Getting a type certificate?

[Brian.Flynn]

The subject is loaded, no?

So they always say to do what you love, right? I can't think of a better full time job, assuming I could make it work financially, than building airplanes for people, especially a simple design that might take a month or two to build and would sell for under 50k. As we all know, if you don't follow 21.191(g), then the choice becomes an Ex/Ex exhibition certification, but that isn't what I'm thinking about. There doesn't seem to be a bridge from amateur to professional builder. You might have built a dozen RV-7s in your life and be better at it than anyone on the on the planet, but you can't build one with the intent to sell it to someone else.

So that got me thinking about TCs. What does it really take to get a TC? I know it's FAA form 8110-12, a single page, you just fill it out and you're done, right :) I can't find what's required to support it...anyone know? What kind of testing, etc is needed?

Yes, I know that the supply chain + manufacturing + record keeping is a whole different thing, but one step at a time. I work in supply chain, I've got a fair idea of what's involved there.

Thoughts? That I'm completely crazy?

this is way in the future if ever, I could say there's a lot of runway in front of me, but I haven't even started a preflight yet. Just thought that someone out there has had this idea before too.

[Bill Berson]

Unfortunately it isn't likely to recoup certification costs on a $50k airplane.
Cant recall any in past 50 years.

Special Light Sport Airplane is less cost to comply. ($150-250k has been mentioned)

A major Kitplane company told me that Kitplanes (no certification cost) makes more sense for a limited market.
And liabilty is much less of a problem.

It is sad that manufacture of affordable airplanes ( and engines, avionics, etc.) is virtually impossible.

[FlyingRon]

It's not even cost effective to reestablish production on aircraft that have TYPE certificates that are out of production. The Navion type certificate has been bouncing around since the seventies, but nobody has built any new Navions. The fee the FAA is small change. A small fortune is going to be spent on DER time and even a larger fortune amassing the engineering and test information required for the submission.

Hell, it costs us more than it was probably financially viable to just get a PMA on a bloody fuel valve that's already been manufactured.

[Byron J. Covey]

A major Kitplane company told me that Kitplanes (no certification cost) makes more sense for a limited market.
And liabilty is much less of a problem.




A key strategy is to avoid having any tangible assets held by the corporation. That way, lawyers will shy away from contingency-funded law suits. And if there is a lost liability law suit, the company goes bankrupt, the reopens as another corporation with the same people.


BJC

[Bob Dingley]

If you not yet done so, go to the FAA home page and punch up FAR 23. Read it. Every paragraph. BTW, there is also a circular that directs how to comply with FAR 23.

[Infidel]

Aside from all the other obstacles, building an airplane/aircraft in a month or two is virtually impossible. Granted, a work force could be assembled but offering the aircraft for under 50k wouldn't cover it.

[Kurt Flunkn]

The subject is loaded, no?

So that got me thinking about TCs. What does it really take to get a TC? I know it's FAA form 8110-12, a single page, you just fill it out and you're done, right :) I can't find what's required to support it...anyone know? What kind of testing, etc is needed?

Yes, I know that the supply chain + manufacturing + record keeping is a whole different thing, but one step at a time. I work in supply chain, I've got a fair idea of what's involved there.

Thoughts? That I'm completely crazy?




I think you are crazy... but in a good way!

Assuming you are planning on using the current regs:

FAR part 23 covers the design requirements for the aircraft (such as piston singles)
FAR part 21 covers certification of products and parts.
Part 21 sub-part B covers Type Certificates
Part 21 sub-part F covers production under a Type Certificate
Part 21 sub-part G covers production certificates


You will spend a lot of time dealing with your local FAA ACO / MIDO offices and I would roughly estimate the certification costs for a piston single in the $25M range.

The prior regs which most GA aircraft were certified under was CAR 3. CAR 3 was much simpler to the point that back in the early 60s Ray Stits certified the "Stits SA-9A" Sky-Coupe. See TCDS 4A31.

As an entry into the world of a PAH holder, you might want to consider getting PMA for replacement parts. PMA is covered FAR Part 21, sub-part K. Your background in supply chain would be very useful in the PMA world.

Good Luck!

[Brian.Flynn]

Well, this is looking like yet another reason aviation is dying in the US....the FAA is killing it. I suppose that's one way to make flying safer. If nobody can fly, then there are no accidents, right?

Thanks, this is helpful. I'm a believer that lowering the cost of airplanes is absolutely necessary for GA to thrive and it's just a fun thing to do.

just so you know, if I can make this work, you'll all be quoted as the guys who tried to tell me it couldn't be done :) - lol

[L16 Pilot]

Kind of reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend who built and has owned a Kit Fox for many years. I asked him "how does the liability go when and if you sell it"? He said he didn't intend to sell it but some had told him to part it out and others said that considering the fact it's been flown for hundreds of hours it's pretty well proven.

[martymayes]

So that got me thinking about TCs. What does it really take to get a TC? I know it's FAA form 8110-12, a single page, you just fill it out and you're done, right :) I can't find what's required to support it...anyone know? What kind of testing, etc is needed?

One of Dave Thurston's books, I believe it's Design for Flying has a chapter on the FAA process for obtaining type and production certificates.

[martymayes]

Well, this is looking like yet another reason aviation is dying in the US....the FAA is killing it. I suppose that's one way to make flying safer. If nobody can fly, then there are no accidents, right?

Thanks, this is helpful. I'm a believer that lowering the cost of airplanes is absolutely necessary for GA to thrive and it's just a fun thing to do.

Well, there is the Light Sport category where the FAA has very little involvement in the process. One thing the ongoing ~12 yr experiment has shown is that unfortunately, there is no such thing as an inexpensive new airplane.