What fits this mission?

[whoop_whoop_pull_up]

Mission:
30% of the time: 1 adult + 1 medium size dog + small bag
70% of the time: 2 adults + 1 small + 1 medium size dog + bags + 2 children. Hopefully something with 160KTS+ cruise. Would be nice to be able to land in grass strips. 50-70k range?

Contenders:

Cozy Mark IV
Bo S35
Comanche 260C


Any others?

[Max Torque]

Are you wanting to go just paved runway to paved runway fast, or are you wanting something that is more versatile and can do dirt/grass/unimproved strips too?

[whoop_whoop_pull_up]

Are you wanting to go just paved runway to paved runway fast, or are you wanting something that is more versatile and can do dirt/grass/unimproved strips too?

ideally more versatile but willing to just do paved.

[WLIU]

The Bonanza cost of ownership will be higher than that of the Comanche and Bonanzas are somewhat more CG sensitive. You load them more carefully. Both airplanes are 6 seat and no bags, or 4 seat plus luggage, airplanes. Don't believe the marketting brochures.

I rode to Sun-N-Fun from NH in a Comanche 260 and I can vouch for the speed and interior space. You can land the Comanche and the Bonanza on good grass runways. Pass over the rough ones.

Just about every mechanic knows how to inspect and repair a Bonanza or a Comanche.

With the canards, you will need more runway and every account of trying to fly one off grass has left me with the impression that you need a paved runway. They do not do well on grass. And you need more runway than the factory airplanes that you list. Cost of ownership? Not free but you will have to ask an owner. Can you do the maintenance? I will hazard a guess that 95% of the general aviation mechanics out there are not up to speed on composite airplanes. This is getting better, but it is surprising how many mechanics that I run into that essentially say "I like aluminum." Talk to your local mechanics.

If I were expecting to do trips with 2 adults, 2 growing juveniles, and 2 dogs, I would go looking for a Cessna 206. I can load a 206 with all of the people and stuff and dogs, and go land anywhere I want to. The 206 is very tolerant of load and CG. Been there and done that. And not that much slower.

You need to go buy time in those airplanes.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Floatsflyer]

Given your load requirements, be looking at a Cherokee 6/Lance. You can fill them up and most likely cheaper than a 206. I personally would get a 206 over a Lance, but I'm sure you won't find a flyable one in your price range.

[whoop_whoop_pull_up]

what about a comanche 250? they are pretty reasonably priced and can handle a load. any other experimentals I should consider in my price range? I'd like to build. originally I was thinking of a longez but I don't want the family to be excluded from my flying.

[Floatsflyer]

If you are intent on building, the only kit aircraft that I can think of that will meet the requirements of your mission is Comp Air. They produce a number of heavy haulers that range in price, for airframe only, from reasonable to very expensive. You might want to consider a less expensive fully built, flying used one rather than a kit to build. There might be other appropriate kits out there for you, I'm just not aware of them.

http://www.aerocompinc.com/airplanes/index.htm

[planecrazzzy]

I'd say "Tailwind"..... or a little slower... Buttercup

Both Steve Wittman designs...
.
Gotta Fly...
.

[Max Torque]

I'd say "Tailwind"..... or a little slower... Buttercup

Both Steve Wittman designs...
.
Gotta Fly...
.


The mission "70% of the time: 2 adults + 1 small + 1 medium size dog + bags + 2 children" pretty much eliminates both of those.

[Rodger]

The four place Bearhawk would be a homebuild that would do it all except the 170 kt cruise. They have a large baggage area and big door for loading and a quick build is available. If you just want to fly, the C-182/180 is my choice. I've got thousand of hours in them and never cease to be amazed at what they do. In the Arctic I've moved our family several times with nothing but the airplane because we lived where there are no roads. I would have killed myself in any other airplane. You have to work hard to kill yourself in one of them. No one would believe what we do with them and what they will do. Again, no 170 kt cruise, but they get you there before the weather changes very much, normally. For years we hauled all our groceries and virtually everything we bought, in it. I put quick release pins on the door hinges to remove the door for loading, took the stop off the window so I can open it all the way out in flight, added Flint tip tanks and Monarch mains for a 7 hour endurance. We had one once with the 18 gallon baggage aux tank. Start with new cylinders, overhaul them once and then new ones again. Never, ever, install a cylinder with unknown history that you didn't buy new and you won't have to go through the emergency forced landing. I've flown it into Russia four times, over the Bering Sea out of Nome. Packed our family of five into it all over Alaska and northwestern Canada. You have to take the seats out for hauling big loads, but you can really get a lot into it. They carry some ice if your day turns sour...if you don't know what the day holds, spray some silicon on the prop and wipe it down..ice won't stick to it. Not the most efficient fuel burn like some of the cleaner designs, but it does things they would never think of...there is just nothing that does it "all", but the 182/180 comes the closest of any. Especially if you have to land in impossible shears & crosswinds, it will keep flying when anything else would never be able to recover. Just my 2 cents...

[1600vw]

The four place Bearhawk would be a homebuild that would do it all except the 170 kt cruise. They have a large baggage area and big door for loading and a quick build is available. If you just want to fly, the C-182/180 is my choice. I've got thousand of hours in them and never cease to be amazed at what they do. In the Arctic I've moved our family several times with nothing but the airplane because we lived where there are no roads. I would have killed myself in any other airplane. You have to work hard to kill yourself in one of them. No one would believe what we do with them and what they will do. Again, no 170 kt cruise, but they get you there before the weather changes very much, normally. For years we hauled all our groceries and virtually everything we bought, in it. I put quick release pins on the door hinges to remove the door for loading, took the stop off the window so I can open it all the way out in flight, added Flint tip tanks and Monarch mains for a 7 hour endurance. We had one once with the 18 gallon baggage aux tank. Start with new cylinders, overhaul them once and then new ones again. Never, ever, install a cylinder with unknown history that you didn't buy new and you won't have to go through the emergency forced landing. I've flown it into Russia four times, over the Bering Sea out of Nome. Packed our family of five into it all over Alaska and northwestern Canada. You have to take the seats out for hauling big loads, but you can really get a lot into it. They carry some ice if your day turns sour...if you don't know what the day holds, spray some silicon on the prop and wipe it down..ice won't stick to it. Not the most efficient fuel burn like some of the cleaner designs, but it does things they would never think of...there is just nothing that does it "all", but the 182/180 comes the closest of any. Especially if you have to land in impossible shears & crosswinds, it will keep flying when anything else would never be able to recover. Just my 2 cents...

What a great 2 cents. I myself would like to see more posts from you and some pics.

Tony

[WLIU]

The -182 is a great airplane. I have many hundreds of hours hauling stuff in them. But with the original poster's load configuration, I honestly do not believe that all of his "stuff" will fit and fly legally. A 206 has more cubic space, a higher gross weight, a wider CG range, and more horses to get you up over the trees. But you have to give up 20mph in cruise over what is on the wish list.

If the OP is willing to leave some stuff behind, 182 prices are good right now. I own the 34th one ever made. Great airplane.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Bill Greenwood]

More than an airplane, you are going to need a good shrink and maybe some Colorado calming leaves if you are talking about going on long trips in a small airplane with 2 kids and 2 dogs.

Airplane wise what you need is a DC 3 or at least a nice Twin Beech D18.

[Frank Giger]

Dimeatapp all the way around!

[Jim Clark]

Mission:
70% of the time: 2 adults + 1 small + 1 medium size dog + bags + 2 children. Hopefully something with 160KTS+ cruise. Would be nice to be able to land in grass strips. 50-70k range?

Contenders:

Cozy Mark IV
Bo S35
Comanche 260C


Any others?

I have been lucky enough to own 33 different airplanes and fly 5000 hours in the last 40 years and the plane just does not exist that will carry that load, fly 160 KTS and have acquisition price under 70K. Only thing even close is a good Cherokee 6 and pull 2 of the seats. I've got 1000+ hours in various versions of the PA32 and it does more for less than any other plane I have owned. Get a fixed gear model and save enough on insurance to buy your gas. Plenty on Trade-A-Plane for 60 to 70K. Good luck on your search.

[planecrazzzy]

Steve had plans of making the Buttercup a three seater...
But this is experimental... Some can't deviate from the plans that are given...
Sorry to confuse you.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dogz...

PS Building a "Buttwind" , Buttercup with Tailwind lines...

Oh... and I'm putting a Lycoming 0-235 in it too.
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The mission "70% of the time: 2 adults + 1 small + 1 medium size dog + bags + 2 children" pretty much eliminates both of those.

[Rodger]

There is a steep learning curve on how to actually 'use' an airplane as opposed to just flying around. The only people that really learn how to use them and know what they can do, are the ones that actually 'use' them where there are no other vehicles to use, and so they get real world experience. Some airplanes have a 'depth' in their performance that can never be discovered outside of experience in being pushed to extremes. Others will end your life, career, and learning curve all in the blink of an eye. Loading up in Fairbanks for a 3 hour flight into the Yukon with all the seats out, we had to throw away a 5 lb. bag of potatoes because we physically could not squeeze them anywhere into the cabin all the way to the ceiling, and that was in a 172! Unless you are flying a commercial, mission specific operation, the 160 knots is totally unrealistic to want. There is no reason for it. 130 knots (150 MPH) is all anyone actually 'needs' to satisfy every perimeter. Unless the airplane is being used as a business shuttle, no one with experience would ever think of being dis-satisfied with 130 kts. If all you want is a speed thrill, get an aerobatic plane and leave the family home.

[Max Torque]

Steve had plans of making the Buttercup a three seater...
But this is experimental... Some can't deviate from the plans that are given...
Sorry to confuse you.
.
Gotta Fly...
Mike & "Jaz" the Flying Dogz...

PS Building a "Buttwind" , Buttercup with Tailwind lines...

Oh... and I'm putting a Lycoming 0-235 in it too.
.


Let us know how that three seater Buttercup works out for you...and how you're going to get 2 adults + 1 small + 1 medium size dog + bags + 2 children into it.

[planecrazzzy]

Yeah... I'll be sure to get right on that...

Oh.... You thought I was making mine a three seater...

Sorry... it's a two seater with a place to sleep for one and a Dog

The Back of the Baggage compartment moves to the Passenger seat area...

The Passenger seat gets put on the pilot seat...
.
Gotta Fly...
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Let us know how that three seater Buttercup works out for you...and how you're going to get 2 adults + 1 small + 1 medium size dog + bags + 2 children into it.39583959

[Frank Giger]

That's too clever!

[Ylinen]

Given the 2 Adult + 2 Children and 2 dogs plus bags. Check out the CompAir Kits. http://www.aerocompinc.com/ Probably the CompAir 7 is the right plane.

[Jim Clark]

Given the 2 Adult + 2 Children and 2 dogs plus bags. Check out the CompAir Kits. http://www.aerocompinc.com/ Probably the CompAir 7 is the right plane.
Let me know how you get this done for 70K and I'll do one.