Avenger V with 1/2 VW and traffic alert

[1600vw]

I made a bone head move and got forum-a-gasket in my oil and this got into the oil gallery in the crank and starved the crank for oil. I will sell this airplane with an engine from Hummel for 7000.00 or as is for 4500.00. Scott Casler at Hummel told me not to expect this engine until after the first of the year, he is that backed up.

I have already sent the heads off and had the valves redone and all. The heads looks new.

Central IL location, registration is current.

[eiclan]

Gday, that forma gasket is horrible stuff,the right gasket and sealant and use of a torque wrench usually gets the job done. Cheers Ross

[1600vw]

Gday, that forma gasket is horrible stuff,the right gasket and sealant and use of a torque wrench usually gets the job done. Cheers Ross


Note real sure what I am to torque. My Mosler 1/2 VW uses a Bail style wire to hold the cover on no screws or bolts. You would have to post a video of that one. Not sure how a torque wrench would help here. Please post a pic of this.

[1600vw]

A few more Pics.

[1600vw]

The Crank

[eiclan]

Note real sure what I am to torque. My Mosler 1/2 VW uses a Bail style wire to hold the cover on no screws or bolts. You would have to post a video of that one. Not sure how a torque wrench would help here. Please post a pic of this.

It was a general comment as you didn't say where the forma gasket was,though there seems to be excessive amount of product.Don't worry you aren't the first or last to suffer from this situation.I have been caught ,in my youth ,the same way and it is and always will be a !@#$%^%& moment.Cheers Ross

[1600vw]

It was a general comment as you didn't say where the forma gasket was,though there seems to be excessive amount of product.Don't worry you aren't the first or last to suffer from this situation.I have been caught ,in my youth ,the same way and it is and always will be a !@#$%^%& moment.Cheers Ross

If you notice, that forum -a-gasket on that cover did not cause this. That was installed correctly. The forum a-gasket was used correctly. maybe a little heavy but that was not bad for the way it was used.

Most use this stuff right out of the tube. Squeeze it out on what you need it on, then slap it together. You just did it wrong.

The forum-a-gasket needs to skin over. depending on temp and all it could take 20 mins for this to skin over, to cold and it won't skin over. You can tell in the photo that indeed this did skin over. Look at how the forum-a-gasket formed little balloons when the cover use installed. That is how it should look if to much is used.

I had an A&P when I fist purchased this airplane get this stuff in the engine. He did as I said and just slapped it all together. I could tell you the horror stories of what he did but why.

Now why do I put so much forum-a-gasket on that cover. I do not trust that wire to hold that cover in place. You remove that wire and you have to work to get that cover off. Use very little and it will just fall off. It happened to me after that A&P worked on my airplane. Then he went nuts with the stuff and did not know the correct way to use it, I had the stuff everywhere.

[rwanttaja]

Now why do I put so much forum-a-gasket on that cover. I do not trust that wire to hold that cover in place.
Hmmmm...how often does that happen on the cars? Over the years, I owned a '64 Sedan, '71 Super Beetle, and a '74 Thing. Never had a valve cover came off, even when the rocker arm fell off on one side.

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

Hmmmm...how often does that happen on the cars? Over the years, I owned a '64 Sedan, '71 Super Beetle, and a '74 Thing. Never had a valve cover came off, even when the rocker arm fell off on one side.

Ron Wanttaja

There was around 7 people whom saw this happen. I lost both valve covers. I have never had one fall off myself, but then again I use a gasket, he did not, only forum-a-gasket.

[martymayes]

Hmmmm...how often does that happen on the cars? Over the years, I owned a '64 Sedan, '71 Super Beetle, and a '74 Thing. Never had a valve cover came off, even when the rocker arm fell off on one side.

Ron Wanttaja

Even though remote, it can happen. However, it's not difficult to safety the retaining bail which reduces the probability of it inadvertently releasing to zero.

[rwanttaja]

There was around 7 people whom saw this happen. I lost both valve covers. I have never had one fall off myself, but then again I use a gasket, he did not, only forum-a-gasket.
Like I said, I owned VW Beetle autos over a ~25 year period and never lost a valve cover. Never even heard of it, and I don't think the John Muir book ("How to keep your Volkswagen Alive") mentioned it, either. With tens of millions of these on the road in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, it seems like I should have seen have seen ejected valve covers scattered along the roads. But I didn't.

I did a couple of Google searches, looking for mention of ejected valve covers, and found zip.

I'm not doubting that you had problems, but am curious as to why it happens. Is it related to the two-cylinder conversion?

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

Like I said, I owned VW Beetle autos over a ~25 year period and never lost a valve cover. Never even heard of it, and I don't think the John Muir book ("How to keep your Volkswagen Alive") mentioned it, either. With tens of millions of these on the road in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, it seems like I should have seen have seen ejected valve covers scattered along the roads. But I didn't.

I did a couple of Google searches, looking for mention of ejected valve covers, and found zip.

I'm not doubting that you had problems, but am curious as to why it happens. Is it related to the two-cylinder conversion?

Ron Wanttaja


Nothing to do with the twin conversion. It has to do with someone thinking they know everything. I ran this A&P off. The gaskets hold the valve cover tight against the bail wire. Remove the gasket and the valve cover will fall off as it did me. But because an A&P did the work I did not check it. That will never happen again.

Not all A&P's should work on an EAB.

[1600vw]

Hmmmm...how often does that happen on the cars? Over the years, I owned a '64 Sedan, '71 Super Beetle, and a '74 Thing. Never had a valve cover came off, even when the rocker arm fell off on one side.

Ron Wanttaja


That is because it was installed correctly. Remove the bail on mine and the covers will not fall off. If you read my post I state this. Once the bail is removed you must work to get that cover off.

[rwanttaja]

Nothing to do with the twin conversion. It has to do with someone thinking they know everything. I ran this A&P off. The gaskets hold the valve cover tight against the bail wire. Remove the gasket and the valve cover will fall off as it did me.
Ah, gotcha. It's been 15 years since I've owned a VW, but I remember the valve cover gasket was made of thick cork. Put something thinner in there and it'll be loose.

Thanks for the info....

Ron Wanttaja

[1600vw]

Ah, gotcha. It's been 15 years since I've owned a VW, but I remember the valve cover gasket was made of thick cork. Put something thinner in there and it'll be loose.

Thanks for the info....

Ron Wanttaja

Not a problem at all Ron.
Now we hit on the reason I have a problem with a GA or general Aviation A&P having to do my condition inspection. Just because one is an A&P does not really mean they know what is needed to keep an EAB running reliably.
Ask an A&P to work on a set of AZUSA brakes and see what you get. Every EAB I have seen has these for wheels and brakes.
Can I be the only one whom has ever had this kinda problems with an A&P working on their airplane? Surely I am not the only person to own an EAB they did not build. Thanks for the comments, by the way.

Tony

[martymayes]

Can I be the only one whom has ever had this kinda problems with an A&P working on their airplane? Surely I am not the only person to own an EAB they did not build.

How many different A&P's have you hired to work on your airplane? I seriously doubt your experience is representative of A&P's in the homebuilt world.

Put another way, an A&P throws all his practical knowledge out the window when he works on a homebuilt and assumes the engine is assembled with sealant only and no gaskets? Really?

[1600vw]

How many different A&P's have you hired to work on your airplane? I seriously doubt your experience is representative of A&P's in the homebuilt world.

Put another way, an A&P throws all his practical knowledge out the window when he works on a homebuilt and assumes the engine is assembled with sealant only and no gaskets? Really?

You doubt this happened?

[Jim Hann]

How many different A&P's have you hired to work on your airplane? I seriously doubt your experience is representative of A&P's in the homebuilt world.

Put another way, an A&P throws all his practical knowledge out the window when he works on a homebuilt and assumes the engine is assembled with sealant only and no gaskets? Really?

Marty,
I would have agreed with you a year ago. Now deep into a rebuild/repair job on a certificated aircraft due to shoddy work and some possible pencil-whipping by an IA, I tend to agree with 1600vw. Are these guys coming out of an A&P mill or what? All the A&Ps/IAs I'm working with can only shake their heads at what we've seen in my airplane and this is a standard category, not an E-AB.

Jim

[rwanttaja]

Not a problem at all Ron.
Now we hit on the reason I have a problem with a GA or general Aviation A&P having to do my condition inspection. Just because one is an A&P does not really mean they know what is needed to keep an EAB running reliably.
Ask an A&P to work on a set of AZUSA brakes and see what you get. Every EAB I have seen has these for wheels and brakes.
Can I be the only one whom has ever had this kinda problems with an A&P working on their airplane? Surely I am not the only person to own an EAB they did not build. Thanks for the comments, by the way.
I think this problem is going to arise every time an EAB's systems use equipment that is not used in production-like aircraft, because it falls outside their experience base. VW's are notorious for leaking valve covers; the A&P used the kind of solution they're used to. But they didn't have the background to realize that the bail holding the cover on depended upon a gasket of a particular thickness and material. Using a liquid gasket product would probably have worked on an A65, but he didn't think forward enough to realize the drawback in a different application.

It's the A&P's fault, true, but in fairness, they don't get a lot of experience in these out-of-the-box situations. Tony's experience is a good warning to all of us.

With a Continental-powered Fly Baby, I'm mostly protected from these sorts of situations. I've had only three different A&Ps over ~25 years of Fly Baby ownership (and the first was a homebuilder), and there have been only one or two instances where I had to gently inform them that their intended action Was Not a Good Idea in a Fly Baby.

Ron Wanttaja

[martymayes]

You doubt this happened?

I'm asking for data because you have formed and expressed an opinon, no doubt based on your experience, that A&P mechanics are not capable of inspecting/repairing a homebuilt. One bad apple does not spoil the whole barrel.

[1600vw]

I'm asking for data because you have formed and expressed an opinon, no doubt based on your experience, that A&P mechanics are not capable of inspecting/repairing a homebuilt. One bad apple does not spoil the whole barrel.


Marty I had nother A&P whom works on Helicopters help me install my new prop. He graps the torque wrench and tightens each bolt to torque not going in a X pattern but one after the other. After he is done I check the tracking and guess what the prop is way off track. I take the wrench from him and as I am loosening the bolts explaining why when torquing something you need to go in an X pattern.
He is saying things like my crank and or prop. I let him rant.
I re-torque the prop not only going in a X pattern but stepping it down 3 times to torque value. After I am done I recheck tracking and it perfect. To this day this A&P will not talk to me. I am a know it all. I have heard him tell others this.
He wont even say hello......

[1600vw]

Please everyone I am not knocking these men. They where trying to help me. I am pointing out you must watch whom works on your EAB. Just because they hold the title A&P does not mean they will do the job correctly.

I had another A&P whom works on Helicopters help me repair my wooden wing spar. He did some of the best work I have seen. Then another A&P whom walked by and pointed a couple things out to me and guess what. I ignored him. What he told me about came back and did just what he said and I am lucky to be here typing this today. I will listen to everything any A&P tells me. I just watch what they do. When you find one that works good for you stick with him and take care of him or her.

[1600vw]

Please everyone I am not knocking these men. They where trying to help me. I am pointing out you must watch whom works on your EAB. Just because they hold the title A&P does not mean they will do the job correctly.

I had another A&P whom works on Helicopters help me repair my wooden wing spar. He did some of the best work I have seen. Then another A&P whom walked by and pointed a couple things out to me and guess what. I ignored him. What he told me about came back and did just what he said and I am lucky to be here typing this today. I will listen to everything any A&P tells me. I just watch what they do. When you find one that works good for you stick with him and take care of him or her.

I am sorry that was not a spar but a rib.