Avid Flyer with Subaru eng. - Help needed

[jim boyd]

I acquired a Avid Flyer MD C H HLR with a Subaru Turbo EA81 eng. Didn't get much info. with it. If some one out there has some information on one similar I would be very thankful. One problem is the weight and balance.

[martymayes]

I acquired a Avid Flyer MD C H HLR with a Subaru Turbo EA81 eng. Didn't get much info. with it. One problem is the weight and balance.

Project? Has it ever flown?

[Mike M]

I acquired a Avid Flyer MD C H HLR with a Subaru Turbo EA81 eng. Didn't get much info. with it. If some one out there has some information on one similar I would be very thankful. One problem is the weight and balance.

I built an avid flyer model c. What the heck is a MD C H HLR? As to wt & bal, yeah, i believe you have a problem. that engine is about three tons more than the aircraft was designed to carry. Put it on a pylon over the cg point, maybe?

[rwanttaja]

What the heck is a MD C H HLR?
Avid Model C Heavy Hauler, I expect.

Ron Wanttaja

[Floatsflyer]

that engine is about three tons more than the aircraft was designed to carry. Put it on a pylon over the cg point, maybe?

Ya, a poured concrete pylon on your front lawn, attach airplane, nobody gets hurt and the neighbours have something to amuse them and talk about. Everyone wins.

[martymayes]

I built an avid flyer model c. What the heck is a MD C H HLR? As to wt & bal, yeah, i believe you have a problem. that engine is about three tons more than the aircraft was designed to carry. Put it on a pylon over the cg point, maybe?

Where would that be? Fwd of the firewall? lol

[rwanttaja]

As to wt & bal, yeah, i believe you have a problem. that engine is about three tons more than the aircraft was designed to carry. Put it on a pylon over the cg point, maybe?
Actually, out of ~600 Avids in the FAA database, forty of them have Subaru engines. Some are Magnums, but many are Avid Flyer Mark IVs. I suspect the CG issues aren't that major.

Jim, I'm suspecting you bought N751N. Use the FAA registration database, and look up the owners of N4175M, N399S, and N762CT. Those are also Avid Heavy Haulers with Subaru engines.

Ron Wanttaja

[Mike M]

but many are Avid Flyer Mark IVs. I suspect the CG issues aren't that major Ron Wanttaja

Model C Heavy Hauler engine was rotax 532, later 582. Engine installed weights are always debated, but i do remember holding the rotax up to the engine mount (avid hung rotax inverted) balanced on my hip with one arm while starting the mount bolts with the other hand. yes, i was younger then, and so much better looking. i respect anybody who can do that with a turbo'd subaru! CG can be corrected with enough ballast. Model C Heavy Hauler max gross weight was 1085. i'd rather carry payload than ballast, but hey. your mileage may vary.

www.avidflyeraircraft.com/model_c.php

[cub builder]

Without getting into a debate about the virtues of the Subaru, it is pretty heavy for an Avid Mk 4. I built a heavy hauler Avid and used a 2180VW. Even that required a 15# lead weight at the tail post to get it to balance and was a pretty poor performer compared to the 582 Rotax. If you determine the engine to be something you would be willing to fly behind, put the plane on the scales and do a proper weight and balance. If you can get the plane to balance properly within the prescribed gross weight, you have a good starting point. If not, then it's time to start evaluating other powerplant options. If I was going to build one again, I would use an A65/75 Continental and add the appropriate amount of lead at the tail to get it to balance.

My experience with the Avid is that if the CG is too far forward, the tail will wash out well above the normal stall speed, requiring a relatively hot landing speed to keep the tail flying. This probably goes without saying, but do not fly this plane unless your can get the CG is correct.

-Cubbuilder

[jim boyd]

Ron, thanks for the info. and yes I did and if you have any details on that plane would like to know. Seem cheap enough so took a chance. Been flying for years but just getting into the experimental planes a little green. I will try to contact those you suggested. Again thanks for the reply. Jim Boyd

[rwanttaja]

Ron, thanks for the info. and yes I did and if you have any details on that plane would like to know. Seem cheap enough so took a chance. Been flying for years but just getting into the experimental planes a little green. I will try to contact those you suggested. Again thanks for the reply. Jim Boyd

Well, other than that it once overran the runway in North Carolina with 96 people on board, I can't tell you much. :-)

http://books.google.com/books/about/Aircraft_accident_report_Piedmont_Airlin.html?id=Q b9QAAAAYAAJ

Actually, I see your plane was added to the registry about twenty years later, in 1993. Do you have any logbooks that might tell you how much total time the aircraft had? If the plane has several hundred hours, the builder probably had mitigated any CG issues to a reasonable extent.

In any case, the airframe is identical to that of ordinary Heavy Haulers....and, beyond a beef-up or two, probably extremely similar to that of a standard Avid Mark IV. The CG limits and reference points are probably the same. Check with the Avid user groups, someone can probably get you the numbers. After that, it's time to get some scales and see where the CG of your bird actually lies.

Ron Wanttaja

[dan959gt]

Have you got it flying? I am in East TN and have one. Let me know if there is anything I can do.

[crusty old aviator]

Lead in the tail? What a waste! Try shortening the engine mount! Put that engine within a half-inch of the firewall if you need to. You don't have an accessory case with magnetos and such to fiddle with. Make your own engine mount so the starboard attach bolts can act like hinge pins, then you can swing the engine mount away from the firewall to get access.
Be a homebuilder! Join the snobby elite and look down on those who buy instead of build everything! Oh wait! We're the New EAA now, we no longer think like that. Okay, go out and buy a big-ass lead brick and have fun figuring out how and where to attach it to the tubing in your tail (find an elite snob and ask her if you can't figure it out, but be forewarned: she may suggest welding up a different engine mount).