How many hours before you fly passengers?

[Brian247028]

I'm not a pilot and while I have thought of getting my licenese I don't know if it will ever happen. In reading the thread about the IL plane crash there are a few comments in there that he didn't have enough hours to be flying passengers. I read one person say 500 hrs and another say 1000 hrs before they fly passengers.

If I do the math on this I was told once it makes sense to own your own plane if you fly 100 hrs a year or more. That means 5-10 years if you fly 100 hrs a year. How many people can afford 100 hrs a year to begin with? By me a 172 rents for $92 an hour wet. 500 hrs is $46,000 while 1000 hrs is $92,000. Using rough numbers and 1000 hours then I'm being told I need to spend 100K before I can fly with anyone.

I have a feeling this is going to be more of a debate and personal preference on when you feel you can fly others. From someone with little knowledge in the field I had assumed that once you get your license you are good to go and trained. Knowing I couldn't fly others around for another 5-10 years seems and $92,000 is a lot of money and a very long time. It would be like saying once you get your auto license that you can't drive others until you reach 50,000 miles for example. I do understand that a lot more can go wrong with flying then driving.

I guess the question is how do you know when you are ready to fly passengers with you when you go flying?

[Auburntsts]

Brian,
You can fly passengers as soon as you earn your private or sport pilot certificate. There's no way to quantify when a given pilot is "ready" to fly pax. Technically the FAA says you're ready when they issue the airman's cert. Whether you feel you're ready is just a matter of confidence. Back in 1986 I earned my Private with 55 hours in my log book. Hour 56 was my first flight with a passenger -- my dad who had helped me with the bill for my training.


EDIT: I finally went back and read the thread you were referring to. Look, there's no substitute for sound aeronatuical decision making. If you don't have it or don't exercise it, no amoujnt of hours is going to save you from making potenially life threatening mistake. If a pilot say's he's not comfortable taking pax with anything less than 500 or a 1000 hrs, OK but that's HIS or HER choice. But that is definently the exception to the rule.

[Brian247028]

Todd - I guess that is what my thinking was. I'm sure that some people will take a few more hours of time after their license but 500-1000 hrs seems like an extremely long time. On the other hand if the person feels they want more hours under their belt that is fine to.

[Auburntsts]

Absolutely! Flying is not a one size fits all activity. I seen guys with tons of hours that I wouldn't trust to drive me around in a golf cart much less in a plane and I've seen low timers that I'd have no problem letting them take my kids up. Once you start flying, you'll know where you fall in the spectrum and I'd be willing to bet you'd be flying pax soon after earning your certificate.

[1600vw]

Major airline will not hire a low time pilot for a reason. One can take the checkride pass it and start flying people, friends, family, is it safe or smart, I would say no. But understand when I say fly a passenger I am not talking about around the patch. I am talking x-country.

Read through the NTSB data base and you will see for yourself. We have restrictions on passengers in a car with a new driver. Why is this? Because its not safe.

When that bird went down in the Hudson, thank God a new pilot was not at the controls or acting as PIC.

[1600vw]

Ask yourself this.
If you where setting in a 747 getting ready for takeoff and the PIC came over the radio and said to everyone, I just received my pilots license yesterday. Would you stay aboard that bird?

Or lets say he says, I have flown for 70 hrs, would stay aboard that bird? Iknow my answer, I would be running for the exit.

[Auburntsts]

OK, let's not confuse part 121 or 135 ops with part 91. Sure ops under those parts are safer then under part 91 for a whole lot of reasons beyond pilot total time, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. Experience helps but that's not a panacea for bad decision making and stupid pilot tricks. You've advocated one position and that's fine, but its not the norm. I think it's over kill and it won't turn a bad pilot into a good one. Can we in GA do better -- without a doubt. Could we in the experimentall world, which has GA's worst safety record do better -- absolutley!!!!! However, I don't think setting arbitrary min hours for flying with pax is the way to do it.

[Auburntsts]

Ask yourself this.
If you where setting in a 747 getting ready for takeoff and the PIC came over the radio and said to everyone, I just received my pilots license yesterday. Would you stay aboard that bird?

Or lets say he says, I have flown for 70 hrs, would stay aboard that bird? Iknow my answer, I would be running for the exit.

OK that is simply rediculous. Equating flying a 162, or 172 or a PA-28 under part 91 verses a 747? This is starting to make more sense now.

[WLIU]

Traditionally, when a pilot comes back to home base after being awarded their Private Pilot Certificate, their next flight is with their Mother, girl friend, Father, etc. Thousands of pilots have done this.

Don't over think this. If you were not safe to carry a passenger, the examiner would not hand you a pilot certificate.

Flying into crappy weather is a whole 'nother issue. Too many pilots restrict their flying to really nice days and then go on a trip, find that when they want to fly home the weather has deteriorated, and get their weather experience as they "gotta" get home. These are the guys that you read about. My best advice is to make a point of every so often pick a day when the weather is stable or improving, but maybe 1500' and 5 miles, to go do touch and goes and a tour of the local area. Get used to how the vis gets worse close up below a cloud layer and better further down away from a cloud layer. Look at some virga up close. Do all this close to your home airport so that you can stop and land when you start to get uncomfortable. Do this a bunch of times and when you are trying to get home you will be much better equipped to look out the windshield in the direction of your destination and know when it is time to land and rent a car.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[1600vw]

Today we have passenger limits for those with new drivers license. I believe we should do the same with a PP. Its all in the name of saftey. If we want to see better numbers in the forum of saftey we need to change our thinking. Its the fool whom does the same thing but expects different outcomes. If you want different sftey numbers you must also act different.

This all started because someone posted an NTSB report about a man whom just passed his PP, took his children up with a friend and killed them all. not the first time and wont be the last. So tell those young ladies whom died....its ok for a low time pilot to fly family and I bet they would have a different answer then..Its ok....I bet they would run like the wind.

[Auburntsts]

Geez, based on that logic why don't we just ban flying -- that's the safest move of all. No flights, no crashes.

So it's OK if a pilot just kills himself and no others? Pax limits don't do anything to make a pilot safer. They simply reduce the risk everyone except the pilot. I think our energy would be better spent ensuring pilots made good, safe decisions. IOW lets stop the accident chain prior to the crash.

[Kyle Boatright]

Once you get your license is a fine time to take friends and family on joy rides. I suggest doing that in the daytime and in good weather (visibility, wind, etc.), and it is probably best to stay relatively close to home, so you don't have to worry about weather changing before you return home. My first flight with a passenger was at 45 or so hours with my Dad. We went up on the Saturday after I got my license, and did an aerial tour of the foothills of the Appalachians, which begin close to my home base. An hour later we were home, no muss, no fuss. I made similar flights with numerous friends over the next few months.

Twenty five or so flight hours later, a friend of mine (a student pilot) and I made my first X/C as PIC.

Small steps...small steps.

[Brian247028]

Once you get your license is a fine time to take friends and family on joy rides. I suggest doing that in the daytime and in good weather (visibility, wind, etc.), and it is probably best to stay relatively close to home, so you don't have to worry about weather changing before you return home. My first flight with a passenger was at 45 or so hours with my Dad. We went up on the Saturday after I got my license, and did an aerial tour of the foothills of the Appalachians, which begin close to my home base. An hour later we were home, no muss, no fuss. I made similar flights with numerous friends over the next few months.

Twenty five or so flight hours later, a friend of mine (a student pilot) and I made my first X/C as PIC.

Small steps...small steps.

I guess this is what I was thinking on how the process would take place. I also think comparing a 172 to a 747 is a big stretch. I don't believe that an airline lets their pilots fly around in 747's alone to practice. I would agree on the comment that even if you are in the air alone and get in over your head and crash you run the risk of taking out people on the ground. In the end if comes down to common sense.

[David Pavlich]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the progression that you have to fly as first officer before you get into the left seat when it comes to commercial?

David


Ask yourself this.
If you where setting in a 747 getting ready for takeoff and the PIC came over the radio and said to everyone, I just received my pilots license yesterday. Would you stay aboard that bird?

Or lets say he says, I have flown for 70 hrs, would stay aboard that bird? Iknow my answer, I would be running for the exit.

[1600vw]

Once you get your license is a fine time to take friends and family on joy rides. I suggest doing that in the daytime and in good weather (visibility, wind, etc.), and it is probably best to stay relatively close to home, so you don't have to worry about weather changing before you return home. My first flight with a passenger was at 45 or so hours with my Dad. We went up on the Saturday after I got my license, and did an aerial tour of the foothills of the Appalachians, which begin close to my home base. An hour later we were home, no muss, no fuss. I made similar flights with numerous friends over the next few months.

Twenty five or so flight hours later, a friend of mine (a student pilot) and I made my first X/C as PIC.

Small steps...small steps.


Kyle I could not agree more with your comment.

What happened in this case and in most cases like this, is this man took off for a few hundred mile trip on a day with with questionable weather along the route with passengers and none held any aviation certificate.

Some can argue this and that but the facts are people get there ticket and believe now they are rated to fly anywhere with anyone aboard. If people would take small steps our saftey issue's would be better.

This man tried to make a giant step with his children aboard and it cost them all dearly.

Just an example of how I do things.....A freind asked how many hrs he should fly off his new Homebuilt bird that has a Rotax that has sat for 20 years.

For those whom may not understand what I am saying. How long should he stay above his field before trying to venture out away from it.

I told him fly off 40 hrs. above his field or strip, then fly another 40 hrs. going maybe 3-5 miles away. After this he is ready to venture out away from home. I also said do what you want, but this is how I do it, and it has saved me and my bird more then once, or I would have been making some, off field landings.

I also told him if I could go out and buy a brand new bird then a 40 hr. fly off is fine, but these are not brand new certified birds. These are Home builts and treat them as such and be extra carefull with these for you do not want to be a statistic.

If you do this your chances of success is great and you will have a lot of fun. Do it any other way and he could live to regret it, or not live.

Just me but this is how I do things, you do what you want, I then walked away.

H.A.S.

[champ driver]

Brian, please don't let that one accident, or others, prevent you from getting your pilots license.

I've listened to that video, read all the other responses and thought about your questions too. It's obvious the accident pilot made a series of bad decisions and passed up opportunities to get on the ground when he had the chance. We can speculate on why he made those decisions, and what exactly he was trying to do while in flight, but, they're still speculation. The bottom line is he should'nt have been out there in those weather condidtions, with or without passengers. My personal opinion is that he should have jumped at the chance to get on the ground and worry about the departing delays or filling out the Feds paper work afterwards. Unfortunately, we as human beings sometimes don't make good decisions all the time, and some of us are better or worse than others in that respect. You can't teach good judgment, some of us have it and others don't.

I would guess that this man was a perfectly good pilot under normal weather circumstanses, But throw in the marginal weather and maybe some unfamiliarity with the area, and it's a whole different story.

Lets say you just got your license, would you feel safe flying on a calm clear day in an area you were familiar with? Of course you would. Would it really matter if you had passengers on board or not, not really. How would that change if it was windy and gusting 15-20 kts, and a direct crosswind? How about 3-4 miles vis and a 1500' ceiling, and it was getting dark on top of that? In those cases, having passengers on board or not doesn't make any difference either, my guess is you wouldn't feel too safe to make the flight.
What I'm trying to say is to start out with conditions you feel safe with and as you get more experience and skill you can increase your comfort in more challenging weather. Now before anyone gets their panties in a knot, I'm not saying you should work your way up to being out in any low vis weather, especially at night. You have to know your own personal and the planes limitations.

1600VW says that he would not carry any passengers until after 1000 hours. That's fine and it's his personal decision, can I fault him for that, absolutely not. Will most pilots do that, most will not or cannot. Start out in good weather and know your limitations, and the planes too. If you have at least some physical ability and coordination, and some common sense, you should be fine. Remember, if you don't bend any sheet metal, and you arrive without any scratches, your passengers will arrive safely too. In other words, don't do anything that could cause either of those two things to happen. And some of those decisions happen before you ever leave the ground.

Good luck, and hope you decide to take up pilot training.
Jim

[Brian247028]

Brian, please don't let that one accident, or others, prevent you from getting your pilots license.

Good luck, and hope you decide to take up pilot training.
Jim


Jim - This or others wouldn't scare me from getting my pilots license. Not to take this off topic but photography is my big hobby and that is why I hang out at AirVenture. This past summer I rented a plane (with a pilot) to do aerial photography of a yacht in sea trials. I help a friend crew her hot air balloon as well so I have plenty of things to keep me out of trouble. If I get my license and try to do aerial photography at the same time that might be a conflict of interest and cause a few problems....ha ha.

I simply like planes and flying from time to time. I have the itch now so in the next few weeks I hope to go up and do some winter aerial photography.

[martymayes]

Major airline will not hire a low time pilot for a reason. One can take the checkride pass it and start flying people, friends, family, is it safe or smart, I would say no. But understand when I say fly a passenger I am not talking about around the patch. I am talking x-country.

Read through the NTSB data base and you will see for yourself. We have restrictions on passengers in a car with a new driver. Why is this? Because its not safe.

When that bird went down in the Hudson, thank God a new pilot was not at the controls or acting as PIC.

Perhaps you should look at a new pilot's skill retention over the 2 yr period following his certification.

Statistically, the best time for a new pilot to take a passenger flying is the day after his checkride. He is on top of his game at that point, provided he doesn't decide to push into unknown territory with the pax on board. A yr later, he may have 100 hrs in his logbook, but if he hasn't taken any training during that time, his overall skills are somewhat lower than they were on checkride day.

Oh, airline pilots follow the same pattern. They are very sharp on the day after a PC, and over the time until their next training event, their skills atrophy. The difference is their skills are much higher to begin with, loss of proficiency does not make them dangerous.

[martymayes]

Today we have passenger limits for those with new drivers license. I believe we should do the same with a PP. Its all in the name of saftey. If we want to see better numbers in the forum of saftey we need to change our thinking. Its the fool whom does the same thing but expects different outcomes. If you want different sftey numbers you must also act different.

Actually, "we" do limit what a new pilot can do. It's in the regs and otherwise regulated by the industry.


This all started because someone posted an NTSB report about a man whom just passed his PP, took his children up with a friend and killed them all. not the first time and wont be the last. So tell those young ladies whom died....its ok for a low time pilot to fly family and I bet they would have a different answer then..Its ok....I bet they would run like the wind.

The accident you reference is somewhat more complex than your summary.

[nrpetersen]

I remember an article by the late Len Morgan describing his and Braniff's first revenue flight in their fully loaded 747 out of a hot Dallas non-stop for Honolulu. He was captain, yet the combined crew experience was only a few hours and his 747 experience was well under 10 hrs. He did say that takeoff was etched in his mind and never could be erased.

I can well imagine. What a writer.

[martymayes]

I'm not a pilot and while I have thought of getting my licenese I don't know if it will ever happen.

If I do the math on this I was told once it makes sense to own your own plane if you fly 100 hrs a year or more.

I guess the question is how do you know when you are ready to fly passengers with you when you go flying?

Brian, if you are interested in flying, go take a couple lessons. You don't have to commit to anything, just see if it's something you might like to continue doing.

Deciding to own or rent a plane is way down the road for most folks. When you get there you can look at all the options, renting, partial ownership, flying club, etc. See which one fits you and your situation best.

Unfortuantely, not many CFI's teach their students how to fly passengers. I know it sounds silly, why would a pilot need training on how to fly passengers but aviation could really improve it's image by doing this.

I found the best time for passenger training was during the checkride prep. It did a couple things, first sent a metamessage that the student was going to pass the checkride, second, it gave them the knowledge on how to fly passengers.

When you learn to fly there are a lot of bridges to cross. Don't get wrapped aound the axle looking too far ahead. Relax and enjoy the ride.

[Bill Greenwood]

Brian, flying a gen av airplane, especially a fun EAA type is not about numbers or dollars. Would anyone have a child if you said to yourself that it will add $200,000 over the next decade or so to my cost? Or go waste $100 for green fees to chase a silly little ball around, or spend $150 to go to an NFL game in the company of a bunch of drunks, or if you want to go ski for the day at Vail or Aspen the lift ticket is $120.

This kind of flying is for fun, satisfaction and enjoyment of where you can travel and what you can do around aviation. And for me, I can have a 45 min flight over to Denver, see beautiful scenery and it is stress free ( in good weather) or I can drive 4 or 5 hours, or more if it is max traffic times in congested freeway traffic with other cars a few feet away.
There are a number of ways to enjoy sport aviation, like airshows, at less expense than being a pilot. You don't have to be an artist to visit an art museum. But watching others fly is to me, a little like standing outside the donut shop and watching others eat em.

Flying does take some money and there are many people who can't afford it or at least they convince themselves they can't afford it. You can come up with many reasons on to be a pilot and money is one of them. There are folks driving around in $35,000 SUVs or new pick up trucks that can't afford to fly.

And as for your becoming a pilot, it is never just "ever happen". It is something you do if you want to, and it is not very hard if you really want to. But it is not a passive thing, it is not like catching the flu or a cold, it doesn't just come along and fall on you, any more than getting a college degree does, or learning to play the piano.

As Marty says, maybe you should go try an introductory lesson and see if you like it. And tell em you want a lesson , not just a ride.

[Bob Dingley]

I must admit that this reluctance to carry passengers is a new one on me. Its a question that should be put to an insurance underwriter. Get on the horn with Falcon or Avemco or whoever and tell the rep that you're thinking of getting a plane and ask for a quote. Then ask how much if you had 200 hours? Or an instrument rating? Or had a partner or part owner with 5,000 hours? Or how far along are you in the Wings program? It should give you an idea of how the universe regards your ability to carry passengers.

A club membership would have you rubbing elbows with fellow airmen. Something has to rub off. Also a good place to learn to fly. (I'm a former club president) Maybe even join join an EAA chapter.

What if you eventualy got a PPL and later picked up an add on glider rating? With less than 10 glider hours, when would you finaly carry your first glider passenger? This need to have a thick logbook could get out of control.

I worked for a 135 carrier and recall we hired some low time co-pilots. One only had 240 hours and after training, he was put in the cockpit of a twin turbine carrying 12 passengers. He did just fine as a co-pilot.

Go fly. Bob

[Tlim486]

Some where back at the begining of all this conversation someone said "ADM", currently front and center on the FAA's Wings page, went thru it yesterday and it was lengthy but a good cousre none the less. Understand the Risk's, Set Personal Minimums and stick to it, It is a truely sad that all four people parished, I have personally left a plane, rented a car and drove home. It was a good lesson I learned as a student.

As the saying go's their are old pilots and bold pilots but not many old bold pilots

[WLIU]

You actually only need a Student Pilot Certificate to learn to fly. Taking the written and flight test is optional. Once upon a time I knew a student pilot who had accumulated 400 hours solo time and owned and flew a Pitts S-1C. Flew very well actually. Just had no interest in the exams and/or flying his friends and family. I can only guess that the CFI he worked with was happy to watch this guy fly every 90 days and sign him off.

And since I am fortunate to know and have flown with some individuals in the flight test community, I never buy the "old-bold" old wives tale. "Bold" is a matter of perspective. To too many folks "Bold" is any pilot flying out closer to the edge of the envelope than they do. Bad paradigm. A more a more accurate rule to live by is "There are no old and DUMB pilots". If you spend your days pushing the edges of airplane envelopes, the line from the movie Bull Durham applies. "We play this game with arrogance and fear." You have to be arrogant and have a healthy enough ego to climb into the airplane and fly the plan. And you have to fear F*#% up in front of your peers enough to not do anything dumb like flying onward without a plan when the first plan falls apart.

Go fly. You can sit on the ground and talk about it forever. There is no substitute for time aloft. Go fly.

Merry Christmas,

Wes
N78PS

[Joe Delene]

One of the biggies is the ability(discipline) to deal with wx & know when not to go, or divert. That may come early for some & never for others.

[Frank Giger]

Hmmm, in my case I had about 36 hours total time (ten hours past my SPL) before I took up my first non-pilot passenger.

The problem I had was that my wife and son are absolutely disinterested in aviation. Not scared, just completely unenthused about it. It's a "Frank Thing" they just don't get.

This is unnatural and would not stand - EVERYONE I know has had their wife in their plane at least once.

So I explained carefully with an ernest and straight face that one of the last endorsements I needed for my logbook was an easy one that would require no extra money beyond what it would normally cost me to putt-putt around the sky in a Champ: the Passenger Endorsement. My CFI didn't count because he's, well, a CFI. I guess I could get some random person at the airport to fly with me, but since I fly on weekday mornings the place is usually deserted.

I needed her to fly with me.

Picking a nice day - winds at two, CAVU, etc. - we did the whole talk through the pre-flight, passenger instruction, gentle flight over nice terrain thing for half an hour. "Hey, this is kind of nice," she said.

Then the front that wasn't supposed to show up for four hours came in and the winds went to 14 gusting to 19 (crosswind, natch) and I cut it real short (being no more than ten minutes from the airport was part of my plan). Best. Crosswind. Landing. Ever. One of those you have put into hard memory and can not only see and hear in one's mind but actually smell.

I couldn't whoop at it, of course, since good landings are to be expected by the civilian population, right?

Anyhow, I'm paying for the rental and the wife is asked how she liked it by the usual airport fellows.

"Not bad at all except the last part where we went all around," she replied, referring to some turbulence and my very nice crab/slip to land, "I wasn't going to go up with him at all if he didn't need his passenger endorsement for his logbook."

Silence for a full ten seconds and then the chuckles started up.

Somehow we still remain married.

(on a couple of occasions since then she's actually asked to go up with me - and more than once I told her she couldn't because the weather looked good for me to fly in but would not be fun for someone in the back of a Champ to endure.)

[David Pavlich]

Hmmmmm....that's an interesting story, Frank. I hope that when the day comes that I have my license, my wife will be interested. My current hobby is astronomy and unless I have Saturn or Jupiter in the eyepiece, she has no interest. She does like the pictures that I take, but isn't very interested in the process. We shall see....

David

[David Pavlich]

One of the biggies is the ability(discipline) to deal with wx & know when not to go, or divert. That may come early for some & never for others.

I've thought about this a lot. It seems to me that when a pilot plans a flight, you have alternatives on the way on your tablet or Ipad or whatever is used to put on paper/computer to review your route. Other airports that can become a sort of safe haven instead of running head long into deteriorating conditions. Is this a typical thought pattern? It just seems common sensical to me.

David

[pacerpilot]

Brian, go flying. Get an instructor and do it. You will not regret it. You're already involved in aviation, you might as well make it permanent. After your sure you like it, buy an inexpensive airplane. You'll spend much less money that way and you can fly much more which makes you a better pilot. As for carrying passengers. A Designated Examiner will not pass you on your check ride unless you demonstrate you're ready to do just that. That's what your PPL or SPL is for-that's the only reason a pilots license. You can fly yourself around solo for the rest of your life with only a student pilots cert or your Sport Pilot solo sign off. But, if you want to carry a pax, you'll need to pass your checkride and get that magic ticket. Believe me, when you do pass your checkride you'll waste no time taking your first-very special-passenger up. I had 54 hours in my book when I came home from my check ride. My dad looked at me and said "lets go!"-and we did. We as pilots learn very soon to evaluate ourselves and be realistic about our ability. We're trained to make the right decisions. However, sometimes a pilot makes a tragic mistake. It happens to pilots, boat operators, drivers, everybody. Don't be deterred, life is dangerous, nobody lives through it so get out there and up there!

[martymayes]

GREAT story Frank! lol.

[Anymouse]

I'm not a pilot and while I have thought of getting my licenese I don't know if it will ever happen. In reading the thread about the IL plane crash there are a few comments in there that he didn't have enough hours to be flying passengers. I read one person say 500 hrs and another say 1000 hrs before they fly passengers.

Hogwash!!

There is no reason why a private pilot can't take the checkride in the morning and fly with passengers that afternoon.

For the record, my first passenger after getting my private ticket was two weeks after the checkride; my very next flight.

[pacerpilot]

I agree Mouse. It was maybe two hours after my check ride when I took my dad up! When I used to do my night currency landings he'd go with me. Once I said; "well, it's been a couple months so...", he laughed and told me one of his favorite sayings; "Ah don't worry, ain't nobody ever left one up there yet and I doubt you will". He was an aeronautical engineer, how could I argue with him? Turns out, he was right!

[Brian247028]

Everyone - Thanks for the information. I would like to set a few things straight though. The question I asked was from someone with no experience and just reading another post and a few comments made. It seemed odd to me but having no experience I didn't so figured I would ask.

Cost - Cost for me wouldn't be a concern. Right now I have enough invested in camera equipment that I could have paid for my pilots license and IFR rating. My next lens I want (which is a ways off) is 6k alone. I doubt I will ever have it but two years ago when I told my wife the equipment I wanted she said no way will you ever have that much invested and look where I am today.

Desire - I really like the photography end and to get the license makes it hard to fly and take pictures at the same time. Right now I would rather rely on the skill and experience of another pilot so I can open the window and take pictures. The last time I was in a plane was May 2011 for my yacht shots. Prior to that was early 90's.

Future - Who knows what the future will bring. After I did my May flight I had the bug big time to get my license. At Airventure we take one day to go up and look around. This year I plan on taking off all week. The main reason for this is to get the best weather for photography. I will probably put my name out there for the rideshare since I would love to fly into EAA once. That would be cool. I just wish the rideshare would let you put text in the fields since I am normally very generous when it comes to sharing the cost comapred to others who just want a free ride.

Hope this clears some things up and I never know what is around the next turn.

[Mayhemxpc]

"I just wish the rideshare would let you put text in the fields"

I must be missing something. What does that mean? Hope to see you at AirVenture one of these times. (Black O-2A, parked with the L-Birds in the Warbirds area. Come by and say hello if we are there at the same time.)

[martymayes]

"I just wish the rideshare would let you put text in the fields"

I must be missing something. What does that mean?

Apparently, it means he would like to include the text message "will share pro-rata expenses" or something to that effect.

[Brian247028]

Apparently, it means he would like to include the text message "will share pro-rata expenses" or something to that effect.

Sorry if I wasn't clear but you are correct. I have read a number of times where people are looking for free rides and that isn't my style. Also I have been to AirVenture the past two years. Just one day each time and our favorite part is sitting on the flight line watching the planes take off.

[Frank Giger]

I've thought about this a lot. It seems to me that when a pilot plans a flight, you have alternatives on the way on your tablet or Ipad or whatever is used to put on paper/computer to review your route. Other airports that can become a sort of safe haven instead of running head long into deteriorating conditions. Is this a typical thought pattern? It just seems common sensical to me.

David

David, anyone who paid any sort of attention to their training does exactly this - plans for diversion for every flight.

I use the flexible solar powered static navigational display (paper sectional map) and keep tabs of where I am even on a "local" flight (where one takes off and lands at the same airport) - even on those one may have divert to another airfield for a variety of reasons, usually failing to perform item #1 on the pre-flight, which is "did everyone go potty?"

;)

[David Pavlich]

Thanks, Frank. I like your #1 pre-flight. At age 61, the ole' bladder isn't as supple as it once was. I guess there's the "porta pottie", but they do look just a bit awkward.

David

[nfdlpilot]

Brian,
I would argue that a person that just got his license is more prepared than someone who has had one for a few years. All that training fresh in mind is a good thing. You seem like someone who cares. That will naturally follow in the way you approach flying. I am known as someone who doesn't take much in a very serious manner, until it comes to flying. My passengers who know me, are often surprised by the seriousness I take on in the pre-flight and flight, but it is because I love it so much and want to share it with others, that I take it seriously. I have flow with over 150 different people, and I only have 270 hours of total time in. Enjoy it. Share it. You'll do fine.

[Bill Greenwood]

Certainly you can carry passengers after you become a pilot. And many do and it is fun.
The trouble with the pilot in the accident which prompted this discussion is that he went into marginal and even IMC weather with innocent passengers, and then once there he didn't seem to realize that he was getting into an emergency and most of all he didn't take any positive action to try to land while he still had control of the plane and some alternative airports. Du Page was barely IMC, ceiling at 900 feet which is soft IMC, ( though it may have been raining) and Palwaukee was decent VMC, ceiling 1500 with good visibility underneath. He probably could and should have accepted ATCs offer for vectors to Palwaukee, even getting an IFR clearance if necessary, but he just kept mumbling some nonsensical replies and getting deeper into a problem. Strangely he didn't seem any sense of panic or even urgency on the radio.

If you are going to carry passengers as a low time pilot, what is great is to fly with another pilot if you can, and ABOVE ALL fly in good weather, not marginal or IMC.

[EDGEFLY]

Hmmm, in my case I had about 36 hours total time (ten hours past my SPL) before I took up my first non-pilot passenger.

(on a couple of occasions since then she's actually asked to go up with me - and more than once I told her she couldn't because the weather looked good for me to fly in but would not be fun for someone in the back of a Champ to endure.)

Frank,

A good summary leading up to the carriage of a special passenger. I just couldn't pass your closing statement though. The obvious solution to this dilemma is an 11AC where you could share the "not fun"weather with her and even hold her hand if the bumps were a little rough. She would, of course, have to endure flying in a high speed aircraft like a Chief!!

Edgefly

[Frank Giger]

None of that faddish modern stuff for me!

Side by side passengers, bah. What's next, putting a wheel in front of the mains?

[EDGEFLY]

Frank,
There have been some purportedly knowledgeable people of science who have studied that possibility from the point of view of theoretical Mechanics. Probably won't be much come of it since they don't have any real experience with doing a "Rudder Dance".

TW & CAVU

Dale