RV-12 vs. CH-650

[wallda]

I have narrowed my search for a project down to a few choices. Both will fit mission. I would like to hear from builders and fliers on the good and bad of each.

From what I can tell Vans has a major forum with very active members.... Zeinth has a forum but doesn't seem very active.

Zeinth had the big airworthiness issue a few years back but seems to have recovered nicely.

Zeinth gives me more flexibility in engine and instrumentation. Probably a bit lower in cost as well.

[gbrasch]

My website has a fairly active -12 section if your interested.

http://forums.rvairspace.com/?forum=227705

[Mike M]

haven't flown an RV12 yet. have flown a neighbor's tricycle Zenith with Corvair engine and aileron hinges, not bending skin ailerons. Nice plane. Nice. Flies enjoyably, responsive, predictable, stable, open to inspection, roomy cockpit. your mileage may vary.

[Marty Santic]

You will love the RV-12. Built mine and have over 200 hours. Read the builder logs referenced on VAF. VAF is the most active. They have a forum for each of the models. http://www.vansairforce.com

[vbob1]

From what I can tell Vans has a major forum with very active members.... Zenith has a forum but doesn't seem very active.

I think this is a pretty big deal! Active people are one of the reasons we chose the RV-12 for high school build projects. Questions can be answered in minutes, even over night and on weekends, and the experience level is excellent.

I have some time in the 12 (over 30 hours) and it is a fine machine. It flies as well as my own RV-9A, and is only slower, not less capable in most respects. No time in the Zenith--sorry. Another plus from our standpoint is that the kit is SO complete; very little else to buy. Remember you can build the 12 as an E-AB instead of E-LSA and save money, although I don't really recommend it. Apples to apples, they are pretty close to the same cost. Pick based on your needs/mission, not on the bottom line. I know there will be pluses for the Zenith; I just pointed out some of the pluses for the 12.

Bob Kelly, Founder, Eagle's Nest Projects

[wallda]

Thank you for all the replies. Does anyone know of anyone building either in central Wisconsin? I will post on both forums as well.

[cmaiman]

Hate to throw a wrench into this, but have you considered the Sling 2? It's a beautiful plane, super easy to build and flies great. I flew one last December and it was a great flyer. I just started building the 4 seat version, the Sling 4.

Here's my build log: http://craigsling4.blogspot.com/

[wallda]

Cmaiman... great. Another airplane to consider....

[bcameron]

I just went through the exact same exercise and ended up deciding the CH-650B was the right plane for me. Advantages were:
- Less expensive (everything... rudder workshop, kit, finishing kit, completeness, engine choices and even avionics. Also, I felt much less "nickel and dimed" on "options" or required extras
- No shipping (I live about an hour from the Canadian Zenair and can pick up the kit (which is mostly made in the US) for free - not even any crating charges if I pack it myself (with their help)
- More choices.. I liked that the Zenith could be very much customized - especially around the engine
- Quicker to build. If you look at the rudder alone, you can see there is a heck of a difference.
- Wider (ok it's only an inch but sitting in both, the CH-650 felt much more roomy)
- Shorter Take-off and Landing (watch youtube... the CH-650 seems like it would take off in a strong breeze, it's often off by the time it passes the numbers).
- Better visibility. The cockpit has to be seen to be believed in the CH-650. You feel like you are in a lawnchair tied to some balloons.
- More stable - A better IFR platform. This one is important to me but for the weekend warrior you might want a bit more responsiveness that you would get in the RV-12
- I can put it on amphib floats (yes a low wing looks stupid on floats but it works)
- Fuel in the wings where it belongs not the cockpit.
- In the end, the real swinger was that I liked the people better. Sebastian and Michael were much more friendly and responsive. I didn't come across as someone ready to buy immediately but I never felt like I was wasting their time. I didn't get that feeling from Dick and crew over at Vans. They were both busy but I just felt like I could be friends with the Zenith crew vs one of 9000 customers at Vans. I had 10 minutes with both and at VANS I went through 3 different people (including having Dick walk up and interrupt) where as at Zenith I had their full attention and I felt like they were enjoying "teaching me" about their product.

Of course you need to weight that against its disadvantages (compared to the RV-12):
- It's not an RV (so won't be worth as much when done and isn't quite as responsive
- Potentially less of a resale market - especially with the black eye the Zodiac's got with before the upgrades
- Easily detachable wings (not an issue for me as I intend on flying it myself much of the time so would have to find someone to help anyway)

I'm sure there are more "RVantages" for others but they weren't important to me. That said, I want the plane for commuting a couple of hundred miles on a weekly basis. It has to be able to fly IFR (when necessary... I have no intention on flying in ICE, etc but I do want to be able to file IFR and go if I have to). I'd rather take the extra money I saved and put it in some more avionics. How ever you choose, I became convinced that they are both VERY capable airplanes and I'd be proud to own/build either of them.

[wallda]

Bcameron, very helpful reply. To muddy the waters I am now considering the Rans s19

[Floatsflyer]

To muddy the waters I am now considering the Rans s19

Planes are like women, so many good choices, so little time.

[wallda]

You have that right.... In my mind I have already spent way more money than I will ever make. Hope to have things narrowed down by oshkosh 2015....

[Ghost Rider]

Hello,

I dont know anything about the RV-12, but I am currently building a Zodiac 601XL (which is the predecessor of the Zodiac 650 and almost identical).

I can tell you that the multiple means of builder support for the Zodiac are outstanding.

1. The drawings are very good.
2. There are assembly guides with color pictures which help guide you through the build process.
3. There are videos from a third party (homebuilthelp.com) which walk you through the entire build of that exact airplane.
4. Zenith is extremely responsive in returning emails to answer questions and/or help you resolve something you mess up.
5. The Zenith Forum is actually very active. If I cant find an existing thread for the item I have questions on, I will often get immediate responses to a new post.

Whatever you choose to do, enjoy the journey.

Mike
N601MM
Brighton, MI

[bcameron]

You have that right.... In my mind I have already spent way more money than I will ever make. Hope to have things narrowed down by oshkosh 2015....

It took me two years of Oshkosh too... The first year I didn't even think I was going to build one (always wanted to but never thought I'd be able to find the time). The second trip was like... I could fly here instead of spending 12 hours each way in a car.... :-) I sure learned to viscerally hate T6's though... If I never hear another one it would be too soon. I didn't look at the Rans but it does look like a sweet ride.