Which AV Exhibitors turned you on; which did not impress you?

[Floatsflyer]

:) There's an old joke about a group of mature women who meet for weekly lunches and always complain about the food, the service or looking to change the menu. Instead of asking, "is everything OK?", the waiter says, "is anything OK?"

Turning away from the complaints, the dissention, displeasure and angst for just a moment, tell us your thoughts and opinions about just the Exhibitors on the grounds. Along these lines or come up with your own:

Who turned your crank, who didn't?
Who blew you away with their innovation and new ideas?
What new products did you like?
What new aircraft did you like?
Who was "real", who was "pie in the sky"?
Who appears to be most capable of delivering new airplanes and product to market?
What was the best and worst "novelty" item exhibited?
Who was "money talks" and who was "BS walks"?
Who had the greatest value for the money airplane? Who had the most insane pricing for the airplane being offered?
Who/what surprised you? Who/what disappointed you?
Who were you most surprised to see back at AV still exhibiting?
No tangents please, just about the Exhibitors!!!

[FlyingRon]

Garmin Sucks. I am continually underwhelmed by their booth and products. This year was no exception. Wanted to explore information with the GTN series but nobody with a clue was there to talk about them. By the time I found a guy with half a clue, it confirmed my suspicions that Garmin can't design a user interface in their panel mount stuff to save their life. They should really talk to the boys in Salem.

On the other hand Avidyne not only gets it but had ready and eager technical guys to talk to me about it.

[Chris In Marshfield]

The one thing that I found impressive was the explosion of EFIS and other electronic technologies over last year. Since I'm a techno-guy, I enjoyed seeing those new products in addition to the usual providers.

I didn't see a need for the bed vendors there, unless they have a mattress that will fit in the airplane.

I didn't find the new French (?) company with the hybrid land-anywhere aircraft, although I've seen videos for it in the past, and it's pretty killer from what I saw.

The Terrafugia guys made me laugh, showing up with nothing but a tiny model on a podium in their otherwise huge display.

The LSA Mall is getting smaller every year, as the market weeds out the non-performers. The ones that remain are quite nice. So many great styles to choose from, so little money in my pocket.

While I'm building a larger airplane, I appreciate the Quad City Challenger folks over in the ultralight area. The Challenger II kit is a great bang for the buck. ~$31K for "everything but the pilot and the paint", as they say. Heck of a lot of value compared to the $100K+ SLSAs out there, if you don't mind putting in a little elbow grease.

I'm always enthralled by the rotor-wing products. My son (now 12) has been interested in flying helis for at least a couple of years now. I sure hope he maintains that wish (except guess who's going to have to pony up for that instruction!). I was also really really happy to see all of the new gyro vendors this year. The designs that appeared this year have been available in ANZ and SA for a number of years. I'm very pleased to see them in the US now!

There was a radial engine vendor on the field this year that I don't remember from past years. His product looked pretty cool. DeltaHawk was there, as usual, but I didn't make it over to ask them how much longer it was going to be and how much higher the price has climbed. It's like kicking a dead horse.

Being a Stinson fan, and a friend of a Stinson owner, I'm happy to see the Franklin folks ramping up with parts, supplies, and what-not. These are the US-based folks, though, not the Poland-based folks. I didn't see the Poland folks around, although I heard they were there with the same statements about production as in years past. We'll see what really happens.

Surprised... Hmmm... Fewer vendors overall. I was hoping to chat with Precision Airmotive about their Eagle EMS this year, but I didn't see them anywhere. But most of the ones I was looking for, I found.

Tool vendors in/near the Fly Market were plentiful. I came out with a few things I could use. Fairly good selection of "toys" for the kids.

There was an interesting collection of CNC vendors this year, which I thought was cool. Laguna Tools out in the Fly Market was nice to talk to, because I'm a fan of their woodworking tools as well. There were a couple others in the A/B/C/D hangars that I saw with their computerized machinery, but didn't spend much time since I'm not really in the market. Still cool to see, though.

That's a good start, I think. I'm sure I'll come up with others later!

~Chris

[MEdwards]

Continental Motors, under new ownership, must have a big marketing budget. I was very impressed with their displays. Technically, it wasn't quite as strong as last year, since I didn't have to talk to one of their sales people in order to get a "prize," but their presentations were very informative.

Also, the WingX people did a much better job this year of getting their story out. Last year it wasn't even obvious what they were selling in their booth. I wish them well since I like competition.

[TheGreatFlight]

I thought the guys walking around with the bags of 5 Hour Energy bottles handing them out to younger kids was a huge turn off.

My husband was underwhelmed by the Garmin booth, as well. (the knowledge and helpfulness of the people working it)

I always love hanging out in the Icon tent, dreaming of owning one some day. ;)

[Kyle Boatright]

Anyone with an iPad based product was slammed.

Anyone selling proprietary, closed architecture handhelds and the like (Garmin) had a dead booth.

Bendix King is trying to claw their way back, but they can't hit the mark. Their iPad based app wasn't ready for sale ("soon")... Sorry, BK, the market for iPad VFR planners is already saturated. You're too late. And tell the AV8OR good riddance for me... ;-)

Sporty's did a great job explaining the ADS-B to iPad or Portable GPS hardware they were selling.

The Laguna CNC equipment was neat. I want one. I'll have to sell a kidney....

Terrafuga is always worth a laugh. I love their business model - promise the world, take investments, underperform, lather, rinse, repeat. All while transfering investor $ into your paycheck. Brilliant!

[Mayhemxpc]

Foreflight.:D They pushed out a major upgrade, with new Stratus based capabilities, on Friday before AV and did an excellent job talking anyone through using it at their booth. (Logic would have said that Foreflight and Stratus booths should have been next to each other, and within sight of Sporty's). DeltaHawk:( No confidence they will ever have anything, but there is certainly a market for the product! The people selling the cooling neck cloths :( I fell for it, and paid for it. Soaking my hat and T-shirt in one of the water fountains was more effective.

[Floatsflyer]

The new French company, Lisa Airplanes, debuting their SLSA Akoya Amphib. A stunning piece of design work and creative thinking but equally or even more stunning is the acquisition price--$400,000.00(no typo folks) Really??!! Really!!?? For an LSA!! I repeat REALLY!!?? The young management group here must be the offspring of parents who were at Woodstock and took the bad purple blotter acid.

[Eric Witherspoon]

What I thought was cool? The O-100. (Half O-200). Classic airplane-engine looks & parts. Hope they get together with an engine builder so they can offer out-of-the-crate and onto-the-mount. Now need to see it installed in a super-cute single-seat Cub-esque sort of thing...

Blown away with innovation? The guys doing that tethered power-generation "glider". An idea so crazy, it just might work. The videos of that thing in action were awesome. Ok, so that's not so much a "GA" or "homebuilt" item, but it's way closer to aviation than an adjustable bed.

Pie in the sky? The Icon marketing extravaganza. I'm not the "core customer", but it seems like too much development, too much slick video, and not enough "go see our customer type club parking area"... It’s WAY past time to shoot the engineers at that company and deliver the product already…

Most capable of delivering? RV-14. No doubt.

Novelty item? I could do without the "magic" bracelets. It's a carnival trick. There's nothing real going on but the lightening of wallets there.

Surprised to see still exhibiting? Any roadable aircraft except Maverick. Maverick is the only one that addresses some actual operational issues – the rest based around the “park it in your garage” or “drive under the weather” concepts are solutions looking for a problem.

[Floatsflyer]

Pie in the sky? The Icon marketing extravaganza. I'm not the "core customer", but it seems like too much development, too much slick video, and not enough "go see our customer type club parking area"... It’s WAY past time to shoot the engineers at that company and deliver the product already…


I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky, not by definition as they have happened and have achieved. With airplanes in advanced testing and with over 800 deposits equalling about $15 million in a trust account, not used for development financing and fully refundable. By any measure a success story. And a textbook consumer recreational product marketing strategy for a pure fun airplane, although I believe it's highly irresponsible to imply to the non-flying targeted consumer that you can fly this thing like you run a jetski(fully one-third of the orders so far are from non-pilots).

But I agree with you that the development program has been way too long, prodding and methodical(4+ years now) but I guess an argument can easily be made that too much is so much better than too little. The main reason is they're wanting to make it as aerodynamically safe as possible for all those jet skier types about to become sport pilots.

[Floatsflyer]

Pie in the sky? The Icon marketing extravaganza. I'm not the "core customer", but it seems like too much development, too much slick video, and not enough "go see our customer type club parking area"... It’s WAY past time to shoot the engineers at that company and deliver the product already…


I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky, not by definition as they have happened and have achieved. With airplanes in advanced testing and with over 800 deposits equalling about $15 million in a trust account, not used for development financing and fully refundable. By any measure a success story. And a textbook consumer recreational product marketing strategy for a pure fun airplane, although I believe it's highly irresponsible to imply to the non-flying targeted consumer that you can fly this thing like you run a jetski(fully one-third of the orders so far are from non-pilots).

But I agree with you that the development program has been way too long, prodding and methodical(4+ years now) but I guess an argument can easily be made that too much is so much better than too little. The main reason is they're wanting to make it as aerodynamically safe as possible for all those jet skier types about to become sport pilots.

[Floatsflyer]

The new French company, Lisa Airplanes, debuting their SLSA Akoya Amphib. A stunning piece of design work and creative thinking but equally or even more stunning is the acquisition price--$400,000.00(no typo folks) Really??!! Really!!?? For an LSA!! I repeat REALLY!!?? The young management group here must be the offspring of parents who were at Woodstock and took the bad purple blotter acid.

I just read a post on FLYING site that the Lisa guys came back from Osh to find the company has declared bankruptcy and has been put into receivership for 6 months. Apparently much expected government funding did not come through.

For all of you that had $400K burning a hole in your pocket and plunked down a deposit, welcome to the unsecured creditors list.

"CAVEAT EMPTOR".....always!!!

[martymayes]

I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky, not by definition as they have happened and have achieved. With airplanes in advanced testing and with over 800 deposits equalling about $15 million in a trust account, not used for development financing and fully refundable. By any measure a success story. And a textbook consumer recreational product marketing strategy for a pure fun airplane, although I believe it's highly irresponsible to imply to the non-flying targeted consumer that you can fly this thing like you run a jetski(fully one-third of the orders so far are from non-pilots).

But I agree with you that the development program has been way too long, prodding and methodical(4+ years now) but I guess an argument can easily be made that too much is so much better than too little. The main reason is they're wanting to make it as aerodynamically safe as possible for all those jet skier types about to become sport pilots.

What happens if the FAA denies their weight exemption request? Are they dead in the water?

[WtrSkr]

I thought the servers in the SOS Tent were exhibiting quite nicely! :rollseyes:

[Floatsflyer]

What happens if the FAA denies their weight exemption request? Are they dead in the water?



IMO, won't happen because it can't happen. Too much invested from too many stakeholders and too much at stake for the overall LSA category. FAA will not embarass itself by undermining or sticking a knife in what appears to be a success story in the making. There is precedent to be considered as well as the FAA gave an exemption to Terrafugia.


On the off chance that they do, Icon will have to make new choices in their engineering that will not affect the business operation.

[FloridaJohn]

I don't believe that Icon is pie in the sky... By any measure a success story.
Well, except by the measure of "delivered product." :)


Too much invested from too many stakeholders and too much at stake for the overall LSA category. FAA will not embarass itself by undermining or sticking a knife in what appears to be a success story in the making. There is precedent to be considered as well as the FAA gave an exemption to Terrafugia.
I think the additional weight exemption will be denied by the FAA. Terrafugia was granted an exemption up to the amphibious LSA weight, which Icon already has approval for (by virtue of being amphibious). Terrafugia asked for a second exemption for even more weight, and was denied by the FAA. I would be very surprised if the FAA granted a weight exemption to Icon.

Personnally, I think Icon should give up trying to make an "LSA," and should just go right to standard category. Then they have no weight restrictions and can include all their neat-o features in one plane. I don't think enough additional customers will come from the LSA pilots to make it it worth the effort. It seems to me they have done almost enough testing already to just go standard category.

[Floatsflyer]

Personnally, I think Icon should give up trying to make an "LSA," and should just go right to standard category. Then they have no weight restrictions and can include all their neat-o features in one plane. I don't think enough additional customers will come from the LSA pilots to make it it worth the effort. It seems to me they have done almost enough testing already to just go standard category.


It's quite logical to assume that's part of their long term growth strategy. They will most likely follow the path of Flight Design with the C4. They'll continue to market and sell the LSA version while going through the certification process for a 4 place. I'm sure they'll keep both as part of the product line to cater to the distinct but seperate markets. Hopefully with a 4 place they will carefully study the experiences of Lake and not repeat their economics mistakes.

[Aaron Novak]

Turn-offs:

Lincoln-Electric. Personally I think it is distasteful to turn the educational area of the event into a sales grounds. That and the way they promote themselves as the "experts" gives the uneducated the idea that the company has some kind of credentials in the aviation world. Personally I would like to see the workshops area sponsored by people like Spruce, Airgas, Wicks, etc rather than a specific tool company, that may be biased in the information they give out under the flag of "education" in order to promote their own sales.

[martymayes]

IMO, won't happen because it can't happen. Too much invested from too many stakeholders and too much at stake for the overall LSA category. FAA will not embarass itself by undermining or sticking a knife in what appears to be a success story in the making.


That's similar to what LightSquared thought as well.....

[Floatsflyer]

That's similar to what LightSquared thought as well.....


Maybe so....but your comparison is apples and oranges, not even in the same area code. LightSquared decision was all about the assessment of risk to an existing and vital system. Certainly unrelated in any manner to Icon request and with no onerous implications to users.

[Floatsflyer]

I just read a post on FLYING site that the Lisa guys came back from Osh to find the company has declared bankruptcy and has been put into receivership for 6 months. Apparently much expected government funding did not come through.

For all of you that had $400K burning a hole in your pocket and plunked down a deposit, welcome to the unsecured creditors list.

"CAVEAT EMPTOR".....always!!!


:rollseyes: I received this email from LISA Airplanes(French Amphib LSA) confirming:

Dear Mr Wynne,

First of all, thank you for your message.

Yes, LISA Airplanes has gone into receivership on July 30th to protect the company’s future. At this date, we were about to finalize a major fund raising but the investors we had selected did not fulfill their commitments. For your information, I have attached the press release related to this subject that we sent to the media on August 16th.

I remain at your disposal for further information.

Best regards






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[Rodney66Rife]

I was just browsing for relevant posts and I happened to stumble upon yours. Thanks for the useful information!

[Floatsflyer]

What happens if the FAA denies their weight exemption request? Are they dead in the water?


ICON EXEMPTION REQUEST:


report at AOPA.org. The FAA has delayed their decision until the end of the year. Originally, they said the decision would be made by early Sept.