Patty Wagstaff returning to Airventure?

[danielfindling]

While browsing the net: http://www.pattywagstaff.com/schedule.htm

I noticed Patty Wagstaff's schedule reports an Airventure show. I think it would be great to see her perform again at Airventure. However EAA's site has no mention of it? Anyone know if it is going to happen? It would be nice to turn the page and move forward from her previous predicament.

Daniel

[rawheels]

I think it would be great to see her perform again at Airventure.

I agree. 5 years seems like a long enough probation, but locals may feel differently.

[steveinindy]

I agree. 5 years seems like a long enough probation, but locals may feel differently.

But I would think the local liquor distributors, defense attorneys and auto body shops would like to see her back. She's a hell of a stick and rudder pilot- better than almost anyone save Bob Hoover- but she still should have been held to the same standard as the rest of us after that debacle a few years back. The rest of us would have probably kissed our medicals goodbye after a public DUI offense at a major airshow.

[dewi8095]

But I would think the local liquor distributors, defense attorneys and auto body shops would like to see her back. She's a hell of a stick and rudder pilot- better than almost anyone save Bob Hoover- but she still should have been held to the same standard as the rest of us after that debacle a few years back. The rest of us would have probably kissed our medicals goodbye after a public DUI offense at a major airshow.

Double standards are at work most everywhere.

Don

[FlyingRon]

A single DUI isn't going to kill your medical, but you're going to have to show the court records, driving history in every state you've been issued to show you hadn't had another, etc... alcohol assessment, etc.

A second event with a second class is going to be even tougher. Even for a third, they'll want demonstration of complete abstinence from alcohol. For a second, there will be continual monitoring from an HIMS AME and repeated testing to assure compliance. It will not be cheap.

And as far as the FAA is concerned, it doesn't matter if you got it on the backroads of Fairfax County like Randy Babbitt driving your Ford Mustang down show center at Oshkosh.

[Bill Greenwood]

As far as I know Patty has never had any DUI offense except this one, which seems to me is somewhat less than if you were driving on a public road where other traffic was in danger. She was driving on the taxiway or maybe runway, at night, when the airport is closed to any airplane traffic.

I think this event became so big mostly because of who she was. If this had happened to anyone not familiar to the public the outroar might well have been less.

Also Patty is probably a type A personality, and she may not have been as meek and cooperative and repentant when she was stopped as she might have been.
If I remember right the sheriff officer was female too, so there may have been a clash of two of the same strong willed independent people.

It does seem to me that some of you are judging her awfully harshly, like one mistake and she should lose her pilot rights forever.

Now, I think drunk driving is a serious thing, and should be dealt with strongly if there is really is a dangerous situation like someone speeding through traffic or repeat offenses.
I know Patty, not well but just to say hello. I have flown formation next her and she is obviously a top pilot and very polite and normal on the radio.None of that," I'm the boss" stuff that one sometimes get with men who wish they were commanding the troops.

I don't know her that well to do it myself, but hopefully whoever is close to her has had a sincere conversation with her to the point that one mistake might deserve a second chance, but it can't happen again.
I also imagine that she is a pretty bright lady and knows this herself.

Repeat offenses may mean that someone did not just do something foolish, but really has an addiction weakness, and just can't stop. These people should not be driving.

I have a friend who is actually in prison now, finishing a year sentence for DUI. He is a nice guy, would never intentionally hurt anyone, but he can't stop drinking. Fortunately he has never even had an accident. What he does is get in his truck, buy a bottle, and go park and drink himself into a stupor. Not even really driving, but still qualifies as DUI. And he has had numerous chances but still can't lay off for good.

I really hate mean drunks; and the police blotter is full of the trouble they cause. There is a young man who is in jail here now, who went clubbing to celebrate his birthday, and ends up at 2 am in a bar fight and hitting a cop. So, for just being really stupid he is facing a min of 5 years in prison. It will likely be plea bargained down.

[Joe Delene]

If it's been 5 years, that's enough. I welcome her back.

[somorris]

I think everyone on the forums I have been on has been way to hard on Patty. She was just at Oshkosh having a good time with friends, had a little too much to drink and did something dumb. Just because she is who she is, it isn't fair to be so hard on her. Let her come back.

[steveinindy]

Also Patty is probably a type A personality, and she may not have been as meek and cooperative and repentant when she was stopped as she might have been.
If I remember right the sheriff officer was female too, so there may have been a clash of two of the same strong willed independent people.

Let's just call it what it was: "resisting arrest".


It does seem to me that some of you are judging her awfully harshly, like one mistake and she should lose her pilot rights forever.

If you put yourself out in the public eye like she does and are held out as a role model to young women (or men for that matter since she has been a pilot with a level of skill I have sought to emulate my entire time in aviation), you should be held to a higher standard and likewise hold yourself to an even higher standard. That is just what I have always been taught.

Maybe I am just being more sensitive than I should be. A month ago today, two of my friends and EMS colleagues were murdered by a driver who had a few drinks, made some poor decisions and then who got away on technicalities because our prosecutor down here is a spineless ninny.

[Check 6]

She didn't receive favorable treatment. Here is what the presiding judge Barbara Key said on the record:


Key said the incident involving Wagstaff was not much different than other
first-offense drunken driving or resisting an officer cases she sees and
therefore the penalty Wagstaff received should not be any harsher or more
lenient because she is a famous aerobatic pilot.

[RV8505]

Let's just call it what it was: "resisting arrest".



If you put yourself out in the public eye like she does and are held out as a role model to young women (or men for that matter since she has been a pilot with a level of skill I have sought to emulate my entire time in aviation), you should be held to a higher standard and likewise hold yourself to an even higher standard. That is just what I have always been taught.





Isn't there any forgiveness Javert ? Have pitty, as people make mistakes.

[danielfindling]

Isn't there any forgiveness Javert ? Have pitty, as people make mistakes.

Well said. Love the Les Miserables reference.

. . .


If I speak, I am condemned.
If I stay silent, I am damned!


Who am I? Who am I?
I am Jean Valjean

Now try getting the tune out of your head. :)

[steveinindy]

Isn't there any forgiveness Javert ? Have pitty, as people make mistakes.

There's a difference between making a mistake and making the conscious decision to do something you know is both a stupid idea and illegal. Let's look at it from an aviation perspective: Would we be so forgiving if she were a celebrity and a non-instrument rated pilot who took off into a dark night with low ceilings and icing conditions? No, we'd crucify her as an idiot. The fact that she didn't kill herself or someone else should not reduce the stupidity of the choice she made.


Now try getting the tune out of your head.

Thanks....it's stuck in my head now too. LOL



She didn't receive favorable treatment.

At the local level, you are correct. I am willing to bet if Sean Tucker (for example, not that I think Sean would) had been the one DUI'ing it down show center, I am willing to bet that he would kiss his low altitude aerobatics endorsement goodbye because he just demonstrated some incredibly poor judgment. He might get away with his pilot certificates but I think there would be a lot of scrutiny of whether the sort of person who will drink and drive is really the type of person you want making choices that could wipe out a crowd at an airshow with one moment of poor judgment.

By the way, yes, I am arguing that it was probably Patty's status as the top female airshow performer that saved her from losing her livelihood.

[Cary]

None of us is so perfect that we have the right to judge others, period. None of us was there, so we can only go by what was published here and there. At this point, though, it's in the past, and if Patty did everything she was required to do by the judge, it's way past time for the rest of us imperfect people to forgive--and that includes the EAA hierarchy and anyone else who has a say in whether she should return to OSH.

Cary

[Victor Bravo]

Let the first stone be cast by the pilot among us who has not done something really stupid. Whether it was stupidity due to alcohol, testosterone (guilty, Your Honor), or anything else.

Patty's incident had nothing to do with flying an aircraft. Where she was driving is immaterial; Oshkosh campers and airplane owners were no more or less of an "innocent public at risk" than a bus full of schoolchildren outside the Airventure grounds. In fact, you could even make a case for the airport property being a little "less public" than public roads. If it was a closed, non-operational runway or taxiway, and there were no pedestrians or campers in the immediate area, then it is even less of a hanging offense.

I'm guessing that she was given a few years off the Airventure schedule to contemplate her position as a role model for young people, and as a high profile performer representative of EAA. Like the guy who accidentally put jet fuel in Bob Hoover's P-51, I'll bet that Patty will become a poster child for safety and good judgement.

Besides, IMHO it would be a particularly humorous double standard for her to be excommunicated from the event, for driving around the Airventure grounds after having a drink or two.

Drunk driving is a no-no, and should be punished, and should be taken very seriously when you are putting other people's lives at risk.

[danielfindling]

It's official. Welcome back Patty Wagstaff to Oshkosh

[gbrasch]

From EAA:







http://www.airventure.org/news/2013/images/patty-wagstaff.jpg


April 4, 2013 - Patty Wagstaff, the three-time National Aerobatic Champion and National Aviation Hall of Fame member who was a popular fixture at EAA AirVenture Oshkosh for more than two decades, is returning to the EAA fly-in convention's air shows in 2013 flying new aircraft and performances.
Wagstaff will fly several days in the afternoon air shows, presented by Rockwell Collins, during EAA AirVenture, which is July 29-August 4 at Wittman Regional Airport in Oshkosh.
"Patty is one of the most decorated aerobatic pilots in American history as well as a pioneer for women in the aerobatic community," said Jim DiMatteo, EAA's vice president of AirVenture features and attractions. "In addition to Patty's performances during the afternoon air show's all-star lineup, she will also be participating in warbird flying during our special female-pilot warbird flights on Thursday, August 1."
Wagstaff spent the past several years flying firefighting aircraft in California, which greatly limited her air show training time and reduced her performance schedule. In 2013, she decided to return to the air show circuit where she had thrilled audiences throughout North America since the mid-1980s.
This year at Oshkosh, Wagstaff will be flying the Embraer Mk. 2 Tucano, a light-attack and training aircraft. This former Royal Air Force trainer turboprop will fly a full aerobatic routine, believed to the first solo routine flown at a North American public air show.
"I'm excited about returning to Oshkosh, because I really missed seeing all the wonderful people there and on the air show circuit," Wagstaff said. "Flying firefighting support was a tremendous experience for me over the past three years, but I'm really looking forward to flying the Tucano at Oshkosh, and maybe another airplane, too, so stay tuned."
The air shows at EAA AirVenture are highly regarded by air show performers and audiences alike, as the world's top civilian aerobatic performers fly before fellow aviators and the most knowledgeable crowds on the air show circuit. While some Oshkosh air show performers have already been announced (http://www.airventure.org/attractions/airshows.html), the complete roster of pilots and aircraft will be announced as it is finalized.
---------------------------

[Lindberg]

Yep, she did a naughty thing a few years back. She paid for that. I'm sure she learned a lesson. I am glad to see her back. I missed her. Since 2008 something seemed missing. Many aviation greats have been big time drinkers in their heyday. Patty was naughty that day and she was arrested. This kind of thing happens when you mix alcohol with fame. Well, she paid her debt to society. Aerobatic pilot Patty Wagstaff appeared in a Wisconsin court Friday to face charges stemming from a July 31 incident at Wittman Regional Airport during last summer's AirVenture.

Here's the basic story:

Wagstaff, 57, pleaded no contest to first-offense drunken driving and a misdemeanor charge of resisting an officer. A related charge of refusing to submit to breathalyzer and blood-alcohol tests was dropped as part of a plea bargain.
Winnebago County Assistant District Attorney Adam Levin told the court that after her arrest, Wagstaff was verbally abusive to law enforcement, hospital and jail staff, using profanity, calling the officers "pigs" and saying they "did not know who they were dealing with."
"This was an unpleasant display of somebody thinking they were more special than others," Levin said, and recommended the court fine Wagstaff $1,300 and impose a nine-month suspension of her driving privileges.
Defense Attorney Michael Lim argued that allegations of abusive language and the police reports in general had been exaggerated. Lim requested the court set the fine at $225 with a six month license revocation, reported the Oshkosh Northwestern.
Winnebago County Circuit Court Judge Barbara Key sentenced Wagstaff to pay $500 in fines plus court costs, and revoked her driver's license for eight months. "This isn't something atypical that police have to deal with," Key said. "And I don't think the defendant should pay anything more because of who she is or anything less either."
As ANN reported (http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=2532b306-f237-43fd-854f-24399fe588cb&Dynamic=1), Wagstaff had the altercation at AirVenture 2008 while attempting to get back from the "Gathering of Eagles" dinner, en route to the nearby Hilton, using interior airport access. Wagstaff was reportedly among a group of at least three other persons, and apparently got off-kilter on the grounds of Wittman Field. Her vehicle got the rapt attention of Oshkosh airport/airshow security, and the situation went downhill from there.
Wagstaff freely admitted that she was "in the wrong place at the wrong time" and horribly embarrassed at what transpired. Security "busted" her for being in an unauthorized area on the airport grounds, and the matter escalated into an "uncomfortable" situation which required the attention of the Winnebago County Sheriff to resolve."

Welcome back Patty, and thank you EAA for bringing her back!

[Check 6]

Why are y'all beating a dead horse by bringing up her arrest again? Do y'all know she is a member here? Would any of you appreciate someone posting a similar story about y'all?

She is back, that is great, move on, please.

[Hal Bryan]

Well said, Check 6.

I'm excited to see Patty return, especially as she'll be flying the bigger, heavier Tucano, which I think we'll be a very interesting change from the Extra.

[Floatsflyer]

Why are y'all beating a dead horse by bringing up her arrest again? Do y'all know she is a member here? Would any of you appreciate someone posting a similar story about y'all?

Because her behavior must be an example to all....y'all. DON'T DRIVE DRUNK!!! EVER!!! I don't give a damn if she's a member, is that supposed to excuse her or make us feel pity? Her behavior before, during and after arrest was repugnant and was the result of the celebrity culture we live in. Her sense of entitlement needed to be and was successfully challenged with a conviction. She should now speak formally to her fans about the perils and consequences of driving drunk.

What kind of absurd argument is "would any of you appreciate someone posting...about y'all?" as if I'm the one who should feel worse because of her bad behaviour. If you don't commit a socially repugnant crime then no one will write negatively about you--celebrity or not.

[RV8505]

Because her behavior must be an example to all....y'all. DON'T DRIVE DRUNK!!! EVER!!! I don't give a damn if she's a member, is that supposed to excuse her or make us feel pity? Her behavior before, during and after arrest was repugnant and was the result of the celebrity culture we live in. Her sense of entitlement needed to be and was successfully challenged with a conviction. She should now speak formally to her fans about the perils and consequences of driving drunk.

What kind of absurd argument is "would any of you appreciate someone posting...about y'all?" as if I'm the one who should feel worse because of her bad behaviour. If you don't commit a socially repugnant crime then no one will write negatively about you--celebrity or not.

Queen "Bohemian Rhapsody". Beelzebub has a devil put aside for me. The narrator has killed a man and is to be executed for the crime. He believes he'll go to Hell, where Beelzebub (chief devil) will have a lesser devil reserved ("put aside") specially to torment him. I guess that is what we got going on here. Why don't you just invite her to Airventure and tie her to a stake and burn her! There was nothing wrong about defending herself in court as she saw fit. It is still America for now. The public eye has a long memory and maybe that is why she fought the way she did. She probably knows some people simply do not forget. Her sins do not merely fade into obscurity like our transactions do. The Mob, Prosecutor, People ( Use whatever term you favor) got their pound of flesh. She was punished but she doesn't deserve pity or eternal damnation either. She owes nobody nothing!. Today is a new day so leave her alone!

[Floatsflyer]

Hey RV, when you finish printing up those 'get out of jail free' cards, send one to me will ya. Never know when I might need to be entitled.

[RV8505]

Floatsflyer, What happend to all that peace love hippy bus stuff a few posts back?

[Hal Bryan]

This thread is now officially pointless. Time to move on.