FAA prepares to bust E-LSAs

[zaitcev]

Links to proposed FAA policy at issuing limitations are going around. Apparently they are going to prohibit carrying passengers in E-LSAs converted from S-LSAs, among other things. Not sure how this is going to impact RV-12 that come from the factory as E-LSA.
http://www.psfmagazine.com/2014/03/more-proposed-faa-policy/

The rocket and electric stuff is worrying as well. I'm sure XCOR and Earthstar aren't going to be pleased, but those aren't common like formerly S-LSAs.

P.S. Apparently one unexpectedly hit community is the pilots of CubCrafters's Carbon Cub, who convert in large numbers immediately after purchase in order to install tundra tires.

[Tom Charpentier]

We are well aware of this proposed revision to Order 8130.2 and have actually traveled to DC to meet with the appropriate FAA staff on this and other issues with the document, and plan to again before the end of the process. Through our discussions up to this point, we are reasonably confident these provisions will not survive to the final revision (but naturally will keep working on this to make sure that is in fact the case). In addition to our meetings in DC we will be submitting written comments by the end of the week.

[Jonathan Harger]

Here's our article covering this subject that will be posted tomorrow:

For the past two months, EAA has been working with the FAA to eliminate or mitigate potential problem language in the draft of FAA Order 8130.2H, which regulates aircraft airworthiness certification and operating limitations. EAA advocacy staff, in conjunction with the EAA Homebuilders Advisory Council, identified several issues with the proposed language that would have had negative effects for the certification and flight of experimental aircraft. Many of the objectionable changes were found in the draft order’s Appendix C, a totally new section of 8130.2 designed to streamline the process of assigning operating limitations to experimental aircraft.

Sean Elliott, EAA vice president of advocacy and safety, traveled to Washington, D.C. to bring EAA’s concerns with the proposed changes to the attention of senior officials in the FAA’s aircraft certification and flight standards divisions.

“EAA had significant issues with many parts of the draft order, and received verbal assurances from FAA officials that they were receptive to changes to the language that would maintain the intent of the previous order [8130.2G], while streamlining the document and making it more user-friendly,” Elliott said. “We want to prevent any potential problems for aircraft owners and builders before these FAA Order updates are finalized. We will continue to work with FAA officials until we have a draft that is acceptable to our community.”

EAA is also finalizing its official comments to the Draft Order, which will address all areas of concerns regarding electric, S-LSA, E-LSA, E-AB and E-Exhibition aircraft certification and operating limitations. The comments will be posted at www.eaa.org (http://www.eaa.org) as soon as they are submitted to the FAA this week.

[Ylinen]

Glad to see EAA is on the case. Why would you not want to post your response on our site and let the members review it PRIOR to submission rather than after. Seems you would want to capitalize on all the experience of members.

[rwanttaja]

Well, shoot. Don't you love it when someone at the FAA gets a wild hair and comes up with a "safety" change unsupported by statistics?

For some odd reason, I have complete copies of the NTSB accident database and the FAA aircraft registration database, both going back about 15 years. It's actually easy to find the Special Light Sport Aircraft that were converted into Experimental Light Sport Aircraft...You just look for the Certification value of "48C" in the FAA database. And then, you can cross-reference all the N-Numbers with 48C registrations with the NTSB accident database.

OK, the result? Since 2006, I show 370 SLSAs converted to ELSA. Those aircraft suffered 27 accidents through December 2013.

How many passengers were killed?

Uhhh....one.

How many serious injuries?

Uhhhh....two?

OBVIOUSLY, we need a change to FAA regulations to stop this slaughter!

Excel spreadsheet at:

http://www.wanttaja.com/elsa.xls

Ron Wanttaja

[raytoews]

Years ago a friend told me the way to get rid of govt borocrats is,,,,each time you see one get right in their face yelling and swearing and call them every name you can come up with.
Eventually they will all become so disheartened they will all quit.

Voila no more stupid regulations.

Unfortunately some of them are good people who are genuinely trying to do a good job, even friends.

An otherwise good plan.

Ray

[Ken Finney]

I just about spit coffee all over my screen when I saw the proposed prohibition on flying electric aircraft over populated areas. I guess I've missed all the accident reports of electric aircraft throwing rods, sucking valves, cracking crankshafts, and all the big fires that occurred after impact due to spilled electrolyte...

[zaitcev]

... all the big fires that occurred after impact due to spilled electrolyte...
Maybe someone saw pictures of Tesla's fires.

[Jeff Boatright]

Well, shoot. Don't you love it when someone at the FAA gets a wild hair and comes up with a "safety" change unsupported by statistics?

For some odd reason, I have complete copies of the NTSB accident database and the FAA aircraft registration database, both going back about 15 years. It's actually easy to find the Special Light Sport Aircraft that were converted into Experimental Light Sport Aircraft...You just look for the Certification value of "48C" in the FAA database. And then, you can cross-reference all the N-Numbers with 48C registrations with the NTSB accident database.

OK, the result? Since 2006, I show 370 SLSAs converted to ELSA. Those aircraft suffered 27 accidents through December 2013.

How many passengers were killed?

Uhhh....one.

How many serious injuries?

Uhhhh....two?

OBVIOUSLY, we need a change to FAA regulations to stop this slaughter!

Excel spreadsheet at:

http://www.wanttaja.com/elsa.xls

Ron Wanttaja


Yep, but not limited to government. I spend a substantial portion of my professional hours trying to prevent "safety initiative mission creep" at the university. Exact same thing: well-meaning people with too much time and imagination.

[Tom Charpentier]

All,

Our official comments can be found here: http://www.eaa.org/news/2014/releases/2014-03-28_8130-2H-EAA-comments.pdf

In drafting this response we relied heavily on experts in the field from the E-AB, LSA, and Exhibition/Racing communities. We're still working on this, but we're confident the major concerns will be addressed.

Have a great weekend!

Tom

[raytoews]

I'm not sure if this applies but it struck me, any time we can tip a borocrat go fo it.


http://i.imgur.com/OvjC9HL.jpg

Ray

[rwanttaja]

I'm not sure if this applies but it struck me, any time we can tip a borocrat go for it.

Is that like cow tipping? :-)

Ron Wanttaja