Pros / Cons of Homebuilt vs. certified

[Gator88]

Hi All - I am new to EAA and am hoping for some insight. I have been flying for about 15 years and currently fly a Cherokee Six. With my kids about ready to go to college, my mission will be changing in the next few years and I am looking to get into something a little smaller and faster. I am considering either building an RV-10 or buying a certificated aircraft (maybe a Mooney or something Mooney-like). My question is this: other than the ability to do my own maintenance, what are the pros / cons of having a homebuilt vs. buying a certificated aircraft? My wife and I are talking about making some flights to the Bahamas, and I have read that taking a homebuilt into another country may have its challenges. Any thoughts on this? Are there any real disadvantages to having an RV vs. a certificated aircraft?

[Sam Buchanan]

Hi All - I am new to EAA and am hoping for some insight. I have been flying for about 15 years and currently fly a Cherokee Six. With my kids about ready to go to college, my mission will be changing in the next few years and I am looking to get into something a little smaller and faster. I am considering either building an RV-10 or buying a certificated aircraft (maybe a Mooney or something Mooney-like). My question is this: other than the ability to do my own maintenance, what are the pros / cons of having a homebuilt vs. buying a certificated aircraft? My wife and I are talking about making some flights to the Bahamas, and I have read that taking a homebuilt into another country may have its challenges. Any thoughts on this? Are there any real disadvantages to having an RV vs. a certificated aircraft?

Welcome to the EAA!

You have asked a question that has complex answers, many of which will be dependent on your particular background and expectations.

Your stated choices (building an RV-10 or buying a Mooney) are poles apart in every way possible. It will be easier for others to address your question if you tell us why you are even considering leaving the certificated community. That will provide insights into your goals and aircraft mission needs. What you might consider disadvantages of an aircraft with an experimental airworthiness certificate could be considered wonderful advantages by many of us.

1) How comfortable are you with leaving the tight regulatory environment of certificated aviation?

2) Do you have the mechanical background to build and maintain a full-featured aircraft and avionics?

3) Is your personality suited to seeing a multi-year project through to completion?

4) This one is huge----does your spouse support the two of you flying in a home-made airplane?

5) And related----does your spouse support you spending huge amounts of time and money on the multi-year project away from family activities?

Many of us have encountered and embraced the above challenges, but not everyone can.

By the way, many experimental aircraft fly to the Bahamas each year with no difficulty.

[Gator88]

Thanks for your response and indulging the "newbie". My basic thought process is this: I want a 4-place aircraft that is faster than my Six. What I see in common between the RV-10 and Mooney are that both are speedy, 4-place single engine aircraft. Both would be more efficient than the Six. Both would handle my new mission of mainly carrying myself and my wife, but occasionally carrying an additional 2 people. The Six is great for carrying practically anything that we can stuff into it, but I won't need that capability for much longer. What I like about the RV is the short field capability and the efficiency of the fuel burn to speed. I like the fact that I could almost get the performance of a Mooney or Cirrus in an RV-10, but in a more efficient package at a lower cost. In what ways are you thinking the RV and Mooney are such different aircraft - other than one being certified?

[Sam Buchanan]

In what ways are you thinking the RV and Mooney are such different aircraft - other than one being certified?

There is a HUGE difference......you have to build the RV-10. :)

It might be helpful to address the questions I posed in my first response to see if you are interested in building and maintaining your own aircraft. If the answer is positive, you need to get acquainted with local RVers and builders to see if you think you will be comfortable in the experimental community.

Choosing an aircraft on specs is easy--what is more difficult is deciding how it fits your lifestyle and personality.

[Gator88]

Let me add to my response:

1. I am fairly comfortable leaving the world of certificated aircraft, but that is part of my original questions. At this point, I don't know what I don't know. My current thinking is that the regulatory environment won't be much different from a flying perspective.

2. I am fairly mechanically inclined. I currently do as much maintenance as is allowed on my Six and have a good relationship with an A&P who helps me and checks my work.

3. That is a big question that I will definitely have to consider. For now, let's assume I finish the project. What I am looking for is are there any real advantages/disadvantages to owning and operating an RV vs. a certificated aircraft. Those answers will definitely factor into whether or not I would even start the project. Another option that I have considered is purchasing a built RV-10.

4. My wife, the boss, is good with a homebuilt.

5. This is where the option of purchasing an RV-10 comes into play.

Thanks again for the response. I look forward to hearing from the brain trust!

[Sam Buchanan]

Let me add to my response:

1. I am fairly comfortable leaving the world of certificated aircraft, but that is part of my original questions. At this point, I don't know what I don't know. My current thinking is that the regulatory environment won't be much different from a flying perspective.

2. I am fairly mechanically inclined. I currently do as much maintenance as is allowed on my Six and have a good relationship with an A&P who helps me and checks my work.

3. That is a big question that I will definitely have to consider. For now, let's assume I finish the project. What I am looking for is are there any real advantages/disadvantages to owning and operating an RV vs. a certificated aircraft. Those answers will definitely factor into whether or not I would even start the project. Another option that I have considered is purchasing a built RV-10.

4. My wife, the boss, is good with a homebuilt.

5. This is where the option of purchasing an RV-10 comes into play.

Thanks again for the response. I look forward to hearing from the brain trust!

Those are good answers...now we can get to the nuts and bolts of your inquiry. :)

You may fly the RV-10 anywhere in US airspace you can fly the Mooney. There may be restrictions in some other countries but I think they can be overcome with appropriate paperwork. Others more knowledgeable than I can chime in on this one.

Operationally, if you purchase a flying RV-10 and have most maintenance performed by an A&P the RV won't be much different than care and feeding of the Mooney. If you want to be more involved, you will be legally entitled to perform all airframe and powerplant work on your RV if you desire, the A&P is only needed for the condition inspection (annual) logbook entry.

For some pilots, the idea of an aircraft that hasn't received FAA regulatory blessing in every aspect is daunting. For many of us...it is liberating. :)

[Dana]

One potential issue (if you buy a used homebuilt) is whether your A&P is comfortable with signing off the annual condition inspection. Some A&P's will, many won't.

[RickLuna]

I think each homebuilder would have slightly different motivations and their own sets of pros and cons for building. Some people are build-a-holics (I mean that in a respectful and good way); they may build multiple aircraft simply for the enjoyment and satisfaction of the experience. For me, I just want to learn something new, and maybe save a little money getting and maintaining an airworthy mission-specific craft. At the moment I am building an auto conversion (Corvair) engine. I am definitely learning new things in this process. I am now looking for an LSA kit with similar specs to the old Zenith 601XL (or the current CH 650) and am looking forward to building it and learning, hands-on, how to work with aluminum (I'm more comfortable with wood, so this is something very new to me). Building will qualify me to perform all future maintenance and repair on both the airframe and engine, saving a lot of money in the long run. I have more time than money, so the build route is really the only viable option for me. One big deal is time. it can take about 1,200 hours, give or take, to complete a homebuilt aircraft. There are some ways to shorten things up, if you have the means. One thing is for sure. Everyone I have seen, or read about, that is successful in completing a flying craft have been motivated, consistent, and diligent. Because of this, homebuilding is not for everyone. I think it just comes down to absolutely knowing your own personal motivations. I am enjoying the learning, and I like building things and getting my hands dirty, and think it will be awesome to fly something that I built. Building is totally different from simply buying a vehicle or appliance, so a lot of inner evaluation about personal values and motivation is essential - if this soul searching isn't honestly done the probability of a successfully completed project is very small. I think this is why so few projects actually get completed. Building anything is a quest; aircraft homebuilding is an endeavor in kinship to the first fully motivated American Homebuilders like the Wright Brothers - thus the phrase "Learn, Build, Fly" ... as opposed to "Shop, Buy, Fly". Nothing really wrong with either philosophy - depending on the motivations and values of the individual. Wish you the best, whatever way you go...

[martymayes]

5. This is where the option of purchasing an RV-10 comes into play.

And one of the cons there is that the market is somewhat limited. There's not a lot of RV-10's for sale at any given time so a buyer may not have a lot of choice.

[Sam Buchanan]

What I am looking for is are there any real advantages/disadvantages to owning and operating an RV vs. a certificated aircraft. Those answers will definitely factor into whether or not I would even start the project.

Let me take one more cut at this because I know this subject can be overwhelming when you first peer into the experimental universe.

Advantages of RV-10 (some of these are dependent on whether or not you build or buy...I said this was kinda complicated.... :) )

1) A lot of performance for the price
2) Access to reasonably priced, amazing avionics that have not yet trickled down to the certificated community at less than breath-taking prices.
3) Legality of owner-performed maintenance.
4) The largest, most enthusiastic, well-informed community of owners/builders anywhere. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/index.php
5) Excellent factory support
6) Outstanding flight dynamics
7) Freedom from stifling ($$$$$$$) regulatory restrictions of the certificated universe
8) Immeasurable pride of ownership, especially if you build it

Disadvantages of the RV-10:
1) You gotta either build it or buy from a limited pool of aircraft
2) Each RV-10 is unique, no type certificate.....buyer must be very informed.
3) Not every potential passenger, family member or A&P will share your enthusiasm for experimental aircraft....some will think you have a death wish if you fly in one (they all have heard of John Denver.........)
4) Uhhhhhhh..can't think of any others....

The best advice I can offer is for you to get acquainted with local RVers. We are quite proficient at providing $140,000 rides in our planes. ;) This also gives you insight into the lifestyle of the experimental community and differences from those who depend on the gov't to assure the safety of their ride. Experimental is for independent-minded individuals who want to broaden their scope of aviation knowledge and who are self-starters and not afraid to take the path less traveled.

It is a great ride!

[Todd copeland]

I think an important part of experimental has been barely touched on here. Performance. Plain and simple, performance in homebuilts almost always far exceeds the certified world. Case in point, my friends Symphony. Compared to my Glastar its a slug in every way. The symphony is a certified version of my Glastar and yet it cruises 25knots slower, takes off in twice the distance and climbs at half the rate with less payload and less range. And on top of that it has to have an annual by an a&p with an inspection certification. Then, the repairs and maintainable is four times as expensive just for parts. I had my fuel injection servo rebuilt on my io320 and paid $800.00 for the exact same rebuild by a certified shop that charges $4,000 for the same job with a yellow tag!
Then, as mentioned, freedom. You are free to do make sense things to your experimental like LED lights. Couldn't even put them in the cessna I had, the A&E wouldn't let me replace the dome lights with them! These silly rules are gone with experimental aircrFt. The downside of this is that you are also allowed to do stupid things with your airplane as well. As long as you feel confident you won't do foolish things to your experimental aircraft I think you are likely to be very happy with the move. Welcome to our world.

[Bill Berson]

Resale value for many homebuilts can be low. I don't know about the RV -10.
Insurance is different. Contact your insurance agent.

[dusterpilot]

There's a lot of good information here for you. I've owned Cessnas, Mooneys & Pipers and a couple of experimental biplanes. I currently own one certified aircraft and 2 experimentals. The certified aircraft will cost more to maintain but the experimental will be easier to maintain and modify with state-of-the-art gizmos. The experimental will cost significantly more to insure. I tried to build once. Took on a project someone else had started to build. I quickly learned that I'd rather be flying than building and there are a lot of good flying experimentals available out there. And there are some good "nearly finished" projects that could reduce costs and shorten the build time (and some real junk projects with poor craftsmanship to avoid). I know a lot of builders. I don't know any who have built an experimental in less than 2 years and I know a LOT more who took 8-10 years to complete their project. I know a few who built to the 80 or 90% point before they died. Can you afford to keep your plane and continue flying while you build? Can you afford to rent while building? Are you willing to quit flying for several years while you build? If you don't fly while you build, what's your plan for regaining proficiency before making your first flight? Lots of things to consider. You're off to a good start by seeking opinions and looking at all the angles before making a decision.

[Gator88]

Thanks to everyone for throwing in your 2 cents - this has been very helpful in getting my arms around the experimental world. The more research I do, the more likely it is that, if I go experimental, I will probably buy or do a builder assist. Like dusterpilot, I would rather be flying than building. From all the input, it seems that the biggest differences between the experimental world and certificated world lies in what you can do to your airplane. There doesn't seem to be a big difference from the flying perspective. I think the next thing I need to do is to find an RV-10 that I can touch, kick the tires, and fly. The numbers look great on this plane, but I need to touch and smell it before I go any further.

Maybe this question belongs in another thread, but I'll ask it here to start: Does anyone know anything about Saint Aviation in Dunnellon, Fl? They do builder assists on RV-10's.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me get a start on my research into the world of experimentals.

[Sam Buchanan]

The more research I do, the more likely it is that, if I go experimental, I will probably buy or do a builder assist.

Please be advised that when you register your RV-10 you will need to sign an FAA form stating that at least 51% of your plane was amateur-built. Make sure you don't receive enough professional assistance that it will be impossible to truthfully sign the form, otherwise you are looking at a huge fine and/or an expensive lawn ornament. It is easy to violate this requirement with a combination of modern, highly-fabricated kits and "builder assist"....the FAA is proactive in this regard.

Best wishes for an enjoyable pursuit of experimental aviation!

[Gator88]

Will do. Thanks again for everyone's input!

[Ron Blum]

You've been given some really good advice by all of those above, but you mentioned that you would rather fly than build. Although it is financially less expensive to build an airplane, it does take a lot of time. Remember that 2,000 hours is a full year of full time work at a normal job. A good solution, though, would be to get your family involved. Would your wife or one or two of your children be interested in helping? If the project is not at your house, are you willing to drive to the airport every day to put in an extra 8-hour day? As was previously mention, people that complete building an airplane are a small but incredible group of people.

To address a little more of your initial questions, certified airplanes are built with a full-time quality control system in place (in other words all airplanes are built to certified type data and meet specifications when they leave the factory). Experimentals (generically speaking) are more fun to fly (lighter control feel, quicker response, ...) than a certified airplane (due to the regulations). On the flip side of that, most experimentals are not great long cross country airplanes (unless you put in an autopilot, too). Very few experimentals are approved for flight into known icing. I would strongly suggest flying an RV-10 before you buy/build one (but I know people that haven't done that).

A good, used Mooney is less expensive than building new ... and faster, and you get to fly the day you buy it.

Building, especially with someone else, is extremely rewarding. There is nothing like a first flight.

Bottom line: The decision is very dependent on the individual. Just keep flying; it is hard to go back if you get out of it for a while.

[Brian.Flynn]

Just want to comment that this is a good thread for me too - my first post.

I've hit a point in my life where private circumstances are putting a serious financial crunch on my ability to fly and probably will for the next 7-10 years. I've been interested in building for a while, but I've been having too much fun flying. So now I'm taking a multi-year break and building is an option. I can't afford to drop 40k at once, but I probably can spend a few thousand a year for part of an airplane.

In any case, it's been good to read the dynamics are basically what I thought. I'm nowhere near pulling the trigger on building, but I'm encouraged knowing I'm on the right path toward it. I'm planning on getting in contact with the local group and I'll go from there.

Thank you to all for the good information.

[Ron Blum]

I can't afford to drop 40k at once, but I probably can spend a few thousand a year for part of an airplane.

Brian: You're a perfect example of doing it right. If you think you'd like a metal airplane, a new (or cheaper used) RV tail kit is out there for you, and there are RV builder groups everywhere. Also, the local EAA chapter will know of people restoring Cubs, Pietenpols, Stinsons, Taylorcrafts, etc. that you can watch or help with. All at little or no cost to you. There is a large percentage of people that have bought a kit or plans and never completed the airplane ... sad for them, but potentially good (cheaper) for you. Building an airplane is a large commitment of both time and money, and will definitely change family/friends relationships ... for the good if they too get involved :o)

[Sam Buchanan]

Building an airplane is a large commitment of both time and money, and will definitely change family/friends relationships ... for the good if they too get involved :o)

This is a point that needs to be amplified...in the positive. Most certificated aircraft owners have access to their type clubs and these are great sources of info and social enjoyment.

But after being in the experimental community for nearly 25 years I have come to the conclusion that builders enjoy a level of camaraderie that goes beyond just owning similar aircraft. Each custom-built aircraft is the product of hundreds of decisions by the builder, each fork in the road adding to an accumulation of choices that reflects the personality of the builder. My RV-6, and the other aircraft I have built, are an extension of me. Only fellow builders can fully appreciate how much of ourselves went into our journey toward transformation of bits and pieces into a machine that carries us aloft.

Experimental aircraft have led me to remarkable places and people I would have never experienced otherwise. I still occasionally see a builder who is a "lone wolf" and am led to wonder if that builder really understands not only the technical resources they have ignored but the life-enhancing relationships.

Building an airplane is a large enough project that we learn much about ourselves. Enjoy the trip!

[Brian.Flynn]

Brian: You're a perfect example of doing it right.

Like I said, good to hear. I'm going to try to learn more about options, try to get into a project locally and go from there. I'm not even looking to buy a rudder kit right yet.

I read through all of Frank Giger's thread on "Building a Nieuport 11"...it's a huge task and I love the WWI replicas, but I want to see other projects and get the scale of them in person.

[Frank Giger]

That's one of the reasons I made that thread!

The best thing to do is visit your local EAA chapter(s) and ask for a visit to their builds or built aircraft. One thing I didn't fully appreciate when starting on my airplane building adventure is just how open and friendly the build community is. Whether it's a little putt-putt one man open cockpit plane like mine or a four place RV, everyone I've met has taken the time to explain what they did and how they did it.

Everyone has different reasons for building. One of the big things for me was affordability. I'm just not willing to pay for an already built aircraft (ability also figures in! :) ), and since I was going to build an airplane it might as well be a representation of a WWI aircraft! The complete lack of skills didn't deter me, as the thread proves (whole lots of mistakes and "gooder enough" stuff in there).

Then again I'm flying for the pure pleasure of it - my "mission" is to look at cows, rivers, trees, and fields from 500-1,000 feet AGL on a pretty day. No more, no less. And I'm so jealous of this pleasure that I really don't want to bother with sharing it. If my mission was expanded even a jot I think I'd of gone for a PPL and a C150 or C172.

A friend of mine said there are two types of builders - pilots who make airplanes to fly, and airplane builders who are also pilots.* There's more than a grain of truth to it, and both sets have a lot to offer to the other. However, if the need is to fly right now with a minimum of fuss, buying a plane that's all put together is usually the way to go.

* There's a third category, aircraft restorers. I have the deepest respect for them, as repairing things to exacting specifications and ensuring everything is just so is a helluvalot harder than making something from scratch and modifying things as needed.

[Gator88]

You've been given some really good advice by all of those above, but you mentioned that you would rather fly than build. Although it is financially less expensive to build an airplane, it does take a lot of time. Remember that 2,000 hours is a full year of full time work at a normal job. A good solution, though, would be to get your family involved. Would your wife or one or two of your children be interested in helping? If the project is not at your house, are you willing to drive to the airport every day to put in an extra 8-hour day? As was previously mention, people that complete building an airplane are a small but incredible group of people.

To address a little more of your initial questions, certified airplanes are built with a full-time quality control system in place (in other words all airplanes are built to certified type data and meet specifications when they leave the factory). Experimentals (generically speaking) are more fun to fly (lighter control feel, quicker response, ...) than a certified airplane (due to the regulations). On the flip side of that, most experimentals are not great long cross country airplanes (unless you put in an autopilot, too). Very few experimentals are approved for flight into known icing. I would strongly suggest flying an RV-10 before you buy/build one (but I know people that haven't done that).

A good, used Mooney is less expensive than building new ... and faster, and you get to fly the day you buy it.

Building, especially with someone else, is extremely rewarding. There is nothing like a first flight.

Bottom line: The decision is very dependent on the individual. Just keep flying; it is hard to go back if you get out of it for a while.

Great feedback, Ron. I'm a pretty analytical person, so believe me, I've played the scenarios in my head a few million times as well as worked the numbers. You are right, I could buy a Mooney right now for roughly the same amount or less that I will spend on the RV-10. The big things that keep bringing me back to the RV is its efficiency and short field landing capability. My wife and I plan to spend a time in the Bahamas when the kids are gone off to college (2 more years to get the last one out), so unknown runway lengths become a factor. Also, I think the people on this forum have infected me with the experimental aircraft bug. I like the freedom and flexibility of the experimental aircraft as well as the friendliness, camaraderie, willingness to help each other, and sense of community that is exemplified in this forum. I think I'm hooked!

[Ron Blum]

I think I'm hooked!
Now to let you know "the rest of the story" ... I was first "hooked" at Oshkosh '76 and Paul's "Can Do" attitude. My first job, a "few" years later, was at EAA (autofuel STCs) and in Paul Poberezny's garage/workshop making the drawings for the Pober "Junior Ace" and "Super Ace." Over the course of my career, so far, I have been blessed with many first flights, which each and every one is an incredible event. I have also worked for and with some very incredible people and teams. I am currently the chief engineer at Mooney International-Chino. I am very proud of what our family here has done on the all-new M10. Look forward to great things to come ...

[Bill Greenwood]

A well flown Mooney M 20 J, 201 can land on fairly short runways, 1800 feet or so, just come in at the right speed, about 70 and then power off and flare.
If you come in at 90 you need the same 1800 or so to land, plus another 1800 that you are going to float past while waiting to slow down.
You can buy a decent 201 or early Bonanza for perhaps $75,000.
But they are not going to be the station wagon that a Cherokee 6 is. They will be faster and more nimble.

For many people, building is one thing, flying is another. Do you really want to and have the time and discipline to spend 3 years or more building one?
A cheap, simple build airplane is not going to be all around better than a 201 or Bo. And you can build something fast and sleek and even acro capable, but it is not going to be cheap or quick and may be more demanding to fly with high wing loading, and sensitive pitch controls and fast landing speed, Ie Lancair, etc.

Maybe you should buy a 201 or other airplane to fly and if you really want to, use your spare time to build something. You can read or talk to people and most of all go and beg/buy some demo flights in a few that you are interested in.
One way or the other, welcome and go fly and fly safely.

I have a lot of experience with Kerrvile, Mooneys , I don't know anything about Chinese ones, except I sure would not want my plane to smell like a stinking diesel like the garbage truck.

[pittsdriver3]

The RV 10 is a great airplane that will outperform a Mooney 201 in every aspect. Van's kits and instructions are excellent and if you have any mechanical ability at all you can build one. Once you have it done you will know everything about the airplane and systems and will be able to do any repairs and inspections. With a quick build kit and some dedication you should be able to build one in 2 years. It requires a lifestyle change but we all watch too much TV anyway. I did my RV7 quickbuild in 14 months and I worked full time at my regular job and around 25hrs a week on the RV. I have flown 2 RV 10s and they are very docile and a roomy rock solid cruiser. I also have around 100 hrs in a Mooney 201 and it is good at going cross country with a decent load fairley fast on 10-12 gal hr. It flys like a truck and is no fun at all to just go yanking and banking. Out of all the types I've flown it is probably my least favorite airplane. Don

[Bill Greenwood]

I have over a 1000 hours in 2 Mooneys and I have never heard anyone else say they "fly like a trucK" . As for as yanking and banking, a 201 is a normal gen av airplane, and good for going places. It it not an acro plane. Do you do acro in the RV-10? Vans website says "it is not an acrobatic airplane", but maybe you just ignore that. The 201. burns a whole lot less than 12 gal an hour, as a matter of fact it burns about 9 gal an hour leaned out at 7500 feet in cruise and that is at about 150 to 155 knots true. I flew mine to OSH and over 2/3 of the U S.
If you can build an airplane it 14 months you would be a lot faster than most, I think, and I really doubt if a beginner can do it anywhere nearly that quick.

[Brian.Flynn]

Don, did we talk at Sanford, NC one day a few months back in the Wings clubhouse? I met someone who built an RV-7 they kept in a hangar at TTA. I know there'a couple down there.

I'm partial toward the cost of the Airdrome planes, but I think if the money wasn't an issue, I'd probably lean toward a RV-7a. It's hard to compare 20k over 2-3 years against 60k+ in a shorter time. Maybe as a second plane?

[rleffler]

It appears that I'm the only RV-10 builder in this conversation, so my opinions will be biased.

i would be more than happy to answer any specific questions about the Rv-10, build process, or ongoing maintenance and performance. For those considering the rv-10, I can probably direct you to where a local rv-10 may be located. It's a small community and we get to know many of the builders over the years.

drop me an email. I don't get on here as often as I used to. It's blocked from my work pc.

[Ron Blum]

What I like about this particular forum is that nobody is cutting down the other airplanes. It is a pet peeve of mine that people talk down about Experimentals and others talk down about spam cans, but in reality, they are different products (and typically with a different mission/purpose) ... and definitely with different owners in a different market. The bottom line is that we need each other; we are not making enough airplanes today, and flying has a bad reputation of being unsafe and only those that are daredevils fly.

Ironically, the prototype spam cans play by EXACTLY the same rules as homebuilts ... and I would like to say that we at Mooney (Chino) right now are having a riot playing in this area with the all-new M10 (sorry, I had to get a plug in there), but we are truly having a lot of fun at work. In fact, with my job, I don't know how I can call it "work" or a "job" ... and they pay me too!!! :o)

[rebuttons]

Thanks for your response and indulging the "newbie". My basic thought process is this: I want a 4-place aircraft that is faster than my Six. What I see in common between the RV-10 and Mooney are that both are speedy, 4-place single engine aircraft. Both would be more efficient than the Six. Both would handle my new mission of mainly carrying myself and my wife, but occasionally carrying an additional 2 people. The Six is great for carrying practically anything that we can stuff into it, but I won't need that capability for much longer. What I like about the RV is the short field capability and the efficiency of the fuel burn to speed. I like the fact that I could almost get the performance of a Mooney or Cirrus in an RV-10, but in a more efficient package at a lower cost. In what ways are you thinking the RV and Mooney are such different aircraft - other than one being certified?

Gator,
How tall are you? Or, your wife for that matter? Go climb into a Mooney, a Cessna 400, or any others of interest. If your not sure of your building skills, then try your hand at building a wooden wing and see how it turns out. There are those that the art of building comes more natural than to others. Good luck with your research and hope you decide and do build a showman ship quality aircraft one day,er or should I say some years into the future.

Tejasflyer

[Frank Giger]

What I like about this particular forum is that nobody is cutting down the other airplanes. It is a pet peeve of mine that people talk down about Experimentals and others talk down about spam cans, but in reality, they are different products (and typically with a different mission/purpose) ... and definitely with different owners in a different market. The bottom line is that we need each other; we are not making enough airplanes today, and flying has a bad reputation of being unsafe and only those that are daredevils fly.

Ironically, the prototype spam cans play by EXACTLY the same rules as homebuilts ... and I would like to say that we at Mooney (Chino) right now are having a riot playing in this area with the all-new M10 (sorry, I had to get a plug in there), but we are truly having a lot of fun at work. In fact, with my job, I don't know how I can call it "work" or a "job" ... and they pay me too!!! :o)

I've always thought the whole spam-can training wheels (tricycle) talk was just joshing hangar talk with about as much merit (says the guy building a conventional gear aircraft, of course); when it's time for serious advice it goes away pretty quickly. Aircraft are expensive enough that making a poor choice in fit of aircraft has real impact in whether or not one gets in the plane or not, and it's not easily remedied.

Plus I know very few owners of experimentals that haven't owned a factory job at some point.

[Ron Blum]

I think all of us got our tickets on a certified airplane. A conventional gear airplane by definition is going to be lower drag (the nose wheel isn't in the propeller slip stream), but few people realize how little that difference is/can be. Ironically, the difference in fixed and retractable gear is very, very little today because of better aerodynamics knowledge. The fixed gear is also less complex, lighter and much less expensive to insure. My guess is that Cessna will never build another propeller-driven retract; Cirrus airplanes are fixed gear, too.

Bottom Line: In aviation, there is nothing comparable to the first flight of an airplane whether you built it and/or designed ... experimental or certified (experimental, too :o)