Vinyl Graphics Instead of Paint?

[TaelDragon]

I read an article a while back about someone that completely wrapped one of the Sonex designs in vinyl instead of painting it. Has there ever been a follow-up or has anyone else done something similar? I am wondering how the vinyl has stood up over time and if there have been any quality or safety of flight issues? Also, with the Sonex being a metal design, would the vinyl adhere to a fiberglass aircraft just as well?

I also heard about a company that does full vinyl wraps for remote controlled aircraft but have not been able to find anything on the internet.

The long term plans for my Dragonfly include paint and I just want to start gathering as much information on options as I can.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Cheers;

Robin

C-FEYS
Dragonfly MkIIH

Aviation:
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[CarlOrton]

Hi, Robin;

Take a look at the picture of my airplane to the left. Just behind my cowl I applied a wrap to the bare aluminum.

It's adhered well, but I've only made two flights on it since my AW inspection, so as far as long-term reliability, sorry; no data.

I was a bit disappointed in the ability of the material to conform to the AN525 machine screws that hold the motor mounts to the fuselage. I've tried several ways to improve, but none work. I MAY HAVE BEEN SOLD a different kind of wrap material. The shop I used just happened to be on the way home from the airport, so I really didn't shop around. By that, the material seemed thicker than I would have imagined for a wrap, but I had nothing with which to compare. It's a 3M product; that's about all I know.

Regardless, I'd do it again; my graphic design, while intellectually simple, would have been a bear to mask-off and paint.

EDIT: duh....didn't know I couldn't expand my avatar. If you'd like, I'll send you a bigger copy showing the graphic. Or, you can check the last picture of the most recent log entry at http://mykitlog.com/corton

[FlyingRon]

I had Vinyl graphics on my plane before it was painted the last time. Not the N-numbers but some of the Navion logos, etc... Worked fine.
I've had vinyl registration numbers on my boat for nearly NINE years now and you won't get much worse of an environment than that. They're still adhering and looking fine.

[Aaron Novak]

My three concerns would be this:

1) The obvious of it coming off in flight.

2) Corrosion. You would still need to prime and paint the aluminum prior to wrapping, and the wrap material may aggrevate certain corrosion phenomenon.

3) Inspection. Much like a think coat of powdercoat type paint, the wrap can hide things.

[jimw]

There is a lot of vinly graphics being applied to not only aircraft but complete road vehicals as well. Cirrus graphics are all vinyl...Vinyl Graphich, Oostburg Wi has a system that enables them to develop custom graphics for covering vans, suv's or a semi tractor trailer with no problem and the new materials are not effected by X-Rays or Cold weather. http://www.vinylgraphics.net/ They will be doing mine later this year.

The vinyl seals off the Al from oxidation, no corrosion, the contact strength is superior and will not lift, Kohler company has been running their fleet of semi trailers for 5 plus years, the Milw buss fleet for 12 years.


I read an article a while back about someone that completely wrapped one of the Sonex designs in vinyl instead of painting it. Has there ever been a follow-up or has anyone else done something similar? I am wondering how the vinyl has stood up over time and if there have been any quality or safety of flight issues? Also, with the Sonex being a metal design, would the vinyl adhere to a fiberglass aircraft just as well?

I also heard about a company that does full vinyl wraps for remote controlled aircraft but have not been able to find anything on the internet.

The long term plans for my Dragonfly include paint and I just want to start gathering as much information on options as I can.

Thanks in advance for all the help.

Cheers;

Robin

C-FEYS
Dragonfly MkIIH

Aviation:
For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[CraigCantwell]

We did it way back in 1997 on an F-16 flight test program. Took the material to .85 Mach and over 5G in testing. As far as I can remember, it ended up not being worth the time to do it when compared to paint when you look at duarbility and longevity. I have an aquaintence that was probably involved in the testing and can quiz him on it. For what it's worth, if it wasn't cost effective in the long run, we didn't move it into production.

[David Darnell]

We did it way back in 1997 on an F-16 flight test program. Took the material to .85 Mach and over 5G in testing. As far as I can remember, it ended up not being worth the time to do it when compared to paint when you look at duarbility and longevity. I have an aquaintence that was probably involved in the testing and can quiz him on it. For what it's worth, if it wasn't cost effective in the long run, we didn't move it into production.

Well, I'll remember that when I build my mach 1 experimental....

[CraigCantwell]

Hi David: We also did a short test with a C-130 if I remember correctly. I think the end results were that it didn't hold up in the long run and would have to be removed and new applied more often than conventional paint. It's probably fine for something that doesn't fly much, but for our operational world, it wasn't working. I've worked on customers' a/c that had vinyl graphics and most were starting to look ratty after just a couple of years. Some of the newer materials may be worth looking in to tho. We looked at using vinyl in a couple different places on some restorations that I worked on, but ended up taking it off and going with regular paint. Two things about vinyl... heat weakens the adhesive bond, so keeping the a/c outside all the time has the potential for the appliques to start lifting. Also, the vinyls don't take paint real well, so fading and touch up could be a problem.

If someone really wants to play with the technique, it might be worth seeing what the NASCAR and Indy car guys use for their sticker stuff. I've never been close to one of the cars after a summer race, but what they look like up close would give you some indication as to how the material holds up.

[Aaron Novak]

The vinyl seals off the Al from oxidation, no corrosion, the contact strength is superior and will not lift, Kohler company has been running their fleet of semi trailers for 5 plus years, the Milw buss fleet for 12 years.

Some of this claim I would be suspect of. The materials used on road vehicles send to be a lot of 5xxx and 6xxx series alloys, and have quite different coating requirements of the 2xxx series seen heavily in aircraft. A wrap is no substitute for an epoxy prime and topcoat when it comes to corrosion, at least on the salt spray testing I have seen.

[TaelDragon]

Greetings Everyone;Sorry for the delay, been out of my Internet coverage area for the last few days.So, what I gather is that it is possible but may not stand up to Air Force levels of flight time and remain cost effective. Corrosion resistance won't be a factor for me as I have a fiberglass aircraft. Looks like I'll have to find someone local and see if they might be interested in working up a quote.I appreciate the help and will post progress here as it happens. Cheers,Robin

[N1ksa]

Hi all,

Just joined the forums after seeing this question.....I can definitely answer. I am a Instrument rated PPL and next in line to be owner of our family sign shop - and what we deal with is 99% cut vinyl and digitally printed graphics. To answer your question.....yes it is possible to wrap a plane with quality results. Our shop does about 25-30 full wraps a year - mostly on commercial vehicles, trailers, cars, kiosks, walls, & even a Harley Davidson. I would LOVE to wrap a plane. There are a variety of manufacturers out there for wrap vinyl. Everyone knows of course - 3M, which is the MOST expensive out there, however have worked with enough other materials that have the same or better results at literally almost half the price. We typically use Arlon DPF6000XRP. Most all wrap vinyls nowadays have air egress technology built into them which allows the vinyl to breathe and not have any bubbles or wrinkles when applied properly. It works very well with very complex curves, rivets, corrugations, etc. It has a repositionable, pressure-sensitive adhesive that has an outdoor durability of 7-10 years and clean removability of 4 years without heat, and with a little heat after 4 years still comes off cleanly.

Wrap material in general is about 4-6 mils in total thickness. The printed Arlon with UV lamination is only 4 mils thick. Unless the material has lifted for some reason, it will not "just come off in flight." Do a search on Youtube for an airliner wrap....you will find several.....mostly using 3M - handles high speeds, high altitudes, cold temps, pressurization, etc. A recent article I read in a trade magazine, a wrap was done on a solar car and it shaved off 15lbs versus the weight of a paint job. It will adhere to raw aluminum, steel, other metals, etc. Sealed fiberglass, I have not tested myself....if it was coated with a decent primer, should adhere perfectly fine.

Being left outside in the sun daily is not an issue. I have my personal car wrapped and it has no issues. It will be 7-10 years before it starts to peel, crack, or lift. The printed parts have a durability of 5-7 years before they start to fade with proper lamination. There are no "touch-ups" with vinyl. If it's not new.....it's replaced when it fades, peels, or cracks.

In terms of someone installing it, find a wrap or sign company that does wraps. And is either comfortable working on a aircraft, has some familiarity of one, or has wrapped a plane before. In USD, you can expect in the neighborhood of $12-17/sq ft depending on material, coverage, installer, etc for a complete wrap installed. Generally, design is handled separately. And if you're considering trying it yourself.......don't. It will be one very expensive mistake and should be left to a professional to install.

[Anymouse]

My Tango is painted all white and uses vinyl for the numbers and stripes. It's been on there for five years and over 300 hours of flight time. Most people don't realize it's vinyl until I tell them. I cruise at about 180 KTAS and haven't seen a hint of peeling. All that being said, the person that printed the stripes/numbers insisted on applying them himself as improper application can cause problems.

Unfortunately, that fellow sold his business to a big conglomerate and they're not interested in the aviation market at all.

[TaelDragon]

Just to clarify, like many here have stated, my registration marks and miscellaneous stuff are vinyl and have proved to be problem free after many hours of flying. But wrapping the WHOLE airplane is somewhat different.

I am very pleased by what N1ska has added to the conversation. I think him (her?) and I are going to have a long conversation when it comes time to redo the basic white scheme that my, and many other, fiberglass airplanes end up with. I think I would probably take the plane somewhere and have it stripped and primed by a professional and then meet N1ska to have the graphics applied. I love it when a plan comes together!

Thanks again to all for the input. This kind of forum just reaffirms my belief that some of the nicest people you'll ever meet are airplane people!

[WLIU]

A friend was a crew chief on a Red Bull Air Race airplane. He reports that one of the competitors had their whole airplane wrapped in vinyl, including the propeller spinner. He reported being pretty impressed that they could wrap the spinner.

The vinyl had no problems at 300mph and 10G.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[rwanttaja]

A friend was a crew chief on a Red Bull Air Race airplane. He reports that one of the competitors had their whole airplane wrapped in vinyl, including the propeller spinner. He reported being pretty impressed that they could wrap the spinner.

The vinyl had no problems at 300mph and 10G.

And how was it holding up ten years later?

Ron Wanttaja

[Mike Switzer]

My 2000 F350 has vinyl graphics & there are a few places where it is trying to peel at the edges. I wish it was paint.

[WLIU]

"And how was it holding up ten years later?"

That actually can be an upside to using vinyl, Changing paint is expensive and painful. With vinyl, if you decide that you don't like a stripe or want a checkerboard, or perhaps the name of the spouse on the side of your ship is no longer appropriate, it is comparatively easy to peel the vinyl up and try something different. I wonder if vinyl on the leading edges of a wing will suffer less flying in rain damage, or be easier to repair?

And if you try some different graphics and decide you really really like one, you can take the vinyl off and do paint.

Think outside the box.

Best of luck,

Wes
N78PS

[rwanttaja]

"And how was it holding up ten years later?"

That actually can be an upside to using vinyl, Changing paint is expensive and painful. With vinyl, if you decide that you don't like a stripe or want a checkerboard, or perhaps the name of the spouse on the side of your ship is no longer appropriate, it is comparatively easy to peel the vinyl up and try something different. I wonder if vinyl on the leading edges of a wing will suffer less flying in rain damage, or be easier to repair?

And if you try some different graphics and decide you really really like one, you can take the vinyl off and do paint.

Think outside the box.


I'd rather have a durable product in a scheme I don't like than one that forces me to "repaint" the aircraft every several years whether I want to or not.

Heck, that *exactly* describes my current situation. I dislike the paint scheme on the Fly Baby I bought sixteen years ago. But more than thirty years after first flight, it's still looking good. Would have loved to have changed it in 1997, but not if I would have had to have re-done it in 2002, 2007, and 2011.

I like vinyl for trim. I'm skeptical of the long-term impacts for whole-plane applications. As Mike mentioned, he's got a truck where the stuff is peeling off.

One of our Fly Baby crowd painted his plane with latex house paint about five years ago. It's still holding up, and he can do touch-ups with a foam brush and some windshield-washer fluid. See: http://www.bowersflybaby.com/tech/latex.html

Ron Wanttaja

[N1ksa]

Sorry for the delay in response, didn't have any notifications turned on and have been incredibly sidetracked with work lately. My name is Adam - We are on our 17th wrap of the year at the shop.....the last one was a 26ft box truck with over 800 rivets on the sides of the box. I pushed every single one of them down myself.....took 2 days to wrap this truck. If anyone is interested in flying in locally, there are several airports that are local to Springfield MA, that we can arrange something to meet and apply graphics or even a partial or full wrap.

When I do any kind of vehicle wrap, I only use premium wrap vinyl. It conforms to all types of complex curves without any lifting or issues at all. Here's a picture of my own car that we wrapped a few months ago...see below.



Just to clarify, like many here have stated, my registration marks and miscellaneous stuff are vinyl and have proved to be problem free after many hours of flying. But wrapping the WHOLE airplane is somewhat different.

I am very pleased by what N1ska has added to the conversation. I think him (her?) and I are going to have a long conversation when it comes time to redo the basic white scheme that my, and many other, fiberglass airplanes end up with. I think I would probably take the plane somewhere and have it stripped and primed by a professional and then meet N1ska to have the graphics applied. I love it when a plan comes together!

Thanks again to all for the input. This kind of forum just reaffirms my belief that some of the nicest people you'll ever meet are airplane people!

[N1ksa]

And how was it holding up ten years later?

Ron Wanttaja

Vinyl is not paint.......it never will be. So if you're expecting it to last 30 years.....don't count on it. However, there have been vast improvements in vinyl over the years. There are still different varieties of manufacturers out there that make different qualities. Just like paint - intermediate vinyl or digitally printed vinyl with proper lamination will start to fade at 5 years out.....that's why if someone has vinyl lettering and they remove it after 5 years, you get a ghosting effect because the UV rays have started to fade the paint around the letters but not behind the vinyl. However, if we go into the paint wrap vinyls, which are solid colors including metallics like anthracite or metallic silver, they have an expected outdoor life of 10 years, have air egress technology built into them, and clean removability with a little heat. Digitally printed wraps again will start to fade around 5 years out up here in New England (that also depends on your geographic location), but the material I use is a 10 year vinyl.

There are lots of options out there, but just make sure you do your homework or use someone who is reputable and knows what they are doing.

[Bashor_28]

Yeah vinyl vehicle wraps (https://silvertipgraphics.com/) are really good alternative to the re-painting job. I also had a doubt if the vehicle wraps would last longer or not but mine are in good condition event after completing more than a year now.

[DaleB]

Google N35PM, Pete McCoy's RV-9a, and look at the images. I've checked up on that plane three years in a row at Oshkosh, because I was thinking about wrapping and wanted to see how well it held up. It's a full vinyl wrap. I'd say it's holding up very well. The owner has patched a few places on the wheel pants -- tough to see unless you look very closely. The vinyl will rub where there's contact, like under the canopy skirt, but if you identify those places you could put some clear protecting film over them.

I've also vinyl wrapped a few pieces on my own plane. It's not hard to do, looks good and I really don't see any problems with it. Easy to repair, too.

[1600vw]

This is vinyl wrapped. Its a couple years old now. Holding up great.

6708

[Bill Berson]

There was a vinyl wrapped fabric covered high wing LSA at Airventure 2017, fun fly zone (ultralights).
I forgot to get a photo. Looked good.

[Jim Heffelfinger]

This was at AV14 and is a wrap - imagine painting this??
6716
6717

[Kyle Boatright]

I have a vinyl checkerboard over white Imron on the rudder of my RV-6. It is 16 years old and has >1,000 hours. The airplane is hangared.

The vinyl is holding up well...

But, I'd be scared to do vinyl over bare metal. Paint or prime first, then vinyl is my recommendation. It is easy to get corrosion under vinyl if it is over bare metal...