SPORT AVIATION Mistake

[Bill Greenwood]

In the July 2014 there is an article on the designer of RANS aircraft. The problem is the photos on p.59 which show him leaning over a prop and p. 63 where as a young man he is sitting on the prop/spinner.

Props are danger zones, and not something to stick your hands and head into their arc.
And our EAA magazine, SPORT AVIATION, should know better than this.

When I see photos like that, it seems to me just like someone who is a hunter posing with a gun pointed at their head. It is a bad safety example to set, even worse because you can see where a gun is pointed, but a spinning prop becomes invisible.
I am sure this man is an excellent and experienced pilot, but everyone seeing the photos may not be, and may be careless around props.

I think we should regard props like a man standing there with a sharp sword and who may start swinging it at any time.

[1600vw]

I believe in both pics the engine is off, no one in the cockpit. I would think the mags are off and the fuel not only shut off but in the Max lean position.

The other day I did some work on my airplane. Changed the oil and filter, removed and cleaned the air filter. All within the arc of the prop. I was not removing the prop to do this. I also have stood in front of, over and around my prop when the airplane is in the hangar. I do not believe this is a dangerous practice.

Now if on page 59 he was trying to hand prop. that would be a concern but I do not believe he is doing this.

Mountain from a mole hill....

Tony
P.S. Bill I like reading your stuff but believe you might be a little off here. But please keep up the good articles. I get bored easy..lol Thanks for all you contribute..

[rwanttaja]

I believe in both pics the engine is off, no one in the cockpit. I would think the mags are off and the fuel not only shut off but in the Max lean position.

The other day I did some work on my airplane. Changed the oil and filter, removed and cleaned the air filter. All within the arc of the prop. I was not removing the prop to do this. I also have stood in front of, over and around my prop when the airplane is in the hangar. I do not believe this is a dangerous practice.

Now if on page 59 he was trying to hand prop. that would be a concern but I do not believe he is doing this.
Gotta agree with Bill, here.

One should stay out of the prop arc unless there's a good reason to be within it. There's little risk, normally, but there's still SOME risk. Remember, our magneto switches work by grounding the mag; if the switch fails, the magneto is hot.

Just yesterday, a friend told me a story of when he was storing his Piper Pacer with a Thorp T-18 under it. The T-18's prop was sticking too close to the bottom of the Pacer's wing, so he started moving the T-18's prop for a bit more clearance. WHANG! The prop had apparently been right on the edge of the compression stroke because it kicked around...and sliced through the fabric of the Pacer's wing.

It didn't actually start, but had his head been in the arc, he might have picked up a pretty back knock.

I've had folks want to take pictures of me/themselves holding the prop of my airplane, and I always refuse and tell them why. ISTR an FAA safety poster, at one time, warning against the practice as well.

Stay clear of the arc, folks.

Ron Wanttaja

[Bill Greenwood]

Tony, I don't know if you ever handle guns or hunt, but if so would you consider it ok, just fine if someone pointed a gun at you and said "no problem, it's not loaded"? If you were out hunting with a group would you mind it someone was waving a gun around so that it was pointed at other people, but again "no problem it's not loaded"? Is it okay it the neighbor kids have a gun and point it at your family, and by the way, "its not loaded"?
How about if a cop stops you for a traffic ticket and points his gun at you, would you feel good, after all he is not firing, yet.

We form good and bad habits. If we treat props with contemp and not respect, then one day when they are turning we may walk or reach into the arc. It happened to a very experiences a & p at BJC, Jeffco, airport years ago who got out of the cabin of a running MU 2 he was working on and ducked under the wing and right into the prop arc.
Same to an experienced CFI at OFK, Norfolk, Neb years ago with a C150. Our first fatality with Young Eagles program was someone who walked up to a plane and was hit by a prop.
We set examples for others who may be new pilots or just on lookers. Showing the wrong way to do it, especially in our feature magazine is a bad practice. You can be just as cool a designer or pilot while standing next to the cockpit or wing, not the prop.

And yes, I am pretty old fashonioned and I want to emphasize safety on the easy things like staying out of the prop arc, before a molehill becomes a mountain.

Obviously, you might have to cross the prop arc to change an air filter, but I would say to myself , this is out of the ordinary, don't do this normally. Idon't see any reason to lean on a prop to drain the oil. Even if moving the prop like for a compression test, I would keep most of my body clear of the arc.

As for as you not believing that this is dangerous, you can believe anything you want. There are some folks who like to handle poisonous snakes.

I hand prop my J3 Cub, but I am not careless about the prop, don't lean on it for photos and I tie the tail and chock it when starting.

[1600vw]

Tony, I don't know if you ever handle guns or hunt, but if so would you consider it ok, just fine if someone pointed a gun at you and said "no problem, it's not loaded"? If you were out hunting with a group would you mind it someone was waving a gun around so that it was pointed at other people, but again "no problem it's not loaded"? Is it okay it the neighbor kids have a gun and point it at your family, and by the way, "its not loaded"?
How about if a cop stops you for a traffic ticket and points his gun at you, would you feel good, after all he is not firing, yet.

We form good and bad habits. If we treat props with contemp and not respect, then one day when they are turning we may walk or reach into the arc. It happened to a very experiences a & p at BJC, Jeffco, airport years ago who got out of the cabin of a running MU 2 he was working on and ducked under the wing and right into the prop arc.
Same to an experienced CFI at OFK, Norfolk, Neb years ago with a C150. Our first fatality with Young Eagles program was someone who walked up to a plane and was hit by a prop.
We set examples for others who may be new pilots or just on lookers. Showing the wrong way to do it, especially in our feature magazine is a bad practice. You can be just as cool a designer or pilot while standing next to the cockpit or wing, not the prop.

And yes, I am pretty old fashonioned and I want to emphasize safety on the easy things like staying out of the prop arc, before a molehill becomes a mountain.

Obviously, you might have to cross the prop arc to change an air filter, but I would say to myself , this is out of the ordinary, don't do this normally. Idon't see any reason to lean on a prop to drain the oil. Even if moving the prop like for a compression test, I would keep most of my body clear of the arc.

As for as you not believing that this is dangerous, you can believe anything you want. There are some folks who like to handle poisonous snakes.

I hand prop my J3 Cub, but I am not careless about the prop, don't lean on it for photos and I tie the tail and chock it when starting.

If I just had said gun in my hands, took all ammo from it and broke it down if it was a shot gun you bet. Point that gun at me all you want. Just like when I kill my engine. I NEVER shut the engine off but make it stop running by shutting off the fuel flow. I also pull the lean knob. Doing all this I can light my mag and the engine will never start. The fuel is off and the carb set to max lean.

I thought everyone had these practices. If you don't you are a danger to those who may come into contact with your airplane. NEVER shut down an engine using the mag...Never..Ever....Make the engine quit and it will not run. Turn that prop all you want it will not start.

This works on my VW, I would think this would work on any engine.

How I fly.

Tony

[1600vw]

I come around my hangar and my flying buddy put his car right in front of my taxi way. I have no brakes on my airplane. As I come up I hit the off switch and nothing. She just keeps on running. I start yelling I can't stop.

My buddy runs over and tries to grab my wing. I am already on the choke and as he grabs the wing the engine dies. I come within inches of a prop strike on the hood of his car.

I learned a very good lesson that day and never ever kill my engine using the mag. It gets starved for fuel by shutting off flow and the mixture goes lean. Then the mag goes cold. I could be flying with a hot mag all the time and never know it. I do not use the kill switch but for a safety shut off after the engine has stopped running. How I know my switch works, I check it, the wiring and switch once a year.

Tony

[dusterpilot]

I shuddered when I saw those pics and was shocked they made it through the edit and review process. I'm amazed it took this long for someone to comment on them. Definitely NOT what should be shown in a magazine that promotes aviation safety. Bad things rarely happen with props, but when they do, they can be deadly.

[Bill Greenwood]

Tony, you write, "Never shut down the engine using the mag". That sounds good,but a J3 Cub or Champ or similar which does not have any mixture control to shut down the engine, and killing it by turning off the fuel and waiting for it too die leaves the carb empty which is not considered good for the carb. So the mags are the standard shut off.

But you are only getting the minor point of what I am trying to say. Obviously an engine could fire if mags are hot etc, when the prop is touched or turned.
But more importantly and more dangerously if someone gets careless around prop arcs they can be careless when the engine is running and be hit.

One of the men here used to be a deck hand on a carrier in the navy and they were taught never to go in a prop arc, running or not, same as not getting in front of a jet engine intake.

[MEdwards]

Bill, is it OK if I clean the bugs off the nose of my airplane? Or do I have to wait until the prop is removed to do that?

[1600vw]

Please explain how leaving the carb empty is hard on it? On my new to me airplane it's been setting now going on 6 months. We never drained the carb and I am worried about this. Many times I have let fuel set in a carb and that ruins the carb or justifies taking it apart and cleaning.

But removing the fuel. That always resulted in an engine that would start even after setting a year or more.

Tony

[Bob Meder]

This is what I tell my students, from beginner through multi-engine instructor: it is not a propellor - it is an xx HP Cuisenart (xx depending on the engine, of course). Do not reach through the prop arc, regardless of how the engine was shut down, unless you have a really good reason (and even then, try to think of another way to do it). Never curl your fingers over the prop. Always be in a position to get away from it if something happens.

I can go on, but you get the idea. My "other" career is in an industry that has equipment that can kill you without even missing a beat. I've learned from what we teach about safety is that the second you become complacent in anyway, you're a statistic that hasn't been written down yet.

[Bob Dingley]

Thankfully they came through the picture posing without a scratch.


I recall a friend. We were military pilots serving together and we both were members of the flying club. The club CE 177RG was a favorite of Dave's and his family. One day Dave and a few friends were in the hangar looking at the 177 when someone, don't know who, lightly touched the prop. Only one cylinder fired but Dave was in the prop arc. He was hit on the head and all reports were that he wouldn't make it. He had been promoted to Major three months before.


Fast forward a year and half. My wife and I were at the Mall and someone tapped me on the back. It was Dave and his wife. He knew me but couldnt remember my name. He recalled that I flew the jump ship for the sport parachute club but he couldn't remember the name of that thing that he wore on his back when he jumped.


He was retired of course. I ran into Dave at reunions He was getting stronger every year and he was making a comeback. His recovery was looking much like Max Conrad's, the pilot that set all the records fying for Piper. Max had a prop hit him in the head way back before WW2 and he later logged 50.000 hours.


I have been following a thread on the Homebuilders Forum by JIMDC8. He is building his Twin Jag. Instead of feathering props, he is using a brake on each prop. Just wondering.


Bob

[1600vw]

Thankfully they came through the picture posing without a scratch.


I recall a friend. We were military pilots serving together and we both were members of the flying club. The club CE 177RG was a favorite of Dave's and his family. One day Dave and a few friends were in the hangar looking at the 177 when someone, don't know who, lightly touched the prop. Only one cylinder fired but Dave was in the prop arc. He was hit on the head and all reports were that he wouldn't make it. He had been promoted to Major three months before.


Fast forward a year and half. My wife and I were at the Mall and someone tapped me on the back. It was Dave and his wife. He knew me but couldnt remember my name. He recalled that I flew the jump ship for the sport parachute club but he couldn't remember the name of that thing that he wore on his back when he jumped.


He was retired of course. I ran into Dave at reunions He was getting stronger every year and he was making a comeback. His recovery was looking much like Max Conrad's, the pilot that set all the records fying for Piper. Max had a prop hit him in the head way back before WW2 and he later logged 50.000 hours.


I have been following a thread on the Homebuilders Forum by JIMDC8. He is building his Twin Jag. Instead of feathering props, he is using a brake on each prop. Just wondering.


Bob


Why I say kill your engine by starving it for fuel. This would have never happened had the pilot done this. This story makes a good point for this. Would you leave a bullet in the camber. you are doing this when you leave a fuel air mixture in the cylinder ready to fire. It's a loaded gun.

Tony

[Floatsflyer]

Bill, is it OK if I clean the bugs off the nose of my airplane? Or do I have to wait until the prop is removed to do that?

It's a no brainier: stay out of the prop arc and don't lean on the prop unless necessary like cleaning the bugs off the nose but much more commonly like....when doing the walk-around to remove intake covers, checking the prop edges for nicks(and filing as necessary) and checking full operation of an oleo strut.

Nothing is ever absolute so we must always be vigilant and use our common sense.

[jam0552@msn.com]

As long as we are telling propeller stories - I have one that should cause every mechanic to treat them as Bill suggests in first post. I was installing overhauled mags on a C150. I had the propeller in the middle of a compression stroke and bent down underneath the descending blade to reach a nut om the mag. I accidentally bumped the propeller and it finished its stroke. The compression pushed it down suddenly and it's razor sharp leading edge struck me on my forehead just below my hairline. I bled profusely for about 15 min. Luckily it was able to hold the cut together with a butterfly bandage, no stitches required. I now have a 4" scar on my forehead to remind me of the inherent dangers of a propeller. Stay clear of it, no exceptions...
-Joel Marketello

[1600vw]

It's a no brainier: stay out of the prop arc and don't lean on the prop unless necessary like cleaning the bugs off the nose but much more commonly like....when doing the walk-around to remove intake covers, checking the prop edges for nicks(and filing as necessary) and checking full operation of an oleo strut.

Nothing is ever absolute so we must always be vigilant and use our common sense.

I agree. But we remove the bullets from not only the gun but the chamber for a reason. Why in the world would you leave a cylinder ready to fire. All these examples you speak of was just that. A person leaving a bullet in the chamber and then letting others handle said gun. You are asking for trouble as we all know and this is why if you are not using this gun you disarm it chamber and all.

One should treat an engine like a gun. Never leave it laying around with a bullet in the chamber ready to fire expecting the ignition switch as the only means of a safety. That ignition switch is no safety never rely on it.

My engine will never bite you when setting in my hangar. I have disarmed it. You can play with it all you want, it will not go off. NEVER........

Tony

[Floatsflyer]

Tony, Tony, Tony, I appreciate your ongoing, knock us over the head metaphor but I and thousands of other pilots will continue to do proper and complete walk-a-rounds involving close proximity to the prop because it is the necessary, vital and responsible thing to do and should always be if you take yourself seriously as a pilot.

As the cop used to say on "Hill Street Blues", "Let's be careful out there."

[1600vw]

Tony, Tony, Tony, I appreciate your ongoing, knock us over the head metaphor but I and thousands of other pilots will continue to do proper and complete walk-a-rounds involving close proximity to the prop because it is the necessary, vital and responsible thing to do and should always be if you take yourself seriously as a pilot.

As the cop used to say on "Hill Street Blues", "Let's be careful out there."

Just like a gun I respect it even when its empty. Same with a prop. But do you leave a loaded gun laying around? Why would you leave a loaded engine laying around? All the stories are of just that. A loaded engine was left sitting or a loaded gun was left sitting, it will kill you just as a gun.

Yep you are right I am all wet on this and should stop telling others how to leave an engine setting. I just hope those I tell to never leave a loaded gun laying around do not have the same attitude as the folks on this board.

A loaded gun laying around the house is ok as long as you do not handle it. Sounds like a stupid statement to me too.

Sure you should not get into the arc of the prop. But just because you are not to do this, does not give you the go ahead to leave said engine loaded. Unload it then respect it. But do not leave it loaded and say stay away. We all know thousands have been killed using this attitude with guns.

Tony

[1600vw]

Just like a gun I respect it even when its empty. Same with a prop. But do you leave a loaded gun laying around? Why would you leave a loaded engine laying around? All the stories are of just that. A loaded engine was left sitting or a loaded gun was left sitting, it will kill you just as a gun.

Yep you are right I am all wet on this and should stop telling others how to leave an engine setting. I just hope those I tell to never leave a loaded gun laying around do not have the same attitude as the folks on this board.

A loaded gun laying around the house is ok as long as you do not handle it. Sounds like a stupid statement to me too.

Sure you should not get into the arc of the prop. But just because you are not to do this, does not give you the go ahead to leave said engine loaded. Unload it then respect it. But do not leave it loaded and say stay away. We all know thousands have been killed using this attitude with guns.

Tony

My point as to this post. People handle unloaded guns and put pics of it in magazines all the time. No one says a word about safety. But lean on a prop, put a pic in a magazine and now someone stepped over the line. If that engine was shut down properly there would not be an issue with handling the prop or leaning on it.

I take it everyone on this board would freak when they see me after my flight turning my prop by hand when I am cleaning all the bug juice off it. But my engine just died from lack of fuel. There is no way that engine is starting not without going through atleast 3 complete revolutions with the choke out and the mixture control moved to the rich setting and the mag switch turned on.

Anything else and you can turn that prop all day and it will not start. I know I tried.

Tony

P.S. Doing things this way I will never get caught with my fuel off. The engine will never start until I turn the fuel on.

[lnuss]

If I just had said gun in my hands, took all ammo from it and broke it down if it was a shot gun you bet. Point that gun at me all you want.

Don't point that thing at me! And you'd not be welcome on my range with that attitude. The NRA's three safety rules are:



ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.


I bring this up because it's also a good attitude with that meat cleaver on an aircraft. Any one of them can keep you safe IF there are NO mistakes made by imperfect humans, but we all make mistakes at one time or another, no matter how hard we try, since we are not perfect. But if you follow #1, a mistake with #2 or #3 can't hurt you. You actually have three practices that almost completely eliminate the chance of a serious mistake. But they ALL take practice, especially the first one. For some things it might not matter, but with the potential consequences of a mistake in this area the belt and suspenders approach can be a life saver.

The same is true of avoiding the prop arc. Sure, there are certain situations where you might not be able to avoid that prop arc, but they should be rare, and faithfully practicing that avoidance should (hopefully) come to make you uncomfortable getting into that arc. This is NOT saying that the other practices shouldn't be followed, just that staying out of that arc is akin to rule #1 above.

[1600vw]

Don't point that thing at me! And you'd not be welcome on my range with that attitude. The NRA's three safety rules are:



ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction.
ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot.
ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use.


I bring this up because it's also a good attitude with that meat cleaver on an aircraft. Any one of them can keep you safe IF there are NO mistakes made by imperfect humans, but we all make mistakes at one time or another, no matter how hard we try, since we are not perfect. But if you follow #1, a mistake with #2 or #3 can't hurt you. You actually have three practices that almost completely eliminate the chance of a serious mistake. But they ALL take practice, especially the first one. For some things it might not matter, but with the potential consequences of a mistake in this area the belt and suspenders approach can be a life saver.

The same is true of avoiding the prop arc. Sure, there are certain situations where you might not be able to avoid that prop arc, but they should be rare, and faithfully practicing that avoidance should (hopefully) come to make you uncomfortable getting into that arc. This is NOT saying that the other practices shouldn't be followed, just that staying out of that arc is akin to rule #1 above.

So you never look down the barrel of a gun when you are cleaning it? Its broken down. You do not get it.

Do not use a switch to kill the engine and no way to make a mistake. Why just why would you shut off your airplane engine with a switch? No good practice at all. Make the engine die and it will not bit you or anyone else who might happen to walk up and lean on said prop. I go into my hangar all the time and find the prop moved. Now do not say people should not be moving my prop. Its being done by an A&P who keeps moving things around. Then leaves my wooden prop in the 12-6 position but this is another story.

Tony

[cub builder]

Tony, you have some misconceptions about engines not firing after starving them for fuel. There are residual vapors left in the carb that accumulate in the intake.

Shut down a carburated Lycoming or Continental some time with the mixture control, let it sit for about 10 or 15 minutes, then pull the prop through with a hot mag. It will usually fire. Yep. You can do the same after running the float bowl empty. Residual vapor accumulating in the intake is enough to make it fire. Never trust an engine to not fire.

As an A&P, I spend a lot of time working within the prop arc. That's why the spark plugs are one of the first things to come off the engine at inspection and one of the last things to go back in. Always respect the prop as potentially hot, but there are safe ways to work within the prop arc if necessary.

You read about the A&Ps that put the plugs back in. Those are the guys that get whacked by a prop on a "cold" engine with mags and fuel off.

-Cub Builder

[Bob Dingley]

Why I say kill your engine by starving it for fuel. This would have never happened had the pilot done this. This story makes a good point for this. Would you leave a bullet in the camber. you are doing this when you leave a fuel air mixture in the cylinder ready to fire. It's a loaded gun.

Tony
I get it Tony. It could have happened like this: Someone may have flooded the Cessna engine and flattened the battery. Re-hangared it with fuel in the jugs. No way to do a checklist shutdown. Ever fly with a club? Some one comes along and moves the prop. This is where we find out if it also has a bad P-lead.
Did I mentioned that I was military pilot at one time? Some days, I flew both a T-41 and a club C-172. Same animal. Every military recip, including the T-41 has an item in the runup C/L (after"mag check" and "idle check") called "grounding check". The C-172 does not, This is where you find the bad P-lead. I like to do grounding checks in everything I fly whether it has a star painted on the side or an N number.
For a time I flew a military type that had an O-540 Lyc and no mixture control. Shutdown C/L called for "Throttle 1500 RPM, FUEL VALVE OFF. Mags off after engine stops". No danger of prop strikes. It was a helo with a clutch.


Bob

[lnuss]

So you never look down the barrel of a gun when you are cleaning it? Its broken down. You do not get it.

Note that cleaning the gun isn't normally done on a live range, though there are exceptions, but those rules are for handling a gun anytime, range or not. And that "I can point it anywhere because it's unloaded" attitude isn't allowed on the ranges where I work. You're trying to justify avoiding those rules, or so it appears, but I don't know why.

I normally don't look down the barrel even when cleaning, unless it needs inspecting, then it's only when the barrel is removed from the action (or lock, in muzzleloaders) and magazine. Even when it's broken down, I do my best to avoid the barrel pointing at anyone, as much for developing the habit, as for anything. You don't seem to get the concept of belt and suspenders or, in this case, developing safe habits, as well as setting an example for others around you. And you certainly don't look down the barrel of a muzzleloader after it's been fired, even though you're sure it's empty -- there's still danger.


Do not use a switch to kill the engine and no way to make a mistake. Why just why would you shut off your airplane engine with a switch? No good practice at all. Make the engine die and it will not bit you or anyone else who might happen to walk up and lean on said prop. I go into my hangar all the time and find the prop moved. Now do not say people should not be moving my prop. Its being done by an A&P who keeps moving things around. Then leaves my wooden prop in the 12-6 position but this is another story.

Tony

I didn't mention anything about a switch, nor did I say I would shut off my airplane with a switch (though I might in a Cub, or the Chief I learned in -- no choice). Don't go reading things into my words that I didn't put there. I normally pull the mixture. But it's still possible for the engine to fire after shutdown, even if it's not able to keep running, and it only takes one or two cylinders to fire to potentially cause injury.

It's the same principle as closing a drawer so people won't trip over it, and not leaving a drinking glass near the edge of the kitchen counter, since when I walk by my elbow might bump it -- I don't need broken glass on the floor, nor a spilled drink. It's about prevention, Tony, not macho pride in always being careful. Perhaps you are sufficiently perfect that you never make a mistake, but I'm not, nor are most people. So I try to compensate by eliminating the potential for problems when I can recognize it, then still being as careful as I know how to be -- belt and suspenders.

I still avoid that prop arc to the extent possible, even with a cold engine that has mags off, that was tested for grounding just before shutdown, and has mixture lean and fuel shut off. There is still a residual danger, though it's unlikely to be a problem under those conditions, and good habits take time to develop, but not much time to break.

Bye...

[rwanttaja]

The whole point, I think, is that a prop...like a gun...should never be treated casually. Always handle both as if the worst-case event could happen. On cold days, I turn the prop over (backwards) by hand to loosen it up a bit; I have to move the prop to remove the cowling from my airplane. In all cases, I keep as much of my body out of the danger zone as possible.

Bill's objection, and my agrement with it, is that taking a photo with the airplane *is* a casual event. No reason to touch the prop or get in the arc.

Years ago, I came out to fly, and a buddy's T-18 was parked on the taxiway outside his open hangar ready to go. I figured he was out visiting the sani-can, and took off for a short flight. When I came back, it was still there. I called my buddy's home number, and he WAS there...and hadn't been to the airport that day.

Someone had tried to steal his airplane. Fortunately, his master switch was in an odd position, and they probably were stopped when they didn't find it. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they'd got the engine primed and ready to start. The mags were toggle switches, didn't need a key to start. If they'd wanted to cover their tracks, they could have tucked the airplane back in the hangar with no one the wiser...and the engine ready to go. As it was, the T-18 shared the hangar with an Ercoupe, and it took some trickery to fit them back together (they'd actually dropped the Ercoupe onto the T-18's wing in getting the homebuilt out, its tiedown ring gouging the skin).

In any case, this could have been a case of an airplane ready to go, with no (legitimate) person the wiser.

(The full story...which is even weirder...can be found at http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/witch.htm)

Extremely low probability, yes. But not messing with the prop unless necessary is a good policy....

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

The whole point, I think, is that a prop...like a gun...should never be treated casually. Always handle both as if the worst-case event could happen. On cold days, I turn the prop over (backwards) by hand to loosen it up a bit; I have to move the prop to remove the cowling from my airplane. In all cases, I keep as much of my body out of the danger zone as possible.

Bill's objection, and my agrement with it, is that taking a photo with the airplane *is* a casual event. No reason to touch the prop or get in the arc.

Years ago, I came out to fly, and a buddy's T-18 was parked on the taxiway outside his open hangar ready to go. I figured he was out visiting the sani-can, and took off for a short flight. When I came back, it was still there. I called my buddy's home number, and he WAS there...and hadn't been to the airport that day.

Someone had tried to steal his airplane. Fortunately, his master switch was in an odd position, and they probably were stopped when they didn't find it. But it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they'd got the engine primed and ready to start. The mags were toggle switches, didn't need a key to start. If they'd wanted to cover their tracks, they could have tucked the airplane back in the hangar with no one the wiser...and the engine ready to go. As it was, the T-18 shared the hangar with an Ercoupe, and it took some trickery to fit them back together (they'd actually dropped the Ercoupe onto the T-18's wing in getting the homebuilt out, its tiedown ring gouging the skin).

In any case, this could have been a case of an airplane ready to go, with no (legitimate) person the wiser.

(The full story...which is even weirder...can be found at http://www.bowersflybaby.com/stories/witch.htm)

Extremely low probability, yes. But not messing with the prop unless necessary is a good policy....

Ron Wanttaja

I agree with everything you state. I say it's good policy to not leave your engine ready to run. All the stories I hear from not only engines firing from bumping the prop. But also from people who take off with the fuel off. Seems like if you kill your engine from lack of fuel, kinda hard to start said engine with the fuel off.

So the very first thing I do in order to start my engine is grabbing the fuel shut off valve and turning it on. If I find it on I know someone has tampered with my airplane. I then must move my mixture to rich. I must close the choke and light the mag. Check throttle to make sure she is at idle.

It then takes 3 complete turns of the prop before it will fire.

No way to ever leave the ground with the fuel valve closed nor anyway for the engine to fire as I check the oil or the gascollator, or any other thing I want to do on my pre-flight walk-a-round.

Seems like a safe way to fly to me.

Goodbye....

Tony