Air Mail route markers from the 1920s??

[dewi8095]

See the link below? I just read about these for the first time. Are any of them still out there?? Has anyone ever seen them from the air?

http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/arrows.asp

Don

[Jonathan Harger]

Check out this blog post from Chapter 936 in Utah: http://eaachapter936.blogspot.com/2013/01/concrete-arrows.html
There are some aerial photos, and also a more complete history than the blurb in the Snopes article.
I love aviation artifacts like this; thank you for posting.

[cluttonfred]

Wonderful stuff. Now here's a project...I wonder if it would be possible to find a comprehensive list of each and every one of these sites with the latitude and longitude? It would be great fun to put that up on a web site and have pilots send in photos of each one as it looks today, kind of like GPS cache hunting from the air. The link above gives the coordinates for three of them...here's a link to one on Google Maps (https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=37%C2%B010'50.03%22N+113%C2%B024'1.45%22W&sll=37.180561,-113.396573&sspn=0.000871,0.001206&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&ll=37.180561,-113.400407&spn=0.000871,0.001206&z=20). I bet there are many that have been caught up by development but might still be visible in outline from the air under the lawn or something like that. There must have been little houses for the folks that maintained the generators and lights...I bet some are now private homes, like old lighthouses.

[Tom Charpentier]

Here's a similar thing that is really strange: giant concrete crosses in the desert, used to calibrate Corona spy satellites in the '60s: http://www.panoramio.com/photo/9466250

[RV8505]

Isn't there a airway marker beacon in the EAA museum?

[Tom Charpentier]

There are a few scattered around the grounds - two are in Camp Scholler (one near the road, one near the Pobereznys' old home), and I'm not sure where the one at Pioneer came from. We also have two examples indoors and the "Lindbergh Beacon" that once sat atop the Palmolive Building in Chicago.

[cub builder]

You'll find one of these old air route beacons along with an original generator, other support equipment and other aviation memorabilia of that time restored and converted into a museum at the Grants-Milan airport in New Mexico.

-CubBuilder

[Zack Baughman]

Here is a picture (apologies for the poor quality) of a model of one of the arrows and beacons that I took at the IPMS (International Plastic Modelers Socity) Nationals contest in Loveland, CO last month. It gives you a pretty good idea of the layout:

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[Jonathan Harger]

While we're on the subject of geoglyphs, I'd love to take an AirCam trip and see the Nazca Lines... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazca_Lines

[RV8505]

Here is a picture (apologies for the poor quality) of a model of one of the arrows and beacons that I took at the IPMS (International Plastic Modelers Socity) Nationals contest in Loveland, CO last month. It gives you a pretty good idea of the layout:

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Wouldn't it be cool to build a replica over at pioneer airport with one of the towers? Since were not part of a airway system, We could number it 711 and point it due west for all the departed aviators to find their way west. it wouldn't cost much to do. http://www.ruralswalabama.org/attractions/the-old-airport-tower-beacon-at-evergreen-al/

[champ driver]

In St Paul MN there is a still functioning airways beacon on the bluff overlooking Holman Field. Every night it lights white-white in addition to the standard airport beacon lighting white-green.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee225/jamesgevay/Aviation/IMG_18481024x768_zps79d79e0a.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/jamesgevay/media/Aviation/IMG_18481024x768_zps79d79e0a.jpg.html)http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee225/jamesgevay/Aviation/IMG_1865768x1024_zps6848e6e5.jpg (http://s228.photobucket.com/user/jamesgevay/media/Aviation/IMG_1865768x1024_zps6848e6e5.jpg.html)

[Richard Warner]

I went to the Alabama link posted on RV8505's post on page 1 and that is so pretty. That one and the Minnesota picture above brings back memories. There was an emergency field and airway beacon north of Covington, LA. I can remember, as a 4 year old child riding out there with my parents to pick up my brother who had landed there when he flew in from Baton Rouge, in what I now know to have been a pre-war Aeronca Chief. This was just before the beginning of WWll. He would buzz our house in town and cut the engine and yell "Come & Get Me". The field was about 5 miles north of Covington and on the east side of what is now Hwy 437, aka Lee Road. That was the first time I can remember ever seeing an airplane on the ground. The field and beacon are no more as it is all forest now. I have an old aeronautical chart, similar to our Sectional charts that shows this field on it.

[LarryAZ]

There are some very early ones out there. There is one that predates the light towers and was surveyed by Charles Lindbergh on the Mogollon Rim above Payson, AZ. I'm told there is another one in Mesa, AZ, but I've not found it. The one above Payson is maintained at a volunteer camp out every year. I would attach a Google Earth .kmz file of the location, but it doesn't seem possible to attach files here, so here's an image and coordinate. 34° 25.083'N 111° 24.522'W. Found the attachment button, but it declares Google Earth .kmz files as invalid and won't upload them. :confused: You should be able to paste the coordinate above into GE and go right too the marker.
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[Tom Charpentier]

This video of some guys who made a high-frequency replica of a Low Frequency ("four course") Range always intrigued me. Maybe we should set up an LFR approach in Oshkosh :rollseyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-VqtNY8vpw

[RV8505]

Wouldn't it be cool to build one of these at Oshkosh? The EAA has the biggest part (Tower).

[Skylane Pilot]

See the link below? I just read about these for the first time. Are any of them still out there?? Has anyone ever seen them from the air?

http://www.snopes.com/travel/airline/arrows.asp

Don

I found the remains of an concrete arrow in NE Indiana which was part of the New York - Chicago airmail route. It was airway beacon No. 14 (Helmer). I've been trying to find evidence of the airmail route across northern Indiana.

Our rotating beacon at C62 was originally used on the airmail route (airway beacon No. 13) and then relocated the airport in the 1950's.

[Zack Baughman]

How did you go about finding it?

[Skylane Pilot]

How did you go about finding it?

I started out with some old US Coast and Geodetic maps that I own dated from the 1940's. They show airway beacon locations if they still existed at the time the map was made. Also have used websites, for example, www.atchistory.org (http://www.atchistory.org). It's the history of Flight Service and has a wealth of information.

[Skylane Pilot]

How did you go about finding it?

When you stop along the road and start walking around with a map in your hand it's not long before the landowner comes down to see what you're doing. When I explain what I'm looking for, they start telling me stories handed down from their father and/or grandfather about when the airmail beacons were up and running. They will point out just exactly the beacons were built and if anything is left of them.

[Hal Bryan]

The Paleofuture blog just published a story about the arrows and beacons - nice to see any aspect of aviation history getting some attention!

http://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/the-highway-of-light-that-guided-early-planes-across-1466696698

[dewi8095]

It occurred to me that these arrows pointed only in one direction. Was it east to west or west to east? Shouldn't have been too difficult to follow them regardless of which way they pointed, but they obviously were not pointed on both ends. I also wonder if there were any north-south or south-north airmail routes that used them?

Don

[RV8505]

It occurred to me that these arrows pointed only in one direction. Was it east to west or west to east? Shouldn't have been too difficult to follow them regardless of which way they pointed, but they obviously were not pointed on both ends. I also wonder if there were any north-south or south-north airmail routes that used them?

Don


That's why we should build a complete station at pioneer village to tell the story!

[Skylane Pilot]

It occurred to me that these arrows pointed only in one direction. Was it east to west or west to east? Shouldn't have been too difficult to follow them regardless of which way they pointed, but they obviously were not pointed on both ends. I also wonder if there were any north-south or south-north airmail routes that used them?

Don

According to the book General Airway Information, published by US Department Of Commerce, 1931, "The beacon lights are numbered from west to east or south to north, depending on the general direction of the airway, the number corresponding in each case to the nearest 10-mile interval."

[MickYoumans]

http://www.messynessychic.com/2013/11/15/the-forgotten-giant-arrows-that-guide-you-across-america/
http://surveymarks.planetzhanna.com/airway-beacons-list-eastern-u-s/
http://surveymarks.planetzhanna.com/airway-beacons-list-western-u-s/
Here is another article about the markers and links to the locations of all of the markers including lat/long coordinates.