Mode C Vail

[Plourr]

I will be flying a Luscombe without a electrical system. I understand I don't need a transponder to fly into a mode C vail but do I have to be talking with someone.Thanks in advance

[rosiejerryrosie]

Mode C vail is different from Class C airspace. The FAR/AIM states:
Specific details concerning requirement to carry and operate Mode C transponders, as well as exceptions and ATC authorized deviations are found in 14CFR Section 91.215 and 14 CFR 99.12. In general the CFRs require aircraft to be equiped with Mode C transponders when operating:
(a) At or above 10,000 feet MSL over the contiguous states or the District of Comumbia excluding that airspace below 2500 feet AGL
(b) Within 30 miles of a Class B airspace primary airport below 10,000 feet MSL. (Ed. Note: 'The mode C vail') Balloons, gliders, and aircraft not equipped with an engine driven electrical system are excepted from the above requirements when operating below the floor of Class A airspace and/or outside of a Class B airspace and below the ceiling of the class B airspace or 10,000 feet MSL whichever is lower)

If your aircraft does not have an engine driven electrical system, you may fly within the Mode C vail as long as you stay out of Class B airspace (which you would want to do anyway ;o). There are other requirements and exceptions which you might want to check out in a recent copy of the FAR/AIM. Happy (but safe) flying.

[Plourr]

Thanks Rosie....

[Plourr]

oops, sorry Jerry....Thanks Jerry

[rosiejerryrosie]

oops, sorry Jerry....Thanks Jerry

Happens all the time!! :D

[teknosmurf]

Just a word of caution. While you can fly in the mode C vail without electrical, you need to coordinate with the FAA to make sure you have your waiver. It's nothing special...if you don't have panel room or a means to power the transponder, you should be able to get an exemption, but don't think about flying in the veil without the paper.

[rwanttaja]

Just a word of caution. While you can fly in the mode C vail without electrical, you need to coordinate with the FAA to make sure you have your waiver. It's nothing special...if you don't have panel room or a means to power the transponder, you should be able to get an exemption, but don't think about flying in the veil without the paper.
If the airplane was certified without an engine-driven electrical system and none has since been added, no waiver is necessary to fly within the veil (See Jerry's quote of the applicable FAR). You DO need a waiver if you intend to fly within the Class B airspace itself, or your airplane normally is required to have a transponder.

Ron Wanttaja

[JimRice85]

There is a difference between Mode C veil and Class B airspace. The veil is a 30mile radius cylinder from the surface to the specified ceiling. The Class B airspace is the positive control "inverted wedding cake" area. There are areas within the veil which are outside the Class B. You may operate in those areas without a transponder (in an aircraft built/certified without elec system) and without two-way communication or prior permission.

I live and fly within the Memphis Mode C veil from Wolf River (54M) airport. I own a Cub without any electrical or avionics, but my Swift has to have a Mode C transponder.

[FlyingRon]

...and in some cases there are pieces of the class B that escape the mode C veil (but you still need a transponder inside them anyway).

[Plourr]

Thanks folks for all your input.