Movie "fury"

[Bill Greenwood]

We just went to see the new movie Fury with Brad Pitt. It's about 2 hours of gruesome killing, really R rated, and definitely not for kids or and probably not enjoyed by most women.
There are a couple of flying scenes, one which I wish had been carried farther. The tank guys on the ground look up and see hundreds of Allied bombers coming over and the German fighters coming up to meet them. It's computer sim, of course, but still a good image.
As for tank warfare and going against Tiger tanks and hard core German troops, it doesn't make me want to run out and sign up.
Pitt might get an acting award out of it.

[Mayhemxpc]

This isn't exactly an EAA topic, but I will offer a few thoughts. I am a retired tank officer. The tank scenes were awesome. It made me remember how much I love tanks. The bonding of the tank crews, the teamwork, all very real.

The one scene that I did not like was the, well shall we call it pillaging, of a captured town. Stephen Ambrose wrote that all across Europe in 1945 there were large groups of heavily armed young men. Of all these groups, the local populations knew that they had nothing to fear from the Americans. This theme was repeated to me again and again by Germans I have known who lived through the conquest of Germany. Without exception, they all remarked that Americans were professional, respectful, and well disciplined -- even to the defeated. This was even true to an extent for the Russians, who officially encourage rape and pillage in their propaganda. Those who lived through the Russian conquest remarked that the first line troops were never a problem; problems came from the second and third line or support troops.

Yes, the almost throw away shot of the bomber stream being intercepted was excellent.

[rwanttaja]

The one scene that I did not like was the, well shall we call it pillaging, of a captured town. Stephen Ambrose wrote that all across Europe in 1945 there were large groups of heavily armed young men. Of all these groups, the local populations knew that they had nothing to fear from the Americans. This theme was repeated to me again and again by Germans I have known who lived through the conquest of Germany. Without exception, they all remarked that Americans were professional, respectful, and well disciplined -- even to the defeated. This was even true to an extent for the Russians, who officially encourage rape and pillage in their propaganda. Those who lived through the Russian conquest remarked that the first line troops were never a problem; problems came from the second and third line or support troops.
[Spoiler Alert]

I am reminded of the late Alistair Cooke's introductions for "Piece of Cake" when it ran on PBS. He mentioned how the series was controversial in Britain, due to its less-than-complimentary depiction of RAF pilots in the early war period.

His comment was along the lines of, "All these things happened...but not in one squadron, and not at one time."

I think that's probably the case for "Fury," too. It's not the first on-air depiction of American troops pillaging... see "Band of Brothers," with an officer mailing home cartons of "liberated" valuables, and the entire unit looting a hotel of silverware.

As far as shooting prisoners, it happened... See Charles MacDonald's book, "Company Commander." He told two men, "Take care of those prisoners," thinking that they'd be taken back to the battalion lockup. They weren't. I remember my own "Laws of War" training in the '70s specifically warning against using ambiguous phrases like that.

Sex crimes? See Bill Mauldin's "The Brass Ring." Describes GI behavior that would get the men registered as sex offenders, today.

Mauldin's "Up Front" had a good anecdote illustrating what was probably a common GI attitude towards enemy civilians. He described the suffering of the Italian civilians along the lines "It's kind of like seeing a dog get hit by a car. You feel sorry for the critter, but can't help but think he shouldn't have been chasing cars in the first place."

One of his cartoons show what was a similar, cynical attitude of the GIs in Germany. It shows a comfortable, tidy bedroom, with a GI lying on the bed reading "Stars and Stripes." All around the room are signs saying, "American soldaten, please take care of our home" and "Please treat our house like your own."

Another soldier is walking towards a door in the back of the room. The GI lying on the bed is saying, "Careful...the toilet seat is booby-trapped."

Kipling put it best: "Single men in barracks don't grow into plaster saints." "Fury," I think, is exaggerated... but all those kinds of events probably happened.

Good movie, but agree with Bill it's not for kids. One woman in the audience apparently hadn't been to a war movie since "The Longest Day"... a continuous series of gasps, whimpers, etc.

Ron Wanttaja

[Mayhemxpc]

Did those things happen in isolated incidences? Yes. The very last time a soldier was hanged under UCMJ was for the crime of rape in occupied Austria. Therefore, they did happen. In the POW incident you cited, Ambrose also made it clear that that was NOT accepted behavior, normal, or even tolerated. Looting is a common problem. After lifting the siege of Vienna, Prince Eugen remarked that he feared the Sultan's army less than the Sultan's camp…referring to the difficulty in maintaining discipline among the troops when surrounded by so much temptation. The issue here in Fury was that this was not an historical event. Therefore, the scriptwriter, producer, and director deliberately included the scene to transmit a specific message. What was that intent? The way it was portrayed indicated that such behavior was common, rather than exceptional. I think that the surviving veterans of the 2d Armored Division and the 66th Armored Regiment may disagree with that.

Notice that I did not mention shooting the prisoner, although I could have. Neither did I mention the tanker who was on fire and shot himself. NEVER heard of such a thing. The presence of mind that it takes to decide to shoot yourself (rather than the typical bad decision of running around further inflaming the fire), then unholster the pistol, chamber a round, and put it carefully to one's head, all while being on fire and STANDING IN A POOL OF MUD which would have been MUCH more effective at putting the fire out, strains the limits of credulity.

Nonetheless, overall it is a great movie. Acting, cinematography, capturing the feel of being in a tank crew. All great.

[rwanttaja]

Notice that I did not mention shooting the prisoner, although I could have.....

Sorry, Chris...I was reacting to other reviews I'd read.

Ron Wanttaja