Electricly Adjustable Prop Legality

[WWhunter]

Ok guys, I have seen this written several times on various flying threads and personally have my doubts that it is legal.
What I am refering to is the people that placard an electrically adjustable prop switch with some such wording as " ground use only".... "not to be used in flight"....this is used to get around the LSA rules stating a prop has to be ground adjustable or fixed pitched only.
Are people actually allowed to skirt the rule by doing this?

[cluttonfred]

I am sure it will be just fine unless and until the FAA or insurance company investigation after a crash. :| If you moved the switch to inside the cowling or some other spot inaccessible in flight, you could make the case that it is for convenient ground adjustment only. Otherwise, to my mind, it's like installing retractable gear and promising not to use it -- a clear violation of the spirit and probably the letter of the rules.


Ok guys, I have seen this written several times on various flying threads and personally have my doubts that it is legal.
What I am refering to is the people that placard an electrically adjustable prop switch with some such wording as " ground use only".... "not to be used in flight"....this is used to get around the LSA rules stating a prop has to be ground adjustable or fixed pitched only.
Are people actually allowed to skirt the rule by doing this?

[WWhunter]

Mathew I totally agree. That is why I posed the question.....I keep seeing guys state that this is what they are going to do to 'skirt' the issue. All this does in my mind is give the FAA another reason to clamp down on what little freedoms we have left. I just would like to see a clear ruling on it to be able to pose to the people that plan on installing an electric prop in their plane.

[Bob Dingley]

This is what I have seen the FSDO approve: In fact they directed it:

Turbine aircraft carrying 10 or more passengers need a two pilot crew. If only one pilot is available, Seats can be either removed or placarded "Do not occupy".. Make a log book entry that the bird is limited to nine passengers. If seats are removed, change W&B chart C.

If an engine control system that the FAA directed to be installed for certification turns out to be a big mistake, it can be disabled. This is how it is officially done:

Pull that system's circuit breaker.
put a tie wrap around the circuit breaker to prevent reset.
Glue a placard to the instrument panel that says "( Name of system) disabled."
Put an entry in the log book stating that the system is disabled.

If your prop doesn't have a CB, install one in plain sight that you can be tie wraped. Any questions, get back with me. The whole story will make you ROTFLYAO.
Bob

[WLIU]

I second Mr Dingley's recommendation. My experience is identical. A placard, in the eyes of the FAA, radiates a regulatory force field that forces compliance, so the correct placard takes care of all issues.

Best of luck,

Wes

[cluttonfred]

Yes, disabling the system per Bob' suggestions would certainly seem to resolve the issue except that the regulations specifically require that the airplane be originally certificated and ***continuously operated within the LSA definition*** in order to be eligible for operation by sport pilots. Doesn't that mean that the aircraft would not be eligible to be operated by a sport pilot if the prop pitch adjustment had EVER been used in-flight ?

[WLIU]

That issue can not come up because with the correct placard the situation that you describe is not possible.

And this is not a forum for suggesting operation contrary to the FARs.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Mike M]

That issue can not come up because with the correct placard the situation that you describe is not possible.

And this is not a forum for suggesting operation contrary to the FARs.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

OUTSTANDING ANSWER! "with the correct placard the situation ... is not possible" !!!!

[Kevin O'Halloran]

I'm sure everyone on this list turns off their " Only for VFR use GPS" when they get into IFR

[Bob Dingley]

If we were all flying self launch gliders, we would not be having this conversation.

I am hot headed enough to request a waiver useing the usual buzz words like "no appreciable effect on safety",etc.

I have flown under various waivers from time to time. My bosses asked for all of them, not me. FAA granted some without even being requested. None were listed in the FAA list of waiverable FARs. (FAR 91-905)

Bob

[WLIU]

Well you were there and I was not but my experience has been that you can obtain a "Certificate of Authorization", which is NOT a waiver in the eyes of the regulators, for any number of operations. I will suggest that is likely what your folks obtained for your operations.

The FAA hardly ever issues a "waiver" to an FAR as that is, in their eyes, an open ended permission to operate contrary to an FAR. BUT they often issue a certificate of authorization that allows an operation that normally is forbidden by FARs, writing the specific location and limitations into the paperwork. I do these regularly. The difference is technical but very significant in the eyes of the regulators.

The FAA FSDO aviation safety inspector's manual tells them what they can do and how they can do it. The manual is online and is a public document. FAA Order 8900.1 Flight Standards Information Management System. Good bedtime reading.

Now the FSDO can issue amendments to operating limitations for individual aircraft. I think that a maintenance inspector can do this. But there might be consultation with operations inspector(s) and certification staff at the regional level depending on what is involved.

Getting back to the original question, you could submit a request to your FSDO for amended operating limitations for your one aircraft to install a placard that reads something like "In flight operation of the propeller pitch change control may only be performed by a pilot holding the minimum of a Private Pilot Certificate with a High Performance logbook endorsement." You will likely need to submit a proposed Flight Manual Supplement that includes the propeller manufacturer's instructions for operation. The Flight Manual Supplement will have to be approved at the region Aircraft Certification Office level.

So the description above gives you an idea as to how the FAA system works. With today's budget issues, if you give the process a try, be patient. An application for this type of approval, if they will process it, is low on their FSDO priority list. Things have drastically slowed in the last year. My last field approval was in process for 10 months for no externally observable reason.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[Bob Dingley]

You're right Wes. Come to think about it, some exemptions, waivers or what ever they are were imbeded in other docs. A LOA from Houston Ctr exempts us from FAR 99.11, FAA Security div excused us from some DOT regs. But one was a decade old plain and simple waiver of 135.99(b) and described as such by FSDO, mgt & pilots. One day, a guy from FSDO asked a pilot "Why do we keep on requesting that waiver" and he shot back "Why do you keep renewing it?" Six months latter, it was gone.

It was a pleasure to saddle up my Luscombe on days off because the rules are easy & clear cut. Not like comm aviation where many FARs had an escape clause. I am still convinced that if you ask nice in writing, the FAA will be helpful.
Bob