Threat from eaa

[Bill Greenwood]

Over the last months I have received renewal notices from EAA headquarters, each more and more persistent.
The last one in July, says, "unless we hear from you in the next twenty days, your connection to the EAA community will end."
That is an exact quote, I didn't make it up or alter the wording.
I know he didn't write it, but it has Rod Hightower's signature at the bottom so I assume he approved it and is responsible for the content and wording.

Three points I'd like to make, Rod:
1 I was an EAA member long before I ever heard of you or you were appointed president.
2 Threats to anyone are just not good manners and are at best counterproductive. I was considering upgrading my membership to a life one, thanks for helping me decide to save the money.
3 Feel free to keep your word and not contact me again. However you will not be the one to decide if and when I end my connection to EAA.

I have been an EAA member for 30 years since shortly after I got my pilot's license.
I have attended Oshkosh each year since 1984, and quite a few years also went to Sun N Fun. Often I brought a display aircraft, sometimes two. I have participated in the Young Eagles ride program, at Oshkosh and other places. I have bought rides on the EAA B-17 before they moved it out of Oshkosh, and a number of times on the EAA trimotor as well as helicopters.I have given forums several times at both Oshkosh and Lakeland on mountain flying that seemed to be well received. I have done a winter course at the musuem. I have been a partner in building one homebuilt and owned another.
I make it a point, or at least I have in the past, to try to get others involved in EAA and Airventure.
My last membership was current through the end of July.
I have renewed my membership each of the last years on the first day of Airventure, just as I did this year. I don't recall any threats before and don't need them now.

I have read other's postings on line as to how they feel EAA has taken a new direction since Paul and Tom are not the daily mangers. Many people feel that new direction is not positive. At first I didn't agree with them ,I have always thought EAA was well run, and the fun side of aviation, but I see some of the other side now.

The good news is that I probably wasn't a prospective buyer for a chalet at Airventure anyway.

Regretfully

Bill Greenwood

[KCPilot]

I don't see what the problem is.... if your membership had lapsed, wouldn't, in fact, your "connection to the EAA community" have ended?

[Floatsflyer]

Give 'em hell Bill. Renewal notices for any organization seeking to retain its members should be warm and fuzzy reflecting a commitment to strong customer/membership relations. The notice you received from EAA sounds like it came from the Cable company and we all know how we feel about them. Hightower and EAA should be ashamed of treating members in such a callous and thoughtless manner. It sucks big time!

[Bill Berson]

I think the EAA connection to the EAA community has ended.

[Mike M]

I think the EAA connection to the EAA community has ended.

good one!

[danielfindling]

I don't get it. How different is the marketing campaign from "hurry up and save" or "after Monday the deal is gone" or (fill in the blank). A call to action with a sense of urgency is a normal marketing mechanism. I think it is a stretch to call it a threat. I remember recieving similar letters from EAA before Hightower add AOPA (ok, AOPA marketing borders on harassment) or any other organization that relies on member dues for its existence. . .I agree with the questions posed by others. Instead of ^*%##, how can EAA be improved? Maybe your first suggestion should be a more friendly marketing campaign.Daniel

[Anymouse]

People actually read that crap???


BTW... I bet if you DID become a lifetime member, the mailings pleading you to renew would stop. I haven't gotten a renewal notice in years.

[Bill Greenwood]

I think it is also a matter of perception. I and many others may think of ourselves as members of EAA, ,maybe even friends of EAA; while to those at the top looking down we are in fact just customers,and in my case a small customer, not likely to be buying any TBMs.

[Bill Greenwood]

"Anymouse", I am already a lifetime member, of at least two other organizations, including CAF.

And a pleading is different than a threat..

[Anymouse]

I still have a hard time figuring out the threat part.


(Lifetime: EAA, AOPA, NAA, USPA)

[hkyplr18]

I wonder what the EAA spends on renewal notices every year... Mine expired in July. I did not renew and don't plan to renew until things change. I probably recieved 8-10 renewal notices in the mail starting around Febuary.

[BBARTONB]

Bill;as bad as I hate to say this,we{members}might as well get use to it.You have to remember,this is the "new"EAA.As I have been told on other forum pages,get use to it,things change.And I might add, not always for the better.

[Bill Greenwood]

As I wrote, I renew every year, in person, when I go to Oshkosh. Airventure is one of the two events that I plan for all year, but last night was the first time in almost 30 years that I started to think about maybe doing without Airventure. So many of the good guys that I have known there have passed away now anyway,

[Greg S]

You're not alone Bill. I've been a member for over 30 years. We have camped at OSH for 10 days for about 25 years. 2 years ago we camped for 3 days. Last year we drove in for 1 day. This year we stayed home. The carnival that is Oshkosh (complete with ferris wheel this year I see) just was talking a turn in a direction I wasn't comfortable with. All about the dollar. Bigger, better. Yeah, right. This year ended and they wasted no time in saying how much bigger it will be next year. And the "bigger" will mean the need for more money. $4 water maybe? I enjoyed it more with the old "metros", the down home atmosphere. Now the concern is what big name entertainment will be there. Where will the elephant ear and cotton candy stands be located? No thanks. Like some have said on this forum - if you don't like it, don't come. Well, I'll take that advise. Too bad the mismanagement of the EAA Convention at Oshkosh (sorry, you can keep your "Airventure") will probably impact the other good things about the EAA and the people that make it unique. They pretty much ran the ultralights off, what's next - homebuilts - to make way for the "affordable" $100,000+ LSA's? Sorry Rod, I'm keeping my $40. Unless THAT has already gone up.

[WeaverJ3Cub]

Explain to me again what's "threatening" about a renewal notice stating that you won't be a member anymore if you don't renew? How is that not true?

And having worked a little in direct mail, you have to send tons of these notices to get people's attention. Just ignore them. If it bothers you, isn't that your fault? Of course they want you to renew.

Boy am I getting sick of the anti-EAA sentiment all over the boards here. I respect you, Bill, but you have to realize that organizations change over time. If you and others are looking for an association that caters solely to wood and fabric scratch builders and the "good 'ol days," then go find another world. Honestly. Aviation is bigger than all that. So is AirVenture. Did you expect EAA to ignore the Lancair builders? What about Vintage, I haven't heard anyone complaining that those aren't homebuilts....

If you hate the EAA that much, then just ignore them, save yourself the trouble, and go find or start another organization. Helpful comments/criticism and even complaints are fine, but this is getting out of hand, don't you guys think?

[Marc_CYBW]

I wholeheartedly agree with WeaverJ3Cub.
Time to move on.

Marc

[Bill Greenwood]

Weaver, don't twist my words.
I have never built a tube and fabric airplane, though I do own a Cub, a real one not a replica, and owned a Rose Parakeet homebuilt. I have been a minor partner in a Starlite homebuilt.
I fully agree that there is more to EAA than the Pitenpol days, I embrace all that, up to a point.Paul and EAA were always about more than that, ie his P-51 and Toms acro career.
My objection on this topic is to the way the marketing was handled and specifically the wording, ie the threat, just as I gave the exact wording on my first post.

If you worked in marketing, and most of what you do is to send out the same notice over and over then you are part of the problem. Why do you think people ignore so much of the junk mail? I don't even open a lot of mine, it goes straight in the garbage.

In college I did take a break from girls, football, bar b q, and water skiing, long enough to make an A in marketing which I sorely needed to graduate.
One big fundamental of marketing is to know your audience. Obviously despite my 30 years with EAA , I am nothing more than a potential customer to them.
Another principal is the simple one that you don't turn you back on your team. The center doesn't tell the quarterback, do this or I am not going to hike the ball to you anymore.
And an old time southern saying , "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar", might as well be the new saying, "More wag, less bark".

And by the way Weaver, your view is probably distorted by sitting behind that Cessna prop that someone mistakenly slapped on your Cub.

[RV8505]

Explain to me again what's "threatening" about a renewal notice stating that you won't be a member anymore if you don't renew? How is that not true?

And having worked a little in direct mail, you have to send tons of these notices to get people's attention. Just ignore them. If it bothers you, isn't that your fault? Of course they want you to renew.

Boy am I getting sick of the anti-EAA sentiment all over the boards here. I respect you, Bill, but you have to realize that organizations change over time. If you and others are looking for an association that caters solely to wood and fabric scratch builders and the "good 'ol days," then go find another world. Honestly. Aviation is bigger than all that. So is AirVenture. Did you expect EAA to ignore the Lancair builders? What about Vintage, I haven't heard anyone complaining that those aren't homebuilts....

If you hate the EAA that much, then just ignore them, save yourself the trouble, and go find or start another organization. Helpful comments/criticism and even complaints are fine, but this is getting out of hand, don't you guys think?

Spot on Mr, Weaver!

[Aaron Novak]

Boy am I getting sick of the anti-EAA sentiment all over the boards here. I respect you, Bill, but you have to realize that organizations change over time. If you and others are looking for an association that caters solely to wood and fabric scratch builders and the "good 'ol days," then go find another world. Honestly. Aviation is bigger than all that. So is AirVenture. Did you expect EAA to ignore the Lancair builders? What about Vintage, I haven't heard anyone complaining that those aren't homebuilts....

If you hate the EAA that much, then just ignore them, save yourself the trouble, and go find or start another organization. Helpful comments/criticism and even complaints are fine, but this is getting out of hand, don't you guys think?

On the flip side, one could ask why the people that had little to no interest in the type of aviation that the EAA was built on, did not start their own organization instead of shifting the direction of an established one.

[rawheels]

I can understand why you see it as a threat. For those who have been in an EAA group for a long time, the "EAA community" are your friends from your local chapter and probably those you see every year at Oshkosh. So, the letter could be read as "You better renew or we'll cut you off from your friends".

It probably makes a difference on what your definition of a community is; Some view their community as a local EAA chapter, others that aren't so involved in a local chapter (or are used to the word being used to describe an online collection of people) could view the community as the webinars, forums, and other "services". My guess is that the person who wrote this form letter was thinking of the latter. It might not have even crossed their minds that someone could be offened by it, because to them it just says that unless you renew, you won't get to use their services anymore. Just a statement, not a threat. They probably just think community sounds nicer than services.

It is a good idea to bring it up, but it might have been better to just call up the EAA and let them know how you took it. Unfortunately, with 160,000+ members (on top of cuts in the marketing division of EAA) they can't write a custom letter to each person. Your input could help them to present themselves better in the standard form letters that are sent out in the future.

Give them the benefit of the doubt every once in a while.

[Zack Baughman]

I can understand why you see it as a threat. For those who have been in an EAA group for a long time, the "EAA community" are your friends from your local chapter and probably those you see every year at Oshkosh. So, the letter could be read as "You better renew or we'll cut you off from your friends".

It is a good idea to bring it up, but it might have been better to just call up the EAA and let them know how you took it. Unfortunately, with 160,000+ members (on top of cuts in the marketing division of EAA) they can't write a custom letter to each person. Your input could help them to present themselves better in the standard form letters that are sent out in the future.

Give them the benefit of the doubt every once in a while.

Well said! Could the notice have been worded better? Probably. But I can assure you Bill and everyone else that the last thing we (EAA) wants to do is drive away the lifeblood of the organization - you the members. As a staff member, I certainly appreciate posts like this that bring problems and potential problems to our attention, but as Hal alluded to in his recent sticky post, some of the criticism of the organization here on the forums (which isn't at all a bad thing in an of itself) is resulting in some pretty negative posts towards one another, which IS a bad thing.

In any case, it might be best to let this thread rest for now. Points from both sides of the fence have been made and we (EAA) are aware of the situation.

Cheers,

Zack

[WeaverJ3Cub]

On the flip side, one could ask why the people that had little to no interest in the type of aviation that the EAA was built on, did not start their own organization instead of shifting the direction of an established one.

A very valid point, Aaron. However I would make one minor quibble, which is to say that an organization more or less has to allow itself to be changed. That said, yes, EAA and really any organization is under pressure to "conform," in EAA's case, to the larger GA world. Good point.


Bill, perhaps I wasn't clear, and if so, I apologize. I don't mean to represent you as solely a wood and fabric builder or anything like that...I was merely using that as an example. But I think that you understand what I'm getting at.

[Aaron Novak]

A very valid point, Aaron. However I would make one minor quibble, which is to say that an organization more or less has to allow itself to be changed. That said, yes, EAA and really any organization is under pressure to "conform," in EAA's case, to the larger GA world. Good point.


Bill, perhaps I wasn't clear, and if so, I apologize. I don't mean to represent you as solely a wood and fabric builder or anything like that...I was merely using that as an example. But I think that you understand what I'm getting at.

Does it have to change? It shouldnt unless the goals of the organization demand it ( I.E. constant growth ).Say someone starts a J3 club ( as if there isnt a glut of them :) ), and calls it the "cub club". They start off as a group of focused individuals, sharing a common particular interest withing a broad spectrum interest (flying). They start an annual convention, centered around....cubs, cub forums, cub vendors, cub shirts, etc etc etc, but not wanting to exclude the members that also fly other airplanes, they are welcomed as well and alowed to participate. The cub club convention (CCC) is a great financial asset to the cub club, making it money to further the original cause for the group. However there are a limited number of cub people...so lets take the focus away from cubs and turn it to anything fabric covered, drawing a bigger membership, more money etc. Now with more membership not being as cub focused, the agenda starts changing ( call it dillution ). The cycle continues until cubs ( being the small and shallow pocketed group ) are pushed off into the weeds of both the annual convention ( now called planestock USA ) and as the focus of the club. The cub guys, feeling like they have had their club taken from them, get angry with the new leadership, or leave. Non cub people cant understand why, as cubs are not why they joined the cub club, and tell the " die hards" to just accept change. As soon as you stray from the plans of an original goal, be it running a club or buliding an airplane, this self perpetuating cycle seems to just make a mess of things thats usually only fixed by starting over.

[Bill Greenwood]

I thought about phoning the EAA membership office, and if I don't get my new membership card in the mail soon, I may call. But I don't want a clerk to feel like I am addressing a problem to them that they didn't cause. Whenever I have called EAA they have always been very nice. I wouldn't be surprised if EAA had turned their marketing over to some New York firm.Maybe folks in the big city get used to being pushed, but I've never liked it.
It might be my Texas background. A long time ago, 176 years ago a loud mouth big shot named Santa Anna came to Texas telling people what they had to do, and it did not end well for him.
I guess I can be a bit stubborn, but I spent some time on a ranch as a kid, and I can tell you for sure, that it is a lot easier to lead a horse somewhere than it is to push them.
I just looked at the badge in the pocket of the shirt that I was wearing at Oshkosh when I re
registered on Sun. the 22nd this year, (by the way when my membership still had a week to run.)
It says "Proud Member, EAA".
That's how I felt, on that day anyway.

[Mike Switzer]

Good post Aaron.

[EDGEFLY]

Bill,

I have often thought your posts were a bit to strong in one sense or another but, having just gone through the same "threat" sequence as you, I really believe that your point is correct. I renewed, but certainly not because of the imbecilic paper which the organization doused on me but because I wanted to. If there was ever a time Mr. Hightower should pay find time to address a position made in the forums, this is it. Speak up Rod, don't hide out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chad Jensen]

I thought about phoning the EAA membership office, and if I don't get my new membership card in the mail soon, I may call. But I don't want a clerk to feel like I am addressing a problem to them that they didn't cause. Whenever I have called EAA they have always been very nice. I wouldn't be surprised if EAA had turned their marketing over to some New York firm.Bill, I would invite you to call member services if you need ANYTHING. Our member services department has been transformed in to a member consierge service and they will take care of you. Great people in there. And marketing has not been turned over to a New York firm...it's all done right outside my office.

[s10sakota]

Aaron your post is the best one I've ever read on this forum! Nice!!

[Bill Greenwood]

Today is the 10 th and I have not received the new membership card since I renewed on the 22nd, not that I really need it right away. But just out of curiosity I phoned EAA member services and spoke to a "Tom" who was very polite. He said it often takes 2 to 4 weeks to process the renewals and that there were quite a few who like me renew every year at the convention.

[dewi8095]

Aaron your post is the best one I've ever read on this forum! Nice!!

I second this. A well stated analogy.

Don

[Floatsflyer]

Aaron:

I have a challenge for you borne out of nothing more than personal desire and out-of-the-box self interest. I'd like you to take your well-crafted analogy and real world apply it to formally proposing that The Ninety-Nines accept male membership. If you could make the attempt you will have cemented your rock star status here with me.

[NAA551WB]

Boy am I getting sick of the anti-EAA sentiment all over the boards here. I respect you, Bill, but you have to realize that organizations change over time. If you and others are looking for an association that caters solely to wood and fabric scratch builders and the "good 'ol days," then go find another world. Honestly. Aviation is bigger than all that. So is AirVenture. Did you expect EAA to ignore the Lancair builders? What about Vintage, I haven't heard anyone complaining that those aren't homebuilts....

If you hate the EAA that much, then just ignore them, save yourself the trouble, and go find or start another organization. Helpful comments/criticism and even complaints are fine, but this is getting out of hand, don't you guys think?

Typical "fanboy" response right there. lol.

[Aaron Novak]

Aaron:

I have a challenge for you borne out of nothing more than personal desire and out-of-the-box self interest. I'd like you to take your well-crafted analogy and real world apply it to formally proposing that The Ninety-Nines accept male membership. If you could make the attempt you will have cemented your rock star status here with me.

Haha no thanks, why would I want to ruin a good thing? They are an excellent example of an organization that "stayed on task" and did not change their focus for the sake of growth, but instead grew the organization by spreading interest in it and getting more women involved in aviation. For an organization much older than the EAA, my hats are off to them.
-Aaron

[Floatsflyer]

Haha no thanks, why would I want to ruin a good thing? They are an excellent example of an organization that "stayed on task" and did not change their focus for the sake of growth, but instead grew the organization by spreading interest in it and getting more women involved in aviation. For an organization much older than the EAA, my hats are off to them.
-Aaron


:)Spot on Aaron! This is why women should rule the world. There would be far less wars, less conflict, less aggression, more nurturing, more conciliation, far more intelligence and common sense, less testosterone filled nonsense and much much more harmony and love. "Kumba ya" my fellow advocates.

Still......it would be great to be able to join them.

[Mattmutz2]

I let my membership lapse and got renewal notices for 4 years until I asked them to please stop. If you know me, you'll appreciate that irony. While on staff for EAA I was tasked with pulling your renewal notices out of the database. It may have changed, but as of February 2008 you got 14 per year, email and paper. Join EAA, get 12 magazines and 14 renewal notices.

[WingsAloft]

Aaron and my fellow CCC members: I hate to say this, but I think it's time to start another CCC.

[Hal Bryan]

With respect to the number of renewal notices, I talked to Chris, our Membership Marketing Coordinator, and this is the summary she provided for me:

Here is our current renewal schedule:


1. Email Renewal #1 (actually isn’t a renewal, but encourages AutoPilot) – 4.5 mo from expire
2. Mailed Renewal #1 - 4 mo from expire
3. Mailed Renewal #2 – 3 mo from expire
4. Mailed Renewal #3 - 2 mo from expire
5. Mailed Renewal #4 – 1 mo from expire
6. Email Renewal #2 – 20 days from expire
7. Mailed Renewal #5 – At expire (End of month, for instance August 30th for August expires)
8. Email Renewal #3 – Just prior to grace period cut-off (For instance, August expires are considered lapsed the 7th of September)
9. Mailed Renewal #6 – 1 mo after expire
10. Phone call – 2 mo after expire


Follow-up schedule:


Once the person has lapsed; two months after the phone call …Expired members will receive an invitation 4 times a year until and unless they let us know they prefer not to receive the invites anymore.

[malexander]

I'll never be threatened..........I'm a Lifetime member..........Hey, just a thought here, become a lifetime member & you'll NEVER get another threatening renewal notice.

[WeaverJ3Cub]

With respect to the number of renewal notices, I talked to Chris, our Membership Marketing Coordinator, and this is the summary she provided for me:

Here is our current renewal schedule:


1. Email Renewal #1 (actually isn’t a renewal, but encourages AutoPilot) – 4.5 mo from expire
2. Mailed Renewal #1 - 4 mo from expire
3. Mailed Renewal #2 – 3 mo from expire
4. Mailed Renewal #3 - 2 mo from expire
5. Mailed Renewal #4 – 1 mo from expire
6. Email Renewal #2 – 20 days from expire
7. Mailed Renewal #5 – At expire (End of month, for instance August 30th for August expires)
8. Email Renewal #3 – Just prior to grace period cut-off (For instance, August expires are considered lapsed the 7th of September)
9. Mailed Renewal #6 – 1 mo after expire
10. Phone call – 2 mo after expire


Follow-up schedule:


Once the person has lapsed; two months after the phone call …Expired members will receive an invitation 4 times a year until and unless they let us know they prefer not to receive the invites anymore.

Thanks Hal. Looks pretty reasonable to me.

[Bill Greenwood]

When someone sends me a renewal notice 4 !/2 months before my membership expires, I and most people are going to toss it in the trash. If it is at d day minus 4 1/2 months, that means my membership still has 38% of its time still good, still to run.
And in my original post on this topic ,it is not the frequency of notices that I mostly objected to, rather it was the language, with the threat in the notice that I found when I returned home from Oshkosh.

And Weaver. may I have your home address? I know of some nice folks that wear clean white dress shirts and will come to your door with a fascinating little booklet, (Watchtower) that you may have for free. I'd love to put you on their mailing and drop in list. And if you really like junk mail, send a check to your favorite political candidate, or charity and I promise you will never want for lack of mail again.

Sounds "pretty reasonable to me."

[malexander]

And Weaver. may I have your home address? I know of some nice folks that wear clean white dress shirts and will come to your door with a fascinating little booklet, (Watchtower) that you may have for free. I'd love to put you on their mailing and drop in list. And if you really like junk mail, send a check to your favorite political candidate, or charity and I promise you will never want for lack of mail again.

Sounds "pretty reasonable to me."



I pack those return envelopes, that the credit card people send, with all kinds of junk mail, and send it back to them. Ads from other cc's, life memberships to whatever, and anything else I can find, even the comics from the newspaper. Someone's got to keep the post office in business.

[Lindberg]

With respect to the number of renewal notices, I talked to Chris, our Membership Marketing Coordinator, and this is the summary she provided for me:

Here is our current renewal schedule:


1. Email Renewal #1 (actually isn’t a renewal, but encourages AutoPilot) – 4.5 mo from expire
2. Mailed Renewal #1 - 4 mo from expire
3. Mailed Renewal #2 – 3 mo from expire
4. Mailed Renewal #3 - 2 mo from expire
5. Mailed Renewal #4 – 1 mo from expire
6. Email Renewal #2 – 20 days from expire
7. Mailed Renewal #5 – At expire (End of month, for instance August 30th for August expires)
8. Email Renewal #3 – Just prior to grace period cut-off (For instance, August expires are considered lapsed the 7th of September)
9. Mailed Renewal #6 – 1 mo after expire
10. Phone call – 2 mo after expire


Follow-up schedule:


Once the person has lapsed; two months after the phone call …Expired members will receive an invitation 4 times a year until and unless they let us know they prefer not to receive the invites anymore.

You forgot about number 11: Julio and Vito show up at your door and you expire.

[Floatsflyer]

LOL Lindberg! Actually, Julio and Vito first make you an offer you can't refuse.

[Lindberg]

LOL Lindberg! Actually, Julio and Vito first make you an offer you can't refuse.

Oops! Your correct, Floatsflyer. You expire at number 12. I'm always safe till after AirVenture. If I get banned or escorted out of there then I won't have wasted my 40 bucks membership dues and at my age a lifetime membership is out of the question.

[anngray]

agree with Bill. Now it is all about money. My take is that if they wish to be a profit making company, STOP charging dues and pretending they are membership oriented which is no longer the case. They they could be like NASCAR. All the chalets and special viewing, etc. make me sick. I think of precious Steve Wittman and what he would think. The problem is everyone in membership (I was told) is a new hire. The people who "got it" are gone to greener pastures (I hope.)

[Joe LaMantia]

This my my first "venture" into this forum just fishing around here since it's cold and snowy in western ohio today. I haven't been to "AirVenture" in about 3 years mainly due to travel timing. Having stumbled onto this thread I have to say I can relate to Bills' frustration as well as the comments in opposition. We do have a very large organization spread around the world, and membership retention should be a concern at EAA HQ. While those renewal notices are a pain they are certainly not unique to EAA. I've been a member for 22 years and AOPA for 20 years this month. AOPA sends lots of notices which I ignore, this year I sent my renewal on Oct. 9th, I got a big envelope from them a few days ago it contained a nice baseball cap and a little card thanking me for my membership. Still waiting for my actual plastic membership card, but my old one is good thru Oct 31st! I'm sure they'll get around to sending me a new one. If you subscribe to magazines other then aviation related ones you'll get these early "warnings" as well. It's what happens with large organizations. Sport Aviation if my memory serves me was run out of Paul's basement and Audrey did the "printing", I'm guessing that system worked well when the membership lived around Milwaukee county. Things get complicated and less personal when organizations get big, and 160K members is pretty big.

Joe
:cool:

[Wilfred]

I used to subscribe to Flight Guide, those little 3-ring binders with airport diagrams and info, and finally quit after they would send renewal notices up to 8-months before the end of the subscription and mark the notice DUE NOW !

I no longer send them any money.

[anngray]

For those of you who get too many renewal notices: Join Vintage. I dropped my Vintage membership about 5 years ago and just this week got my very first "would you rejoin? we have saved your number" message. Made me laugh.

[Joe LaMantia]

You'd think some person at "Vintage" would be looking at dates and previous messages and see the problem. This is more of the same, a computer program that just follows the instructions. Too many of these "customer service" programs are put together by IT people who review the program from a technical perspective. If they brought in some actual "customers" during the test phase, they would get some feed back on what works and what sucks!

Joe
:rollseyes:

[Lindberg]

More junk mail subsidized by the taxpayer. BTY: Don't forget to vote and remember this time we REALLY need change!

[anngray]

Can't even have a discussion about EAA without someone deciding his/her political views matter to any of us and that we appreciate a forum being used this way.

[Lindberg]

Can't even have a discussion about EAA without someone deciding his/her political views matter to any of us and that we appreciate a forum being used this way.

Telling people to vote is not political, madam. I suggested no political party, person or philosophy. How you interpret things is your problem and not mine. Bombs away!

[Bill Greenwood]

To solve overcrowding at the polls, voting will be done a little differently this year, ie in alphabetical order.

If you are voting for a candidate whose last name begins with an O, you go to the polls on Tue. the 6th.
If your candidate has a last name beginning with an R, you go Wed. the 7th, and lines should be shorter, less waiting.

[RV8505]

To solve overcrowding at the polls, voting will be done a little differently this year, ie in alphabetical order.

If you are voting for a candidate whose last name begins with an O, you go to the polls on Tue. the 6th.
If your candidate has a last name beginning with an R, you go Wed. the 7th, and lines should be shorter, less waiting.


My, how ignoble! Regardless of political persuasion, droll political truck stop satire is always in bad taste. As Aviators we are a little better than that.

[Lindberg]

My, how ignoble! Regardless of political persuasion, droll political truck stop satire is always in bad taste. As Aviators we are a little better than that.

Ignoble? Maybe Aviators aren't, but pilots are. Ignoble synonyms: base - mean - low - vile - scurvy - low-down - villainous. Wait a minute.....Those are Navy pilots......

P.S. Nice try Greenwood. I already voted

[Hal Bryan]

Wow, I just can't wait until Wednesday...

Anyway, we're way, way off topic here - let's get back to the original discussion about the frequency and wording of EAA renewal notices, or just let this thread put itself out of our misery.

[Zack Baughman]

just let this thread put itself out of our misery.

Hear! Hear!

[Bill Greenwood]

We might not get final results by Wed., but I bet I know at least 2 guys who will be glad to sleep late, not have to get up and shave, put on a suit and have to go out and make speeches in front of millions who are like hungry crocs waiting for someone to make a mistake.

And the press can get back to covering really important matters like Tim Tebow or Lindsey Lohan!

[Tlim486]

Amen Mr. Greenwood, I don't envy either of them, I auto renew EAA and AOPA to forgo any preceived threats.

[Lindberg]

The election results are in. Hide your Citations, Gulfstreams, Learjets and Beechjets.