Getting final airworthiness certificate

[Mfly]

I bought a 2 seat kolb recently and it came with a special airworthiness cert. is this the permanent certificate or do I need a certificate that doesn't say special on it? Plane has 38 hrs on it. Also I found some paperwork that lists a specific area to fly in. Am I limited to that area? Thx for any input.

[1600vw]

This is used for the 40 hr fly off. Yes you are limited to that area that is listed on the forum or paper work. These are not like GA certified airplanes that have a 20-50 NM fly off area. On these you must keep them within the stated area's.
Once this 40 hrs is flown off you will get your permanent certificate.

Tony

[martymayes]

I bought a 2 seat kolb recently and it came with a special airworthiness cert. is this the permanent certificate or do I need a certificate that doesn't say special on it? Plane has 38 hrs on it. Also I found some paperwork that lists a specific area to fly in. Am I limited to that area? Thx for any input.

It will always say special on it. What is the date of issuance? That is probably the permanent a/w cert.

Yes, you are limited to that area until the specified test hr period is complete. That's called Phase I.
Once the time is flown off, you make an entry in the records saying Phase I is complete and the a/c is controllable throughout isn't normal envelope, yada, yada, then you can fly anywhere.

[1600vw]

Marty thanks for the post. I could not remember every detail, its been to long.

Tony

[1600vw]

I have a friend going through this now. Because of insurance he needs a pilot with so many hrs flight time. To make this short. This guy gets in this airplane that has NEVER been flown. Takes off and flies off. Out of site within mins. This airplane has a two stroke engine on it. Not that it matters but it does.
I asked the owner or my friend what the paper work says for the fly off area. he said....does not matter he can fly anywhere he wants as long as he stays within 50 miles....WRONG... I tried and tried to get this man to understand, this just was not correct. I could not get this man to understand this.
Get this..He is an A&P. I mentioned this to the man doing the test flying and you would think I mentioned I robbed a bank. I gave up and walked away letting them do what they want, for whom am I to tell this man with 1000 hrs flying or this A&P...They no not what they are doing...but they don't.

Tony

[1600vw]

I have a friend going through this now. Because of insurance he needs a pilot with so many hrs flight time. To make this short. This guy gets in this airplane that has NEVER been flown. Takes off and flies off. Out of site within mins. This airplane has a two stroke engine on it. Not that it matters but it does.
I asked the owner or my friend what the paper work says for the fly off area. he said....does not matter he can fly anywhere he wants as long as he stays within 50 miles....WRONG... I tried and tried to get this man to understand, this just was not correct. I could not get this man to understand this.
Get this..He is an A&P. I mentioned this to the man doing the test flying and you would think I mentioned I robbed a bank. I gave up and walked away letting them do what they want, for whom am I to tell this man with 1000 hrs flying or this A&P...They no not what they are doing...but they don't.

Tony

You would have thought I was an expecting father waiting in the waiting room. I was pacing back and forth saying things like....I can't believe he flew off....I hope nothing goes wrong....I hope....I wish...
the owner of the air park said things like...settle down...why do you care....shut up.....

When he did finally return I just kinda stood there listening....First thing I heard...developed a fuel leak around 15 miles out, thought I better turn back....There's a puddle of fuel in the passenger seat....

I mean no disrespect to these men. These men troll this site at least the owner does and he reads my posts. I hope he understands I only have his best interests in mind and those around me. I do not want to come off as a Know-it-all. I don't and will be the first to admit to this, but I will tell you if you are doing it wrong. If you hate me for it, nothing I can do about that.

Tony

[Mfly]

do all kolbs have a special airworthiness certificate?

[martymayes]

do all kolbs have a special airworthiness certificate?

Any Kolb that is built and registered as an experimental-amateur built aircraft has a special a/w certificate. They are not eligible for a standard a/w certificate.

[FlyingRon]

Yes, as Marty and the others allude to, the experimentals all have "SPECIAL" airworthiness certificates. The operating limitations may get amended (in the old days, now they just put the verbiage that releases you from the phase I restrictions after you've flown them off), but you are don't get a new certificate.

[Mfly]

Thx for replies, I got it figured out. After talking to fsdo , I learned that the phase 1 sign off was after 5 hrs and the plane now is in phase 2 and good to go anywhere but congested airspace. And there is no other certificate work to be done, the original special aw cert. is the final one.

[Sam Buchanan]

Thx for replies, I got it figured out. After talking to fsdo , I learned that the phase 1 sign off was after 5 hrs and the plane now is in phase 2 and good to go anywhere but congested airspace. And there is no other certificate work to be done, the original special aw cert. is the final one.

You can request an amended airworthiness certificate that does not have the "congested airspace" restriction. Unless restricted by the airworthiness certificate, experimental aircraft can generally use any airspace (below 18,000' ??....I need to check on this...) if equipped with a transponder when in Class B or C airspace.

The five hour fly off is a bit odd, that usually is for a E-LSA aircraft, maybe your Kolb is E-LSA. If it is E-LSA, you are going to have some maintenance requirements you need to know about. The release into Phase Two needs to be stated in the aircraft logbook.

E-AB aircraft will have either a 25 or 40 hour Phase One.

[FlyingRon]

I have never seen any operating limitations (of FAR for that matter) that bans experimentals from "congested airspace." The wording is "flight over densely populated areas or congested airways." The latter I always wondered about. The only "congested airway" I've seen is the Ripon to OSH transition and it wouldn't be so congested without the experimentals in it.

[CarlOrton]

My limitations state (exact quote): Except for takeoffs and landings, this aircraft may not be operated over densely populate areas or in congested airways. BUT THEN the next limitation states (my emphasis added): This aircraft is prohibited from operating in congested airways or over densely populated areas unless directed by air traffic control, or unless sufficient altitude is maintained to effect a safe emergency landing in the event of a power unit failure, without hazard to persons or property on the ground.

[Mfly]

My operating limitations say E-Lsa and also state the same phrase as carlorton stated. And yes my phase 1 only required 5 hrs and a sign off in the logbook that states that the aircraft is controllable ,yada,yada,yada. I don't have a transponder so I won't be going near any class A, B, or C airspace. Although I could operate in a class C if I request an authorized deviation from ATC at least 1 hr before proposed operation.

[martymayes]

Mfly - 2 seat Kolb - you got any pictures?

[Sam Buchanan]

I have never seen any operating limitations (of FAR for that matter) that bans experimentals from "congested airspace." The wording is "flight over densely populated areas or congested airways." The latter I always wondered about. The only "congested airway" I've seen is the Ripon to OSH transition and it wouldn't be so congested without the experimentals in it.

Yep, thanks for the clarification, I failed to distinguish between "airspace" and "airway".