Your thoughts about Gyroplanes...

[John Craparo]

This is a multi-question post with something for everyone...

1. Wondering how many people here fly gyroplanes?
2. If yes, do you fly under part 103 or do you hold a certificate for gyros?
2. Are readers familiar with the newer aircraft in this category like the Magni M16 or the Autogyro MTO?
3. What are your conceptions of gyroplanes and would you ever consider learning to fly one?

Thanks,
John

[Zack Baughman]

1. Don't, but extremely interested!
2. NA
3. Yes. Also the LittleWing, the Phenix, the AutoGyro Cavalon, the ArrowCopter AC10 and many others.
4. I've been fascinated with Autogiros, gyroplanes, gyrocopters, autogyros, etc. since I first read about Johnny Miller and then later was able to meet and interview him for the Timeless Voices program. The LittleWing in particular is in my top two aircraft if I ever get around to building something (the other being a Pietenpol). Unfortunately, it is becoming harder and harder to find qualified gyroplane flight instructors. I would advise anyone interested in learning more to visit the Rotary Wing Forum at www.rotaryforum.com.

Zack

[martymayes]

1. Wondering how many people here fly gyroplanes?
2. If yes, do you fly under part 103 or do you hold a certificate for gyros?
2. Are readers familiar with the newer aircraft in this category like the Magni M16 or the Autogyro MTO?
3. What are your conceptions of gyroplanes and would you ever consider learning to fly one?


1. = not me.
2. = would like to hold a certificate for gyros.
(second) 2. = Yes. I saw them fly at the PRA convention in Mentone, IN a couple yrs ago.
3. = Someone across the lake from me builds gyros. I think they are definitely interesting. Getting training in a gyro seems to be somewhat of an obstacle but maybe one day.

[raytoews]

Years ago I bought a Benson from a guy who had broken the rotors. Beautiful set of wooden blades.
I bought a set of Rotor Hawks from a guy in Wetaskiin, fixed it up and flew it a few times.
I learned,
Gyros don't stall but if you pull to hard and the rotor slows down they come down, just like an airplane you have to dump the nose and get rotor speed up.
They will land and takeoff in a very short distance and that big wing flailing around above you provides a pretty steady gyroscope.
I taught myself to fly watching Ken Brock's video where he would run along at speed and balance the craft on it's main wheels. That was good training.
I flew it a half dozen times and sold it, just couldn't get used to the idea of sitting out front and having that wing spinning above me.
Last summer, about 40 yrs later, a friend who has a RAF 2000 which had been sitting in his garage for 20 yrs asked me to fly it.
I flew it a few times and then chickened out, I'm not invincible anymore.
What I did learn.
After getting the rotor up to speed keep the rotor level until you have flying speed, about 40-45 mph. Watch the rotor tach, remember, it slows down you come down. It flies very much like any airplane, handles about like a Cub or Champ or many of the older ultralights as far as responsive goes, reasonably docile, goes where you point it, sort of.
Fly approach like any airplane, touches down very nicely with very little float, flare reasonably hard with the stick back but not too much or the rotor will hit the ground behind you. Rotors are very fragile, even more than wings. Keep a good grip on the stick as any wind will move it abruptly and until it slows down substantially it will fly. Somebody that flies a lot could get it into and out of a very small space.
A very nice solid airplane and the Subaru had lots of power, but again despite being enclosed in a comforting bubble I just could not get used to the idea of the wing going around and around, helicopters give me the same hebejebes. Then I dream't about that one bolt holding the rotor on and I was done. Call me a chicken but I have grandchildren now I want to stick around as long as I can.
I like to look out and see a nice set of wings under me, that I understand.
It's for sale.
Ray

[Harold Powers]

Love gyros but you do need to get training from a gyro CFI. Rotor management is key.

Great opportunity to see many types of gyros at Bensen Days March 26-29 at Wachula Fl. See http://www.bensendays.us.com/ for details.

Harold

[John Craparo]

I would have loved to meet Johnny Miller. I grew up in NY not far from him and had heard stories about him seeing Glenn Curtiss fly while still in curls. I also heard about his flights between the Philadelphia post office roof and Camden, NJ airport about 3,000 times, without incident, on his airmail route during 1939 and 1940.

I recently received my gyroplane add-on and exercise it at every chance. I have been flying the Magni M-16. It would be great to see these machines for rent throughout the country. I know work is afoot pressing the FAA to move on allowing S-LSA gyros into the national fleet. I was not very interested in the category until I saw the Pitcairn PA-18 fly at AirVenture. This past year I met a gyro instructor here in TX and jumped right into lessons. It was a great transition and much more stable than the reputation created by powered push over incidents in the early Bensen machines of the 50's and 60's.

The little video created by, UK instructor, Phil Harwood tells a compelling story which I found to be right on the spot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8IB-5PbL9U

I am very interested in the opinions of other readers here. Perhaps Sport Aviation can do a feature article on gyros?! Please Please...

Thanks,
John
EAA Life Member
youcanflynow.com

[martymayes]

So John, have you considered writing a book about your gyro training and gyro flying experience? I'd be interested in buying it. Or, would you consider revising your "You Can Fly Now" book to include a chapter on gyro training and flying? Again, I'd be interested in buying.

[John Craparo]

Marty... yes, I do plan to add three chapters to the book. Hot Air Ballooning, Gyroplanes and Airpark Life will be the subjects. Thank you for saying you would be willing to read the book whether it's an update or a totally new one. That means a lot to me.

Best,
John

[1600vw]

This man is selling his gyro, he will teach you how to fly it.. This has a 914 turbo in it. I have seen this fly, its very nice.

http://www.barnstormers.com/listing_images.php?id=826876

[martymayes]

This man is selling his gyro, he will teach you how to fly it.. This has a 914 turbo in it. I have seen this fly, its very nice.

Yes, but will he provide training to complete the rating if I don't buy it?

[martymayes]

Marty... yes, I do plan to add three chapters to the book. Hot Air Ballooning, Gyroplanes and Airpark Life will be the subjects. Thank you for saying you would be willing to read the book whether it's an update or a totally new one. That means a lot to me.

Best,
John

Well John, there is a stipulation. You'll have to agree to sign the book I buy....lol.

[Chris In Marshfield]

I'd *love* to fly a gyro! The Magni is high on my "awesome list". M16 and M22 have me drooling!

Sadly, my AOPA ADD insurance specifically calls out experimental rotorcraft as a disqualifying event in case of loss of life or limb. That's unfortunate :(.

Sure doesn't keep me from wanting to put myself in one, though!

~Chris

[Hal Bryan]

Sadly, my AOPA ADD insurance specifically calls out experimental rotorcraft as a disqualifying event in case of loss of life or limb. That's unfortunate :(.

Hey Chris -

AOPA's insurance may rule them out...but ours doesn't.

I'm just sayin'... ;)

http://eaa.org/insurance/

-Hal

[Hal Bryan]

This is a multi-question post with something for everyone...

1. Wondering how many people here fly gyroplanes?
2. If yes, do you fly under part 103 or do you hold a certificate for gyros?
2. Are readers familiar with the newer aircraft in this category like the Magni M16 or the Autogyro MTO?
3. What are your conceptions of gyroplanes and would you ever consider learning to fly one?

Thanks,
John

And, in answer to the original poster's questions:

1. I have about a half hour in an RAF 2000, and would love to do more and get the add-on, etc.
2. N/A.
3. Very much so.
4. I find them fascinating, and largely underrated. See #1 above. :)

[Chris In Marshfield]

Hey Chris -

AOPA's insurance may rule them out...but ours doesn't.

I'm just sayin'... ;)

http://eaa.org/insurance/

-Hal

Great to know :cool: Thanks for the heads up!

~Chris

[Bill Gratriex]

Why are there no gyro instructors in Northern Ca. Or. or Nevada ?.
Seems like here all in the east or Texas.

[martymayes]

Why are there no gyro instructors in Northern Ca. Or. or Nevada ?.
Seems like here all in the east or Texas.

I agree Bill, lack of machines and instructors is a problem for a lot of people.

[zaitcev]

Why are there no gyro instructors in Northern Ca. Or. or Nevada ?.
Seems like here all in the east or Texas.
A dealer of Sportcopter is in Oregon, they provide training. It may be closer for you from Norcal.

[Skyhook]

Ray has me laughing still.

I am intrigued and fascinated by gyros, but a while back I recall some problem with gyros and the FAA. Seems like the FAA was 'down' on manufactured versions particularly if they were 'ferrin'.
Dunno.

[Cfibob]

John, briefly...
1. There are more gyro pilots being made everyday.
2. I hold a commercial and CFI for gyroplane.
3. Very familiar with the 'modern' gyroplanes.
4. Getting about 350 hrs/yr. in gyroplanes.

Instructors are out there. PRA has a list of some instructors and types of machines they teach in. There is such a vast diversity in types...from the 'tube and lawn chair' open machines to the high end side by side European imports. Get training in the 'type' of aircraft you want to fly. Even better...get training in make and model.

[Bill Gratriex]

Thanks
I have a e-mail off to them but I haven heard back from ham yet
Bill.

[Bill Gratriex]

PRA's list of instructors is ten years out dated
Bill

[martymayes]

PRA's list of instructors is ten years out dated


That has been my experience as well.

[John Craparo]

Powered Sport Flying Magazine regularly publishes lists of instructors across the gamut of categories the magazine covers... ultralights, airplanes, weight shift, powered parachute and gyros. These lists are kept current. I will ask Roy Beisswenger if I can reprint the gyro list in this thread.

John

[Cfibob]

If you let me know your location I will let you know of the gyro instructors and locations that I know. Please be aware that I am familiar with mostly 'modern gyro' instructors. Auto-Gyro now has their own internal 'certification standard/accreditation' of gyro instructors. Not all are listed on PRA. Modern gyros are one of the fastest growing segments of aviation in Europe. Here in the US we are held back somewhat by the lack of certified ready-to-fly aircraft. Don't let building a gyro hold you back though. Auto-Gyro's kits go together quickly (with builder assistance or build centers) in about 80hrs in most cases. All thee Auto-Gyro kits are on the official 51% list.
-Bob

[Bill Gratriex]

I am located in Susanville Ca.
That's in the north-east corner.
Bill

[Cfibob]

Bill,
I know of quality instruction by Mike Burton in Spanish Fork, Utah (AirGyro Aviation)... they are using a Calidus and soon will have a Cavalon on line. We will have a new dealer, Cammie Patch (Glass Cockpit Aviation), in the Boise, Idaho area that will be offering instruction in a Calidus very soon. Unfortunately, gyro instructors are not at every airport. The two that I have mentioned are not only FAA certificated but have also passed the Auto-Gyro Certified Flight Instructor course. You can be assured they will give you quality instruction.
-Bob

[Bill Gratriex]

Thanks Bob
I'll look in to that.
The guy in Scappoose Or. didn't bother to answer my e-mail.
Bill

[Harold Powers]

If you are interested in gyros, next week in Wachula, FL is the annual Bensen Days rotor flyin. There should be 75+ gyros there along with some instructors that you can get intro flights with.

http://www.bensendays.us.com/

Harold

[martymayes]

If FL is too far, PRA has an annual event in Mentone, IN during Aug.

In 2012 I went for one day with my boys and we had a great time. LOTS of gyros, plus home of a gyro museum - I had no idea!

[alfafoxtrot1]

Perhaps the group on this thread will appreciate knowing that some years ago a gyro kit manufacturer went to trial against a family that blamed his death on the design of the gyro. The jury learned all about gyroplanes over the next few weeks. In the end, not only did the manufacturer prevail, but one of the jurors bought a kit for himself.

[Bill Gratriex]

One way of drumming up sales

[feedpro]

The most recent issue of KitPlanes has my Sport Copter Vortex gyro plane on the front cover and a story inside. To talk to Sport Copter, phone them at 503-543-7000. Jim Vanek is just too busy to do email. I have had the same problem. Jim does a great job of instruction for those who buy his kits.
Powered Sport flying magazine carried two of my stories about learning to fly a gyro at Scappoose, OR, and another one about the test flights.
I first got interested in gyro planes down on the farm at Oshkosh. Gyro flying is the most fun an old tail wheel commercial pilot can have.

[John Craparo]

The April issue of Powered Sport Flying Magazine will include a current list of Gyroplane CFIs. The issue can be found at Barnes and Noble, Hastings or by subscription in a week or so.

John Craparo
EAA Lifetime
youcanflynow.com
ASEL, ASES, GYR, GLI, LTA, PPC, AGI, LSRM - AP, GLI, PPC, WSC