Ground Transportation

[mmcgrew]

Never complained about OSH until now - Have attended many years. But this year the ground transportation was horrible. Trams were no where to be seen at 6:00 am. Number of trams running were way down. Buses in north 40 were always full with people and their luggage. Not a single tram running during light rain. Privileged people racing around in golf carts and ATV's with empty seats and I did not see a single one stop to offer a ride to a walking senior citizen. They just zoomed by. EAA should be ashamed. Terrible planning and execution.

Suggestion:

1. Get rid off all private golf carts and ATV's on the compound.
2. Get rid of school buses. Too much time to load and unload and too few seats.
3. Have special handicap and senior citizens carts or trams.
4. Add more trams.This can be accomplished with a "sponsor a tram campagne"
5. Run trams late and start early. Enlist more voluntary drivers.
6. Redesign tram routes. They do not make sense as they are now.

Last: Have the individuasl who were responsible for the ground transportation walk from the ultra light area to the north 40. That would be just punshiment for their terrible planning.

Michael
N9648B

[L16 Pilot]

I don't know. I thought the transportation was pretty good. I was there on Weds and Thursday and wound up in the campground due to low ceilings at home and couldn't fly so I used the school bus to travel from the campground several times. Once or twice it was full but mostly space was no problem. I've also used the north 40 bus to Friar Tucks for a sandwich and adult beverage..no problem. They do have a handicapped bus because the bus driver called for someone who needed it. If you don't have the school buses what are you going to replace them with? I rode the trams from the vintage area to the war birds area several times and it made perfect sense to me. I'm 75 and a 'walker' but I rode the trams anyway. I thought the 'roundabout' behind the tower worked well. I will agree on a couple of points: there seems to be an awful lot of golf carts running here and there but there are also a lot of 'handicap' scooters running around too. Probably even worse are the ATV, bikes and cycles in the campground area. Those roads are really plugged and I give credit to the school bus drivers that have to contend with the traffic. I guess the trams could start earlier but the drivers are volunteers....maybe you'd like to volunteer for the 5 am shift. Personally (and I've been coming to Oshkosh since 1970 every year) I think the system works pretty well considering the number of people the event draws with flying in, camping, vendors, food, transportation, showers, portapotties, you name it. It's difficult to control the masses and make everyone happy but I'm sure they do their best and I'm sure they 'tweek' different aspects after the event is over. L16 Pilot

[dusterpilot]

Not a single tram running during light rain. ....I did not see a single <golf cart> stop to offer a ride to a walking senior citizen. They just zoomed by.
Suggestion:
2. Get rid of school buses. Too much time to load and unload and too few seats.
3. Have special handicap and senior citizens carts or trams.

- I wasn't out there looking for a ride during the rain, but I'm personally very concerned about lightning safety. (I lost a deer friend due to lightning) A tram driver and those volunteers directing aircraft traffic in the middle of the airfield make great lightning rods. I'd rather see them shut down for a while to ensure the safety of the volunteers.
- I walked a lot and twice was offered a ride in a golf cart to wherever I wanted to go and I am not old or handicapped. (Well, I guess "old" is relative. I don't think I look too old.)
2. I prefer the trams to the buses, but the buses are great at augmenting the trams and there will never be enough trams to go everywhere. The buses are a good and cost efficient supplement.
3. All the trams have a row with extra space designed to accommodate handicapped visitors and the drivers always give all the time necessary to get on and off. A special handicapped tram would be hard to police and would leave a lot of people standing and waiting while others would cheat and use it anyway. I think the system they have is great.
THANKS TO ALL THE VOLUNTEERS WHO MAKE THE TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM WORK AS WELL AS IT DOES.

[pkarmouche]

I found the transportation to be pretty good, and am very appreciative to all the great volunteers that make it work.


Where improvement can be made:


* Publish the tram routes more prominently in the visitor guide. I was there three days before I had it all figured out. I also never found an actual Camp Scholler bus map.


* Often the trams (and busses in Scholler) would end up clumped together. There would be two Northbound trams one behind another then a long wait for the next one. It would have been better if a tram driver noticed another tram just ahead, they could wait several minutes at their current stop before proceeding.


* This might not be possible, but if the Green Tram could run one more stop West to the corner of the parking lot, it would have been helpful to a large number of people who are walking down Waukau.


* (Camp Scholler) It would have been helpful if the busses in Scholler would drive just 1/3 of the way North on Stits from the West camp store for those folks down the end. Also, if the Eastbound (return to the show entrance) bus would run back to Shaick (or at least Lindbergh) it would be much better.


* Sunday things seemed to fall apart a bit. The weather was poor this year, and that likely way the cause... but remember the attendees on Sunday consider it an actual show day; many vendors and some volunteers seemed to treat it like a "clean up day".


Thanks again to the volunteers - you all really do a great job!
Paul

[Byron J. Covey]

Never complained about OSH until now - Have attended many years. But this year the ground transportation was horrible. Trams were no where to be seen at 6:00 am. Number of trams running were way down. Buses in north 40 were always full with people and their luggage. Not a single tram running during light rain. Privileged people racing around in golf carts and ATV's with empty seats and I did not see a single one stop to offer a ride to a walking senior citizen. They just zoomed by. EAA should be ashamed. Terrible planning and execution.

Suggestion:

1. Get rid off all private golf carts and ATV's on the compound.
2. Get rid of school buses. Too much time to load and unload and too few seats.
3. Have special handicap and senior citizens carts or trams.
4. Add more trams.This can be accomplished with a "sponsor a tram campagne"
5. Run trams late and start early. Enlist more voluntary drivers.
6. Redesign tram routes. They do not make sense as they are now.

Last: Have the individuasl who were responsible for the ground transportation walk from the ultra light area to the north 40. That would be just punshiment for their terrible planning.

Michael
N9648B

Amen.

[Bill]

Last: Have the individuasl (sic) who were responsible for the ground transportation walk from the ultra light area to the north 40. That would be just punshiment (sic) for their terrible planning.

Michael
N9648B

But that's just a nice stroll, particularly since its all flat and the temperatures are mild. Some punishment. I'd take that anytime. I've done the walk from South of the ultra-light area to the North 40 many times and enjoyed it even though it takes a while with all the stops to look at airplanes.

[davevath]

But that's just a nice stroll, particularly since its all flat and the temperatures are mild. Some punishment. I'd take that anytime. I've done the walk from South of the ultra-light area to the North 40 many times and enjoyed it even though it takes a while with all the stops to look at airplanes.

I did that walk many times in the early mornings, 6am or so. I enjoy a nice walk in the morning without allot of people and carts.

[BeagleOne]

I'm kind of curious as to why so many vendors "need" golf carts anyway. Why can't they move around the grounds by foot or tram like the rest of us, unless they're hauling products around? My brother had his airplane parked down by the ultralights. We were visited by some very nice people from one of the major vendors, riding around in their golf cart. They were fun to talk to, but they weren't using the cart for anything business-related. Last year we talked with a man who was using his uncle's (a vendor's) golf cart to transport his wife and kids around the grounds. Come on. I know the vendors are very important to the airshow, but there are WAAAAAY too many golf carts etc. zipping around the grounds.

[L16 Pilot]

Personally (along with the golf carts) I think there are too many 'handicap scooters' running around and I often wondered how many were actually handicapped. I'm 75 and although I rode the tram some I also did a lot of walking and more than once from the vintage area to the warbirds area but if some folks think they need mobile transportation so be it. I really can't find anything to really complain about at Oshkosh (other than the weather at times) and as I've posted before I've been coming since 1970 when we parked along the road near the main entrance and you needed a pilot's license to get on the grounds. Maybe that wasn't a bad idea but it would certainly cut down on the revenue! It takes a lot of coordination to run a show like Oshkosh and there will always be minor glitches. Can't wait until next year and hope the weather is such that I can fly in.

[BeagleOne]

I wonder about the scooters too, L16 Pilot. I'm not sure whether the scooter rental folks can ask to see proof of disability, like a handicapped parking permit, before renting a scooter to someone, or if doing so would violate the Americans With Disabilities Act. I appreciate that there are many disabilities that are not outwardly visible, but it did seem like there were a lot more scooters around this year.

I also wonder about EAA's liability if a vendor in his golf cart injures a pedestrian.

During the airshow itself, IMHO all vehicles except emergency vehicles and trams should be banned from the road that runs just behind the flightline (Wittman Road).

[Fastcapy]

I use the North 40 buses a lot since my hangar is on the north side of the field and it is a long walk all the way around the west end of 09/27.

One thing I would wish they would do with the north 40 buses is make stops, like the trams have. The buses take forever because for instance, you will have a person get off at row 502 and then another get off at 505... It would be better if they just had stops along the perimeter road, say at the fire dept,Weeks hangar, Hilton, the super8/friars gate, and the shower houses, the admissions gate and maybe one other stop on the south side of the north 40. It would sure make the buses a lot more efficient than stopping every 3 rows to let someone on or off.

[DanWilkins]

For my first visit to Oshkosh I rented a room in a house located in town. My bicycle provided fun and quick access to AirVenture. I locked it to a fence and was into the action in no time. Plus, it provided easy access to my room for an afternoon nap. Of course I hauled by stuff by bicycle. I suggest a bike rack. When I purchased 80 quarts of round engine oil, the Phillips folks hauled it by golf cart to the Hilton and my 'landlord' transported it back to my room via auto. On Saturday evening I left for the last time and just look what was strapped to the rack. Good stuff.
4106

[rbarkerjr]

...just look what was strapped to the rack. Good stuff.

Nice! Congratulations!

[mazdaP5]

Fantastic!

[Mike M]

i never considered transportation to be part of the airshow game plan. public transportation, to me, has always been like public anything. a simulation of what i needed and wanted, time-consuming, not enjoyable. but hey, it's a chance to showcase failures of public cooperation, so go for it. me, i walk. (Edited in an attempt to be less annoying)

[FlyingRon]

Actually, other than the rather odd experiment with the trams terminus changes, I didn't find transportation that onerous. I actually had little problem with the north 40 bus nor the "after tram" bus through the main show when coming back after the night airshow from Jay's party.

As for cooperation from public transit, I've never had anything bad to say about either the Oshkosh city buses or the cabs, the drivers always have gone out of the way for us. Hell, even some of the locals have gone out of their way to offer us rides in their car.

[MEdwards]

but hey, it's a chance for the great unwashed to complain about failures of public cooperation, so go for it. me, i walk.Congratulations. This unwashed chose not to walk from the airplane in Row 115 in the South Forty to the Hilton and back.

Generally the trams and buses ran well, though they seemed more crowded than last year for whatever reason. The changes in interchange terminals worked out OK. I noticed trams running both earlier and later than their published hours. That's great, but it caused uncertainty and showed lack of coordination between the trams and the after-tram buses. In three occurrences we never knew what to expect at the north end of the tram line after 8pm, so we walked. Once a tram passed us, once a bus offered to pick us up. Only had to walk as far as the bus terminal, so it worked out fine.

[champ driver]

For my first visit to Oshkosh I rented a room in a house located in town. My bicycle provided fun and quick access to AirVenture. I locked it to a fence and was into the action in no time. Plus, it provided easy access to my room for an afternoon nap. Of course I hauled by stuff by bicycle. I suggest a bike rack. When I purchased 80 quarts of round engine oil, the Phillips folks hauled it by golf cart to the Hilton and my 'landlord' transported it back to my room via auto. On Saturday evening I left for the last time and just look what was strapped to the rack. Good stuff.
4106

Congratulations!

[BeagleOne]

\ but hey, it's a chance for the great unwashed to complain about failures of public cooperation, so go for it. me, i walk.

No, it's a chance for people like me, who've been coming to Oshkosh since 1970, a chance to suggest improvements because we love the fly-in so much and want to see an already-great event get even better. And hey, *I* walk a LOT too, and I'm there every.single.day of the fly-in.

Dan, congrats on your award!

[frfly172]

I prefer to walk the show,transportation seemed to be running ok. I usually stay at Appleton ,this year did Green Bay and took the shuttle bus. Let off at the gate. Works for me.

[skyfixer8]

Apparently Michael is one of the many who never read the info given when you check in. Trams run from 8 AM to 8 PM with the school buses taking over afterward. I do agree with the CART section. I have never been offered a ride, even after asking them to stop. That is one section of volunteers that can be eliminated. I am a tram volunteer and I can assure you the only time I pulled over in the rain, was when it was driven by gusts so bad I couldn t see and the passengers wanted to stop and find cover.

[MEdwards]

Apparently Michael is one of the many who never read the info given when you check in. Trams run from 8 AM to 8 PM with the school buses taking over afterward.Right. I read it. And I saw trams running at 7:45am and at 8:30pm, hence my uncertainty as to what was going on. And no buses either time, until almost 9pm when one passed me.

Thank you for being a volunteer.

Mike E

[skyfixer8]

Sometimes, trams do get early start, depends on drivers. We assemble at 7 AM, and once assigned, some of the new guys like to check things out and talk EAA for a while. Some of us old timers just want to get in and get started.

[deftone]

The transportation wasnt too bad around the camp, although away back at Cedar where I was camped the buses were often pretty full by the time they got to my stop, often had to let them go past and catch next one. But all that tells me is that AirVenture is getting more popular!

My concern, like many others, was the number of golf carts. In particular driving around what should be pedestrian areas. For the first night show I was standing along the flightline and I cant remember how many times I had to move out of the way of a golfcart being driven over the grass amoungst the people watching the show. It was crazy, I dont know how someone didnt get hurt. I would also stop all the carts from zooming down wittman. Some of those guys were tearing along at crazy speeds considering all the pedestrians and kids. I actually seen one guy almost come to blows with a vendor that almost took out his young son with a golf cart.