Helmets...... Helicopter pilots use them, why not Fixed Wing?

[1600vw]

Just as the title says. Why not fixed wing? Some say its of no help in case of a crash. So why does a helicopter pilot use one then?

Tony

[rwanttaja]

Just as the title says. Why not fixed wing? Some say its of no help in case of a crash. So why does a helicopter pilot use one then?

The helicopter pilots I see around here don't wear helmets, except for the ones the ones flying Army birds.

Otherwise, it might be the preference of ex-military pilots or the desire for better passive noise attenuation. Or even a company/insurance requirement in some cases.

I think they probably improve one's chances in an accident, in ANY sort of vehicle. But it's like a parachute; you could lug one around a very long time before you actually need one (and if you do, little else will substitute....). Knew a guy who had a Honda accident and got himself badly concussed. Honda *car*, that is. Yet he didn't switch to wearing a helmet afterwards.

Ron Wanttaja

[Floatsflyer]

Please Tony, don't give the feds any new make work ideas. It's bad enough that they can't rap their heads around the notion that building an airplane in your hanger is indeed an aeronautical activity.

Ssshhhh......they follow this forum.

[1600vw]

I was just asking. I see helicopter pilots wearing helmets. Just wondered why fixed wing did not. I never have seen fixed wing besides military use a helmet.

As to the Fed's and rules. We should not need someone to tell us to be safe or how to watch our butts. If you believe its safe how you do it, and are not hurting anyone, do it. Helmets should be a personal decision and not something big brother needs to make a law over.

In my little airplane I would like to even have some body armor. In a bigger airplane you have something around you. In some of these little EAB's not much to protect one from getting impaled if something really bad happened.

http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/41986/i/leatt-body-protector-adventure?colorid=9&sizeid=111&siteID=CSE_GBase_0500030267&WT.mc_ID=80003&adpos=1o1&creative=39897540053&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=COSc5oKIocECFccRMwodq3kAHg

4225

Tony

[JimRice85]

Most all ag pilots wear helmets. Many airshow acro performers wear helmets. Lots of warbird pilots wear helmets (fighters/trainers). Racer pilots typically wear helmets too.

[1600vw]

For 27 bucks I thought about ordering one of these for body protection when flying open cockpit Ultralight style aircraft.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360527881792?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&var=630069532932&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Tony

[Dana]

I always wore one flying my PPG and ultralights, where there was nothing between my head and the ground if something bad happened. I'll wear one at least for the first few flights of my new (to me) biplane, in part at least because I have no other radio headset. Afterwards, we'll see.

[1600vw]

I always wore one flying my PPG and ultralights, where there was nothing between my head and the ground if something bad happened. I'll wear one at least for the first few flights of my new (to me) biplane, in part at least because I have no other radio headset. Afterwards, we'll see.

That is why I wear mine more then any other reason. This equipment was not cheap. I sold my open air ultralight and still had this equipment. I thought about buying a headset but like this helmet.

Dana did you check out that body armor. I like this. Might keep one from getting impaled by the control stick in a crash or a from a branch or something else. I have never wore one of these so have no idea if you can move much while wearing one. But it seems to me a biker needs to be able to move more then I do setting in my airplane. I also believe these are lite weight too.

Tony

[gbrasch]

The helicopter pilots I see around here don't wear helmets, except for the ones the ones flying Army birds.
Ron Wanttaja
I flew helicopters for over 30 years in both law enforcement and medevac and always worn one for crash protection. So did everyone else that I came across in the fields. The only people I don't see wearing them are the one's that need it the most, training birds. I often think about having one in my RV for bird strikes, but have not brought myself to that point yet.

[Floatsflyer]

...did you check out that body armor. I like this. Might keep one from getting impaled by the control stick in a crash or a from a branch or something else. I have never wore one of these so have no idea if you can move much while wearing one. But it seems to me a biker needs to be able to move more then I do setting in my airplane. I also believe these are lite weight too.

Tony

You should check this out. Much better armour protection, lightweight and can definitely move well in it:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQARjjrl44OAbVrtbHlCX5Cj59n2nwgG KngZmxU1uDwLHwjk_Kt

[WLIU]

I think that Ron nailed it. Gen Av airplanes are sold as being safer than automobiles. So "normal" pilots see no need for additional personal safety equipment, and statistically, the cost benefit trade-off supports that.

Those pilots who fly in higher hazard environments wear more safety gear. Acro airplanes break and you can not use your parachute if you hit your head and go night-night during the failure or on the way out of the airplane. EMS helicopter pilots go flying in crappy weather into the stupid locations that folks get themselves hurt in. Ag pilots spend lots of time moving fast around fixed objects that their farm friends tend to not mark well, etc.

If you fly an air vehicle with an engine that has statistically low mean time between failures, you likely should wear both a helmet and a parachute unless you never get high enough to use a parachute.

Fly safe,

Wes-who wears a helmet and nomex gloves when flying inverted well below pattern altitude
N78PS

[1600vw]

I think that Ron nailed it. Gen Av airplanes are sold as being safer than automobiles. So "normal" pilots see no need for additional personal safety equipment, and statistically, the cost benefit trade-off supports that.

Those pilots who fly in higher hazard environments wear more safety gear. Acro airplanes break and you can not use your parachute if you hit your head and go night-night during the failure or on the way out of the airplane. EMS helicopter pilots go flying in crappy weather into the stupid locations that folks get themselves hurt in. Ag pilots spend lots of time moving fast around fixed objects that their farm friends tend to not mark well, etc.

If you fly an air vehicle with an engine that has statistically low mean time between failures, you likely should wear both a helmet and a parachute unless you never get high enough to use a parachute.

Fly safe,

Wes-who wears a helmet and nomex gloves when flying inverted well below pattern altitude
N78PS


But this is not about GA type of aircraft. This is about this type of aircraft. Small EAB type airplanes.

4226

[WLIU]

Well, the point is that you apply the same principles that I outlined. If you fly behind an engine that has a shorter MTBF, or fly a lot below the commonly accepted pattern altitude above forrest, swamps, or lakes, etc., you should factor that info into your calculation of the personal safety equipment you need to fly with. Those who fly E-AB's with better statistics, such as the RV family, and who have completed their test time, need less personal safety equipment.

The best practice is to take care of your equipment so it never fails, and don't crash.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[1600vw]

Well, the point is that you apply the same principles that I outlined. If you fly behind an engine that has a shorter MTBF, or fly a lot below the commonly accepted pattern altitude above forrest, swamps, or lakes, etc., you should factor that info into your calculation of the personal safety equipment you need to fly with. Those who fly E-AB's with better statistics, such as the RV family, and who have completed their test time, need less personal safety equipment.

The best practice is to take care of your equipment so it never fails, and don't crash.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

Wes I agree. Why I spare no expense when it comes to repairs.

To those who are in the know about crashes and such. Can a body suit like I posted, help in the case of a crash in a small EAB or even an ultralight. From some other posts, some of these crashes have caused impalement from such things as control sticks and such. Motor cross riders use them just for this reason. I wonder if those who have died from such crashes in these small aircraft might have had a better chance wearing something like these armor suits?

Tony

[WLIU]

The only way to achieve perfect safety in an activity like aviation is to not engage in that activity. As someone who has made 1680 skydives and spent my entire adult life flying, my risk reward calculation is very different than yours. I would not bother with the type of gear that you are talking about. Don't crash. If you have to crash, keep the airplane flying, and keep pointing it between the hard objects until all motion and crunching noise stops. Crawl out and call 911. Works for me and my bad friends who have been there.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Jim Hann]

I can't find a full reference on it right now but Sean Tucker broke his neck flying aerobatics years ago. I believe he blamed it in part on wearing a helmet because of the weight of it. In the desktop picture from back in August you can see him only wearing a headset in the Challenger.

Just something to consider.

[1600vw]

I guess the motor cross rider could do the same thing. Stay on the trail and if you do crash point it between the hard stuff. In these little airplanes a branch sticking up in the wrong spot can come right through these airplanes. Just me but I want the same protection the guy blasting through the woods uses when blasting through on two wheels.

Safety in a GA style airplane comes with the airframe. Safety in a small EAB comes from what one is wearing, not a lot between you and what is outside. Even a bird strike in something like these small EAB's will be different then say a 172. My head takes up all the inside of my windshield. If a bird comes through it I am getting hit in the head, no way around it, or in the chest.

You say put it between the hard stuff.

I had a friend who's name I will not mention here. He losses an engine on climb out. He ended up out in the grass on the end of the runway. Hit nothing but mother earth. Lived a short time after the crash, from what I was told. Could one of these suits of armor helped him. No idea. But if I am in that spot I would like a little extra protection.

I am bored and needed some aviation talk. What better subject then safety equipment. The Good, bad and ugly side of it. A tough subject to talk about though.

That airplane my friend was in was a Mini-Max.

Tony

[1600vw]

I can't find a full reference on it right now but Sean Tucker broke his neck flying aerobatics years ago. I believe he blamed it in part on wearing a helmet because of the weight of it. In the desktop picture from back in August you can see him only wearing a headset in the Challenger.

Just something to consider.

Again I am speaking of low and slow airplanes. Mini-max products, Legal Eagle, Fisher Products, Belite, airplanes of this style and construction. No I G's in any of these airframes.

[martymayes]

Tony I have an old football helmet that you can have. Would be perfect match for your plane, already has a stripe painted on it.

[Floatsflyer]

This is all about personal choices, preferences and tolerance to risk. If you believe it's necessary and you've determined your risk/reward is on the low side then wear your helmet(as you do from the pic) and buy the body armour. Case closed, no one will think the worse or better of you. Just do it!

[WLIU]

Helmets today are not what helmets were 20 years ago. I have a size large neck on size medium shoulders from wearing one of the older fiberglass, heavy helmets. My current helmet weighs nothing in comparison and I hardly notice that it is there when pulling "G".

Look up on You-Tube Sean Tucker's talk on his lat bail out. The canopy left a ding in his helmet as it departed despite his hunkering down in his seat to let it go by. A friend was run down and after bailing out found a gouge in his helmet. You can not exit the airplane or deploy your parachute if you are lights out.

As for crashing in an open field and not surviving, without a video record you really can not speculate, but too many pilots appear to lose control of the airplane during an engine failure. All of my friends and acquaintances who kept flying the airplane through touch down, and I am surprised at how many I can count, walked away. And they landed in trees, swamps, some at night. In contrast, a friend just showed me video of a Mooney engine failure during the day in good weather where the pilot never pushed the nose down, tried to turn as the airspeed decayed, and spun in, resulting in a big fireball.

In any case, each of us makes an educated decision of where to spend $$ on safety. Training does not increase the weight of the airplane or pilot. Most other safety gear does, reducing performance.

And if you expect that your airplane is likely to leave you suddenly over hostile landscape, then perhaps it is wise to invest your $$ in making the airplane more reliable.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Mayhemxpc]

You know you guys already had this discussion on another thread back in May. (I say you guys because I see that most of the responders here also responded to that thread then, and said the same things.) You convinced me then.

-- Chris

[Bob Dingley]

Just as the title says. Why not fixed wing? Some say its of no help in case of a crash. So why does a helicopter pilot use one then?

Tony
True story. One lousy day at KATL no one was arriving or departing due to the zero-zero weather. Lots of grousing from the pilots waiting to depart. Then a helo calls in asking for a special VFR. He's 20 west over Interstate 20. Tower replies immediately with a clearance into the Class B for a straight in, to remain clear of clouds and CLEARED TO LAND. That sure stirred up the waiting crews.There were hurt feelings and many questions such as "why him?" Tower simply replied "He's a helo."

Just look at the VFR weather minimums in FAR 91.155. There are many other regs that also shave the helicopter v airplane margins from common sense to nonsense. They run from minimum altitudes to fuel reserves and more. A good reason to "dress for the job" with Nomex, a good restraint system and a helmet.

Helmets are not applicable to the Sikorsky 76's that carry corporate execs on IFR flight plans.

Bob

[mrbarry]

i would wear it . even on my bicycle , sometimes

not to mention the airframe i am thinking on has no windscreen ,
in my mind
a lot of what a helmet does is keep from banging head on the canopy or whatever.

some MIL pilots do not wear helmets seem like i have 130's an c-17's operated in shirtslves

[Shroudcutter]

While there isn't a tremendous difference in the accident rates between helicopter and fixed wing aircraft per million hours, there is a big difference in the fatal accident rates.

[mrbarry]

i like these strings , makes me think, research , learn

i do not see a whole lot of emphasis in the advertisements about the rated impact resistance ,

even on my bicycle i worry about the ratings , and i seldom [but sometimes] reach 40 MPH rate of speed .
my selected airframe has Vne of 90 .. i think i am wanting at least a snell rated on account of possible second impact with crash cage

[WLIU]

People tend to fixate on individual pieces of gear and not look at the "big" picture. A helmet provides functionality in a number of ways other than a catastrophic crash situation. And in a crash, a helmet is no help unless the airframe and pilot restraint system gracefully consume crash energy so as to bring any impact of the pilot's head down to the range where a helmet can help. Or to put it another way, having an uninjured head atop a crushed chest and broken neck does not accomplish anything useful.

A helmet provides mounting for your comms and eye shading.
A helmet provides wind protection if you fly open cockpit or with the canopy slid back.
A helmet provides noise reduction for your ears and comms.
If you are so inclined, a helmet provides a place to mount other gear like lights and displays and O2.

A helmet provides protection if the airplane breaks, either due to pilot action or a mid-air. If you wear a parachute, you can not use it if you are lights-out (ask Sean Tucker).

In the event of a fire, a helmet provides some protection. But that only helps if you are wearing other fire-resistant clothing.

But in the end, if your aircraft is a minimal wooden structure and you hit something hard and immovable, a helmet and other gear worn by a pilot is unlikely to make a difference.

And aviation helmets confound a lot of people because they are not made to terrestrial transportation specs (DOT, Snell, etc). Military helmets are made to a Mil or NATO STANAG spec. Most folks do not know where to find these or understand what they mean. Skydiver derived helmets are made to field test experience (skydiver heads hitting the ground and other immovable objects - happens regularly). All of them have a limit to their ability to protect the wearer. All of them offer protection against some spectrum of head hits. Or to put it another way, the helmet on your head is much better than the one you could not afford and do not have.

All of that said, the vast majority of pilots do not need a helmet. Some folks wonder about what they are missing. Those of us that do need them, wear them.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Sirota]

A neighbor started wearing a helmet a few years ago after a FAA accident investigator told him many fatalities wouldn't have been fatal if the pilot had been wearing a helmet. A few weeks ago he ground looped his Husky and the compass took a 1" chunk out of the helmet. The injury wouldn't have killed him but it sure would have hurt like hell. He walked away without a scratch.

I've been thinking about a bike helmet because they're light and airy. Nothing will help if you spin in, but there's a lot of sharp and pointy things in our airplanes.

[Dave Stadt]

Wes I agree. Why I spare no expense when it comes to repairs.

To those who are in the know about crashes and such. Can a body suit like I posted, help in the case of a crash in a small EAB or even an ultralight. From some other posts, some of these crashes have caused impalement from such things as control sticks and such. Motor cross riders use them just for this reason. I wonder if those who have died from such crashes in these small aircraft might have had a better chance wearing something like these armor suits?

Tony

If you are going that far might as well add a HANS device

[SBaircraft]

I'm alive because of a helmet. Also, I recently watched a glider roll into the wing of a parked aircraft. It shattered the canopy and came very close to causing a serious head injury. Our hobby is about as dangerous as riding a motorcycle.

[Greg Wilson]

When flying a Team MiniMax I often wore a helmet, I did not wear it when going into the county airport but rather my headset. Going into the airport is high risk but the headset/radio was a better safety aid then the helmet, I would certainly loose if hit by a G.A. aircraft or hit the ground out of control from wake turbulence. I was told that the metallic red showed up very well basically a "passive" anti-collision light. The helmet and face shield, that was quickly added to it, did stop many large grasshoppers that would have really hurt if they had hit my face. At high AOA the wind would come around the windshield but not at cruise. I think the gear that is used is your choice just make sure it will not interfere with the control of the aircraft, by obstruction or weight. 4247