PRESIDENT and EAA QUIZ

[Bill Greenwood]

Which President has the most EAA like spirit? And I don't mean an EAA president or official.
Three rules for this question:
1. He must be or have been President.
2. Ignore his politics, you may love or hate his policies or actions, but that is not part of the question.
3. It is only how he fits the EAA spirit.


Now, who are the likely ones?
Bush, Sr. comes to mind, was a pilot, flew combat in WWII, and has made sport parachute jumps. But maybe the question is not that easy.

How about Sen. Kerry, he's a pilot and a decorated combat vet? Same for Sen. McCain. But see no.1 rule.
How about Clinton, he is not a pilot, but used a C180/185 to campaign in Arkansas, I know the guy who flew him, but again, maybe not that easy?

[Adam Smith]

JFK's "we choose to go to the moon" speech is a decent encapsulation of the EAA spirit. He was a womanizer too.

(BTW John Kerry has a low EAA number issued in the late 60s.)

[Joe LaMantia]

Bill,

This is a fun topic and I'm guessing there is no right or wrong answer. Here's a few thoughts/questions, do we only consider Presidents elected after the Wright Bros. Flight or can we include lighter then air guys like Abe Lincoln? Assuming we're talking about post Wright Bros Presidents, then I'd suggest FDR. He expanded pilot training a few years b/4 WWII and held office during the largest expansion of military aviation in our history. The number of pilots trained during that period fueled the growth of Comerical, Military, and even General aviation for years to come, the numbers speak for themselves, FDR grew aviation!

Now if we're only talking about Presidents who were pilots then the Bush boys have it hands down. But then again "W" was pro user fee. As for guys who ran and lost, Sen McCain has had several "fights" with AOPA over user fees so he isn't on our side regarding that issue. I would replace McCain with Sen. Imhoff who is a pilot and supports EAA and AOPA, he has attended AirVenture more then once.

I'm guessing there won't be any votes for Garfield or Hayes!


Joe
;)

[Bill Greenwood]

Joe, see rule no. 1, he has to have been President, so no for McCain or Imhoff.
I didn't think about lighter than air flights, but guess that can be in the EAA spirit also.
And yes, in my mind there is one real answer, although it may not be popular.
You make a good case for FDR, his First Lady came down to their base in Alabama and insisted that one of the Negro (yes that is the word in use then, long before Black or African American) pilots take her up for a flight. Whatever prejudice the white officer had, he wasn't going to say no to the First Lady, not this one, and she made her point.

As I said, Bush, Sr. is close,but right now he is still not quite who I had in mind.

[Bill Greenwood]

Adam, I would have never thought of JFK,but you make a good point. You guys are smart. But unlike EAA spirit, JFK did not fly or ride on the space flight or build the rocket in the White House basement. So no JFK

As for "womanizer", well I have heard that he had an eye for a good fuselage, and the curve of a wing, just like most EAA members.

All joking aside, let's give JFK his due. He had two major crisisees when was in command and his coolness and judgement saved his men the first time with the wreck of PT-109 and 2nd time he saved our nation when we were at the brink of nuclear war.

[Jeff Boatright]

Adam, I would have never thought of JFK,but you make a good point. You guys are smart. But unlike EAA spirit, JFK did not fly or ride on the space flight or build the rocket in the White House basement. So no JFK
...

Well, if it's just being a pilot that qualifies you for "the right answer," possibly it's Ike? He was a pilot, and though in the military, was not an official military pilot, so I guess he was a private pilot. Not sure if that alone qualifies him for "spirit of EAA" winner.

On "spirit" alone, I'd say Washington or Jefferson - both of whom believed deeply in self-reliance and in doing the job right the first time.

[Tom Charpentier]

Thomas J. Whitmore?

[RV8505]

One things for sure, It isn't the current administration! They have been doing everything in their power to destroy it.

[Zack Baughman]

Tom Charpentier with the win. :rollseyes:

[Bill Greenwood]

I had to look up who Whitmore was, never saw the movie. Good try, but no cegar.
This President is a real person.

HINT, he flies and ultralight, for real.

And Jeff, I didn't know Ike was a pilot. I do recall him being flown over the invasion beaches at Normandy in a Piper Cub to see how progress was going. That took some guts. As for guts, the old man in Whitehall did not lack any either. He wanted to go on one of the invasion ships, but that was nixed and wisely so, by Ike and the others in charge.

Think of the responsibility of the man flying that Cub with Ike in the front.

Anyway, it is not Ike, but let's move him near the top. Not only did he use the Cub, an EAA type plane, but he sure knew the value of what we now call warbirds, he especially singled out the C-47.

[Joe LaMantia]

Bill,

Is this a trick question? We are all assuming by President you mean of the United States, but if you mean President of EAA then our founder has EAA in his blood!

Joe:cool:

[Bill Greenwood]

No, Joe, it is not Paul or Tom. I said in my first post it was not the EAA pres or officials.

But you are getting warmer, and there is a trick to the question.

I'll put the answer on tonight if no one gets if first.

First correct answer gets a free ride on my new Embrarer.
It is out at our airport and on display. In airline use it holds 120 people, must be pretty tight.
But in corporate setup only 18 so plenty of room.

Price is $48 million, which I don't quite have now, but who knows, we have to have dreams.

[RV8505]

It could be port side president LBJ. He and Lady Bird were real cozy with Bell Helicopter and Lady Bird Johnson was a major stock owner in Bell. When LBJ reversed Kennedy's decision to pull out of Vietnam, Bell sold allot of helicopters during the conflict. Of course during the war the development of helicopters and jet aircraft increased exponentially as did the sales.

[Hal Bryan]

I'm guessing Bill's thinking of Jimmy Carter - not a pilot, but, given his work with Habitat for Humanity, he's literally a "homebuilder." :)

[RV8505]

U.S. airline industryReally!? He set the airlines up to beat each other up for the next 30 some years and nearly ruined the airline industry. Airline Deregulation Act (http://eaaforums.org/wiki/Airline_Deregulation_Act) (Pub.L. 95–504 (http://www.law.cornell.edu/jureeka/index.php?doc=USPubLaws&cong=95&no=504)) was signed into law by President Carter on October 24, 1978. The main purpose of the act was to remove government control (http://eaaforums.org/wiki/Airline_deregulation) over fares, routes and market entry (of new airlines) from commercial aviation (http://eaaforums.org/wiki/Commercial_aviation). The Civil Aeronautics Board (http://eaaforums.org/wiki/Civil_Aeronautics_Board)'s powers of regulation were to be phased out, eventually allowing market forces to determine routes and fares. The Act did not remove or diminish the FAA's regulatory powers over all aspects of airline safety.

Not to mention And who can forget Operation Eagle Claw disaster in the desert. It was considered attributed to the administration due to the fact many of the military aviation units were only 25% mission ready due to funding issues.

[Hal Bryan]

You might want to reread my post...

[RV8505]

I found it a amusing play on words however Mr. Carter didn't do anything to promote the experimenter homebuilder spirit of aviation. I made no mistake.

[Hal Bryan]

Okay - your response to what was just a bad pun and nothing more on my part made it look to me like you misunderstood, that's all.

Anyway, my answer to your question "Really?!" is "Nope - just kidding."

[Bill Greenwood]

RV 8505
As I said in my first post, ignore politics.
Obviously you don't like Democrats, but the politics, whether pro or con have nothing to do with this question.

No Hal, your answer is very clever re "homebuilder" but that's not it.

[Bill Greenwood]

Last big clue, and Joe got close.

I said President, past or current, and everyone wrongly assumed I meant U S Pres.

So who else flies an ultra light?

[RV8505]

RV 8505
As I said in my first post, ignore politics.
Obviously you don't like Democrats, but the politics, whether pro or con have nothing to do with this question.

No Hal, your answer is very clever re "homebuilder" but that's not it.

Not true, I don't like Democrats! I found it a amusing play on words however Mr. Carter didn't do anything to promote the experimenter homebuilder spirit of aviation. He builds uninspiring spec houses that are basically the same. I made no mistake. I have to vote for Kennedy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g25G1M4EXrQ. "We do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard" No President before or after has promoted aviation like John Kennedy. He was also was a Democrat. I had the pleasure of knowing John John. Great Guy. He also had the sprit of aviation..

[Janet Davidson]

Oh no please don't tell me you're thinking of Putin, Bill? :eek:

[Bill Greenwood]

Give that Lady a ceegar!

Yes, Janet, you either know your Presidents or maybe you saw the same newspaper I did about May?

There was Vladamir Putin, for those who don't know, is Pres. of Russia, flying an ultralight and solo.
Now remember I said ignore his politics. I don't know that much about Putin, we used to consider Russia as The Great Satan. And I don't know if they still are that bad or maybe just half bad. But no matter.

An ultralight is certainly right in there in the spirit of EAA, flying something unusual and flying just for fun.
I thought is was pretty cool to see a head of state out there doing that, and I can't think of any other like that.
I think the photo is genuine. not photoshop, though you never know.

[vaflier]

Give that Lady a ceegar!

Yes, Janet, you either know your Presidents or maybe you saw the same newspaper I did about May?

There was Valerie Putin, for those who don't know, is Pres. of Russia, flying an ultralight and solo.
Now remember I said ignore his politics. I don't know that much about Putin, we used to consider Russia as The Great Satan. And I don't know if they still are that bad or maybe just half bad. But no matter.

An ultralight is certainly right in there in the spirit of EAA, flying something unusual and flying just for fun.
I thought is was pretty cool to see a head of state out there doing that, and I can't think of any other like that.
I think the photo is genuine. not photoshop, though you never know.


Bill, I am afraid I cannot agree that Putin represents the true spirit of EAA. EAA is more than just flying, it is an attitude of sharing the joys of aviation and helping others in many ways. It is more than aviation, it is a way of life that leads us to share many things and be kinder and more helpful to others. I do not think Putin represents many of those things. He does share many things with others, pain and suffering. Clearly not what EAA is about. The fact that he flies an ultralight qualifies him for nothing more than to fly an ultralight. He , in my opinion in no way represents the spirit of EAA. He may however qualify for petty tyrant of the year.

[Bill Greenwood]

Vaflier, I clearly stated the politics was not criteria in this question. If he is the worst tyrant in history has no bearing on the flying part of my question. But I figured I might get a response like yours, and you are of course entitileld to your opinion and trying to revise the standards on which I judged it.

Mostly I was trying to catch people's eye for something which you don't see often and that is the head of state of a major country flying his own airplane, not just riding in the back of a military or airliner. Can you recall any of our recent Presidents doing that?
I am not Putin's press agent or p r man, not trying to claim that he is kind or good or sharing or any of those other things. I think that would be Mother Teresa, or maybe Santa Claus.
And if you go back and read my words exactly, I did not write "true spirit of EAA", rather I wrote EAA like spirit; of which a major part is flying a recreational type airplane just for the fun of it.

The core of EAA is homebuilts and it broadens to include Ultralights. They even have their own airstrip at Oshkosh, so they are an important part, though less so than in the past. So on the flying part I think this is like the spirit of EAA.

[MNWORD]

King Hussein of Jordan was a pilot of Fighters, Tristars,707, and flew Pitts, so maybe he had the true spirit of EAA.......

[Joe LaMantia]

Bill,

You are a devious devil! Nice job and it did open up an interesting discussion. I think there may be a few "heads of state" who fly, after all there are over 100 countries in the UN. Here in the USA we don't get a lot of news about small countries unless there is some disaster or they get involved in something some US politician thinks is against our "national interest". Putin is first and foremost a politician who was elected to office in a system we in the US don't quite understand, it's certainly not close to ours. Anyway, I remember seeing several photos of him riding a horse, and a elephant and showing off his muscles without a shirt, not unlike our politicians wearing silly hats or kissing babies. Now for those of you who will jump on me for ignoring his former role as head of the KGB, I'm not. He didn't get that job without knowing how to play "politics" inside the former regime. That was a big and powerful job in the old USSR, most people who seek big jobs in govt. have big egos, it's a common trait for politicians.

I enjoyed the Jimmy Carter discussion, but one response indicated that the home building program he started was aimed at another expansion program consuming tax payer $. I was a involved in that program back in the early 90's and we restored several old houses in the "inner city" of Milwaukee. Our group helped support a church group that was short handed in it's effort to complete the houses so we jumped in to help. That group was called Elfun, which is a GE management team doing community service. President Carters' initial program was all about community involvement, but like a lot of ideas got hijacked by the D.C. lobby industry. Once again, the Financial Services Industry along with a good bit of the housing industry wanted a piece of the "action". It seems as though every time a group of citizens tries to do something useful somebody finds a way to screw it up with govt funds and regs.

Joe
:cool:

[jester]

Hey Bill,
Yeah I'm not sure I can agree that Putin represents the spirit of EAA.
There are many other countries' presidents that flew airplanes. I would put President George Bush way above Putin.
My first choice would be Teddy Roosevelt, who incidently was president when the Wright Bros. made their historic flight.
Teddy pushed thru completion of the Panama Canal, uniting the Pacific and Atlantic coasts of North America.
He signed into law the National Monument Act preserving public access to some great areas of the US.
Last but not least, he won the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Bill Greenwood]

Jester, you said the many other countries Presidents flew airplanes, but you don't give any examples.
Putin flew our, that is, EAA type of fun plane. I don't know what if anything else he flew, I only saw the one photo. I also read he scuba dives and was supposed to have found some relics on the sea floor, and it was later admitted that they were planted there by an aid for him to "discover".

Re the Bush guys:
The reason I didn't pick them is because their flying is in the military, not for recreation. I would probably put the Sr. Bush as runnerup in the quiz because not only respect for his combat flying, but I once read that in one of his campaigns he was offered a Stearman flight in Louisianna and he took it and made the landing, while the secret service was in apoplexy.Also he had a TBM, belonging to an EAA member in his inauguration parade, and he made 3 sport parachute jumps. But, still parachuting is not as primary part of EAA like ultralight flying is.
As for Bush jr., I went to the same high school with him in Houston. Don't know him personally,but have several mutual friends. As for as I know, his flying was just military jets, no EAA type for fun. And wasn't his administration the one to start the demand for user fees for gen aviation?
By the way, I wouldn't follow him to the bathroom if I had the burrito special for lunch, but that is another matter.

Teddy Roosevelt, as for as I know, did nothing in a recreational flying mode. You don't get any credit for ditch digging on this quiz,even if if is a huge ditch or preserving parks.
I never knew he won the Noble Peach Prize. And I am surprised because I was given and have read THE IMPERIAL CRUISE by Tom Bradley, son of one of the Iwo Jima soldiers. It is awful to read of what the people directly under TR did in the Phillipines, to the natives. Waterboarding didn't begin with Bush/Cheney, and I, like most Americans had no idea of this dark history.There is a picture in the book from Life magazine, May 22, 1902 of U S soldiers tortuing a prisoner. They called it "water cure" and once before Congress Sec. Taft admitted "All these things are true". The official line was that all the murders and torture were not policy and "only done by a few low level soldiers". T R called Phillipinos "barbarians, a wild and ignorant people", among other things, and led the idea that they were not deserving of any fair treatment like whites were. Shades of Custer all over again.If you have an open mind you might want to read this well written and interesting book, but frankly you'd better have a strong stomach also.

[Jeff Boatright]

I think you meant "TR did in the Phillipines," not "FDR did in the Phillipines."

TR did take a flight in one of the Wright Flyers. It was filmed. After landing, TR is seen on film to be jabbering away, but the follow-on text box just says "Bully!".

A friend of mine tells me that a lip reader looking closely at the film says that what TR said, among other things, was "Damned drafty and uncomfortable!"

Film can be seen at:

http://www.airspacemag.com/multimedia/videos/Teddy-Roosevelt-Goes-Flying.html#ooid=c3NWdxOs65HbEGvhoOkF6eBRiXOCwZBh

[BeagleOne]

It's Vladimir Putin, not Valerie. Or Valeri, which would be the Western transliteration of the Cyrillic.

[Joe LaMantia]

Bill,

Has Vladimir flown his ultralight more then a few times for the photo ops? Does he actually own it and fly it on a regular basis? If so, then OK I'll agree that is in-line with the EAA spirit, if not then Vaflier is right. He is just another politician doing stunts to impress the voters. I still like the tack you took in setting up this discussion, it's good exercise for the brain!

Joe
:cool:

[Bill Greenwood]

Joe, thanks, but I probably can't take much credit for being that clever. And I don't know anything more about Putin's pilot background, I just saw that one photo, for all we know maybe they confiscated it from some poor guy that built the plane.

But in the photo, and it is pretty clear one, not a Gustav Whitehead one, Putin is flying it solo. And I thought that was pretty cool and especially since many foreign countries don't promote or they even restrict private flying. Maybe Janet or someone can come up with the photo, seems like it was in May or around there.
I didn't even think about his KGB past, but hey Bush, Sr. might have some CIA skeletons laying around,too.It is an interesting study in human nature that even though I clearly stated the politics was not a criteria and you might not like the guys policies, most folks have a hard time getting past that and want to count bad deeds against him or good deeds for someone else.

If we asked which heads of state were painters, we'd have to include not only good guys like Churchill, but also Hitler. If I had the stomach to do it, which I don't, we could make it a play on words, so Hitler would come out the winner,(something like who was the most) since he was not only an artist, but a house painter if I recall right. I don't think either were great artist, but I'd love to have a Winston painting. I don't think I could put a Hitler one on my wall, but it should be in some museum. We know Churchill was a great man and a real character, and a person I really admire, who like JFK was at his best when it counted most. But is it a real shame that Hitler could not have used his influence for good, not evil. Before he became nuts, he obviously had some leadership and charisma abilities. He came to power because Germany had was destitute and he filled a vacuum. What if he could have used this to unite and lead his people in the right way. There is some evidence that his antisemitism was more of a tactic than a deep feeling at first anyway. That would be a little like George Wallace who was not racist until he lost his first campaign.

We need to study and learn as much as we can about human nature and leaders, etc. What made Hitler sink into depravity, and JFK rise to his coolest and wisest in a crisis when those around him like Lemay lost judgement? Was it better parents, teachers. the society, or was it that JFK was rich enough not to need to worry, while Hitler was poor enough to be jealous of others.Our defense spending is more than the next 5 countries, and we still have wars and even smaller ones cost thousands of lives and $Billions/Trillions. Maybe we can't buy a diplomat or a psyscholanylyst like we can a new weapon, but we need to do the best we can in that realm.

A George Bush sr. story that I like is when he was in Louisiana on a campaign trip, and there was a Stearman. The owner offered a flight and secret service of course said no, Bush went anyway. As they came in to land, the pilot had both hands in the air, showing that Bush was doing all the flying. I like folks that don't fit a rigid mold.

[Joe LaMantia]

Well said Bill!,

Churchill and Hitler are very good studies in human nature and despite all the evil committed under Hitler he did convince millions of people in Germany and throughout Europe to join forces with his government and aid in the mess that was WWII. We in the USA could stand to review our own policies regarding various "enemies" and the negative outcomes that come when we make quick decisions based on wishful thinking regarding military force, but that is a whole other topic not suitable for this forum.

Joe
:cool:

[Bill Greenwood]

We had some fun with the topic about him flying the ultralight, even if some people took it too seriously and wanted to turn the question into something much more important than a quick interest item.
Now on the news is a photo of Vladamir Putin driving or sailing or manning or whatever the term is, in a mini submarine.
He does seem to get around, and make a lot of photo ops, could be the real villain in the next Bond movie.
I am NOT going to have a quiz of Who the most Coustea like President is.

[Floatsflyer]

Yup, saw that. His latest macho stunt, Putin takes a dive and goes deep in a 2 man submersible in the Gulf of Finland to look at the wreck of a 19th century frigate. All these fun activities he does must be a whole lot more fun than governing a nation of 145 million people.