Camp Scholler Blues

[Kiwi ZK-CKE]

I've finally made the visit across half a world to attend Oshkosh. Loving the show and the selection of aircraft to admire. I am however totally hating camp Scholler and finding my time is a misery. Not blaming EAA, but there are some factors I wasn't aware of.

flying in buy commercial airline, I couldn't bring much with me. I picked up a tent etc locally and arrived Tuesday evening. The camp was pretty full then so was directed to a spot far away in the SW corner. Far away from showers or wifi shack (have to drive to get there) and no sign of any of the famous socialising. There are other tents around but I've never seen the occupants. I certainly feel very lonely and isolated. The buses to the show are good, but the queues to get back after the Wed night show were huge and intimidating to a Kiwi who isn't used to such crowds. I therefore walked back to my tent, 45minutes. In the process I developed a number of very painful blisters on my feet, and walking any distance is impossible. Even with pain killers I couldn't manage more than this morning on site. This has completely ruined my Oshkosh experience.
the final straw is the absence of anywhere to get a proper meal for dinner in the camp area. Pizza and snack foods just don't fill the gap, and without cooking gear there's nothing. I certainly don't want to have to walk more miles to find somewhere that serves suitable stuff and is actually open.
So, isolated, lonely, in pain and starving... The true gulag experience.

[I_FLY_LOW]

They have popcorn at the Ford outdoor theatre...

[Joe Delene]

I'd like to help, but I vacated & go back to work tomorrow. Some large 'band aids'(or wraps) would help with the blisters, more than painkillers. Have you tried the 'international tent'? Go check out that 'Beech to OSH Tent', they are friendly folk from all over(row 530 in the camping section), tell them your predicament. There are better food options out the North gates, up by the Hilton, should be a bus running til fairly late.

[Janet Davidson]

That sucks, I'm really sorry to read of your woes.

I feel like I'm always saying this, but I guess its because I believe in it - I know you've only arrived, but have you considered signing up as a volunteer? It won't cure the blisters or the tent location, but it may help you find some like-minded folks? Just don't sign up for anything which involves walking long distances!

Did you have time to sign in at the International Visitors tent? And sign up for the International party? Or sign up as a volunteer at that tent? They always like to have folks helping out for a few hours. Oops - I see Joe just wrote about it too.

Is this your plane? http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/5295 It looks pretty cool. What's it like to fly?

[martymayes]

Yup, that is life in the back 40 at Camp Scholler, fend for yourself.

I kinda like the back 40, but I always bring a bicycle, having given up on local transportation several yrs ago. I really don't understand why a bike rental outfit is not invited to come out and set up shop during the show. Or maybe they could set up one of those bike rentals like Wash. DC has now. Every other street corner has bikes for rent, vending machine style.

I wonder of Jimmy Johns or a local pizza joint would deliver to Scholler?

[martymayes]

They have popcorn at the Ford outdoor theatre...

FREE popcorn. They make up for it in drink sales, lol.

[turbopilot]

... The true gulag experience.

I posted about my concern with the "first come first serve policy" in Camp Scholler in this (http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?3927-AirVenture-First-Come-First-Serve-Policy-Time-for-a-Change)thread. I am now in Camp Scholler after traveling from California. While my experience in much better than the person who started this thread, my first visit to Camp Schuller confirms my suspicion, first come first serve only serves the locals who begin to stake out all the prime spots beginning on June 28th.

I rolled into Camp Scholler last Saturday afternoon. The campground was already getting very full. Of course there were no spots available with 1/2 mile of the entrance gates. All those spots were all ready occupied by the locals who staked out early or otherwise reserved for VIPS.

As clearly demonstrated by this poor fellow coming all the way from New Zealand, the first come first serve policy only serves the locals. This policy must end.

On a positive note other than the issue of first come first serve I was very impressed with how Camp Schuller is being served. Trash is picked up promptly and the port-a-poty's are cleaned regularly.

[I_FLY_LOW]

Hmmmm Do the ones that go there and stake out spots, pay for them, from June 28th until the show is over, and they leave? Speaking of which, I peruse the good spots the whole time I'm there. You'd be surprised how early some people pack up and leave from the good spots. I'm not afraid to pack my stuff up, and move closer to the flight line...

[turbopilot]

Hmmmm Do the ones that go there and stake out spots, pay for them, from June 28th until the show is over, and they leave? Speaking of which, I peruse the good spots the whole time I'm there. You'd be surprised how early some people pack up and leave from the good spots. I'm not afraid to pack my stuff up, and move closer to the flight line...

Not really sure what is going on about early stake outs, but you can be sure no one from New Zealand is here staking out a site early.

I did notice that a bunch of people who arrived last weekend in my area left this morning. Right now there are a number of open sites around me. By last Sunday night my area was full. I am not in a place that is particularly desirable. It is pretty far from the gates.

[martymayes]

Hmmmm Do the ones that go there and stake out spots, pay for them, from June 28th until the show is over, and they leave?

That's what I understand.

[kmacht]

There is a first aid building over by the control tower. They have some pretty good medical people working there that can clean and tape up those blisters so you can walk again. If you are still in pain they rent motorized scooters just to the left of the main entrance by the bus park. As far as food, head over to the bus park and catch the school bus running to downtown oshkosh. There are plenty of places to eat within a short walk of the bus stop. For smaller food there is also the red barn up by the fly market gate. Lots of things for sale to eat in there. Hope this helps

Keith

[OldGunbunny]

A couple of thoughts (others have addressed medical and the bus to Oshkosh).

Catch the tram to the North 40. Ride the bus to the Friar Tuck's stop, walk across the street and there's a big supermarket and Target store available. Lots of fresh foods (and some premade also).

Speak to people (ask a question or make a comment). Almost all of us, upon hearing your accent will want to talk. Meeting pilots from other countries is one of the best things about Airventure. If there's an open space closer to the gate, just pick your tent up and move it.

[Inspector Fenwick]

I must say that when I read the initial post, it really disturbed me. I mean, I thought about it last night watching "Frazier" reruns (I returned from OSH yesterday afternoon). I wonder what we can ALL do to help someone who has come this far and left disappointed? It is not an EAA job as it is the rest of us who are interested in advocating GA (around the world) and in being good hosts to others that visit the US. I have BEEN that guy by himself, whether in Camp Scholler or tied down in my old G Model Bo. I had run out of people to bring to OSH. I was having a grand old time, but I was a veteran of Oshkosh. Nowadays, I am involved in a Type Club (Cessna 195) and we have plenty to do during Airventure. During the past week, I have met two Brits, two Kiwi's, a gazillion Aussies, an El Salvadoran, a Frenchman.....all having the time of their lives. I am advocating the EAA, next year, set up on online "adoption" program for those folks who are coming to Airventure alone and maybe for the first time, maybe even the first time visiting the States. This sort of thing (someone feeling left out) should NOT happen. I cannot speak for Camp Scholler but I always had a great time there. There are plenty of friendly folks in Camp Scholler who, I am quite sure, be willing to have a conversation and learn of aviation in New Zealand. I know I would. Are their "cliques" at Airventure? Absulutely, many private "clubs" exist and have staked out their territory, and we are not welcome within their boundaries. Too bad. They don't know what they are missing by not reaching out to others. Their main function at OSH is to consume "mass quantities". It is America, however, so..........But if you see someone at OSH that appears to be alone, how about including him/her into at least some of your activities. You will be enriched by the experience. Think about it.

[Kiwi ZK-CKE]

Thanks for your feedback everyone. I went to the international tent yesterday, took part in the parade and went to the international visitors dinner (although it was quite a walk!) certainly the Int visitors team do a great job welcoming people and putting them in touch with fellow visitors. The missing link here is putting them in touch with the locals.
i think the idea of adopt a visitor is excellent, and I hope someone takes it up next time. Even if it isn't, perhaps locals wanting to know more about flying overseas could just hang around near the international tent and chat.
I think the key thing about getting the most out of Oshkosh is to have some friends or contacts here before you come. If you are on your own and know no-one, its not fun at all. Americans are very friendly and welcoming - once they know you. I tend to be a bit shy at starting conversations, but once under way it's been OK. There just isn't the opportunity to build those initial friendships.
I would certainly love to volunteer if I came back again, however this time I have very limited time and have had lots I needed to see.
I would certainly NOT recommend Camp Scholler as a place to sample the spirit of Oshkosh (as I was advised) since it is too big and too random. I can understand the logistical reasons for the first come first served policy, but it is very frustrating to get such a remote spot when I booked the day bookings first opened.
Flightline camping looks good however, and having an aircraft there is a good way to get conversation started. Walking distances are also a bit more manageable. My original plan was a ride share from Texas in a Cessna, which would have been great and I would have had a contact to start with. Sadly my ride share pilot was killed in an accident and I had no other ride share offers, so used plan B. I had kinda hoped I would meet some friendly local pilots who would take me for a flight (I'd love to fly the Fisk Arrival) but there's no chance of that in Scholler. The various type clubs seem to be pretty good, but as my aircraft is a one-off, my type owners club would be really small!

Although the show, planes and items on display have been great, I don't know whether I will be tempted back again. It has always been my dream to attend, but my experiences have tempered that somewhat and it's not an experience I would choose to repeat. I certainly wouldn't do it the same way!

[TedK]

I'm with Larry on this.

One additional thought: in naval aviation fledgling aviators are called "Nuggets" because they are raw precious material that hasn't yet been molded. Nuggets need some extra care and attention. In a squadron, it was easy to tell who was a nugget by the newness of their flight suit, not so easy at OSH.
Nugget is not a derogatory term like #NG, it is a statement of being.

Perhaps if there was an identifying feature, like a special color hat or tee shirt that identified the wearer as a OSH Nugget, we could see who are Nuggets and take them under our wing.

[OldGunbunny]

Kiwi,
Please don't let this trip color your view of Airventure. Please do come back. Decide on a plan and use this (and other aviation forums and organizations) to make connections. Most of us would enjoy having you ride along. Look for someone who wants a co-pilot to fly to Airventure. Look at connecting with someone in the Cessna, Mooney or Bonanza type clubs who would offer a seat. You'd get the experience of a formation arrival at Airventure and have a group to camp with during your stay.
If not a member of a group, I think you could find a seat with someone who was going by themselves. I expect you'd get some time at the controls and would get a chance to see a goodly part of the USA/Canada from general aviation altitudes.
We would benefit from your aviation knowledge. I notice you designed and built your own plane. Please tell us something about it.

[I_FLY_LOW]

What about setting up something on this forum, for international visitors to post up, ahead of time of when they'll be there?
If they're doing primitive camping, maybe they could set up a way to share a space with someone that's going to be there early?
I usually find a decent spot (read, not way out by the road) to camp.
I also usually try to get there a few days ahead of the airshow to get set up, go through the museum, etc, before the crowds make it hard to get around.
I'm sure something could be sorted out...

[orvie6]

Adopt a Newbie... I was reading the post by Kiwi ZK-CKE about his ordeal in Camp Schroller.. I have been following the forums most of the summer and saw his great excitement about finally beeing able to attend AirVenture this year. I can understand his disapointment with his "housing accomadations".. On his pre arrival post he was helped in many ways with suggestions on his stay, what to see, etc.. However; it seems that the reality of a crowded camp grounds and unfamiluarity of surroundings has lead to his discomfort..
I am aware of the International Tent and its purpose, however; its use or availability is AFTER one arrives and is not too helpful on setting up camp, etc.. I myself was unable to attend this year. In fact, I have only been to AirVenture 3 times..first time in 1999, second in 2009 and last year, 2011. First two times was alone or with other newbies...Last year I took a newbie with me!! Made it much better for both of us!
I am suggesting that perhaps a New Segment, or group be formed, of volunteers naturally, of actually Adopting a Newbie to the event. Example.. Use Mr. Kiwi ... he is on the forums, asks his question, gets assistance via replies, and then embarks on his trip.. Like he stated.. Commercial Air transportation, and little baggage with him.. Why not have a regular attendee actually make arraigments with him to pick him up at the airport, help him with setting up camp and actually escort him to various places on the grounds?Perhaps in his case, since he was not able to arrive until Tuesday, have someone rent a decent campsite for him..perhaps with other Kiwis? The 'adoption' would not have to last all week, but the first few days would be of great assistance, Im sure.
As most people are saying, AirVenture is not olny about the airplanes, but the PEOPLE... There are several Chapters that always have a regular appearance at Oshkosh...some provied meals, etc... why not one of them opperate the'adoption center'? Naturally, it should be someone who is somewhat local, or at least a regular attendee that is familuar with the operation at AirVenture..
What does everyone think? I do hope that Mr. Kiwi is enjoying his week inspite of his misfortune, and will return again. But can you imagine how he would feel if he knew he had a 'one on one' partner that would take him by the hand, so to speak, and make his visit that much more meaningful?
I hope to be able to attend again next year, and hopefully bring my own Newbie!! Im was thanked repeatedly by my friend last year for helping him enjoy AirVenture in a less stressful way!!! Didnt take much..just a one on one timet hat benefited the both of us..
I would love to be able to Adopt a Newbie. However; I am not sure of just when and IF I will be at AirVenture myself, so I would hate to have a person that is half way around the world depend on my support..but know that there are those that are able to provide this service.. Perhaps limit it to those that are not from the US... not saying that any new attendee could not use assistance, but those that travel half the globe to attend an event such as Oshkosh..think it would be that 'Something Special' that would make there visit that much more enjoyable.
Wayne

[I_FLY_LOW]

It's kind of hard to help out someone after the fact...
He posted up about his trial and tribulations, AFTER he had problems.
He knew for some time, I'm sure, that he was coming there, far in advance.
If they knew he was coming, long ahead of time, perhaps some planning on someone's part could have made his stay more comfortable.
Hence my previous post.
I'm going to do my best to go next year, and if someone needed help, I'd surely do what I could to help, but mind reading is not one of my strong points.
If you don't open your mouth and say something to someone, while you're there, then how can anyone help?

[orvie6]

I am aware of the delay in communication in this particular instance...I was suggesting that perhaps a group of volunteers be available to assist in a long distance visitors arrival at Osh.. I'm sure that in the question/answer post prior to his arrival, that this gentleman could not see the placing of his camp or the inconvience it may have caused.. I guess I'm just trying to figure out if it is possible to forsee some of these problems in the future and have a person make personal contact with the new visitor and make arraingments to help his/her arrival less forboding.. Maybe I am off base here, but surely those that are regular attendees would be able to contact a prospective visitor from afar, and offer to personally assist them if desired.. I am aware that for the most part, the people that attend AirVenture are of like mind and interest, and sometimes take for granted that all will work well for all those attending.. I Fly Low, Like you just noted in your post, perhaps there needs to be a forum for next years AirVenture to list those that may need a helping hand with coming for the first time.. Like I have said...this assistance may not be for the entire time the visitor is here..but the first day or so , I'm sure it would be appreciated.. Local individuals offer there homes for those attending, as well as the community collage dorms...so why not have a group of people to be an Adoptive Guide to help those coming from half way around the world? If I knew for sure I would be coming next year, and on what dates...I would bring extra camping gear and personally invite a foreign visitor to came with us and assist in their getting settled in and off to a good start!!... Ok, it was just an idea.. Wayne

[Hal Bryan]

I think the "adoption" idea has a lot of merit, and l'll definitely be bringing it up in our upcoming debriefs, formal and otherwise.

[Kiwi ZK-CKE]

Thanks for the positive follow up guys, I'm glad that sharing my experience will help others in the future. Although disappointed with the camping, overall I have enjoyed myself- its a great event.
I've even done a bit for EAA by taking part in the oral history project at the museum... That was a lot of fun! I also visited the seaplane base and decided that that has to be the best camping spot - I'll just have to organise a seaplane for my next visit!

[N546RV]

To be honest, this doesn't sound too far off my Scholler experience last year. My partner and I drove up, and don't get me wrong, we had a great time. It was our first visit to OSH, and there was never any question as to whether we were coming back. But we did decide the next trip would be a flying trip, so this year we lived in the North 40 for a week.

The issue of very little in the way of dining options is familiar to us. Luckily, we drove up, and thus were able to easily leave the grounds and get food without either hiking half a mile or waiting for a bus. This is starkly contrasted by the North 40, where we were an easy five-minute walk from the North 40 Cafe. (which, I must say, has pretty darn good food)

In fairness, I can't pretend to have a solution for this. Scholler is a big place, and I don't see any way to have dining options that are convenient for all or even most of the occupants. And while the North 40 Cafe was very close to our spot, we were also somewhat lucky there. Some parts of the North 40 are nowhere near as well-located. Still, there's a vast difference in convenience between setting up on Saturday afternoon in the North 40 vs. Scholler. Renting a plane for the trip up - because we don't own one, at least not until that magical day when the RV-8 gets finished - is not cheap at all, but I don't see myself coming to OSH any other way in the future if I can help it.

[mcmurphy]

Maybe what we need is some kind of social center smack dab in the middle of Camp Scholler.

[wltrmtty]

The first come first served rule is a tough one. Yes, locals do come and stake out a campsite early - I staked mine out the Wednesday before the convention began. But, I paid the nightly camping fee from that day to the end of the convention. I have a season pass to Road America, Elkhart Lake, WI. This isn't as big a venue as AirVenture, but they have reserved campsites in one camping area and general first come first serve in the rest of the track. The reserved are also first come first serve with reservations taken starting the beginning of January with previous year's campers having precedence. So, you have so much time to re-reserve the previous year's spot after which it goes up to the general public - season ticket holders having precedence over the general public.

I suppose I could find fault with that system, too. What's fair? If EAA did it the Road America way, I guarantee camping spots would be passed down through families like Green Bay Packer season tickets. I think the way they're doing it is the best compromise. IMHO

[FlyingRon]

It's not just locals. I know a number of people who fly in early, mark out camp sites and leave. You can also see if you can find a relatively local buddy to do so for you. I've marked out (and paid for) airplane campsites for friends.

[turbopilot]

It's not just locals. I know a number of people who fly in early, mark out camp sites and leave. You can also see if you can find a relatively local buddy to do so for you. I've marked out (and paid for) airplane campsites for friends.

Yes, a member who does not live locally could ask a "buddy" to pay for and stake out a campsite. Of course that is against the rules. There should be a way for a member to reserve (and pay) for a campsite early on a "first paid, first served" basis just like the electrical and water camp sites. As I understand the "first paid, first served" electrical and water camp sites, you only need to call and give them a credit card to secure a site. "First paid, first served" is a free market solution to the problem. If you want a good campsite and are willing to pay extra to get it, you should be able to get it without traveling to Oshkosh 30 days early or breaking the rules.

This would be very easy to implement and supply additional revenue to AirVenture. I was parked right next to a "first paid, first served" electrical and water camp area. Each campsite had a little sign in front like "L30". Just do the same thing for a site without services. The additional revenue obtained by folks booking early without traveling to Oshkosh would more than cover the costs of post a sign and taking a reservation. ReserveAmerica.com (http://www.reserveamerica.com) has a turn key automated web based service to do the whole job of booking and taking money. All EAA has to do is post some signs.

For the regular campsites, the rule is pretty clear. That makes it pretty tough for a member living in New Zealand or California to get a spot early and still follow the rules.

"An EAA member must be present to obtain camping credential and campsite;"

[FlyingRon]

If it's against the rules, it is the most disregarded rule I've ever seen at Oshkosh. You can't buy camping credentials without a EAA number (which they'll be happy to look up for you on the computer if you don't have your card or committed it to memory). In the cases I've bought spaces, both the agent (me) and the person camping have EAA memberships. I put it under their name and EAA number on the thing and either use cash/check or their credit card to the refund for the unused days goes to them not me.

[turbopilot]

If it's against the rules, it is the most disregarded rule I've ever seen at Oshkosh.

I guess. As a group I have been really impressed with the caliber of EAA members. They always impressed me as an orderly group who follow the rules. In this case I guess I was wrong.

All the more reason to change the game.

If you are listening EAA give us reason why regular camping spots cannot be offered next year on a "First paid, first served" basis and remove the requirement to be present in Oshkosh to reserve a camping spot.

[Jim Hann]

If you are listening EAA give us reason why regular camping spots cannot be offered next year on a "First paid, first served" basis and remove the requirement to be present in Oshkosh to reserve a camping spot.
I think I can tell you why this won't happen. EAA/volunteer manpower or lack thereof. If you are up there early to get a spot you stake it out yourself. They don't have people who can go select and mark a site.

Find or make a friend in the area that can set one up for you, I have several friends from St. Louis who do exactly that!

[turbopilot]

They don't have people who can go select and mark a site.



Jim, it is all ready happening with the "first pay, first serve" electrical and water camping sites. If you go through that area each site is clearly marked. No people are needed to volunteer for this activity. You pay for these sites before AirVenture then just drive to your designated site when you arrive. The only task required is that over the next year some number of "first pay, first serve" without electricity and water sites need to be labeled, then begin automated registration and fee collection with ReserveAmerica.com. If there is some other cost that needs to be covered for "first pay, first serve" then just charge more for a reserved spot than is charged for general camping.

Anyway the little secret is out. EAA has rules that you cannot reserve a site unless you are physically present at AirVenture. The rules are flagrantly violated and everyone is winking. Meanwhile the member who follows the rules and arrives sometime during the show must park miles way by Highway 41.

[Jim Hann]

Anyway the little secret is out. EAA has rules that you cannot reserve a site unless you are physically present at AirVenture. The rules are flagrantly violated and everyone is winking. Meanwhile the member who follows the rules and arrives sometime during the show must park miles way by Highway 41.
Interesting because I have heard staffers talking about staking sites for friends who don't live locally. Just has to be somebody with an EAA number. BTW, you can also have more than one site, guess how I know...

[FlyingRon]

I guess. As a group I have been really impressed with the caliber of EAA members. They always impressed me as an orderly group who follow the rules. In this case I guess I was wrong.

All the more reason to change the game.

If you are listening EAA give us reason why regular camping spots cannot be offered next year on a "First paid, first served" basis and remove the requirement to be present in Oshkosh to reserve a camping spot.

Before you go around throwing out personal insults, tell me what rule you think it is that I have so brazenly violated. There's nothing in the camping information and guidelines nor in the camp guide that says outright that it's illegal to pay for and mark out spaces for others. The only rule anybody has quoted was that it is required that one person in the group be an EAA member. In the case I was referring to not only am I but also the person whose site I set up, an EAA Member.

[turbopilot]

Before you go around throwing out personal insults, tell me what rule you think it is that I have so brazenly violated. There's nothing in the camping information and guidelines nor in the camp guide that says outright that it's illegal to pay for and mark out spaces for others. The only rule anybody has quoted was that it is required that one person in the group be an EAA member. In the case I was referring to not only am I but also the person whose site I set up, an EAA Member.

Not throwing around personal insults. I direct you to the AirVenture Where to Stay (http://www.airventure.org/planning/where_to_stay.html#camp) page.


An EAA member must be present to obtain camping credential and campsite;

I did call EAA before AirVenture started to confirm the rule. I did have friends on site early, but I decided to follow the rule.

[Jeff Point]

CAMPER & RV RENTAL
An EAA member must be present to obtain camping credential and campsite; RV vendors are not permitted on-site without the EAA member present. RV vendors may not purchase camping credential on an EAA member's behalf. Camping credentials are non-transferrable.
View a listing (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rv+rental+oshkosh,+wi&hl=en&sll=44.900771,-89.56949&sspn=13.460082,33.815918&t=h&hq=rv+rental&hnear=Oshkosh,+Winnebago,+Wisconsin&z=9) of camper and RV rental services in the area


Since you've used this quote out of context (intentionally or not) twice in this thread, here is the complete paragraph that the quote is taken from. It deals with rental RVs being delivered to Camp Scholler, and has nothing to do with members staking out campsites for themselves or others. The rule that you refer to does not exist, at least not in the context that you imply that it does. It clearly states several times that sites are "first come, first served." The lone exception are the improved (water and electric sites) which can be reserved on a "first paid, first served" basis.

[turbopilot]

CAMPER & RV RENTAL
An EAA member must be present to obtain camping credential and campsite; RV vendors are not permitted on-site without the EAA member present. RV vendors may not purchase camping credential on an EAA member's behalf. Camping credentials are non-transferrable.
View a listing (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=rv+rental+oshkosh,+wi&hl=en&sll=44.900771,-89.56949&sspn=13.460082,33.815918&t=h&hq=rv+rental&hnear=Oshkosh,+Winnebago,+Wisconsin&z=9) of camper and RV rental services in the area


Since you've used this quote out of context (intentionally or not) twice in this thread, here is the complete paragraph that the quote is taken from. It deals with rental RVs being delivered to Camp Scholler, and has nothing to do with members staking out campsites for themselves or others. The rule that you refer to does not exist, at least not in the context that you imply that it does. It clearly states several times that sites are "first come, first served." The lone exception are the improved (water and electric sites) which can be reserved on a "first paid, first served" basis.

I was confused by that as well. That is why I called AirVenture in June for the clarification. The member present rule was said to apply. Now maybe the person I talked to had the facts wrong. I was not calling to enquire about placing an RV on a site.

I am specifically referring to one EAA member (or non member) using another EAA member's credentials to reserve a camping site when that member was not present at AirVenture.

I apologize if I got bad information, but that is what I was told.

[FlyingRon]

Not throwing around personal insults. I direct you to the AirVenture Where to Stay (http://www.airventure.org/planning/where_to_stay.html#camp) page.



I did call EAA before AirVenture started to confirm the rule. I did have friends on site early, but I decided to follow the rule.

An EAA member was present. As I pointed out before both the person buying the credentials and the person actually using them were both EAA members.

[glefave]

There is no doubt that Camp Scholler can be miserable for the first timer. It took me quite a few years to learn the ropes. The locals and old timers have a decided advantage. A first timer like the OP will spend most of his/her time just wlking around trying to figure out the lay of the land. Having said that, I've found that everyone at Oshkosh has a story. Whether they are camping at the North 40, Camp Scholler, a motel in FonduLac, or in Vintage. everyone knows the best way to experience Oshkosh. Perhaps there could be an "advice for the first timer" column in the magazine, with short interviews of the "what one bit of advice would you give a newcomer" variety.

We all want new comers to have as great an experience as we have at the convention. Hopefully th OP will come back and give us another chance.