A more light hearted topic...removal of the third class medical...

[David Pavlich]

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I thought with all the angst about the FAA and Air Venture, a light hearted topic would be nice.

Hoping against hope that the FAA does grant the restricted version of the Private Certificate, think of what it would do for the used market, specifically the Archers, Warriors, 172s, Cherokees, etc, etc? There is a pile of really nice used airplanes at some very attractive prices that would be just about perfect for those that would fit into the newly formed group of pilots.

However, it would be a bit of a shocker for the S-LSA industry. Anyway, I thought it would make a nice topic to chew on.

David

[Frank Giger]

Hmmm, I don't think it will do much for prices or sales for either "normal" certified aircraft (C172, etc.) or impact the LSA market, either.

There's just not enough intersection between those markets.

The pilots I know that have foregone the medical to fly under SP rules already were flying aircraft that fit the bill - Champs, Cubs, Experimentals, etc. Or had flown them in the past and were more than eager to go back down memory lane and buy one.

Prices might drop a bit for LSA compliant aircraft, but not much. And used non-LSA aircraft are already overpriced for the market.

For new aircraft, it's a whole different demographic going for each type. The CTLS, for example, is a hot little coupe that looks very modern and up to date. People shopping for a Miata or a Fiat aren't really interested in the full sized Lexus or Cadillac of the C172.

The reality of just who owns the bulk of all GA aircraft and their age foretells a huge number of aircraft being discounted to estate sale prices and even scrapped just to avoid future storage fees in the next 20 years.

[Bill]

....The reality of just who owns the bulk of all GA aircraft and their age foretells a huge number of aircraft being discounted to estate sale prices and even scrapped just to avoid future storage fees in the next 20 years.

To say nothing of the cost of upgrading avionics to ADS-B, WAAS-capable GPS, and an EFIS that will interface to all of that. Oh yes, and a new 406-MHz ELT. These factors will reduce the attractiveness of many older aircraft to owners and buyers leading to airplanes ending up on the scrapheap.

[David Pavlich]

Shows ya' what I know.

David

[Frank Giger]

Aw, I know I put a turd in your punchbowl, but it's not a subject that's light hearted to a lot of us.

We should start a thread about words and things that should never be associated with aircraft or aviation, like Fixer-upper or ​minor delay.

[Flyfalcons]

The buyer's market would increase for planes that are not LSA-compliant, but would fit within the new sans-medical guidelines. This would serve to increase their value and prices. Saying "I know some guys and they aren't interested in a 172" is nice, but not scientific nor a large enough sample to matter. Additionally, as there is no requirement for any aircraft to equip itself with a WAAS GPS or EFIS, I'm not sure where Bill is getting his information on keeping aircraft legal and airworthy.

Cost of used 172 + ADS-B Out < Cost of new CTLS

Capability of used 172 > New CTLS

[Bill]

.... Additionally, as there is no requirement for any aircraft to equip itself with a WAAS GPS or EFIS, I'm not sure where Bill is getting his information on keeping aircraft legal and airworthy.


"With ADS-B, each aircraft needs an approved ADS-B position source to calculate its precise position using highly accurate WAAS/SBAS GPS data." according to Garmin. And you must have this starting in 2020.

[David Pavlich]

Aw, I know I put a turd in your punchbowl, but it's not a subject that's light hearted to a lot of us.

We should start a thread about words and things that should never be associated with aircraft or aviation, like Fixer-upper or ​minor delay.

No problem at all! I'm looking at this from a non-pilot viewpoint. It just seemed to me that because the restricted Private allows 180HP and a 4 seat layout, it would be a logical step that with that new certification, planes that are heavier and can handle turbulence, crosswinds and a bit more conducive to cross country antics would be more attractive than the lighter S-LSAs.

I guess I should have come up with a better title and left the sarcasm behind. I agree that it's not a light hearted subject, but in light of the turmoil with the AirVenture and the FAA, well, anyway, it didn't work. :-)

David

[Flyfalcons]

"With ADS-B, each aircraft needs an approved ADS-B position source to calculate its precise position using highly accurate WAAS/SBAS GPS data." according to Garmin. And you must have this starting in 2020.

There are going to be ADS-B boxes with that built right in. No one is going to have to buy a G750 or Chelton EFIS to continue flying their plane. Regardless, the requirement applies to all aircraft, and everyone will be paying whether it's installed in an LSA or a cabin class twin. So the idea that it will affect used four-seaters more than LSA aircraft is not accurate.

[David Pavlich]

I read a review about one of the newer S-LSAs that will be equipped with ADS-B in/out from the factory. However, I don't remember which one. :confused: Of course, that means that you're buying a brand new plane. Chaching!

David

[Flyfalcons]

Yes, and the added cost of ADS-B surely influences its selling price. Like I said, we're all going to feel the pain.

[Frank Giger]

Except for us that never go near controlled airspace....we're not going to have to buy/install ADS-B.

[Flyfalcons]

Keep in mind that Class E is considered controlled airspace.

[Bill]

Except for us that never go near controlled airspace....we're not going to have to buy/install ADS-B.

Here in Arizona, you have a hard time avoiding controlled airspace since Phoenix's controlled airspace occupies the entire central part of the state. The rest of the state is populated with either restricted airspace (up to 80,000 ft in some cases), Alert Areas or Special Air Traffic Rules for Luke AFB, or MOAs. Good luck going anywhere without entering controlled airspace. I'd sell my airplane if I had to stay out of controlled airspace.

[MEdwards]

The term controlled airspace is too generic anymore and means too many different things to different people.

Here more precisely is where the FAA says ADS-B Out will be required in 2020:

1. In Class A, B, and C airspace.
2. In Class E airspace within the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface.
3. In Class E airspace at and above 3,000 feet MSL over the Gulf of Mexico from the coastline of the United States out to 12 nautical miles.
4. Around those airports identified in 14 CFR part 91, Appendix D. [This is the 30 NM ring known as the "Mode C veil around many large airports.]

It's basically anywhere a transponder is required now. My kind of flying cannot avoid these areas, but some people can.

[Frank Giger]

One of the many reasons I love living in the Adventure State. Here in Alabama we have just six towers, and four are nearly co-located in Huntsville and Montgomery, with one on the closure list (Tuscaloosa).

So I can puddle jump all over the state and never have to talk to an ATC.

Of course one has to be in the low-and-slow club with a one or two seat aircraft to appreciate why I think that's a good thing.