A 7-9" Android tablet inquiry.

[Blue Chips]

If I told you the number of hours I've spent looking and calling for the perfect Android tablet for use in flying you wouldn't believe me. (Edit: so much that I've more confusion then when first started looking, inquires just created more questions and less answers)
Less then the perfect tablet is acceptable :).
I like the Samsung 8.4 Pro but WiFi and Cellular together are not available and the GPS is not stand alone but requires a WiFi/Internet connection. WiFi is just not that wide spread that I've found on the ground, is it more available at altitude but below say 1000 ft agl?
The geek in me also likes bells, whistles, buttons and lots of sensors for available apps to exploit.
The iPad Mini seems popular, though not a fan of proprietary.

What are you using?

Ken

[steve]

A 2013 Nexus 7 with 32 GB (WiFi only) and the Garmin Pilot app. Currently selling for around $150.

[Blue Chips]

Steve,
Do you have one of these?
It could be that I am not understanding but that is not a GPS stand alone either, so what happens when you get no WiFi signal? My understanding is no WiFi connection no GPS tracking.

[Matt Gonitzke]

I have Avare on my Nexus 7...you obviously need Wifi to download the charts you want in the app, but not to actually use the GPS.

[Blue Chips]

Matt,
I understand that a WiFi connection is needed to download the maps but you are saying that once that is done you no longer need any WiFi connection such as say when you have it in Airplane mode which shuts down any signals?

Position tracking is position tracking whether in the air or driving, so you get full featured turn by turn directions even if you have no WiFi connection?

[Matt Gonitzke]

I don't use "airplane mode." I turn off the Wifi and turn the GPS on. Nothing else to it. You've downloaded the maps, and the GPS locates you on them. I don't have an app for "turn by turn directions."

[MEdwards]

If your Android device has a GPS receiver inside it, it will work just fine without a WiFi or cell connection. You will not get a consistent cell connection while flying, and I doubt you'd ever get a WiFi connection beyond the FBO's ramp. So the program or app you use with your GPS in the plane has to be self-contained. I see IFly has an Android app. Google "IFly GPS" and call them and ask how it works. They'll explain it to you.

I use WingX Pro on an iPad for my aviation GPS moving map program. I think it's great, but they don't have a viable Android version. So IFly might work for you. Or Garmin Pilot as an earlier msg suggested.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

I have the Nexus 7 32GB using it for both sailing and aviation. Currently have Naviator loaded but am considering the just released Android version of https://www.iflygps.com/SYSTEMS/iFlyGPSforAndroid.aspx The Nexus is bright enough to be seen in sunlight but watch the reflections on the screen - will drive you nuts - like almost all other screens. An after market screen protector might have a solution for the glare.
Using bluetooth and high accuracy GPS will grab a bit of power consider how much you keep them both on. I have a folding case for it which I can recommend. It is quite versatile. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E4OKXFK/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 This is not a knee pad.

[Blue Chips]

When called, Apple on the iPad Mini and also Samsung (and others), both said that their GPS required WiFi or internet access for the GPS to work. Logically, what you say almost has to be the way it is else there would be huge complaints but the answers I've received from a number of tablet manufactures has sure made it confusing.

I've tried asking in different ways but always get the same answer, the device does not operate like a stand alone GPS, these were on new models not previous so can't say on those.

Think I'll call them again and talk to some one in the technical department.

Thanks for the replies

[Mike M]

I've tried asking in different ways but always get the same answer, the device does not operate like a stand alone GPS, these were on new models not previous so can't say on those.


my samsung galaxy gtp5113 with android version 4.2.2 works avare (and "gps copilot" street mapping app) beautifully as a stand-alone using the built-in gps. and the same apps work exactly the same way on my motorola droidX running android version2.3.4. whether those apps work on other android boxes i don't know.

other people tell me you get what you pay for. ok, but i also get vfr and ifr charts with moving map and basic flight planning for no subscription cost. they tell me it's too good to be true, and can't last forever. ok, but it is true and it works for now. no popup ads, no garbage, no credit card number on file, FREE. just a "donate" button on the developer's website to cure a guilty conscience.

your mileage may vary.

[MEdwards]

When called, Apple on the iPad Mini and also Samsung (and others), both said that their GPS required WiFi or internet access for the GPS to work.Can't speak for Android or Samsung, but the Apple people may not be making (or may not understand) the distinction between the GPS receiver hardware, and the display software. The GPS receiver supplies position data to whatever display software wants it, for whatever reason. Apple reps may be referring to their own in-house Apple Maps app, which does require cell or WiFi connection in order to display a GPS position. But there are hundreds of other programs (apps) for displaying GPS positions in lots of different ways available in the Apple Store for installation on iPads and iPhones. Some, like iFly GPS, WingX Pro, ForeFlight, and CoPilot for car navigation do not, repeat, do not, require cell or WiFi contact to function in your plane or car. Same for Android, but I've never used them. The Apple people may be directed to address Apple products only and not acknowledge the existence of the rest, even though they sell them. Hard to believe, but possible. Or you may be talking to somebody half a world away who's just reading a script and has no idea what it means.

If you are set on an Android unit, Cdrmuetzel's Avare sounds like a great place to start. It's free, so how could you lose? Download, install and use it for a while. Once you learn what's going on with it, then you may choose to consider something more complex, that you would have to pay for, that would give you even more capability including your "turn by turn" directions.

[JohnSBA]

Avare sounds like a great place to start.
Avare https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ds.avare has IFR features (may add geo-ref plates), but I fly it VFR. Because I prefer FAA VFR charts to the Jeppesen on my GNS430 I started using it with my Droid X phone (still works on the latest version of Avare), and I now also have it on the Samsung Galaxy S4 phones my wife and I use.

A few months after it came out I bought a 1st generation Nexus 7 with 27GB total memory. It currently has Avare with WAC charts for most of the U.S., Sectionals and TACs for Western U.S., terrain, both text and PDF A/FDs for Southwest, and assorted other FAA materials. I've also installed OSMAnd (free OpenStreetMaps app with voice & turn directions) with several maps; some photos and videos; plus Firefox and an assortment of 30 other apps. It still has 23.11GB of memory available.

With this setup, I've flown across the U.S. and Canada several times (also once to the Bahamas) using only the built-in GPS with the Nexus 7 (aka N7) mounted to the yoke of my C-172Q. It long ago became my primary navigation device, with Avare on the phones, plus an old Lowrance handheld and the 430 as backups. I generally use it with the screen at full brightness, using Avare's "always on" setting, with WiFi off and the GPS on of course (but not using Avare's "Short GPS Update Period" setting - not needed on any devices among those I've tested). I find that plugged into a high-capacity charger the N7 gradually discharges, but so far even on one 6 hour leg we flew it still had some charge at the end of the flight. If you turn Avare off and sleep the N7 it recharges quickly so a fuel, food, stretch or restroom break would let me fly with it always on far longer than I'd ever want to. Without plugging it in, you'd probably get 2-3 hours with it always on and full brightness.


you may choose to consider something more complex
In the friendly and helpful Avare Forum https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/apps4av-forum users ranging from airline and helicopter pilots to PPL VFR folks like me report using and enjoying Avare on a very broad spectrum of Android devices. Even on whatever that Amazon tablet is called, though you have to use the "Manual Installation" process described on the Avare website. The Forum linked above would be a great place to pose the original question, to find out if there's a consensus on which tablet is best and/or most affordable. Since technology is improving so quickly, my suggestion is to find the cheapest device that will do what you want. An advantage of any Nexus device is that it can always run the latest version of Android, whereas other devices don't always have updates available soon or even at all.

Disclaimer: I occasionally donate my time as one of the Avare volunteers and am friends with the original developer, though I get no benefit other than enjoying the ongoing improvements to the app and helping the aviation community.

Good luck, and Happy Flying! :)

[Dana]

I have Avare on my tablet (a 7" Lenovo A207) as well as on my phone. I have yet to use it in flight but expect to soon (I used a Garmin handheld GPS with airports and airspace hacked in in my old plane). I played with it on a commercial flight and it looked good. I'll recommend that tablet, BTW... unlike many others, the Lenovo has a minimum of preinstalled software to clutter things up, though user documentation is sparse so it's best if you're reasonably computer literate.

[rallyr]

I use both a first gen Nexus 7 and my phone, an LG G-Flex. Both work well, and NEITHER requires a WiFi or other data connection for the GPS to function. There are several things which confuse people about this: First, when using Google Maps they constantly ask you to turn on WiFi, but that's because they use WiFi mappings to feed you additional information (ie: Advertising!) as you drive around. Second, Apple iPads which are WiFi only do NOT have GPS built into them, but they can approximate your position using nearby WiFi when available. This is why external GPS receivers for Apple products are so prevalent. Someone asked about the Kindle Fire HD, and my wife has one of those. It's a nice tablet but it has NO GPS at all and so doesn't make a good navigator. Both the Nexus 7 and the G-Flex have excellent GPS receives and I've never run into lost reception problems with either. Additionally, the G-Flex has a unique curved OLED display which cuts glare and reflections considerably compared to the Nexus.

For software, like many others I've been using Avaire, which for the price (free) is tough to beat. It's been receiving continuous improvements over the past few years and has evolved into a nice, usable program. I use AOPA's Fly-Q free edition for airport information and basic weather just because I like the presentation, but Avaire's airport info is usable in a pinch too. I've played with Navzilla too, which is a little more primitive, but in some cases is easier to read than the scanned charts in Avaire. The app Aviation Tools Free is similar to Fly-Q but has a cool widget which can put real time Metars and TAFs on your phones homescreen.

For driving navigation, I like Waze. It's interactive with other's using the program and can tell you in real time the actual speed of cars on the road ahead of you, and the location of accidents and speed traps, etc. Waze, like Google Navigation, requires an internet connection to update routing, etc. If I'm out of coverage areas the NavFreeUSA app works completely independently with no internet connections required and does a reasonable job.

[Blue Chips]

This has sure been a very helpful thread for me, thanks to all that took the time to share, it's all been relevant.

Haven't ordered as yet but thinking the Samsung 8.4 pro, my vision is a bit on the damaged side and think the larger screen and it's pixels per inch being one of the highest of current production could be helpful.

Thanks again, seriously, it has answered my questions on the GPS where none was found prior.

[JoesPiper]

Having reviewed most tablet (Android and Win8) moving map software programs (not an apple user for many reasons). Anywhere Map (registered) , Voyager GlassView on a Dell Win8 tablet (Lifetime user), Naviator (registered), SkyMap, FlightPro, I-Fly, AOPA Fly-Q, and few others. The best for the money (FREE) is hands down is AVARE! AVARE needs rubber-banding which is in the works. Yes, there are some features missing that others have, but the dynamic rings are a big plus. You can move (touch) your position anywhere on the screen and it stays there with the map moving. Outstanding program all for the nice price of FREE! http://avgps.wordpress.com/avare-overview/ (http://avgps.wordpress.com/avare-overview/)
I will however register I-Fly GPS once they produce a Win8 app (for my Dell Venue Pro8 tablet)
www.JoesPiper.com (http://www.JoesPiper.com)
Currently use Samsung Galaxy Tab 2 for VFR and 32GB microdisk

[Blue Chips]

Joe,
Thanks for the info, absolutely no reason not to try Avare.


Ken

[jasstech]

Count me as another vote for Avare. Used it this weekend on my Nexus and was really impressed.

[Peter Lee]

I have the Samsung Tab2 10.1 model GT-P5110 . It has a built-in gps receiver (so no wifi connection necessary) It gets a strong gps signal in a couple of minutes.
It has the brightest screen of all according to the reviewers, but needs a non-reflective film. Cost here in France under €300.
I have bought AirNavPro with EU maps (one payment of about £35) and haven't seen anything better yet.
Completely satisfied!