Not kicking the family pet - Just asking the Question

[Jim Heffelfinger]

Believe me, I am not trying to kick the family pet here - I think the YE program is terrific and I am proud of the community support.
Over the last 5 years EAA has collected around $12 million toward the YE program. It may be more, as the Gathering of Eagles is just one part of the youth development program. I am going to guess it does not go into the general fund but is ear marked….. I am asking for what?
I do know there are scholarships but most of them are private sponsors - the aviation community is passionate and generous. Thank you.
It’s for the children but where is it going? And what is the plan.

[FlyingRon]

There are scholarships to the academy. I would expect the insurance rider that raises your policy up to a smooth million isn't a freebee for the foundation, there's also some insurance on the volunteers (separate from the pilots). There are some costs in administering the program: publicity, certificates, etc...

[Jim Heffelfinger]

This thread has had lots of reads but only one comment. That leaves me to speculate on the reception. Either it’s a taboo topic or no one knows.

[Ken Mercer]

Jim,

I've responded to your question in another thread, but for the sake of keeping the discussion in one place I'll say it again here.

Reading some of the archived announcements from '92 and '93 introducing the Young Eagles program you can see that it arose out of members' stated desire to bring more young people into aviation. It's pretty clear that the original intent was to expose a youngster to general aviation, not necessarily to convert them into pilots.

It may just be my impression, but it seems like there's been some "mission creep", and somewhere along the way it became about quantity vs. quality. Fundraising for the program even seems to have followed that path in that everyone wants to give more and more, but we're not really sure for what.

Now would be a good time to re-assess where we want to go with the program, and re-define what we expect and want to get out of it as an organization especially in light of the new Eagles program. I've been a chapter coordinator for eight years and I'm sure that there are many, like me, that have some strong opinions about how it can "work", and about its value not only to the Young Eagles, but also to participating pilots, chapters, and our local communities. I think it would be great if we could be a part of the internal planning and discussions about the future of Young Eagles and the Eagles programs.

Ken

[Brian O'Lena]

Jim, you’re not kicking the pet but asking a good question. While the Gathering of Eagles does provide what sounds like a significant sum of money for our youth programs, the number reported is gross not "net" and the cost to put on the event is extremely high. The cost to fund the Young Eagles program is increasing each year as insurance, printing, and postage cost rise. Thousands of wonderful EAA volunteers flew over 77,000 Young Eagles last year and we provided insurance and printed materials as well as staff support to ensure the programs success. This is in addition to the nearly $300,000 in youth scholarships offered annually.

[Bill Greenwood]

Yes, I would also like to know about the financial details of the Young Eagle program.
Two of you say donations total $12 million, and scholarships are $1.5 million, ( that is 5 years at $300,000). Where has the other $10.5 million gone?
Brian says printing costs are high, and there is insurance costs? It doesn't sound like that should be anywhere near $10.5 million?

As for insurance, the pilots furnish their own plane and their own insurance and fuel, donated at no cost to EAA or the young people being flown. If EAA insurance is on top of that, like for the event itself, it doesn't seem like that insurance would be costly at all. I don't know if there has even been a claim against EAA or one of the volunteer pilots as the program has been accident free or almost so, thus the rates charged must be low?

[Eric Page]

What does one Eagle or Young Eagle cost EAA?

[Brian O'Lena]

A significant element of the Young Eagles program is the insurance that protects you as a volunteer while you participate. EAA has arranged comprehensive insurance for all aspects of the Young Eagles Program, all without any premium charge to volunteers. If you purchase insurance with at least a $100,000 per passenger seat limit, EAA provides an additional $1,000,000 excess umbrella policy to you while you are flying Young Eagles. This coverage is provided at no cost to the pilot. In addition, chapters are insured while hosting a Young Eagles rally. The fact we are able to insure thousands pilots who have a wide variety of flight hours and experience flying experimental, LSA and certified aircraft is a testament to the safety of the program, however this comes at a significant premium each year.
.

[Bill Greenwood]

Brian, as I asked in my post above, if there is $10.5 million of donations to cover costs of insurance and printing, how much are these costs and if there is revenue above these costs, how much and what happens to it?

Has there ever been an accident in Young Eagles, and has there ever been an insurance claim re this? It seems I recall that the first million kids were flown without an accident, but there may have been one in the next half million flights? Perhaps near Colorado Springs if I am remembering correctly?

And are EAA member pilots automatically covered re insurance, or is there some registration necessary? I have done a few dozen rides and don't recall ever registering.
It would be great if coverage is automatic as the last thing one needs when trying to do one of these events is more paperwork and red tape. The Cub or Boy Scouts is a good example of an organization that puts so many barriers of red tape that most pilots won't deal with it. Here we just flew all the scout kids, but did not call it a official scout function.

[FlyingRon]

There has been one fatal crash, killing the pilot and two kids. I don't know if the EAA sustained any claims on that one.
I would suspect there were other accidents. I had an engine failure flying young eagles, but nobody got hurt (other than my wallet with regard to the engine). I got a nice letter from the YE office thanking me for not killing any young eagles (not exactly how it was worded, but that was the sentiment). Oddly enough two of the sets of three parents waited around while I dealt with the state police, etc... to thank me. One parent bundled their kids off and left (though I did not ever hear anything further over the incident).

[Jim Heffelfinger]

Okay we are getting somewhere.
So the Gathering event is expensive.
20% expensive or 30% expensive?
Does Ford get in kind value for their gift?
Insurance – okay. I get that. And the umbrella cost is?
Scholarships – 300K. I believe that most years that only a portion is claimed. And aren’t some of those funds privately sponsored? Or all out of the YE fund?
Administration costs – 100K a year?
Printing - $25K Graphic artist?
Infrastructure – website, video production and ???
Local Chapter costs – all covered by the chapter
I am assuming that the YE Chair(s) are compensated. ? $
How is the Eagle program going to be differently funded?

[RV8505]

Okay we are getting somewhere.
So the Gathering event is expensive.
20% expensive or 30% expensive?
Does Ford get in kind value for their gift?
Insurance – okay. I get that. And the umbrella cost is?
Scholarships – 300K. I believe that most years that only a portion is claimed. And aren’t some of those funds privately sponsored? Or all out of the YE fund?
Administration costs – 100K a year?
Printing - $25K Graphic artist?
Infrastructure – website, video production and ???
Local Chapter costs – all covered by the chapter
I am assuming that the YE Chair(s) are compensated. ? $
How is the Eagle program going to be differently funded?


So what table were you sitting at durning the gathering?

[Jim Heffelfinger]

Great Question. My assessment listed above was for the whole YE annual program. I do know they do the AirAcademy which is no where near break even.
I am afraid my my national service stipend for AmeriCorps would not even get me a bidding paddle.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

There have been lots of comments on other threads about transparency ... Maybe we should take one area at a time...

[RV8505]

There have been lots of comments on other threads about transparency ... Maybe we should take one area at a time...

I'm Sorry, I naturally just assumed from your line of questioning that you were involved as a big EAA contributor checking on the whereabouts of your donation.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

RE Rods compensation plan. Truly off topic......... move to another thread.
Don't hijack my inquiry to finding out the plan for the YE support funds.
I am a member of EAA and how/where funds are allocated is a legitimate question.
YE fund raising is a significant effort at all levels of EAA.

[Hal Bryan]

RE Rods compensation plan. Truly off topic......... move to another thread.

Done: http://eaaforums.org/showthread.php?2651-EAA-Finances-(Split-from-YE-Thread)

[Brian O'Lena]

RE Rods compensation plan. Truly off topic......... move to another thread.
Don't hijack my inquiry to finding out the plan for the YE support funds.
I am a member of EAA and how/where funds are allocated is a illegitimate question.
YE fund raising is a significant effort at all levels of EAA.


The Gathering net proceeds are used for ALL EAA Youth Education programs including:
Young Eagles
Air Academy
Museum youth programming
Scholarships –non endowed
Young Eagle Credits – for Chapter support of YE programs and Air Academy scholarships
These programs all have Insurance, materials, postage, overhead, staffing, promotion and marketing cost associated with each area.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

What does one Eagle or Young Eagle cost EAA?

Great Question Eric ! That's an easy number to digest but I bet it's a hard number to create. In fact it may be impossible to extract the full cost per YE as there has to be many budget crossovers with in an organization as large as EAA . Brian has posted a number of replies, and I thank him for his efforts, about where the money goes but has not illuminated the $$ per activity. I have no doubt that revenue streams and budgets are on everyone's plate. If Rod is the business guy I think he is, he will be looking at ROI in every budget. Even the "family pet".

[Jim Heffelfinger]

Well, it's over 3,000 reads and although I got some vague answers to my question much remains "behind the curtain". Perhaps just asking the question and having it read is success enough.
JIm

[FlyingRon]

Well, the question is what costs do you apportion to a "YE passenger carried" and how much of it is things like scholarship and how much of the foundation overhead you apportion to belonging to YE. Frankly, if you make wild guess that they fly 80,000 YE a year (the YE site says 1.6M since 1992), and divide that into the overall foundation annual (2011) budget of 2.6 Million, it works out to $32/child flown. If you're willing to realize the foundation does other things (like the museum, other educational actiivities, etc...) it's going to be less.

[HHP123]

Thank you gentlemen,
As a new member I found this thread very interesting and informative.

[Elissa Lines]

Jeff, I appreciate your comments, questions, and the opportunity to provide better understanding. There are several topics mixed into your comments. Might be easier to take the Gathering first. The costs to produce the Gathering of Eagles fall below the national average of 30% - running about $450,000 to provide a unique experience to nearly 1100 people. The Allocation Plan of the remaining $2.1 million includes $1.3 million to Young Eagles Flight Plan (First Flight, Next Step, Flight Awards, Insurance, Promotion, website, newsletters, certificates, Student Membership - currently, over 15,000 youth have been given free EAA membership, Young Eagles Credits of $150,000, IT support, outreach and more with the remaining $800,000 allocated to Museum Youth Education, supporting Air Academy, Scholarship initiatives, WomenSoar, AirVenture Museum programming/exhibits/web/Space Week, Flight Link and more. The Gathering is a critical part of our fund raising goals. I'd be happy to talk with you further if you have additional questions.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

Thank you Elissa Lines for your candid response to the Gathering of Eagles event. The costs of fund raising needed for such a high profile event is considerable. Right at $400/pp. Since EAA owns the building venue fees are quite limited, Cessna is title sponsor and most likely pays for the food, The 3 Painters fee is commonly either covered or near covered by the sale of the art they create.
I also appreciate the information on dispersal of funds for the YE/Youth programs that support the next generation of aviators
Since the original mission of YE has had considerable creep in the last 20 years, has there been a revised mission and five year plan for the program and how the Eagles program will interlace with its mission? I have not seen it in print anywhere.
Finally – I get Jeff a lot. Seems as though the Jim and Heffelfinger blurr together quite commonly.
Thank you again
Jim Heffelfinger
VP C52 Sacramento, CA