Team AeroDynamix Shut Out of Airventure????

[Rod Schneider]

I've seen on at least two other forums that the RV formation team, Team AeroDynamix, has not been invited to perform at AirVenture 2014. Why in the world would a flying team of home built airplanes, especially one that has demonstrated such a high degree of professionalism, not be invited to perform at a "convention" of homebuilt airplanes???
Is it because they are not sponsored by a high dollar company that will pay to have a display at AirVenture. This is very disappointing............

[FlyingRon]

Here's a statement direct from the one of the team members (lifted from the RV forums):

Allow me to provide you with some details. I would not characterise it as 'shunned again'. As we did fly the show last year. All shows are by invitation. We did not get invited to fly AirVenture this year. I cant tell you the exact reason as the process of selecting performers is not well known nor very transparent. I am told that it is by committee. That said, we were very disappointed to find out that we were not selected to perform.

The scrutiny of selection a couple of years back was a high bar for us in particular. We made a special visit, met with various officials at EAA, gave a presentation in front of those officials, showed them our training and safety program etc. We do not know of another performer that has had to do this. Doesn't mean it hasn't happened. And quite honestly, we welcomed the scrutiny for measuring up anytime. We have a very well documented program of training, standards, and 12 years of an unblemished safety record.



While we feel that our acts entertainment level on its own, rises to to the level of any air show regardless of size, our connection as homebuilders, flying experimental aircraft, of the type represented by the largest footprint of planes at AV, at the Experimental Aircraft Associations air show, does seem like a pretty good fit to me.



I definitely do not want this to turn into an EAA bash fest. Its not who we are and this is not the right forum for it. Our position would be, if you feel so inclined, by all means let EAA know. They do have forums like this one, and contacts there. Although quite honestly I would not personally know who to email or contact on this issue.

As always we very much appreciate your support in the home built community and whether we fly AV or not, we will be flying a full show season and will do our very best to represent you all in the most professional, dedicated and fun way that we can. Its what we do, having an absolute ball along the way. Getting to perform in front of our RV friends? Maybe not at AV. BUT...We hope to do you proud at Sun n Fun in a few weeks. NIGHT SHOW BABY!

[rv8bldr]

Although I built and fly an RV, I am not an RV zealot. They are great planes, but there are lots of great planes out there. Specifically, lots of great HOMEBUILT planes and we all should be proud of them. Especially EAA.

I must say that I am disappointed in EAA for this decision. I thought Jack was trying to bring EAA back to its roots, or at least closer to its roots, by shedding the big business bent that started to appear during Rod's reign. Here we have a highly professional, well trained, and extremely motivated collection of pilot-builders that put on an extremely entertaining and safe show. I would think that most, if not all, of us EAA members, especially the builders and pilots, find guys like this inspirational. "Hey, those guys built their own airplane just like I'm doing/have done". Seems like positive reinforcement to me.

What will REALLY tick me off is if Team AeroDynamix does not appear, but some idiot in a Kenworth with jet engine strapped to the back does. I get the "experimental" part of that, but I don't see the "aviation" part.

Just my $0.02.

[TedK]

I agree with all above.

Come on EAA, were you really thinking this one through?

Please reconsider.

[MEdwards]

Whoever the "team member" is who wrote the above is a gentleman. That alone should warrant reconsideration by the EAA committee. It's the behavior exemplified by Paul P. all his life and one of his big gifts to EAA.

I didn't expect much last year from the RV group--just a bunch of amateurs. But I was impressed. They put on a good show. I hope to see them again this year at Oshkosh.

[rvsuper8]

Whoever the "team member" is who wrote the above is a gentleman. That alone should warrant reconsideration by the EAA committee. It's the behavior exemplified by Paul P. all his life and one of his big gifts to EAA.

I didn't expect much last year from the RV group--just a bunch of amateurs. But I was impressed. They put on a good show. I hope to see them again this year at Oshkosh.

That quote was from me from the VAF forums off this thread (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=110396). Im the team Flight Lead Mike Stewart. You are very kind and I appreciate you taking a moment to say so.
PS I see you are from Las Cruces. I was born in Hobbs and my dad went to college in Las Cruces. I sure miss that part of the country.

[Kevin Horton]

I was very disappointed to learn that Team Aerodynamix will not be part of the airshow at AirVenture 2014, as their superb displays were one of the highlights of the show last year for my wife and I. I recognize that there are many other excellent airshow performers as well, so I certainly won't suggest that Team Aerodynamix should fly every day. But I strongly urge EAA to rework the schedule to have them perform on several days, including at least one early in the week.


I've seen some references which suggest that formation teams are on a rotation. Yet it seems like the AeroShell Aerobatic Team is there every year, and Warbirds of America fills the sky with T-28s and T-6s every year. And some solo performers are there every year.

EAA should be focused on amateur-built aircraft, and they should get priority at AirVenture in my opinion. If there aren't enough airshow minutes to go around, cut back on the number of minutes allocated to warbirds before dropping a world-class team of amateur-built aircraft. If there has to be a rotation, treat all teams equally.

[Floatsflyer]

If there aren't enough airshow minutes to go around, cut back on the number of minutes allocated to warbirds before dropping a world-class team of amateur-built aircraft. If there has to be a rotation, treat all teams equally.

Not the Warbirds, it is both a thrill and a blessing to be able to see these so few beautiful birds fly. I'm for dropping the definitely over subscribed number of solo aerobat acts. I mean, c'mon folks, just how many "laugenshlogers" can you see and take in one day!! Aerobatics are like breasts. Once you've seen one, you've seen them both.

[Kyle Boatright]

There are a whole lot of solo acts and warbird acts/flybys. I'm surprised EAA couldn't find room on the schedule for a team that exemplifies EAA - amateurs flying homebuilt aircraft and doing a great (and entertaining) job of it.

[Anymouse]

There was a similar thread last year. Bottom line is that there's a committee that determines the line up. I'm sure there are a lot more performers than there are slots in the line up. See Hal's post (#8) for the EAA stance.

http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?4146-Airshow-Lineup

[CheckerBird]

I am so disappointed in this news, and was so looking forward to see another Team AeroDynamix nighttime show that I am seriously considering skipping Airventure altogether this year. I saw their night show last year and it was the most impressive and stunningly beautiful performance I think I've ever seen at Oshkosh.

[Tom Casper]

I would join in those suggesting the decision be reconsidered. They put on an excellent act and were great ambassadors to aviation over on Aeroshell square (and also elsewhere on the grounds I am sure)

[Greg Busby]

I was looking forward to Team AD to perform now that they are not going to be there I will still go but 2014 marks as my very last airventure airshow not until EAA gets back to Grass Roots fly-ins will I attend Airventure Team AD is my favorite formation team

[fortnbry]

I am pretty sure there is no one single mysterious reason the team wasn’t chosen this year. It’s just the unfortunate result of a committee, like our congress, that is well intentioned but sometimes doesn’t see the forest for the trees. I bet the team will still be at Oshkosh all week to talk with loyal fans, sign autographs and support their amazing Sponsors. Please stop by and see them. They will probably be giving out pictures and answering any plane questions you may have.

I really wish EAA would reconsider having Team AeroDynamix especially for their awesome twilight performance. They have developed their craft into a crowd pleasing, professional demonstration of aviation art & skill in a relatively short time. I also strongly agree with another writer above that with their home built aircraft, they exemplify in every way the very reason EAA exits. Pursue your talent & your passion for flight! See you all at Oshkosh.

[FlyingRon]

I suspect the air shows decisions are based more on "How can we encourage the 'lawn chair' crowd of regional day trippers to pay the gate" more than they're concerned about any of the "airshow attendees." The same reason why we have the god awful Shockwave (which was a complete idiocy at night) and the Masters of Destruction nonsense.

[Bill Greenwood]

Kevin, while you may resent warbirds flying in the show, remember a few things.
1. Icas did audience surveys,( which may have some bias) and vintage warbirds were shown to be popular, and rated quite a bit higher than civilian acts.
2. Warbirds don't charge a fee as such other than getting fuel for the show, not for enroute or other expenses.
3. Another way to judge what the public wants to see is look at where the crowds go for the ground displays. Warbirds, along with modern military like a C5A, are where the people are. As well built as an RV may be, with lots of new electro gizmos on the panel, I don't think that is where most of the crowds go. You may be an avid homebuilder, but I doubt if most members are. I have done it once, but only as a minor partner. What % of members do you think are builders? and what % of the EAA crowd are?
4. Warbirds mostly fly in their own time segment not in the acro portion.
5. Perhaps the homebuilder division should set up a display and a small seating area, and have a top builder explain how he did his plane, the ups and downs and maybe how he chose the avionics and how the plane flies. This is what warbirds does, not with a builder ,but various important planes and often vets, and it is really popular.
6. Some warbirds are popular both because of high performance but also their place in history, in a way RV s aren't. RV s have been such a success that they have a place in homebuilder history, but I think the public would rather see FiFi or the Yegans Mosquito flying, than a number of Rvs, even ones that are well flown.

[FlyingRon]

2. Warbirds don't charge a fee as such other than getting fuel for the show, not for enroute or other expenses.
EAA doesn't pay for the acts. If you don't have sponsorship (or independent wealth) you don't come.

[Bill Greenwood]

Ron, as I understand them, and I may be wrong, the RV team are a professional act with a contract and a fee at most airshows, other than Oshkosh. Most warbird groups with some exceptions don't operate that way, although there is some overlap.

[mazdaP5]

4 pages of "what's your favorite airshow routine?" on this forum, and nobody mentioned AeroDynamix.
I'll put on my Nomex and get into this one. I thought AeroDynamix was boring. The planes aren't extreme in their flying like a Pitts or an Extra. They aren't loud commanding attention like a Stearman or T-6. They don't have awe inspiring history like the Warbirds do, or the speed of the jet displays. Sure, they fly very precise routines, but they don't have the "it" factor. I also thought they were too busy, too much going on at once. There was this happening here, that happening over there, they were all over the place.

I also believe that the fly in is for the members, but the airshow is for the public. I fall somewhere in between, I've been a member for 20 years, been going to Oshkosh for 30. But I'm not a pilot, or a builder. I like the showcase flying, can't be bothered much with the airshow acts, they are a bit samey. So the airshow acts that do come around have to really grab my attention. Aeroshell don't do anything different really that Team AeroDynamix do, but their show grabs you because the T-6 is loud and shouty. Obviously this is all just my personal opinion.

[Floatsflyer]

I also believe that the fly in is for the members, but the airshow is for the public. I fall somewhere in between, I've been a member for 20 years, been going to Oshkosh for 30. But I'm not a pilot, or a builder.

How's that possible? Attending Oshkosh for 30 years and you're not a pilot? Whatever happened to cause and effect? Nothing rubbed off? You must be made of Teflon. ;)

[Dave S]

Put me down as another one on the "I wanna see 'em at AirVenture" list!

[mikw53]

4 pages of "what's your favorite airshow routine?" on this forum, and nobody mentioned AeroDynamix.
I'll put on my Nomex and get into this one. I thought AeroDynamix was boring. The planes aren't extreme in their flying like a Pitts or an Extra. They aren't loud commanding attention like a Stearman or T-6. They don't have awe inspiring history like the Warbirds do, or the speed of the jet displays. Sure, they fly very precise routines, but they don't have the "it" factor. I also thought they were too busy, too much going on at once. There was this happening here, that happening over there, they were all over the place.


Yes Yes and Yes .They are boring.Don't get me wrong they are a great bunch of dedicated pilots but they don't move me .On a scale of 1 to 10 they are "cute".
Just my opinion which won't amount to much but that's my vote.
Cheers

[krw920]

How's that possible? Attending Oshkosh for 30 years and you're not a pilot? Whatever happened to cause and effect? Nothing rubbed off? You must be made of Teflon. ;)

Why must one be a pilot to love aviation? I use to thinK I wanted to be a pilot, until I tried it. I have this little problem of my brain saying to left and my body going right. Sure I could probably train myself out of it, but I just love to fly, but I don't want to be in control. Is that so bad?

[Anymouse]

Why must one be a pilot to love aviation? I use to thinK I wanted to be a pilot, until I tried it. I have this little problem of my brain saying to left and my body going right. Sure I could probably train myself out of it, but I just love to fly, but I don't want to be in control. Is that so bad?

I'm thinking Floats' post was more sarcasm than it was criticism. He even provided a wink smiley. Of course, the smileys still suck on this forum, so that doesn't help much.

[Floatsflyer]

I'm thinking Floats' post was more sarcasm than it was criticism. He even provided a wink smiley. Of course, the smileys still suck on this forum, so that doesn't help much.

To krw920: It wasn't sarcasm and it sure as hell wasn't criticism. It was tongue planted securely in cheek!! Hence the winkie. Geez! I'm selling sense of humour...cheap. How much ya want?

[krw920]

LOL...I got it! I just frustrate myself as I love to fly, but just don't feel I would make a good pilot, so I never took the initiative to do it. Just wish I had a few friends to catch a ride with once and awhile. Comercial just is a bus ride, small planes are fun!

[Rob Erdos]

Count my vote for TEAM AERODYNAMIX!

Dear EAA,
Please don't forget your roots as an organization of homebuilders. Aircraft builders are the heart of your success, and Team AeroDynamix represents the epitome of sport aviation discipline, professionalism and skill.
As I recall the daily airshows over the last few years, I have seen an extensive representation by competition aerobatic performers and warbirds, but relatively little from the homebuilders or antique/classic community. Team AeroDynamix does a great show; one which speaks to the dreamers in the crowed who might some day build an airplane. Please find a place for them at AirVenture.

Rob Erdos
Ottawa, Canada

[psvinny]

I rise in support of Team Aerodynamix at Airventure 2014. My wife and I thoroughly enjoyed their performance last year. I have noticed since Mr Pelton took the helm that the EAA has been much more responsive to members input. I hope this is the case here. Their show was very beautiful and an excellent display of their formation flying talents.

[jbandstr]

While I like some the solo acts, my favorites are the ones that involve multiple ships, so I, too, am in favor of seeing Team Aerodynamix perform at Airventure 2014.

[Floatsflyer]

LOL...I got it! I just frustrate myself as I love to fly, but just don't feel I would make a good pilot, so I never took the initiative to do it. Just wish I had a few friends to catch a ride with once and awhile. Comercial just is a bus ride, small planes are fun!

If you don't mind I'd like to offer some encouragement and advice. Firstly you need an attitude adjustment and a positive outlook. Your fears and anxiety are getting in the way of doing what you say you "love". It doesn't matter what you think, it's irrelevant, because what you think could be barriers and limitations may not be the case because you've never tried to test them. They may in fact be irrational.

This is what I suggest you do. If you have the financial resources and have some disposable income of about $500 to start, check out flight schools at non-controlled airports in your area(if available), visit them and then choose one that gives you confidence and a high degree of comfort level. Talk to instructors and choose one that thoroughly understands and appreciates your anxieties but be positive and enthusiastic in letting him/her know you want to try it out for about 3 hours of dual instruction. Don't sign up for any course, don't purchase ground school materials, don't get a student medical. All you want to do now is sit in the left seat and get some primary instruction to test yourself. 3 hours should be sufficient for you and the instructor to determine if you can do this in a relaxing, comfortable manner and you will instinctively know if you have the basic skills to go further. If you're not a big guy, take the instruction in a tricycle gear aircraft. A C150 or 152 will be your cheapest platform to allow you to maximize your money and therefore time in the air.

Let me know your thoughts.

[Sonerai2mx]

I'll try not to make this too rambling, so apologies off the bat. I just turned 32 a couple days ago, and this summer will be my 32nd Oshkosh. Granted I don't remember a lot of the shows in the 1980's I do know that I end up missing acts that I used to take for granted.

I miss the grace and precision of the Eagles and French Connection.

I miss the non-stop action of Leo Loudenslager.

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching Sean Tucker move from 1-800-Collect to 10-10-220 to the a Oracle Challenger.

I've never been a huge fan of the extended warbirds demonstrations, used to sleep through them as a kid and now the they're still good for a good nap. However, it pains me to see the diminishing numbers of participating warbirds year after year. They are an extremely important part of history and when I get the chance to meet the men and women who supported the war effort I am constantly humbled by their sacrifice.

Among the "recent" acts that have caused me to stop and take notice are of course the late Jimmy Franklin and the Jet Waco, the amazing duo of P51's called the Horsemen, the Northern Lights, the 4ce and others.

This past year, in my opinion. Was one of the better air show experiences of my life. I believe there were two separate RV solo acts, the return of the BD Jet, a demo of the Subsonex, Team AeroDynamix was truly fascinating to watch, and some new hardcore aerobatic acts to enjoy. I've always loved the hardcore aerobatic acts that makes you say to yourself "I never thought an airplane could do that." I enjoyed the flying of Rob Holland so much that as a regional airline captain I traded tips so that I could have an extended layover in Dallas the day of the World Aerobatic Championships 4 Minute Freestyele event. I like to think I've witnessed a lot of the modern day evolution of aerobatic flying and aircraft, but what he does is truly remarkable.

I know to a lot of EAA'ers I'm young and dumb, but I've long asked the question of why aren't there more homebuilts on Aeroshell square, and why should I give a crap what Embraer and Bombardier are doing with their corporate jets? I get that their money is needed and hopefully well spent, but when you have a chance to have a team like AeroDynamix who are in the true spirit of EAA volunteering their time and skill to fly an airshow you produce and fund, built on the backs of home builders and volunteers, and don't invite them to perform is an insult at best.

again, sorry about the long rant, but young or old, we all have passion for this association. Hopefully our collective voices will be heard.

[orvie6]

I guess I will add my 2 cents worth to this issue. I to wish to see the addition of any 'homebuilt' aircraft , team or solo, to the airshow. After all, is this not the EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT ASSOCIATION??? Come on, like others, I agree that big name Spam Can companies contribution to the show is welcome and needed financially, but like others have said, the GRASS ROOTS of this organization is in homebuilt aircraft! Mr. Pelton...if you read this and are truly intent on 'turning around' the mistakes of your predecessor, then lets keep as much homebuilt, experimental aircraft in the high lights as possible. True, even the big name airshow acts use highly modified or purpose built aircraft in there business... I don't think you will find to many of Sean Tuckers Oricle planes on the market to buy for your own use! Since the EAA also has a Warbirds division, they are always welcome and encouraged. I was not present last year, but do hope to make it this year, so I would love to see as many EXPERIMENTL AIRCRAFT as possible. I am aware that the show schedule is done by a select group, I say that the voice of the members should be heard also. Since they say there is strength in numbers, I cast my vote for Team AeroDynamix.
Wayne Hartman
EAA 594185

[Mayhemxpc]

It has been interesting reading the string. Personally, I like the RV team. Lots of fun to watch. I would rather see them than, for example, the Snow Birds. But I am concerned about the way the thread is going. Yes, we are the Experimental Aircraft Association. Homebuilt aircraft were the genesis and continue to be a core feature of the Association. That said, most of the aircraft in the airshow are "Experimental." Says so on the airplanes. Some are not, but I would wager that the vast majority are. Within EAA there are the amateur built airplanes, the vintage airplanes, aerobatic, ultralights, and warbirds. They are all EAA. All should be represented. (Please note that monster trucks, even when jet-powered, are NOT an EAA category.)

We don't know why AeroDynamix did not make the cut or how the decision was made not to invite them. We do know that they did not want that to be the cause of EAA bashing…which seems to have happened anyway.

Maybe, instead, we could ask for a little transparency in the invitation process, or at least know what the process is. It could be, you know, that homebuilt flight demonstration is planned…just not AeroDynamix. (Just speculation.)

[orvie6]

I am sorry if my post sounded like it was bashing the administration or EAA in general. That was not my intent. As noted in my post, I stated that most of the airshow performers were flying in planes listed as "Experimental"...either modified as Exibition, or as an entirely purpose built aircraft. And, you are correct in stating that we (as general members) are not present when the attendees list is made up, so we are not aware of the particular reasons for some not on that list. I totally enjoy ALL of Airventure, regardless of who and what is there, with maybe the exception of the jet truck!! ANYTHING aviation is fine with me... Now if they could just get some wings on the jet truck......???? LOL
Wayne