Looks like the FAA Will Shut Down AirVenture Flight Sharing

[PaulDow]

On the page
http://www.eaa.org/en/airventure/plan-your-eaa-airventure-trip/rideshare

people post if they have available seats for going to the convention.

According to the information here
http://generalaviationnews.com/2015/01/06/flytenow-sues-faa-over-flight-sharing-operations/

Flytenow is suing the FAA to try to force them to acknowledge that we're in the 21st century now.
Flytenow appears to be doing the same thing as AirVenture rideshare was doing, but with multiple destinations. I haven't seen how Flytenow was supposed to make any money at this. After all, they are supposed to be a business.
According to the article, the FAA says it's OK to offer ride shares on a bulletin board, not not online.
That sounds like a clear freedom of speech issue to me.

[WLIU]

Well, this sort of "speech" is not legally protected. Political speech is. Speech to public employees is.

That said, there is a good case to be made that if posting on a physical bulletin board is OK, then posting on an internet bulletin board has to be OK also. And the regulators must be able to clearly explain what they are regulating. As noted, the technology has nothing to do with the actual activity and the logic behind that activity. The FAA is in trouble when it tries to say what type of advertizing is and is not really advertizing. Being vague is a no-no. But it is up to someone with deep pockets and good lawyers to establish that since regulators regulate until told "no". Hopefully Flytenow has both.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Floatsflyer]

Well, this sort of "speech" is not legally protected. Political speech is. Speech to public employees is.

Wes
N78PS

This may or may not be a freedom of speech issue.

Nonetheless, you are dead wrong to say "this sort of speech is not legally protected." At law, fundamental rights and freedoms as contained in any legislation, charter or code is absolute. With the exception of "hate speech", freedom of speech is unconditional and without restrictions. There is no such thing as "this sort of" anything when it comes to the protection of guaranteed fundamental rights and freedoms.

[FlyingRon]

The FAA has held in their interpretations that it's not the ride share board that is the problem, but holding out air service to the public. (I.e., it's the flying that gets you in trouble, not the speech).

There's nothing new about this. The FAA has had this policy for years back before the internet was a public phenomenon when we were talking about people using real bulletin boards to solicit rides.
It's only coming to a head because of the success of other peer-to-peer services like Uber/Lyft/AirBnB etc...

[Mike M]

That said, there is a good case to be made that if posting on a physical bulletin board is OK, then posting on an internet bulletin board has to be OK also. not sure that's true. The First Amendment regulates speech and the press. When enacted there was neither electrically amplified speech, nor transmitted media, nor gasoline/electric powered vehicles. Therefore, just as the Second Amendment restricts firearms to single shot black powder weapons, serfs are prohibited internet ridesharing in aircraft or automobiles. (YES I AM JOKING)

[WLIU]

I think that we are agreeing. But I gather that the FAA is hanging their case on the operating paradigm of offering of a service to the general public that involves flying, and on the geographical scope of that offering. The FAA reasonably believes that someone is going to be "compensated", including the pilot, as they define "compensation". Words have meaning here.

Pilots who live on the performer side of the airshow line have for years been working with FAA policy that says free gas, a free hotel room, even flight time that could count towards a certificate or rating, that while not directly involving the transfer of $$, is done in a for profit environment (airshow), and so counts as "compensation".

The FAA assertion in this new case is somewhat of a logic extension of their policy that has been applied to pilots who fly in airshows, if only doing non-aerobatic fly-bys. They started requiring that those pilots have a Commercial Pilot Certificate some years ago based on a very wide ranging definition of "compensation". That has not been challenged so their current position is just a small step further. The internet service will likely have income, if only from advertisers looking to increase their exposure to the desirable demographic of aviation enthusiasts (we have money to spend). So even though the staff of the internet venture does not own any of the ride airplanes, does not pay the pilots giving rides, does not provide fuel, maintenance, or training, the pilots giving the rides operate under the umbrella of the money making internet service. Bingo!

In the eyes of a regulator looking to protect and expand their "turf" in the 21st century, the connection of profit to an aviation activity, however fuzzy, is enough to assert authority.

We also see that that the ground based ride sharing services are wrestling with the regulators at many state and local levels. And they are facing push back from hostile taxi companies and unions. So the internet ride-share business model is far from establishing itself as viable. Give it another year or two to shake out.

I think that the speech issue is a loser. Commercial speech is not as protected as personal speech and FAA will be asserting that because the ride-share service is the beginning of a commercial entity, their speech and the speech that they host can be regulated. If I write or print a card asking for a ride and put it on an airport bulletin board, that is personal speech. The airport puts up the bulletin board as a customer convenience but they are in the airport business not the speech business. Ride share services are in the business of hosting speech, often as a platform for sponsor advertising which introduces the commercial and profit aspect. So the assertion is that their "speech" is commercial and thus may be regulated.

Should be interesting to watch. Get out the popcorn, put your feet up, and watch the show.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS