircraft for four hours and was starting to wilt.

Pity, it was starting to cool off:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/hot.jpg

Frank Giger

08-06-2016, 09:00 PM

A little show and tell:

So here's the gun mounted with some trimming and painting to do - hopefully it'll be more difficult to explain what I did after the finishing touches are done!

In the front, the all-thread bolts run through the leading edge material just behind the spar, reinforced by an aluminum strip.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gun003.jpg

There are four supports on these bolts - two up to the barrel, which is easy to see, and two that run to the bolt that runs through the center section in the rear.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gun002.jpg

The whole thing seems pretty solid, and hopefully the weather will cooperate tomorrow morning and I can put some wind on it. The reason these are indoor shots is due to rain just outside the hangar.

Next up is that cowl repair:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/cowl012.jpg

The split behind the plate there was stop-drilled and this is the cover...there's a matching one on the other side. I also cut the baffling back to where it's not hitting the cowl in the front even a little.

Also, sigh. Somewhere along the last few times with the airplane I put a little rip in the fabric on the right fuselage near the bottom. So that got a patch. I don't mind doing fabric repairs, but I'd love to know how it got there in the first place.

Frank Giger

08-08-2016, 10:24 AM

A few flying notes:

My rate of climb seemed a bit wimpy yesterday. Nothing in the "golly gee maybe I ought to land" range and the engine was doing everything it's supposed to, but it was a bit lazy.

Take offs were some of the best yet - I've found the correct amount of up elevator to get her to step into the air rather than leaping - but my landings were kind of wonky. Usually it's the reverse, of course, where I swish it around going up and walk it onto the pavement going down.

More vexing was the fact that I've also found a better approach and angle from my super shallow technique, dipping back to what I used to do in the Champ. It's more a large curving descent than to turns on a box, with "large" more in line with the short Champ pattern.

So instead of kissing the pavement with a main and settling the tail down in a straight forward manner I was tapping the main and getting a minor bounce, which had me setting up for another try and a little bounce. I wound up going around at Pell City just to eliminate the frustration factor and keep from "fixing" the problem with a ground loop. I managed to work through it by putting her into three point position and dancing between the three wheels.

On a hunch I tuned back to the airport weather station (which I had hit to confirm wind direction when approaching the field) and the answer made me laugh.

...density altitude three thousand two hundred feet... the computer man said. Quite a bit of difference from the 480 above sea level actual.

The way to my home field was long as I just did some field survey and the landing was much better, though a bit bouncy. I write that off to the collection of people outside the FBO waiting on a charter flight and watching more than anything else, though.

I'm my own worst critic, of course. One of the pilots on the field said my landing looked good before I could apologize for being crappy.

Frank Giger

08-19-2016, 05:57 PM

Small setback in the flight test program:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/oops.jpg

cub builder

08-19-2016, 08:15 PM

Damn Frank. That's gonna take a few days to patch. But it's only a minor setback.

-Cub Builder

Floatsflyer

08-19-2016, 08:23 PM

The fact that you posted the "setback" means you're OK and that's all that matters. When you're up to it, we'd all like to know what happened.

Dana

08-19-2016, 08:42 PM

Yikes?

I see tall grass, not a maintained runway, so I'm guessing engine trouble put you there?

wyoranch

08-19-2016, 09:20 PM

Frank,
First and foremost, i hope you are ok. Secondly, I hope you are ok. Thirdly, I am sure you will get her patched up and back in the air soon.
Rick

rwanttaja

08-19-2016, 10:01 PM

Aw, crap.

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

08-19-2016, 11:54 PM

Okay, so the Who Shot Robbin of the affair.

As y'all might recall, my brakes were so loose that they weren't doing anything at all. It wasn't a big deal, but I'd kind of like the brakes to actually stop the aircraft from the taxi.

So I adjusted them to where the wheels rotated freely and the band brakes rubbed the drums when the handle is pulled. Did some slow taxi and they worked good. Did a stop at the yellow line for a control check and they did good.

Lined up on the runway to take off and just at lift off speed they locked up. Lovely skid marks on the dark black pavement of the runway. I chopped throttle and wrestled the aircraft as best I could as she went left, rolled past the short cut grass of the landing light area, and onto the super uncut grass just past them. That knee high grass acted just like a chock block and up and over she went. I'm standing on the short grass when I took that picture.

The only injury I sustained other than a couple scrapes when I kicked the bottom of the fuel tank was after the wreck. I was suspended upside down by the harness, put my hand up, hit the quick release, and landed straight on my head. So a little bit of a sore neck.

Some DoT guys were working on the lights or something down on that end and helped me flip her back over on the gear. I grabbed a spare wheel from the hangar, replaced the taco, and we pulled it back to the hangar using the super golf cart.

Initial inspection shows the upper left wing front spar is tweaked, the lower right wing spar is tweaked, the rudder got a dent on the upper bow, one of the gear legs cracked, and the front gear support bent. My center section between the two upper wings crumpled, but the gun is okay.*

Prop is trash, and one of my EAA brothers is going to show me how to tear down the VW engine and check for damage - which is what I'm most concerned about.

A Council of the Nieuport Brotherhood, Giger Inspection Division, seems to think that the bands were in fact rubbing, and as they heated up the drums expanded and the bands gripped hard. I dunno, gonna have to completely rethink my brake setup.

This weekend I'm pulling off the wings, stripping the fabric, and giving them and the carry throughs and cabanes close inspection. If it's just the aluminum tube spars I'm in great shape as far as that goes. Pop rivets FTW.

Then take the prop and engine off the plane. The prop gets put into a nice display case for the wall and as I mentioned, the engine gets taken apart. Rotating the prop, it feels okay, and consensus is that it's probably okay.

* I caused a bit of a conversation about using industrial velcro to hold the center section to the wings. Incredibly, the top sheet of the center section bowed inwards around the gun and the velcro held.

cub builder

08-20-2016, 09:21 AM

The only injury I sustained other than a couple scrapes when I kicked the bottom of the fuel tank was after the wreck. I was suspended upside down by the harness, put my hand up, hit the quick release, and landed straight on my head. So a little bit of a sore neck.

Common injury when you end up upside down. Some have broken their necks in just that fashion. Next time you'll know to lead with your hand instead of your head. You'll leave a smaller dent in the ground. ;)

A Council of the Nieuport Brotherhood, Giger Inspection Division, seems to think that the bands were in fact rubbing, and as they heated up the drums expanded and the bands gripped hard. I dunno, gonna have to completely rethink my brake setup.

Absolutely agree with the assessment of heating and expansion causing the brakes to lock. Since you mentioned the brake adjustment in your explanation, I suspect you also concur.

-Cub Builder

Frank Giger

08-30-2016, 02:48 PM

I'm ditching the band brakes - every single one of my mechanical problems (excepting putting springs on the tail wheel) have been with the damned brakes. I'm going to come up with a disk brake system.

Repairs must be going forward, as money is starting to flow. 450 for a new prop. 200 for fabric and glue. I've got to double check the specs on the spars, but I can get them locally.

Tomorrow is the engine check. Fingers crossed.

Floatsflyer

08-30-2016, 03:21 PM

Good luck Frank, all the best with the repairs. Was the aircraft insured?

Frank Giger

09-30-2016, 09:36 PM

Okay, so let's summarize the damage:

Prop:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/prop_broke.jpg

Gear:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gear_broke.jpg

Left upper wing:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/luw_broke001.jpg

Right lower wing:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_broke001.jpg

Bonk to the rudder:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rudder_broke.jpg

So, order a new prop, buy a decent dial meter for the engine, get some oval tubing from Robert for the gear, strip the two wings, replace the spars, strip, un-bonk the rudder, recover, paint, write it all up in the logs, and take back up into the air.

Frank Giger

09-30-2016, 09:49 PM

Now that's it's two degrees cooler than Hell, let's get to work!

First up, the good news! The engine dialed out at .009, and turned over fine without plugs in (in case there was oil in the cylinders), and then gave a brief bark of life when they were put back in. Since I drained the oil I didn't let her run.

I'll mount the prop once the gear is repaired and see if it tracks okay. If not, well, gonna have to tear it down. Oil was clean, though, so fingers crossed.

Anyhow, let's get on with stripping that lower wing! For those who have never had the life experience of skinning a catfish, well the starter version of that is pulling fabric off of a wing! It even feels like catfish skin!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair001.jpg

It was simple as could be, after I drilled out the rib stitching rivets, sliced along the inside edge of leading edge, and just peeled it down over the rear bow, worked it down the leading edge, and off.

Fabric is a kind of leathery stuff and folded up nicely.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair002.jpg

Drill rivets, drill more rivets, and then some more and the leading edge comes off. The wing is great shape over all, but it's not hard to see where the bend is, just at the compression strut.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair003.jpg

So my plan to detach the ribs, cut the drag/anti-drag wires, pull off the spar, make identical holes in the new spar, slide it in, lock it down, put the leading edge back on, cover and paint looks doable.

Other great news - guess what came in the mail today!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/New_prop.jpg

I think it looks even better than the first one!

jdanneel

10-01-2016, 09:36 AM

Good to see you are back !

Frank Giger

10-02-2016, 04:55 PM

Between a bunch of "life issues," which included an awesome vacation and the temperatures in full Alabama mode, it's not like I'd of done much flying regardless.

This week is going to be dedicated to wing and rudder repair, and ordering the ovalized tubing for the gear.

The only delay is that with the notion of leaving the ribs and bow in place on the rear spar, I'll have to go to turnbuckles on the drag/anti-drag wires....which means I need to order some.

martymayes

10-02-2016, 07:26 PM

The engine dialed out at .009,

nine thousandths of an inch is a lot of runout for a crankshaft. How much would be not acceptable? Where did you take your measurement?

Frank Giger

10-06-2016, 10:42 PM

The thing is that there isn't a published tolerance for VW's.

For either Lycombing or Continental (I can't remember which), the allowed run out is .005 at the hub, .008 at the flange.

I talked to Valley Engineering, and they said that VW's are pretty loose and that's not too bad; if it runs with normal temps and the prop tracks within 1/8th an inch it's okay.

The engine's a bit down the road, though. Lower wing's spar removed, and I'll work on the upper wing next.

Then the gear.

Once the gear's repaired I can mount and track the prop to see how that works out.

cub builder

10-07-2016, 09:30 PM

If you believe .009" runout is acceptable and you are convinced the crank is otherwise good, you can shim the prop to track true. That was pretty common on the old tapershaft Continentals as very few of the flanges would actually track true as most had suffered a prop strike and needed some help getting the prop to track properly. Manila envelope paper works really well as a shim.

-Cub Builder

pittsdriver3

10-09-2016, 06:29 AM

Manila paper works really well That's what we used on my friend's Formula One racer and he won the Gold at Reno this year. Runs 4200 RPM during the race. Don

Frank Giger

10-24-2016, 09:15 PM

I bit the bullet and bought replacement spars from Aircraft Spruce, as none of our local places had what I needed.

A very long drive, but now work can seriously commence.

Frank Giger

10-30-2016, 09:06 AM

Let's get to work!

So that spar was only slightly bent; I am being just nit-picky on the decision to replace it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair005.jpg

The advantage of putting all the plan stuff onto the MDF boards I bought is that they can come in handy for repairs:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair004.jpg

So mark, drill, slip back between the ribs, drill, rivet, and spend far too long figuring out a way to tighten the drag/anti-drag wires.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair006.jpg

For the leading edge, I used copious amounts of rubber mallet to get any of the big creases out, riveted down the bottom (the rivet holes matched up!), and used a specialized aviation tools to hold the top down into shape.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair007.jpg

Ready for cover!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair008.jpg

Saville

11-02-2016, 03:00 PM

Let's get to work!

So that spar was only slightly bent; I am being just nit-picky on the decision to replace it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair005.jpg

Slightly bent? I dunno....from the looks of it I think that amount of deformation takes it out of the "nit-picky" class and into the "smart move" category. Rigging might be simpler that way; handling characteristics might be better than if you left it in; and I think you are coming down on the side of safety by replacing it.

Frank Giger

11-02-2016, 03:37 PM

:)

Yeah, it had to go.

Upper wing spar measured, cut, drilled, and put onto the wing today. Everything lined up like it was supposed to, so this weekend I'll pumon the drag/anti-drag wires, re-attach the ribs, pound out the crinkles in the leading edge, and put it back on.

Then a day to cover the wings, a day to paint them, and it's on to the gear.

rwanttaja

11-02-2016, 04:15 PM

Assuming you have to replace some of the wing fabric, you MUST hang one of the roundels on the wall of the hangar. In fact, you should get someone to shoot a few holes in it, first.

C'mon, it's Alabama...SOMEBODY'S got to own a gun.....:-)

Ron Wanttaja

Frank Giger

11-02-2016, 06:50 PM

It's Alabama - I don't know anyone who has a (singular) firearm. ;)

Both wing's fabric came off as one big piece, but the upper wing roundel hand rib stitching through part of it. The lower wing roundel is perfect, though.

I'm thinking of using it as the background of a large shadow box with the shattered prop over it.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair001.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair002.jpg

What is amazing is the nature of the fabric. It is more like a thin leather than fabric.

Both wings will be recovered from scratch, as well as the rudder. One can only shrink it to fit once.

martymayes

11-03-2016, 08:23 AM

What is amazing is the nature of the fabric. It is more like a thin leather than fabric.

Was that a latex paint finish?

Sam Buchanan

11-03-2016, 12:59 PM

The latex system results in a surprisingly flexible finish. I keep a piece of latex painted fabric in the hangar just to show the doubters. The sample has been repeatedly wadded up into a ball then flattened back out. The paint has yet to crack or show any distress....the fabric is like a tough rubberized sheet.

5880

5881

5882

Frank Giger

11-03-2016, 03:50 PM

Household exterior latex paint FTW.

Easy to paint with, easy to repair, and looks great.

DaleB

11-03-2016, 09:03 PM

Any idea how the weight compares to the more traditional method of, what, thirty or forty coats of various substances? :)

Sam Buchanan

11-04-2016, 08:53 AM

Too many variables to make a blanket statement but it seems weight is usually comparable to traditional "dope" finishes and lighter than glossy polyurethane finishes.

But regardless of weight, I'm done with dealing with noxious MEK fumes associated with the most commonly used certificated system. I've become a convert to 3M contact adhesive (Stewart System) that is water-borne and nearly odor-free.

Frank Giger

11-05-2016, 08:52 AM

Oh, the Stewart System is the best! It allows for adjusting the fabric when covering before the final heat treatment of the glue, which is perfect for a guy like me. Plus no hazardous fumes.

On latex paint, I did a lot of back-of-the-envelope working with a guess of how much paint I used and then threw away the results.

First, I don't know how much paint actually got on the aircraft. There were a bunch of pans of paint that weren't completely used and thrown out, some spillage from cans, etc. Plus I never re-used a roller. At the price it's better to just chunk the used one and grab a fresh one when starting a new color or session.

Second, I don't know how much of the weight of the paint is water (that evaporates) and how much is paint. So while I used roughly 15 pounds of paint (about two gallons) for the aircraft, most of it probably evaporated off.

Third, any weight increases over certified paint are offset by the ease of putting on regular latex paint and the cost. My plane isn't going to be penalized by an extra pound or two, and between the ten wires on the wings, the four in the center holding the cabanes, the five on the landing gear, the gun sticking over the wing on the top, and the big ugly gear itself, a super smooth finish is just trying to polish the drag turd.

:)

DaleB

11-05-2016, 09:47 AM

Oh, I wasn't really concerned about it as much as just curious. If I end up building something that could be painted with house paint, it's probably going to get house paint. As much as I fondly recall the smell of butyrate dope from building R/C planes with my dad back in the 60s an 70s, I really don't think I'd want to do a full sized airplane that way.

I'd love-love-LOVE to build one of the Airdrome planes, but I really want two seats and I'm not a good candidate for a narrow side-by-side cockpit. So a Fisher Celebrity is looking more like the way to go. I'd build more than one, but I can't afford the hangar space!

Frank Giger

11-08-2016, 10:17 AM

The AA planes are definitely niche sort of day flying aircraft on one's own. There's a pilot at my field that is one of the faster-longer-more kind of guys and just scratches his head at why anyone would want to cruise in the air slower than highway traffic...and I look at his aircraft and think "functional but not fun."

Naturally, since we're both pilots we laugh about it and give each other a hand on stuff.

Drag/anti-drag wires in place, ribs re-attached, and the leading edge pounded to get most of the terrible creases out of it and partially put back on. All of my batteries for my drill were dead, and I took that as a sign it was time to stop.

I'd of been back up there this morning to finish up, but the wife announced with a big smile that we have dentist appointments instead. A smile because there is a possibility that they'll have to replace one of my early fillings...apparently 40 years is about the shelf life of the things...and I rarely ever need any sort of dental work done. For a host of reasons that aren't her fault, she's a dental misfit and if it wasn't for modern dentistry would probably have her smile in a glass by the bed in the morning.

Frank Giger

11-12-2016, 03:15 PM

Upper wing back together, so let's start covering the lower wing!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair009.jpg

Since it's narrow, I'll use the "wrap" method and use one piece of fabric, gluing it at the bow on the trailing edge.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair010.jpg

Things are a lot slower than last time I covered. Last time was in the middle of summer at over 100 degrees, and with cold fall weather (it was in the low 70's) it takes a lot longer for the glue to dry.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair011.jpg

Gonna run the iron over the glue and put in the patch for the interplane strut before I do the shrinking, put in the rib stitching rivets, and tape.

pittsdriver3

11-13-2016, 07:35 AM

Frank, on something like that interplane strut you should slit the fabric so it will barely fit over it, then shrink and do the re enforcement patch. You want to do all the patches after you shrink to the final temp. On something like that strut attach I'll cut a Kydex or an .020 aluminum re enforcement that fits around the fitting perfectly and is about 1/2" wide all around something like your round inspection hole re enforcement. Then do your patch with a 1-11/2" border. Looks like it is well on the way to flight. Don

Frank Giger

11-13-2016, 09:08 AM

I like using the cardboard the bottles of Coke-Cola come in for reinforcing on patches. It's thin, rigid enough to hold its shape, easy to work with, and just flexible enough to work around when fastening the bolts at the bottom of the mount without creasing.

I was very pleased on how it worked out the first time I covered.

:)

Frank Giger

11-16-2016, 03:55 PM

Bottom wing needs rib stitching rivets on the bottom, but otherwise done.

I hate to say it, but my covering job isn't much better than my original...

Frank Giger

11-23-2016, 09:16 PM

I used aviation grade thin cardboard for my reinforcement around the interplane strut mount.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair013.jpg

It may cause a chuckle, but it works great! I need the fabric there to flex enough to get at the nuts and bolts for the struts and still be firm enough not to let the fabric flap about and rip.

Lower wing ready for paint!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair012.jpg

On to the upper wing. One of the things that crossed my mind is that the compression strut on the wing that holds the interplane struts might not have the holes lining up. In a rare moment of foresight, I checked and they weren't. So I rotated the wing compression strut until they both agreed with each other and the holes in the mounts for the interplane strut.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwrepair002.jpg

It would have been a nightmare to fix after covering. Note the rubber mallet laying there for an idea of how nightmarish it would have been.

Here's how to get a sharp glue line across the leading edge. The fabric above the glue line was trimmed away.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwrepair003.jpg

The clamp is there just to keep the fabric in place initially. Once the glue went down it wasn't needed any more.

So bottom fabric is on and I'll go out after Thanksgiving and finish covering it.

Frank Giger

12-12-2016, 12:43 AM

Just a quick update at my progress:

Upper wing primed and ready for color!

There's a wayback moment in that pic, too. The board with a rudder shape showing where the plywood formers where was what I used for the rudder kit I ordered before committing to the full aircraft. I didn't use that rudder (it became a test piece for covering), as it was acceptable on the lowest level and the stuff to make a new one was part of the kit anyhow.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwrepair004.jpg

Lower wing primed and ready for color!

Note the special Aviation Grade latex primer I used. It's terrific stuff, being meant for placement on stucco and brick, and sealed the fabric with one thin coat. The faint glue lines showing through aren't a concern, as the glue most definitely sealed the fabric.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair014.jpg

While I was waiting for the lower wing to dry, I decided to tackle the gear repair.

First, my hangar/workshop is in a total state of chaos. There's a bit of a reason for this. Once I covered the wings I couldn't sweep. The amount of dirt that would fly up would put a layer on the fabric that would cause all sorts of problems. Why didn't I clean and sweep before covering? I was in total work mode, and when I finished the repairs on the wings went straight into covering.

Hey, at least I know where everything is in all the clutter, and those rivet mandrels aren't hurting anything.

Anyhow, my idea was that I'd have to suspend the gear assembly off of the ground in order to allow it to center properly. I didn't really like this, but figured it was an eventuality. It was. Jacking up the gear from either the struts or the axle just wasn't going to allow me to work.

So I lifted the front end with my engine lift, removed the bungees, and one wheel, thinking I might have to remove the axle in the repairs. Turns out the axle is just fine where it is, and serves as a nice guide as a double check of original position.

I removed the center section that was bent and after many attempts learned that straightening it for measurement for the replacement wasn't going to happen. So I put it on the end of the new piece, marked a common center, rotated the bent tubing, and made a mark at the end. What a smart fellow am I!

(It's a quarter inch too short.)

The big hint is the cross wires. They self-center the gear when tight. So I need to make a new cross bar of the right length, plunk it in there with tension on those wires, drill and bolt in place.

The bent landing gear strut was removed by simply drilling out the rivets that held it in place. Fortunately it did straighten out very well, and will be a good template for the replacement. I should be able to slug it in there, drill through the holes in the gussets, rivet and be back in business.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gear_repair001.jpg

The wood blocks, boards, and cinder block are there for placement when I was done under the gear legs. I don't know how good the jack in the engine lift is, and if it relaxes I do not want to open the door to find the aircraft in some unusual position.

The square tubing looks organic and no the least bit weird. The type of person who would know it shouldn't be square will also be the sort of person who would know better than to criticize.

Oh, and quick question for the gurus out there:

I know how I'm going to put all of this in the air frame and engine logs, but what about the propeller? Do I just close the first one out with a "Prop destroyed, no longer in service" along with the date and start a new one, or can I update the old one with the new serial number, as they are otherwise identical?

Dana

12-12-2016, 05:35 AM

You don't need a separate propeller log for a fixed pitch prop. It should simply be an entry in the aircraft log that the prop was replaced.

martymayes

12-12-2016, 12:41 PM

I know how I'm going to put all of this in the air frame and engine logs, but what about the propeller? Do I just close the first one out with a "Prop destroyed, no longer in service" along with the date and start a new one, or can I update the old one with the new serial number, as they are otherwise identical?
I wouldn't go through the effort to document what happened to the prop. It's just no longer in service. Toss what record you had away in the trash with the prop. Then start off clean sheet.

Frank Giger

12-12-2016, 02:53 PM

But it's seven dollars!

:)

Frank Giger

12-16-2016, 11:43 AM

I got a bit distracted working on the airplane, as we had some very unusual visitors to my sleepy little airport.

First, Buck Roetman was at the field, flying around and making smoke after some knife edges. Heck of a nice guy.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/buck.jpg

"Stick around an see something cool," he says.

Then a Blackhawk, which just flew in and sat there.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/blackhawk.jpg

Then...

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/blue_angel.jpg

Turns out they're thinking of having an airshow here next year and sent one of their planes to check out the field.

Many mucky-mucks were all over them, so I just stayed out of the way and took some pics...and then got to work.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gear_repair002.jpg

So gear, she is repaired.

Finish painting the wings, fix the rudder, put the oil cooler back on the engine, mount the prop, and I'm back in business.

I'm pulling the brakes; I've got to come up with something better.

Frank Giger

12-24-2016, 09:48 PM

Taking advantage of some unseasonably warm weather, loads done the last couple days.

First, wings painted:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair015.jpg

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwrepair005.jpg

And the bottoms, which will need the transitions and the roundels to put on:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair016.jpg

(picture of the upper wing not taken! D'oh!)

The gear is repaired and needs some paint on the bottom:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/gear_repair003.jpg

Oh, and new bushings in place of the brake mounts, and tubes and tires on the wheels!

The rudder was sliced at the top, the bow pulled up to something more or less straight, and a panel put in:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rudder_repair001.jpg

So really, at this point I'm at cosmetics, excepting the tailwheel modification and putting both the oil cooler and the prop back on.

:)

choppergirl

12-28-2016, 05:00 PM

http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=48155&d=1456793538

Wrens, GA Nieuport 11 (http://www.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums/album.php?albumid=534)
(owners (http://www.jcmservices.net/nieuport.htm))

If you cut off and saved any of your damaged roundels or tail feather cloth, I want them to hang on my wall :)

Frank Giger

01-16-2017, 12:30 PM

I have plans for the roundels - otherwise I'd offer one of them to you.

Anyhow, an update on the aircraft:

Wing transitions done:

Wavy tape down:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/rlw_repair017.jpg

Wavy tape up:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/uwrepair006.jpg

It's not even close to historically correct, but I think it looks pretty good and was a simple solution.

Now for the non-historically correct blue trim and the dead on the money roundels!

Frank Giger

03-30-2017, 11:01 PM

This "Education" part of "Education and Recreation" stuff is getting out of hand. This week I'm learning how to tear down a VW engine and replace the crankshaft and prop hub.

Saville

03-31-2017, 06:46 PM

This "Education" part of "Education and Recreation" stuff is getting out of hand. This week I'm learning how to tear down a VW engine and replace the crankshaft and prop hub.

Well that's the way these things go, I find. I wanted to install a new battery in my plane. It's footprint was different so that means a new and differently built battery tray.

Which meant I had to learn about drilling for rivets and riveting. Which meant I had to lean all about rivets, their nomenclature, how to squeeze them with a squeezer...

Then when the battery tray was finished, I figured it was a 30 minute swap out with the old. After all, the manufacturer pre-drilled the hole sin the tray for fastening it to the airplane.

What I didn't reckon on was that the builder would not use those holes. So then I had to get educated and practice drilling out rivets, size of plate nuts, size of drill bits to use for the rivets etc.

Took many weeks or reading, studying. researching, asking, practicing.

It's just the way it is I guess

Frank Giger

03-31-2017, 09:42 PM

Yep, it's a constant learning curve.

Oooh, pictures!

Here's my guru, Dave, surveying the task ahead. Not the engine as much as teaching my dumb butt as we go along.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr001.jpg

Hmmm, so that's what a wrist pin is...neat. "Put a finger on the...[sproing]...so it won't fly across the hangar. Did you see where it went?"

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr002.jpg

Most of the way to where we can split the case.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr003.jpg

But all the RTV Red stuff has to come off, so I spent some time with kerosene, a soft toothbrush, and some wooden sticks turning this:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr004.jpg

Into this:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr005.jpg

Valve push rod label cardboard holder thingie.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr006.jpg

Front left cylinder running a bit rich. Hmmm.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr007.jpg

Frank Giger

03-31-2017, 09:44 PM

Case split and we get to see some guts.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr008.jpg

Here's the prop hub, front bearing, and source of the problem:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr009.jpg

The silver thingie right at the start of the case, behind the hub, is the bearing. There's a little cup right behind it - it looks like a beveled piece - that is a kind of splash guard, and it's warped. Indeed, we could find no way for that front bearing to get oil but by having some just thrown on it from the engine.

The prop hub just fell off without the bolt to hold it in; I thought the heat shrinking around the woodruff key would have kept it on. It may well be that the crankshaft is okay and the hub was katywhompus. But in for a penny, in for a pound, and the new crankshaft and hub will go in the engine.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0010.jpg

Pulling bits and pieces off. I am sorely lacking in tools and we couldn't pull the drive gear off of the shaft...I'll carry it someplace professional and beg them to do it for me. Note Dave is in uniform for the task. :)

We're writing stuff down and marking stuff up on what goes where, and I'm making everything slow out of ignorance. Dave has been a helluva guy for displaying the level of patience with me that he has.

Sam Buchanan

04-02-2017, 07:25 AM

Frank, maybe I just missed it but what prompted you to tear down the engine? Was the prop not tracking properly?

Frank Giger

04-02-2017, 08:52 AM

Double check of the prop hub after the strike showed it was way off.

Frank Giger

04-18-2017, 02:55 PM

Follow up answer to the "why" of the tear down. We discovered that it was the prop hub itself that had ovalized and gone off true, but the only way to truly check the crankshaft was to split the case and run a dial indicator at each bearing. It dialed true. So it was the hub, not the crankshaft, that was bent.

However, no telling if there is a crack in it without removing it. While it looks like it's unlikely, it's one of those "would you bet your life on it" things, and since I have a brand spanking new crankshaft in a box not three feet away, might as well install it.

Gratuitous engine pictures!

Everything cleaned, crankshaft and camshaft put into place, time to mate the cases:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0011.jpg

Lots of careful fitting together, but it's looking pretty good.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0012.jpg

We actually had a minor mishap where the ancient ring compression tool used to put the pistons in the cylinders wasn't cooperating and we wound up breaking a ring. Sigh.

So I got a new, better tool and a new set of rings. Pretty expensive lesson on why getting frustrated and whacking things isn't the way to go.

But she looks pretty engine-y.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0013.jpg

Loads to do, of course, including mounting accessories, the prop hub, valve thingies, etc., but things are really looking up.

Thursday the guy in Georgia with the extra brakes and wheels from his Nieuport projects, and hopefully that big gaping hole in my "repair the problem instead of just fixing it" plan for my airplane will be solved.

bookmaker

04-18-2017, 08:23 PM

You will have it back in the air in no time.

Frank Giger

04-18-2017, 09:22 PM

I hope so.

Since the weather has been perfect for it, the aviation community has stooped to mocking me and my grounded bird by flying close to the house.

I used to look for their planes and smile, but now I shake my fist at them and call them bad names.

:)

Dana

04-19-2017, 04:18 PM

I used to look for their planes and smile, but now I shake my fist at them and call them bad names.

http://ih0.redbubble.net/image.13224421.9661/sticker,375x360.u2.png

Frank Giger

04-24-2017, 09:37 PM

Well, gosh darned it (and other words to that effect), I went to mount the prop hub and the worst possible thing happened.

It went on half way without a hitch and then just stopped.

Tarnashion! Golly gee!

Now, with a shrink hub there is only one thing one can do when this happens - tear the engine apart, pull the crankshaft, and use a puller to very carefully remove it.

My helper gave up and went home at the "Well, frig" stage, and left the fixing to me. I love my helper - he's a good guy - and his incredible slow nature paid huge dividends, as I had absorbed what needed to be done pretty well. I had the engine apart in about an hour and a half, and an hour later managed to beg a big puller from our resident fixer guy and have the hub off.

The woodruff key was too high, and it ramped when I went to put it on, making it even more high. Loads of precise measuring, a little work on the belt sander to bring it down a bit, and tomorrow I'll give it another go. This time I'm going to mount the hub on the crankshaft before putting it in the engine.

DaleB

04-24-2017, 11:34 PM

Frank, you are a better and more patient man than I. I'm afraid there would have been an engine-shaped impression in the hangar door if that had happened to me.

Frank Giger

04-26-2017, 05:42 PM

Re-polished the crankshaft, polished the inside of the prop hub, heated it to a tad over 400* degrees and she fell right down to the oil slinger like it was supposed to in the first place.

While I was waiting on it to heat up on the hot plate, I also put a new big N on the tail.

Time to put it all back together!

* All the instructions say "heat it to where it will fall down the crankshaft freely." No numbers with that. I called Great Plains and they said "somewhere around 400 degrees." Well, 400 didn't cut it, so I took out my torch and heated her up as evenly as I could to about 475 or so and she plopped right on. The problem, I think, is that the "400" assumes an oven with the whole thing heated up equally. I don't have an oven in the hangar, so I had to make due.

Fokker Builder

04-26-2017, 06:21 PM

Danged Newps
6314

Frank Giger

04-26-2017, 06:51 PM

That's the German copy of the Nieuport 17, the Siemens-Schuckert D.I.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/SSW_D.I_in_snow.jpg

One can tell from the markings!

Edit - I have to get back up in the air.

Sam has gone Hun 200 miles north of me, and there's another DVII about 100 south in Prattville. With nothing but my little Bebe to keep them from taking Birmingham!

Frank Giger

05-04-2017, 11:40 AM

Spoke to Robert Baslee from Airdrome about my brake woes, and he is sending me a set of drum brakes to use instead of the band ones.

I'll have to make custom backing plates, etc., but I've been down that road and have the templates for it.

Frank Giger

05-09-2017, 08:54 PM

Hmmm, let's try this again.

Prop hub on the crankshaft? Yep.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0014.jpg

Everything all lined up and the case put back together? Yep.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0015.jpg

After torquing the case nuts I stopped for the day. I was getting all scatter brained and started setting things down and forgetting where I put it and not finding things that were right in the open.

Not a good way to be when I had the task of positioning piston rings and putting the pistons in the cylinders. Better to call it a day, drink some water, and get something to eat.

I borrowed a bit from the instructions on the circle thingie that goes between the flat oil slinger and the prop hub. With it on the crankshaft I couldn't get a good view if the prop hub was fully seated or not when mounting it. It said that it could be split and the join rotated horizontally in the case once joined, so I did that.

martymayes

05-10-2017, 05:56 AM

is that a Force 1 hub from GPAC?

Great engine pics!

Frank Giger

05-10-2017, 09:51 AM

It's not a Force One, but it is a shrink fit hub from Great Plains.

They really are great. They went above and beyond in answering my questions, even in areas not covered by my purchase of a prop hub, crankshaft, bearings, and gasket set.

A huge plus for a guy like me is that they speak do-hickey. :)

Frank Giger

05-18-2017, 01:15 PM

I need a pinion removal tool to back out and re-align the distributor gear...I was off a tooth when I put the darned thing back together. It's on its way and should be here Tuesday or Wednesday.

Then it's a matter of putting the bolt into the prop hub (Dave has it to drill a hole for the cotter pin), putting the Diehl case and starter on the back of it, putting the spark plugs in, mounting it on the engine, filling it with oil, and seeing if she'll start and adjust the timing.

Getting closer....

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0016.jpg

Sam Buchanan

05-19-2017, 11:32 AM

Frank, good to see your engine coming back together...it has been quite the journey!

I see one item that you might want to consider. With "aviation engines" it is standard practice to NOT have any pressure senders mounted to the engine block. The concern is engine vibration might crack the threaded portion of the sender due to the weight of the sender fatiguing the brass threaded portion. This concern is alleviated by mounting the sender on the firewall and connecting it to the engine with a flexible hose. You may never have a problem with the sender as installed, but if it cracks you may be going through this overhaul thing again. The flexible hose is good insurance and easily installed.

Here are the fuel and oil pressure senders mounted on the firewall of my RV-6:

6352

I would also drill a small hole in the oil filler cap so it can be safety wired. More cheap insurance. :)

Best wishes for a successful engine break-in!

Frank Giger

05-27-2017, 07:49 PM

So engine is pretty much done. Just have to put on the valve covers, torque the spark plugs and hook them up, and mount the engine and prop.

Just to show how my "bad luck/good luck" life works, there's a little spring that goes between the cam gear for the distributor and the distributor. Once everything is lined up as it should be, one simply drops it into a hole on the gear and puts the distributor on top of it.

There is a cut in the side of the well where the distributor fits in to meet the gear, no doubt to allow oil in and out, and is about a third the way up from the cam gear. It is horizontal. The spring goes in vertically.

I know that it is the perfect size - not one bit bigger or smaller than absolutely necessary for a zero tolerance fit - for the spring to fit through. The spring fell to its side and I used my little wooden skewer to pick it up and it simply vanished. Gone. Not popped out, just gone.

The spring is in the engine. The tiny half inch long three eighths inch wide spring Is. In. The. Engine.

Breathe.

Flashlight down the hole. Can't see it. Start undoing the bolts to the plate where the mechanical fuel pump would go.

Have my two Pros From Dover gently step in and volunteer, suggesting I sit in a chair and let them do it. Apparently I looked like I was about to rip the whole thing apart with my bare hands while producing a stream of profanities that would probably take the paint off the cars parked outside the hangar.

Pump plate removed. Flashlight. No spring seen.

Oil filler plate removed. Flashlight. Silence. More flashlight. "Hand me that magnet," Rusty says, and expertly removes it from the bottom of the engine.

So fantastically terrible luck in having the spring go into the engine, but also wondrous good luck that it could be spotted and fished out.

From there things went pretty quickly, and we moved the engine onto a stand over by the aircraft, hooking up various electrical things and turning it over to set the timing. It was off initially, but thanks to the flashy flash gun and an allen wrench, we soon got things right.

I'd of mounted the engine on the plane, but it seems it's a bit bent. I don't know if I can true it up with a jury rigged press or have to make a new one, but I'm not too upset with that. It's just four pieces of square steel stock and some welds. Not to throw shade at Robert, but I can throw a bead of the same quality as is presented on the part from his how without much difficulty.

Frank Giger

07-02-2017, 09:13 AM

So a few pics to show that I'm not just malingering.

First, let's back up a bit and talk about the tail wheel mod I did. The Airdrome method is to take some .020 aluminum sheet, bend it into a box shaped U, and secure with some 1/8" rivets to give a flat surface for the horn to rest on.

This works okay for most, as they fly from grass.

This is the state of the grass at my airport as of yesterday afternoon, and the reason for my flip:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/talla_grass.jpg

So I took some nice thick square aluminum stock that fit snugly around the tube, cut it to fit, and over sleeved the tail wheel tube:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw010a.jpg

There's an AN3 bolt that runs horizontal behind the vertical to take some of the stress off of the bolt that holds on the tail wheel.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/tw011.jpg

Engine is mounted to the aircraft!

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0017.jpg

Naturally there's a comedy of errors to go with the mounting, but not too many and I managed to get it on okay.

I was getting a bit frustrated putting the mount on the engine, as I'd line stuff up, move a bit and have something move or a washer fall off or something (I put the mount on the engine and then pick the whole thing up and mate it to the aircraft).

Fortunately, my builder's log is at the hangar and I flipped to the relevant page. There, with pictures, is a little line that said "I found it much easier to line up the bottom two mounts first and then the top."

Ah. Smart man. I did it that way and it went right on with no further trouble.

I did some work on the brakes as well, mostly just lining things up to see how they'll shake out.

I might have gotten more done, but Mike was putting the finishing touches on his KR2, having rebuilt and mounted his newly refurbished engine.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/mike_eng.jpg

I told him his baffling needs to look more crappy to meet my standards.

Back up this afternoon for re-timing and possibly firing up the engine.

Fokker Builder

07-02-2017, 10:58 AM

Frank, Glad you are going to be back in the wind again. What tail wheel assembly is that?

Jim

Frank Giger

07-03-2017, 08:50 AM

That's an Airdrome Airplanes tail wheel assembly, Giger Modification.

Robert just uses a 1" steel tube that's been bent that has a bungee around it in the front, an AN3 bolt through some gussets about 2/3rds down, a flat horn, and a square bit of stock below it holding the wheel. The horn and the wheel holder are joined to the tube by means of an AN3 bolt.

The smaller hard rubber wheel supplied fell apart on the grooved pavement I fly off of, so I used a larger wheel gifted by one of my EAA brothers and made a mount for it out of a bit of square roll bar.

Making the square fitting around the tube should help beef it up against any lateral loads and end the bending of vertical bolts.

A little more progress done yesterday.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/engr0018.jpg

My camera had crapped out, so Mike, a fellow EAA'r with a lovely KR2, took this photo. Sunlight on the tip makes it look candy corned.

A few other things done:

Brake handle mounted; I need to get some more cable to fit the new location, but I like the routing paths. They aren't going to interfere with anything.

Engine was re-timed and ran well!

And more stuff to do:

In all the shuffling of stuff around my hangar, I mislaid two of my 10mm bolts needed to mount the oil cooler. Simple enough to replace, but it's disconcerting.

Go on a bug hunt. Paper wasps are in full swing, and industrious suckers. On the other side of the aircraft from me, right about where the prop tip is on the back side of the firewall one had started a nest.

I know this because I put my hand there without looking and got stung for my effort. Just three cells, so she had clearly just begun her work. But that means I've got to seriously look at each piece of the aircraft to ensure I don't have more.

Frank Giger

07-10-2017, 12:42 PM

So for today's "ugly but it works" picture, behold my offset brake handle:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake_handle001.jpg

Just a piece of scrap 1" tubing, annealed and beat on with a hammer, and then riveted to a fuselage tool.

I discovered when removing and replacing the brake line sheaths that the old ones both had kinks in them where I had fed them through the gear legs that were pretty tight. The metal coil of the sheaths were both pinched tight.

So add yet another potential cause for why the brake locked up. When I released them they might not have completely released.

So the new lines will go along the outside of the gear legs, zip tied top and bottom and concealed somewhat by some aluminum tape that I'll paint.

Still working out the brake drum holes to fit the wheels - my wooden jig system didn't work - and the brake assembly thingy mount as well.

Here's something pretty, though:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/newprop001.jpg

Engine all put back together and runs pretty darned good:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/newprop002.jpg

Frank Giger

07-22-2017, 09:47 PM

Pretty enlightening day out at the airport!

Apart from a lot of non-aviation fun and games (I saw a big wreck happen on the Interstate and a guy that was tased by the police at the airport), actual stuff got done on my Bebe.

First, Mike decided to take a break from his gorgeous KR2 to see if he could help me out. This is good, as I needed a fresh set of eyes on my problems.

My build planning process usually involves several Rube Goldberg type solutions that go through a series of removing unnecessary steps or parts or convoluted ways of doing things. Usually I turn the "fabricate a multi-angle folded piece of aluminum, alter a piece of a kitchen appliance, find strips of some sort of rubber or cloth, a rivnut, three sheet metal screws, two eighth inch rivets, safety wire, and a bit of velcro into "just drill a hole and put a bolt through it, along with two washers and nut."

But sometimes I don't reduce things down as simply as they can be.

We sussed out that my brake cables were best run down the rear gear legs to the brakes (I had them going down the front ones), and how to mount the brake to the assembly I made for the band brakes. Neato! Not only does it look better, but there are fewer bends in the cables.

I did manage to get a little wink for coming up with a good swag for the brake cable ends, using some ferrules and shaping them with the belt sander. I can fabricate just about anything my plane requires with a blow torch, a Sharpie, a hacksaw, a drill, and a belt sander. It's the one skill I have learned I'm rather proud of.

He strongly suggested we correct the fitting I have at the bottom of the fuel tank that goes to my drain, as it has a tiny leak. It's always been that way, and not a huge deal, but apparently having any sort of gasoline leak near the battery is undesirable. Who knew?

Anyhow, how I had it rigged up was a 90 degree fitting with a barb end connector for the fuel line in it and to get it oriented close to the right direction it was a little loose.

We drained the fuel and after cleaning the threads on both, Mike looked at me and asked why the hell did I have that 90 degree bend in there in the first place? The line just goes down and then to the bottom of the firewall...just put the barb fitting in there without it and it can be tightened up properly.

"I dunno, I just did it that way," I admitted, "let's do it your way."

So we did.

Next time I'm out I'll bring my camera to show my work, if anyone is interested.

Frank Giger

08-02-2017, 10:44 AM

Getting closer!

Drum brakes installed. I had to do some thinking on this, though it looks dead simple.

My original drum brake mounts, which was a bushing welded to a bit of thick sheet steel, were just too good to toss aside, as they answered so many questions.

The problem was that the weld beads were on the outside, towards the brake. This didn't matter with the band brakes, as the drum was on the wheel and the bands went around the outside of them. With the drum brakes, they had to go flush against the steel plate, and couldn't with the bead in the way.

My solution was to take a 1/4" thick bit of poplar and oversize the hole in the center to go around the bead, and use it as a big ol' washer. It worked out really well.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake013.jpg

Two bolts hold the brake assembly to the steel support, one on top and one on bottom.

Happily enough, the bolt hole that had the band brake mount was in perfect position for the cable clamp for the new brake as well.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake014.jpg

There's some slack put on the cable to the rear of the mount to allow the arm to move forward as the gear rises in the bungees without tightening the cable.

One of my EAA brothers has the drums for drilling holes that match the wheels, and I should have that by the end of the week. I have a basic inability with the tools at hand (and lack of skill) to drill them correctly where the drums are centered on the wheel.

Some of y'all might not be aware, but the axle setup is, um, interesting in my airplane (and I think most Airdrome ones), in that the axle is a tube and the wheels rest on a 3/4" inch, 12 inch long bit of solid round steel stock that is slid into it. The bushing around it is PVC pipe.

Both of mine are slightly bent, so some replacement stock is in place. I'm going to increase the length of them by about six inches. That should be here by week's end as well.

I washed the wings yesterday evening and spotted a few things that need correcting. I cut a small inspection slot in the end of the undamaged wing to look at the spar and need to patch it, and do some touch up painting.

But I'm damned close to putting her back in the air!

Frank Giger

08-05-2017, 10:39 PM

At this point I guess I'm just posting to remind myself of the work, but here it goes:

Whelp, lots done today.

The axle inserts have arrived, and I took them out to the airport. Since the brake drums themselves weren't ready, no need in undoing the bungees and mucking around with the axle.

So I patched up a couple of inspection slits I cut into the undamaged wing, touched up the paint on the wings, drilled the replacement spar on the top wing, put on the side sheeting on the fuselage, and was about to call it a day.

My EAA brother called to say he was finished with the drums, so I hopped in the truck and made my way over there. Jack is a great guy and had a helluva career as a USAF pilot, so I got him talking about flying...I just sat there slack jawed as he talked about some of the stuff that happened to him in SE Asia in the '60's.

One of the tales he regaled me with was flying a Cambodian AF plane over to Vietnam to have bomb racks retrofitted to fit US munitions. His introduction to the MiG 19 was a Cambodian pilot pointing stuff out to him and going through start up and shut down procedures, gear, flaps, etc., with everything labeled in either cyrillic or squiggly writing - and the inherent hazards of flying a MiG, regardless of markings, over South Vietnamese airspace. He had "friendly aircraft is armed and will respond in kind if shot at" put in the NOTAM for it.

:)

I did a down and dirty mounting of the drums to see if he got center right on the holes and it's on the money.

But by that time it was late afternoon and I was wilting from the Alabama heat and called it a day.

Once I put in the new axle inserts, it's time to mount the wings, re-time the engine, and do some taxi tests to ensure the brakes won't do anything hazardous.

And then....

Bill Ladd

08-06-2017, 07:13 PM

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Frank Giger

08-09-2017, 08:31 AM

Okay, so brakes all good now - at least until taxi tests say otherwise!

First, those 3/4" round steel bar axle inserts were bent, the right being the worst:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake016.jpg

Interestingly enough, they were bent on the outside of the axle, right after the bushing that holds the brake mount and at the wheel.

New inserts cut and the plane up on blocks, bungees removed. I wonder who will spot the inherent reason for my difficulties in the picture - hint: it's a gaming joke.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake015.jpg

New inserts in, bungees in place, end caps to hold it all in place drilled, and just a little cleaning up of the cables needing done.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/brake017.jpg

A few notes:

Note the cable routing along the inside of the strut with an easy loop for slack as the assembly moves up and forward on the bungees.

The twisty ties are going to be replaced or hidden with some twine wrapping, which will then be painted, along with the cable. The cable is staying on the outside of the gear leg. I'm all over aesthetics at this point (not that it was ever high on the list, mind you), and since the entire aircraft is an exercise in drag, it's not like I'm spoiling the clean lines.

There were two things spotted and corrected with the hardware: One of the bushings on one wheel wasn't seated properly at the factory. A little gentle tapping put it right. Second, one of the brake shoes on one drum was proud of the assembly and had to be taken down a bit to ensure a fit. It was tight fitting into the drum before placing on the aircraft.

Fokker Builder

08-10-2017, 05:22 AM

Hey Frank,
You are getting closer. Excuse me but my motorcycle fabrication experience still says to route the brake cables down the back of the rear legs and then loop out and down to the actuator arm. It should be pretty easy to just undo at the actuator arm and route the cable around the back. Why tighten up the radius of that cable after having a problem with brake seize once? :)

Jim

Sam Buchanan

08-10-2017, 07:26 AM

Hey Frank,
You are getting closer. Excuse me motorcycle fabrication experience still says to route the brake cables down the back of the rear legs and then loop out and down the actuator arm. It should be pretty easy to just undo at the actuator arm and route the cable around the back. Why tighten up the radius of that cable after having a problem with brake seize once? :)

Jim

...and some more motorcycle fabrication experience..... :)

While you are re-routing the cables, please consider a different method of securing the cable housing at the drum. That cable clamp is squeezing the cable housing and could result in the cable binding resulting in another unfortunate brake incident. It is much better to terminate the housing in a bracket that doesn't clamp the cable housing. Here is how I installed the O-Brien brakes on my D.VII:

6616

This also provides an easy way to adjust the brakes.

Here is the very simple bracket:

6617

A similar bracket could be bolted together if you don't want to mess with welding.

Frank Giger

08-10-2017, 09:59 AM

Time to fabricate a brake line housing stop...

Sam Buchanan

08-10-2017, 10:55 AM

Frank, one more item to consider as you refine the brakes....mount the cable so it forms a 90* angle with the brake actuator arm (see my photo in previous post). This provides maximum mechanical advantage for your system, the brake arm only moves a small amount once everything is assembled and adjusted.

Frank Giger

08-12-2017, 06:29 PM

Sam, it's hard to tell from the photos, but I'm really close to 90 degrees, and a bit of inefficiency is a-okay with me! :)

Here she is as I left her yesterday, wings on and ready for rigging.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/pre-rig001.jpg

Next up after rigging:

Touch up the center wing over-wrap section, repair and mount the gun, patch the access holes I had to cut for installing wires, touch up paint, re-time the engine, and it's on to taxi tests.

I'm not going to cover the wheels until I know everything is good with the brakes.

Sam, I received a letter in the mail from the Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach, VA inviting my aircraft and myself to their airshow, which will feature WWI aircraft. They did an FAA search for all WWI sounding planes to gain participation. I'm sure you got one, too.

Sure, it's a kind of form letter and they got my first name wrong, but I was pretty jazzed by it.

Frank Giger

08-19-2017, 09:32 PM

Well, that went over like a fart in church.

Turns out that when I originally cut my inter-plane struts, the front left one was a bit shorter than the other, which means the top wing wouldn't go into rig.

Why not now when it did before? Beats the hell outta me! But best to repair it and replace with the proper length. And yes, even with the lower wing having a higher incidence than the one on the other side she flew hands off in level flight at cruise. Weird.

So talk to Robert Baslee and he said he'd send one out on Tuesday.

It's Saturday and still no tube....I guess USPS is running a bit slow.

I went out to the airport with a long bit of wood measure out the new strut, as it's a lot easier and cheaper to cut down and whittle a bit of lumber than a flattened tube.

I also had a bit of a flashback. I pulled out the plans to see what the length there called for and laughed. "As Required," is the dimension listed. :)

So using the other one as a starting point, I matched it and fussed a little to get the measurements just right:

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/strut001.jpg

It's just held in with clamps, but the wing is level with a little tension.

Speaking of which, with the strut longer than the one I had originally installed, my wires are too short. At least too short to tighten without leaving threads exposed. So I get to cut and swag new cables. Hurray!

I guess my deep desire to drive my swagging tool (unaffectionately known as the M'Fer to me) to the Tennessee River and throwing it as far in as I could was a good thing to have repressed.

cub builder

09-03-2017, 06:23 PM

Heck Frank, it's looking good. Just don't wreck it again before I get a chance to come look it over next spring. :o)

-Cub Builder

Frank Giger

09-03-2017, 09:48 PM

LOL.

Went out to the airport today and tightened the wires on that left wing (wing strut replaced, of course), as they were too loose for my liking. Now they'll sing rather than thrum.

Center section is on, and I'm repairing the gun to go over the wing.

I am in the taxi portion again, as the aircraft is in all ways ready for flight, excepting the validation of the brakes. A LOT of taxi stuff, dialing in the brakes to ensure they won't get hot and lock up. My EAA brothers were out there and we think we have them dialed in....they stop the aircraft from taxi speed on pavement in about 15 feet when fully applied, and will hold the aircraft in place when started. It took some explaining to do on why I want "weak" brakes, but I don't need anything more than that (I don't have a run-up, for example), and it's just to slow down on a taxi way or to slow down a tad to make a turn off.

Plus every single mechanical problem I've had with this aircraft has been related to brakes. Every. Single. One. If I were operating off of grass, I'd omit them entirely.

The other thing I'm working up is a mechanical airspeed indicator, which is a blade attached to some music wire that bends against wind resistance to indicate the airspeed. My crappy Falcon ASI is ten MPH fast, and I'm too cheap to replace it or have it serviced, as it's firmly in the "nice to have" instruments. I stole Rick Bennet's plans for it off of the KC Dawn Patrol's website and we'll see how that goes.

Wife is getting a little nervous, particularly since I'm coming back from the airport with the "airplane gleam" in my eye. Such a lovely woman, she worries for the both of us - and has no idea that on the scale of "risky sh*t" I've done in my life, this is about a three. I promised her I won't fly until I'm fully satisfied it's a-okay and have a full ground crew (which I'd have anyway).

wyoranch

09-03-2017, 10:50 PM

Frank,
i just wanted to wish you the best. Please be safe (and yes I did read the above post that you are taking every step necessary for your safety , but I felt compelled to say it anyway)
Rick

Frank Giger

09-04-2017, 12:54 AM

Yep.

I was thinking about the darned novel I'm going to have to write up for the logbooks (yes, I know, but I'm going to fully document in them anyway), and it occurred to me I'm close to needing the Conditional Inspection done. Since I've gone over the entire aircraft up close - including removing the wings, repairing them, rebuilding the engine, replacing a gear strut, putting on a new prop, etc., I think I can safely sign off on that, too. :)

Dana

09-04-2017, 05:36 AM

My crappy Falcon ASI is ten MPH fast, and I'm too cheap to replace it or have it serviced, as it's firmly in the "nice to have" instruments.

Is it the gauge, or is it the static source? I put a Falcon ASI in my Fisher, and it was dead on when checked with a manometer. Getting static air from behind the panel it too was ten MPH fast, but once I put static ports in the aft fuselage it was accurate.

Frank Giger

09-04-2017, 11:11 AM

I suppose I could move the static line a third time; but I'm not optimistic.

Sam Buchanan

09-04-2017, 11:14 AM

If there is no dedicated static source I suspect the airspeed error is static-related instead of an instrument problem. On the Legal Eagle I tried various schemes for getting static within the cabin and couldn't eliminate significant error. The final solution ended up being an easily fabricated pitot-static mast mounted on the wing:

6655

6656

It is simply two lengths of 1/4" copper tubing secured to a plate that attaches to the bottom of the wing. The same scheme could be used for pitot-static probes attached to a wing strut. The upper tube is plugged but drilled with several tiny holes and supplies static. The lower tube is the ram pitot source. This contraption worked so well on the Legal Eagle I duplicated it for the Fokker D.VII and the airspeed is dead on with a cheap Falcon airspeed indicator.

DaleB

09-04-2017, 11:23 AM

OK, that's pretty slick. I had seen pictures of several planes with dual pitot tubes like that and wondered why there were two. Now I guess I know. I'll have to remember that when I get to that stage on my own bipland.

Sam Buchanan

09-04-2017, 12:38 PM

I might add that if airspeed indication needs to be slightly tweaked with the pitot-static mast set-up, it is easily accomplished by slipping an o-ring over the static tube and gradually adjusting its location until airspeed is dialed in. But I didn't find that necessary with either of my installations.

martymayes

09-04-2017, 12:57 PM

the o-ring or metal washer is one of the best speed mods for the money in aviation. Of course, it doesn't really do anything but neither do many of the high $$$ speed mods.

Dana

09-05-2017, 03:34 AM

I suppose I could move the static line a third time; but I'm not optimistic.

I'd check the ASI with a manometer first. Probably it's OK but no point messing with static locations until you're sure.

Frank Giger

09-05-2017, 02:23 PM

Well, I'm calling her flight worthy, though there are a few things left.

http://www.darts-page.com/images/Nieuport/Nieuport_fixed.jpg

I did a bunch of taxi tests with the brakes, using actual testing methodology:

I took temp readings of the brake drums using an IR thermometer from cold (okay, that's relative, in the hanger, in shade, they were 88 degrees).

To see if there was drag on them (the wheels spin freely when lifted from the ground, but there's some flexing of the wheels with the weight of the plane on them moving over ground), I taxied about 500 yards at a normal taxi speed and let her roll to a stop after killing the engine. Twenty degree increase on the left drum, ten on the right. Slight squeak at the end of the roll.

Stopping required no adjustment of the tailwheel to stay straight.

500 feet taxi at normal speed, hard braking at the end, bringing me to the halt with the engine off in about 20 feet. Thirty degree increase on the left, twenty five on the right.

Braking required no adjustment of the tailwheel to stay straight.

1,000 feet faster taxi, brakes used once to slow, full brakes at the end with the engine at idle. She managed to stop in about fifty feet ( :D ), with some noise. Oddly enough, thirty-five degrees temp increase on left drum, thirty on the right. I'd of thought it would be higher.

Last test, after the drums cooled a bit, was holding from the start. She'll hold firm from idle to about an eighth of increase. After that, she'll roll - but not real well, and it's a gradual grabbing and not locking up though all the throttle I was willing to give her (about half). As expected, she did want to go left, but only a little.

One of the guys watching all this foolery brought up a good point after I got done: the drum is on the outside of the pads. As they heat up they expand away from the pads. In the band brakes, it was the other way - as the drum heated and expanded, it was into the band, actually increasing brake efficiency.

Small repairs to the gun - "heat shroud" replaced with a new bit of PVC pipe, new barrel to extend from it fabricated from a bit of spare tubing, crack in magazine glued and re-painted (it's not invisible). Everything re-painted, in fact, and I set it up to dry before I it gets put back together.

I have a small amount of oil leaking from around where the prop hub goes into the engine. This is really weird, as the spinner cup and the seal in front of it should make this pretty much a spot for casual oil. Then again, this is the first time I've really cranked up the RPM's since rebuilding her, and I need to check oil levels. I may have a bit too much in, as I had to add to account for the huge oil cooler.

In the VW, to really check the oil level one has to lift the tail to get the oil pan level.

Oh, and the airspeed indicator. As mentioned, it's wrong - reading 10 MPH too fast - and fixed it by moving the static port to the rear of the fuselage. Or I could pull out the pitot tube/static probe combo thingie and mount that...but I'm kind of enamored with the idea of the mechanical paddle-on-music-wire ASI that Rick Bennett came up with and will dink with that. Or just learn to live without one.

So it's now down to waiting for weather, a nice calm morning and a ground crew to start all over back at Flight Number One. My plan is the same as it was back then - go up, fly a close pattern, land.

But I got to say I got a huge thrill pushing the throttle forward and feeling the aircraft around me. If the winds hadn't been pushing, I'd of gone up yesterday.

Fokker Builder

09-05-2017, 07:28 PM

Yeah buddy
6665

Floatsflyer

09-05-2017, 08:52 PM

Good luck Frank, second time's the charm.

Frank Giger

09-07-2017, 08:06 PM

I had to go out to the airport as part of helping one of my EAA brothers move airplane parts (get a pickup truck if one wants friends, I always said) to his hangar, and got a few things done.

Gun assembled and new tubing supports made and painted. Bought a Loverboy CD out of the bargain bin and just danced around waiting for paint to dry.

My vane airspeed indicator (Mark I) looks to be a qualified success. The vane is a bit too large and she's reading too far too soon. I could replace the wire with something beefier, but I think I'll just trim the vane down a bit and see if that works out better.

Just waiting for my schedule, my ground crew's schedule, and the weather to all align. I'm treating it as Flight #1 all over again, after all.

cub builder

09-07-2017, 08:26 PM

Way to go Frank! It looks great! I assume it will make it into the air this weekend. Best of luck with it.

-Cub Builder

Frank Giger

09-08-2017, 07:55 PM

Support crew scheduled for the morning at first light; Lord willing we'll go around the patch.

Frank Giger

09-09-2017, 11:33 AM

Battery is toast - something is seriously wrong with it, so I removed it.

Good news - it demonstrated its defect in front of the hangar at start-up. So no flight. Which means it didn't crap out while in flight (electronic ignition).

Bad news - it's toast. Battery charger gave an error message when I hooked it up. Zero volts across the posts. Zero amps. Yet the battery was hot. Pulled it at 0800 and the darned thing was still hot at 1100, so there must be something wrong with the cells inside shorting with each other.

Good news - it's a motorcycle battery. Very inexpensive when viewed through the lens of aviation prices.

Bad news - with Irma working its way up Florida, going into Georgia and then making a fish hook into Alabama, it might be two weeks before the weather is amiable to flying again.

Floatsflyer

09-09-2017, 01:22 PM

It's always somethin'.

-Rosanne Rosanna Dana

Frank Giger

09-10-2017, 09:18 AM

Ain't that the truth.

But it gives me time to refine my vane style airspeed indicator and finish up on the gun.

Fokker Builder

09-14-2017, 01:16 PM

I thought you were all GPSed up for airspeed and stuff dude?

Dana

09-14-2017, 04:48 PM

I thought you were all GPSed up for airspeed and stuff dude?

GPS doesn't give airspeed...

Frank Giger

09-14-2017, 11:37 PM

Ah, Dana, with the CloudAhoy app, it does! It even looks at METAR data and calculates airspeed versus ground speed, as well as climb and descent rates. However, it does so after the fact.

Any ole aviation nav app will give at least ground speed, in addition to climb rates, altitude, etc. I think iFly does an estimate of airspeed, though.

Replaced the battery, marked out the cut down vane airspeed indicator, and mounted the gun today. I'll figure out mounting the airspeed indicator later.

So Saturday morning if the weather cooperates and my little Babette is willing, we'll go around the patch.

Frank Giger

09-16-2017, 11:37 AM

Well, the "one more thing" monster raised it's ugly head, but at least I solved why the last battery damned near melted.

The Diehl alternator is pumping pure juice to it. I was on taxi to the end of the runway and the voltmeter jumped with RPM's, going up to 16 volts before I backed off the throttle. If I'd of gunned it, the needle would have pegged for sure.

Back to the hangar. No flight. This is why I never invite spectators to initial test flights, or for the first few of them. It's a 50/50 chance they won't get to see anything but a lot of fussing.

A little troubleshooting later, and everything is grounded okay, with no change from what it was before. Disconnect the voltage regulator and it's a flat 12 volts on the battery. Run the engine and it's a flat 12v (as to be expected).*

Well, sh*t. So there's one of three things going on:

1) Voltage regulator is crap and needs to be replaced. Eighty bucks.

2) I need to run a ground directly from the Diehl case to the ground on the regulator. The instructions say "The regulator/rectifier unit must be properly grounded to the alternator. Simply placing the unit on standoffs located on the firewall may not be sufficient. A ground wire may be necessary." Apparently in putting things back together I wasn't holding my mouth right - mine is on a standoff to the firewall - and there's insufficient ground now. But it was okay before. Huh. Maybe two dollars.

3) There's a problem with the coils in the Diehl case. Highly unlikely, as if there was it wouldn't be producing juice, and it's not something that moves around and I was very careful with it when it was off the engine. The darned thing is dead simple:

http://www.greatplainsas.com/scdiehl.html

I called it a day, though, as I needed a decent Internet connection to do the research....plus I've found that when I attempt to repair a problem immediately after finding it, sometimes it turns into a fix that will require a larger repair later.

* My ground crew joked that I should just fly the plane the ten minutes around the pattern on just the battery. I guess I got bug eyed at the notion, as it brought big laughs. Flying an aircraft with the ignition on a total loss electrical system? I'm pretty cavalier, but damn.

Sam Buchanan

09-16-2017, 08:45 PM

* My ground crew joked that I should just fly the plane the ten minutes around the pattern on just the battery. I guess I got bug eyed at the notion, as it brought big laughs. Flying an aircraft with the ignition on a total loss electrical system? I'm pretty cavalier, but damn.

Frank, that really isn't such a far-fetched notion. The total-loss system has been the default setup on Legal Eagles since they appeared on the scene over twenty years ago. The 1/2 VW will run about four hours on a small battery (several flights in the Eagle!), a couple of hours would probably be very possible with your plane. Just watch the voltmeter and start thinking about winding up the flight when the battery gets around 10v. A few laps around the pattern should be low-stress.

But I don't blame you for wanting something in the system exciting the electrons. My Legal Eagle had a magneto. :)

Frank Giger

09-17-2017, 02:03 AM

Sam, both you and my crew were right - no way the battery would go flat in the ten minute run around the pattern and I could have put her to flight.

I can't cut corners like that for a simple reason - I'm a corner cutting kind of guy. "Gooder enough," and "we'll just make it work" have been my guiding light in my life, and somehow, incredibly, I've always come out on top.

So for the aircraft I have to be on guard for the "don't worry about it, it's nothing" mindset. That means being very strict about flight worthiness, and making a few rules about working on the plane and flying it. If it's not completely flight worthy, it's grounded.

I really, really, really like flying, and doubly so when it comes to this aircraft.

One rule I made early on is that I will make no flights on the same day as I make a meaningful* repair. This keeps me from rushing into a task, and gives me a second look at my work before taking it up in the air. It's a good rule for me to have, as more than once I've reviewed my work that I thought was done and spotted something amiss.

You know those guys that remake the same part three times because of some imperfection that really doesn't matter? I'm the opposite of that guy! The only parts I ever remade were totally wrong; if it was in tolerance and worked, no matter how ugly, on it went and I moved on. Eventually I'll fly up to your neck of the woods and after the third walk around you'll start spotting that here and there on the aircraft. There is loads of good workmanship on the plane, but very little excellence. :)

* Meaningful means anything that can effect a stage of flight. Replacing the axle would halt flying that day, but not re-lacing the combing around the cockpit.

DaleB

09-17-2017, 06:36 AM

Frank, I totally get what you're saying and I think it's a good rule. I have a couple of friends who have the ability (occasionally to an annoying degree) of glancing at the airplane from ten feet away and spotting any imperfection. If there's a wire not secured for more than a few inches, or a screw not tight, they can spot it immediately. I have to work hard to get that kind of detail, so I have to make a concious effort to slow down, walk away and come back for a second look.

Sam Buchanan

09-17-2017, 07:17 AM

So for the aircraft I have to be on guard for the "don't worry about it, it's nothing" mindset. That means being very strict about flight worthiness, and making a few rules about working on the plane and flying it. If it's not completely flight worthy, it's grounded.

I won't argue with that protocol, you made a good decision.

Fokker Builder

09-17-2017, 08:53 AM

Very nice discipline

CHICAGORANDY

09-17-2017, 10:31 AM

"One rule I made early on is that I will make no flights on the same day as I make a meaningful* repair"

Boy oh boy...are those ever 'words to live by' in more things than aviation..

Kudos

Frank Giger

09-20-2017, 04:04 PM

Running an additional ground from the Diehl case to the ground of the regulator worked a treat! Steady voltage.

Now back to waiting on weather and crew...

Frank Giger

09-23-2017, 09:31 AM

She went up and around this morning!

No pics or video - I didn't have the mind to set up the GoPro, as I was going over the plane closely and when she was ready for flight, went!

Weather was still with some patches of fog. In fact, about 500 feet from the end of the runway was a wall about 1,000 feet high, and when I saw it taxied back to talk to my spotter.

"Hmmm, fog on that end. Whatcha reckon?"

Rusty looked that way, squinted, and said "That's a long way down there..."

And we both laughed.

The runway is 6,000 feet long. I need about 500 feet to take off, and about the same to land.

So I took off pretty cleanly, if a bit longer than normal - she didn't quite leap in the air as before - did a slow climb to build up airspeed to about 1,300 AGL, did a gentle turn until I was going the other way on the downwind, and looked at the runway. By design I was just about over it, and there was more runway behind me than in front.

One of the things I've been doing not so well is my approaches to land. Way too shallow and way too fast. This time I pulled throttle just past the runway end and did a nice curve to the threshold, letting the plane sink in a good glide down to it. Tiny goose at the end for a not bad wheel landing.

Rigging seems okay, though she's got a little pitch up hands free at full throttle - still very much a two finger aircraft on the stick, though, so I'm not too concerned. It might resolve itself at cruise.

Brakes are pathetically weak, which is okay by me.

Engine timing is <this> close, but off a bit. She ran fine, turning 3K RPM's on the climb and downwind before I throttled back, but it's not quite there. I killed the engine at the end* and she kept running for six or seven turns of the prop. So something to work on.

* I have just one switch, the master, and she's electronic ignition. I have to chase down solutions to this, but my money says it's a timing issue. Also, I should be turning 3200 RPM's on take-off. Part of this just may be breaking in the new engine.

rwanttaja

09-23-2017, 09:33 AM

Congrats, Frank. What was the total number of days, from turn-over to first flight?

Ron Wanttaja

wyoranch

09-23-2017, 09:48 AM

Frank,
Congratulations! I want to wish you the best.
Rick

Frank Giger

09-23-2017, 10:16 AM

Congrats, Frank. What was the total number of days, from turn-over to first flight?

Ron Wanttaja

My "no probem, gimme three months" repairs took one year, three weeks to flight. :)

Floatsflyer

09-23-2017, 04:37 PM

My "no probem, gimme three months" repairs took one year, three weeks to flight. :)

Apparently time does not fly when you're trying to fly. Congrats Frank, you persevered and you're back in the air. Please keep it right side up from now on. 😀

Bill Ladd

09-24-2017, 05:43 AM

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Frank Giger

09-26-2017, 04:37 PM

A little walk around video I made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiZTN8N9jDs&t

CHICAGORANDY

09-26-2017, 07:18 PM

Terrific looking bird - sincere kudos.

Frank Giger

10-10-2017, 09:45 AM

Exercise in discipline today.

Went to the airport to not only check on the general state of things after the storm, but do some minor maintenance.

The forecast was no wind, but low clouds. No flying, just work, was my decision before heading out.

The epoxy on the fuel tank worked a treat - I no longer have a sheen of gasoline on the lower neck of it next to the battery. While that removes some minor sense of adventure in flying, I'll just have to live with it.

I had used the fuel pump to empty the gas tank, and so the battery had to be recharged.

One of my tires was flat, so I replaced the inner tube.

The gun's front bottom bolts looked kinda ugly sticking out there, so I made covers for them. Completely cosmetic, the bolts are firm and robust. The rear support tube joint was a bit rough, so I bent the tabs to a better angle and placed nuts on the insides of the center section to reduce vibration. Not that I saw it wiggle in flight, it's just a simple means of beefing it up.

Double checked my fuel bobber, as it seems a bit low with five gallons in it. It's bobbing fine; maybe I've needed to extend the rod the whole time, and adding another three gallons really brought it up. Going to have to think about that. It needs to bottom out at the three gallon mark (one hour flight time) or maybe two, not the five.

Meanwhile, the clouds were slowly lifting and breaking up. Two thousand feet. No, don't look, the're sucker holes and there's a lower wall over there. Two five hundred, with it looking pretty good to the west. Winds are almost nil on the ground. But something is moving the low clouds, and it ain't magic.

I have a little personal rule that if I call a no-go for flight from the start, that's it. No flight. Nobody is running up to me with a kidney in a cooler for a child's transplant, after all, and it's a hobby. I'm naturally kind of risky, so I have to really watch myself; without a system of personal rules for risk to follow I have been known to be foolhardy - it is through the grace of God that I survived long enough to see the wisdom of risk management.

Talledega race week, so my airport has already been invaded. On the upside, they cut the grass. Hell, they bailed it, it was tall enough. The front of the FBO looks like a car dealership with rental vehicles. RV's are starting to fill the areas across from the race track, so traffic will be crazy soon. Well, slow and stupid. The NASCAR guys that make up the airport board and folks sporting lanyards with ID's on them were seen today clearly checking things out, and judging by the looks I got from them, us local yokels aren't favored sons. The place where they put the boarding pass machine was being cleared in the FBO.

Things get pretty fancy for a few days twice a year.

I need to have a few weeks of good weather to complete my test flight requirements and move one airport over. St. Claire County (Pell City) is much better, with friendly folks and management that isn't a huge corporation taking care of a field only because they are under under legal obligation to do so.

1600vw

10-10-2017, 10:06 AM

Awesome looking bird. Rim tape can be your friend with those style rims. Get the right width.

Tony

Sam Buchanan

10-10-2017, 05:54 PM

. I killed the engine at the end* and she kept running for six or seven turns of the prop. So something to work on.

* I have just one switch, the master, and she's electronic ignition. I have to chase down solutions to this, but my money says it's a timing issue. Also, I should be turning 3200 RPM's on take-off. Part of this just may be breaking in the new engine.

Frank, give the induction system a careful look, a small leak that allows the engine to run lean at idle can make it "diesel" when you kill the ignition. Make sure the carb to manifold connection and all the connections in the intake manifold are tight. An airleak at the carb bowl gasket can also cause this problem.

Yes, PLR should be a much more conducive aerodrome for our type of flying. I really miss the great restaurant (Sammy's, I still have the t-shirt....) that was on the field before the owner lost his life in a Breezy accident.