Opinion On Chalets

[Bill Greenwood]

This is just my opinion on the question of having chalets, which is an enclosed viewing tent on the flight line that is usually sold to a corporate or group sponsor. It may have catered food and nice seating and of course be more expensive.

Just for me, as a longtime EAA member, I am ok with this if it is kept a small part of the flight line and if it makes significant money for EAA.
I think I read that last year they brought in $100 K to EAA. This is money that can be used to pay for other worthwhile programs or part of the convention costs.

How much of the flight line is ok to give to chalets; 10%, 15%? I don't really know, and I usually watch the show, when I watch it, from the north end, so I may not see an obscured view the same as someone near show center where these tents are. Obviously it would be unacceptable if the tents took over a large part of the viewing area.

This has been a hot topic of contention for some posters on this forum, and I understand the feeling that some people seem to hold that these chalets represent an elite section that gets away from the ordinary guy next door feeling that EAA/OSH has had in the past.
I do think we need some growth upwards at Oshkosh, not just a focus on the simplest and most basic part of EAA.
And if we err, let's do it on the side that serves the most regular folks.

But, if those that plan the show ,keep it in proportion, then I think chalets can be on the right side of risk/reward. I'll trust them to do that, until it is shown that it goes too far.

By the way, I liked the small ferris wheel for kids near the flymarket last year.

[Frank Giger]

The funny thing about the chalets being on the flight line is that I'd bet the people inside them are paying as much attention to the airplanes as skybox people do to sporting events. Lots of schmoozing with some complaints about all the noise making it hard to talk about the witty tweet they just sent.

I'd bet twenty bucks you could set up the same chalets at a different airport close to Oshkosh (limo service, natch), double the "Special VIP checks" for access* to make them feel even more special, have an "exclusive airshow" of nothing but executive jets doing a slow taxi past it every five minutes and generate twice the cash. They could get Mac to be the airshow announcer.

* Better yet, have someone act like they recognize them as important and wave them through the velvet gates without checking.

Have some volunteers show up with their seats right behind the chalets so their view is block. Bonus points if one can manage them to look wistfully envious at the VIPs.

[Kevin O'Halloran]

I heard the same 100K number--its hard to complain about losing 8 parking spots and getting 100K in return.
the normal members like Me may not like the idea---but the fact is, it Cost a lot to put on airventure--
Kevin ( not a 1%er )

[rleffler]

I'm not sure that I have a fundemental problem with the concept of the chalets, but more of the location of them and the prime show plane parking spaces that they eliminated. Like Frank suggested, I wonder if they would be sucessfull if they were located on the west side of the taxiway. (i.e. in the area near the Honda tent) They can still see most of the air show and have the luxories that they are paying extra to receive.

[Kyle Boatright]

I heard the same 100K number--its hard to complain about losing 8 parking spots and getting 100K in return.
the normal members like Me may not like the idea---but the fact is, it Cost a lot to put on airventure--
Kevin ( not a 1%er )

EAA didn't make $100k. If I recall correctly, the receipts were ~$140k and the profits were under $50k. That's a tangible profit.

The tangible loss was something like a dozen parking spaces in the middle of the showplane area plus the loss of airshow seating for the great unwashed in that area. The intangible cost was the EAA ticking off a lot of its core members. Ultimately, I think that'll cost EAA a lot more than the ~$50k the EAA made from the chalets in 2012. Arguably, the chalets were the most visible reason Rod got pushed out the door.
.
To another poster's point, if EAA can relocate the chalets to second or third class real estate (as opposed to show center, flightline), I'm not sure the VIP's will miss much, and the everyday members probably won't have a problem with it.

[Bill Greenwood]

Simple solutions:
Reinstate the 12 homebuilt parking spaces and charge each owner $10,000 rent for them for the week. Viola, $120 K to EAA and no grumpy old men (EAA members) get their view blocked.

Or Rent the parking as one big space to Boeing for $120K , for them to park a 787 there, and all the many craftsman, homebuilders, and general fiddle with it and maybe fix it guys in EAA come over and have a shot at solving the battery overheating problems that have resulted in the grounding of the 787.

The grounding issue is really BIG money and if the EAA guys fix it, and get the 787 flying again, then Boeing could make a very BIG donation to EAA.
Who knows, you might see a 787 with 93 Harley batteries duct taped together in a 787 and a solar panel on top of the fuselage.

And by the way Kevin, there aren't any "normal members" in EAA are there? We, they, are a bunch of opinionated, self centered, smarter than the next guy, type A folks. It would be boring otherwise.

And along this thought path, I am sure many EAA members will be taking Sun off from aviation to watch the Superbowl. EAAtypes will fit right in withall the other experts who know exactly what plays the losing coach should have called and what reciever the losing QB should have thrown to in order to avoid that interception, at what defense Ray Lewis should have beeen in when they gave up the touchdown. If only they had asked us!

[rleffler]

We, they, are a bunch of opinionated, self centered, smarter than the next guy, type A folks. It would be boring otherwise.


One of the more accurate statements I've seen in the forums! And I probably fit that description too. :P

[rickatic]

We have been to the last five Oshkosh's...We arrive in our fifth wheel camping rig...between airplanes at this time...we watch most of the airshows for the entire week...We have seen both chalet/non-chalet shows...we view the show from just south of show center, just south of where they park Duggie...there was a big private tent back by the street but nothing near the burn line...

Reality for us is "no chalet interference yet"...The way they parked Duggie and the Junger TriMotor was a much bigger obstacle...without a "show plane", we are unaffected by the chalets to the North but understand why some may be offended. If given the chance to vote on chalets, we would say more are welcome but keep them back behind the street as already suggested. The additional money would be nice but do not block the views of the real attendees that care about aviation...JMO...YMMV...

Regards

[Floatsflyer]

...there aren't any "normal members" in EAA are there? We, they, are a bunch of opinionated, self centered, smarter than the next guy, type A folks. It would be boring otherwise.

You forgot self absorbed, intolerant, arrogant, self righteous, sanctimonious, misinformed, too easily offended, too many statements expressed as false premises.....ya, that about completes your list. ;)

[steveinindy]

You forgot self absorbed, intolerant, arrogant, self righteous, sanctimonious, misinformed, too easily offended, too many statements expressed as false premises.....ya, that about completes your list.

You egotistical jerk. You beat me to pointing that out. ;)

(no offense intended of course....just running with the shtick)

[Kevin O'Halloran]

I think we need to charge the guys that fly to Airventure in their expensive spam cans more than the pilots of home builts.
Its only "fair" that those rich guys pay more !!!!
Screw all those damn Bonanza pilots !!!!---make them park at Appleton.
Kevin

[Check 6]

I had the opportunity to be invited to a chalet on the evening of the main airshow. My observations where that everyone was focused on the airshow, once it got started. The guests were definately pilots or serious aviation enthusiasts. No, we weren't complaining about the noise, we were all enjoying the airshow. :)

[Ed Olds]

I think the "chalet" concept was OK a few years back, but has gotten out of hand. It's like building skyscrapers in front of a beautiful mountain range. I understand the economics, but many of my friends have gotten tired of the "corporate" direction EAA took over the last years. I will say that this problem is far smaller than the problem caused by allowing people to drive into the camp ground and stake out 3 acres of territory for their RV, cycles, cars, bikes, and causing everyone else to camp out by Ripon!

[Wilfred]

I agree; the idea that one party can come and stake out space for other who are not present, and may not be on site for days is not fair. There is way too much of this...the camping area that has shade is gobbled up weeks before anyone appears...again, its not fair.

I've been to OSH seven times, flew 4, drove 3, and really doubt if I will attend again.

[Bill Greenwood]

I don't focus on what the folks in the chalet are doing, rather what affect the chalet has on the EAA and other attendees at the show. If it makes us some good money and doesn't take too much space then I think is a net positive.

Kevin ,I think we ought to send all those jets( less perhaps a few cool ones like F-86 to Appleton) and it would smell better and be alot quieter at Oshkosh.

As for rich Bonanza owners, well I'd like to be one of them, and maybe I could get a new paint job for my 1988 Be 36TC, but I spent most of my money on other fun airplanes and don;t have much left.

[Zack Baughman]

Just to be clear regarding camping, all the areas that are staked out in the campground prior to AirVenture and even during are paid for the day the stakes are put in the ground through the end of the event, whether there is anybody staying at the campsite or not. The costs really add up for the folks who come early and stake out areas and don't use them until the week of AirVenture. Additionally, it's not like only a select few are allowed to do this - anybody can come here the day the campground opens and claim a good spot in the campground.

Zack

[rleffler]

Just to be clear regarding camping, all the areas that are staked out in the campground prior to AirVenture and even during are paid for the day the stakes are put in the ground through the end of the event, whether there is anybody staying at the campsite or not. The costs really add up for the folks who come early and stake out areas and don't use them until the week of AirVenture. Additionally, it's not like only a select few are allowed to do this - anybody can come here the day the campground opens and claim a good spot in the campground.

Zack

I'm not complaining. Any fool that wants to drop a couple grand in June to reserve a prime spot is more than welcomed. To be honest, I can't think of a more fair way to manage the sites at Camp Scholler.

Back to the thread subject of Chalet opinions.......

[FlyingRon]

The Chalets didn't bother me as much as the "front of the flight line" speaker towers or the Luggage pavillion built in the middle of the Antique taxiway.

[Marc_CYBW]

I'm with Post #12. I used the EAA chalet for 3 days and would not have survived the heat without it. Met a lot of great people, enjoyed the food and watched the air show. My only complaints of air show? 1. too long! Two passes of any airplane and I'm satisfied. 2. The announcer volume was ear splitting. Having been twice, I think I'm done with AirVenture. It was fun. I have the approach via Fisk and a landing on 27 in my log.
On to another, much smaller, gathering. Any suggestions? (can't get away from Calgary to do sun 'n fun much as I would like to)

[MNWORD]

FYI from the other forum Hangar Talk,As to the chalets: Rod Hightower, prior to his departure in October, had already stated publicly that the chalets in the 2012 location were a miss and would be rectified for 2013. That was a first-year effort and much was learned, good and bad. Your feedback is exactly what one hopes for to make the event better for everyone who attends. Jack Pelton, EAA’s chairman, has been very specific about keeping the flight line improvements to those that will benefit EAA members.As for site improvements, some of those in the planning stages right now include an additional permanent restroom facility south of Phillips 66 Plaza (West Ramp/AeroShell Square), a new perimeter road west of the vintage and ultralight areas that should lessen vehicle traffic on Wittman Road near the vintage area, improvements in the South 40 shower facility, and the start of a improvements in the North 40 entrance gate area that will untangle the current knot of people, vehicles, trams and airplanes in that area. There are some others that escape me at the moment, including some additional upgrades in Camp Scholler. As you can imagine, there are plenty of suggestions for grounds enhancements each year and we try to apply the finite amount of resources to those that will provide the greatest benefits.If you have any specific questions, we’re happy to answer them as best we can. Thanks again for the comment, and I hope I can find where your previous email dropped off into cyberspace. There might be some others there that we haven’t answered yet as well.Best regards,Dick Knapinski, EAA #494456Senior Communications AdvisorEAA—The Spirit of AviationPhone: 920.426.6523Fax: 920.426.6560www.eaa.org

[rawheels]

I agree that it would be nice for the chalets to be moved to the west side of Whittman Rd. The few aircraft that did park in front of the chalets seemed to get lost since the area was boxed in with the EAA ops building on the north end, the chalets on the west, and the taxiway blocking the south. It would be nice for it to be opened up again.

The HondaJet spot would be a good location, but I doubt they would give up their nice concrete pad. They have had the spot for 8 years for the prototype. Now that they have actually started production (according to NBAA Oct 2012) I'm guessing they won't be willing to give it up.

Maybe Honda would be willing to add a second story for the VIP boxes like the HAI tent had? Can't remember who's view that would block. Is it the college tents that are between the EAAwarehouse and Hondajet?