PDA

View Full Version : $3.00 for a bottle of water! EAA should be ashamed.



Jim Clark
08-03-2011, 10:55 PM
As an EAA member I was ashamed when I saw a young family buy water for the kids but passed for themselves. I chair the National Biplane Fly In and our big money maker is selling water for a buck a bottle. It only costs us .12 cents a bottle when we buy at retail at WalMart and we feel that an 830% mark up is plenty. Go ahead and charge movie theater prices for the lousy food, ice cream bars and soda, the human body doesn't have to have lousy food, ice cream bars and soda. We all have to have water! I personally consider it the worst form of profiteering when you have the only source for an essential commodity and boost the price 2,500%. How does that help "Share the spirit of aviation"? I thank God my 1939 Waco uses inexpensive AvGas and not EAA water. Wake up EAA. Time to rethink who we really are and remember what our founder said, "We're not about airplanes, we're about people.". If that is really true then be satisfied with an 800% profit and sell water for a reasonable $1 per bottle.

Anymouse
08-04-2011, 12:56 AM
You think that's bad, try the Paris Air Show. I paid the equivalent of $25 for a sandwich and bottle of water there this summer.

malexander
08-04-2011, 04:44 AM
I won't/don't buy water I'll use the drinking fountains

PaulDow
08-04-2011, 07:44 AM
I believe bottled water is sold at the Vintage information building for a lot less. I know it's not publicized at all, and since it's only one location, it's often a long distance from where you are on the airport.

With all the recent expansion on the grounds, more water fountain locations should be on the short list for an improvement. I don't have any idea where water pipes are running through the site, but hopefully it wouldn't be too hard to tap into a few more locations.

FlyingRon
08-04-2011, 09:13 AM
A lot of the site isn't on municipal water. There are wells scattered in various places (pretty much indicated by where there are water fountains, shower buildings, etc...).

FSMP
08-04-2011, 01:45 PM
Once again, an idea PROMOTIONAL opportunity for Bottled Water companies, like Polar.

Free, or very low price, PROMOTIONAL distribution of cool, clean, fresh tasting bottled water.

BEER companies do it at similar events... so why not WATER.

If I was dying of thirst, and had that thirst quenched at Oshkosh, by a plentifull supply of cold, clean, fresh tasting bottled water, then whose water would I probaby select in the supermaket after that ...

Geoff

Jason Alexander
08-04-2011, 02:05 PM
I will agree that $3 for a bottle of water is too much, but, for what it's worth, it possibly cut down a little on the trash left scattered around the grounds this year. That's what disgusted me more than anything. In my years at AV, it's always been one of the cleanest gatherings I could think of, but this year the litter on the ground was horrible. When the wind storm hit on Saturday during the airshow, I saw bottles, cups, bags, and even plastic utensils flying around. Granted, some of that may have been from people who had laid their trash aside for disposal after the show, but during the evenings, I would walk around and start picking cups, bottles, etc... up that were just laying around. I've never had to do that before. Sorry. I just needed to vent about that for a minute.

Kyle Boatright
08-04-2011, 03:05 PM
Nobody is making anybody buy $3 water.

Cheaper water is available in the Ultralight Area, the IAC tent, and maybe Vintage. Beyond that, there are water fountains. Shoot, I think you can bring your own water if you want.

FlyingRon
08-04-2011, 04:09 PM
I remember one year Honda had a big tub of free water bottles. It was real popular.
PIC Insurance gave away free water one year too if I recall.

Unwiredone
08-04-2011, 04:26 PM
I love your 'location' Jason A.!

jdpainter
08-04-2011, 06:28 PM
I remember one year Honda had a big tub of free water bottles. It was real popular.
PIC Insurance gave away free water one year too if I recall.

I have it on pretty good authority (as in *two* of the vendors telling me) that the vendors/exhibitors were explicitly forbidden from giving away free water this year.

martymayes
08-04-2011, 07:41 PM
Seriously, is the price of bottled water EAA's fault? Hasn't Zaugs had the concession contract at AV for the past 25 yrs? And since I've never seen any competition, perhaps they get a "no competition / limited competition" clause in their concession contract with EAA? If I had such a contract, I'd be a bit miffed to have competition in the form of exhibitors giving bottled water away for free.

FWIW, I bring my own "8 cents a bottle" water. And I don't buy any Zaugs concessions. If EAA stops attendees from bringing their own drinking water to AV, has no drinking fountains and essentially 'forces' everyone to buy $3/bottle water, they should be ashamed but for now I don't see what all the fuss is about.

FlyingRon
08-05-2011, 05:47 AM
I don't believe the contract was exclusive (they did have Fratello's this year and had a competing catering company in the past) there were things that kept the EAA divisions from operating their own competition (for example Tall Pines Cafe operated by Vintage could only operate at times when Zaugs didn't).

Personally, I've got a cooler and a case of Wal*Mart water in the campsite.

Joe Delene
08-05-2011, 08:43 AM
I buy a bottle or 2 when needed. After that I refill them at the fountains. Refuse,reuse, & recycle, or something like that.

steveinindy
08-05-2011, 09:17 AM
There's a reason why next year, I'm putting up an air conditioned tent back in Warbirds camping and offering water, snacks etc as a cooling station of sorts. After seeing multiple cases of heat exhaustion and one of heat stroke, screw the overpriced stuff. It will be free but if anyone wants to make a donation to offset the costs, etc it will be welcomed.

Jason Alexander
08-05-2011, 10:06 AM
I love your 'location' Jason A.!

Hahaha. Thanks! It's not far off! I literally drive past "Boondock Rd." about 5 miles before I get to my house!

Jim Clark
08-05-2011, 10:39 AM
You think that's bad, try the Paris Air Show. I paid the equivalent of $25 for a sandwich and bottle of water there this summer. Oshkosh is not the Paris air show.

Anymouse
08-05-2011, 11:07 AM
Oshkosh is not the Paris air show.

You know, up to this point I hadn't realized that. No wonder I couldn't understand anyone there.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ujc5X9MhNog/TLxtokRgtYI/AAAAAAAAASk/5K4qhzkaR-c/s1600/Slap-Forehead.jpg

PaulDow
08-05-2011, 11:08 AM
Oshkosh is not the Paris air show.Give it another 5 to 10 years. This year HAI had that two level exhibition building. Rod said he expected more of them in coming years, and he seemed quite proud of that. Major companies are learning that AirVenture (Not the EAA International Fly-In Convention) is very good for sales.

steveinindy
08-05-2011, 11:55 AM
It's not a bad thing. The main reason I attend is to see the stuff the major companies have to offer. If I simply wanted to see a collection of experimental aircraft and drink beer and eat good food with my fellow pilots, I would skip AirVenture and just attend local fly-ins. That's a lot cheaper, less hassle and I don't have to deal with the horrendous crowds.

Fastcapy
08-05-2011, 08:20 PM
I always just fill up my subzero bottle before heading out and then when I start running low I just head to the water fountains for a refill. I never have a problem finding them, however I have never looked for them on the map to see if they are listed on there. If they are not on the maps maybe it is something for EAA to look into doing. Another good thing about my bottle is I keep it on me so it won't be laying on the ground and blowing across the runways like the disposable plastic bottles.

Anymouse
08-06-2011, 02:26 AM
Camelback. It's always there, never gets in the way, and doesn't get lost.

dmbleess
08-06-2011, 03:18 PM
I usually buy a Lemonade someplace and then just keep refilling the bottle from the fountains and spigots the rest of the day as I get thirsty. Keeps the trash down as well as the costs down.

If it is $3.00 water you're buying, then you're not looking hard enough or you're probably just donating to some sort of organization or cause.

Another no-waste option I have seen is to bring a closeable insulated travel mug and tie it to your person via a carabiner and/or lanyard. They hook well to a belt loop, camera vest / bag or backpack loops. Even the well water is usually quite cool.

I have a camel-bak backpack and icewater in it would be nice but I usually carry my good padded camera backpack instead.

Slipping the camelbak insert into that would pull a bunch of condensation into my camera bag and take up the laptop pocket that I usually fill with my book purchases and vendor literature.

NAA551WB
08-06-2011, 03:31 PM
$3.00 is outlandish but remember this; big festivals will always draw price gouging. Given you do not have to buy the water that is sold at Airventure but with the heat being how it was this year they need to make spickets more available. What I would like to know is where does the income go that is made on food and the $3 a bottle of water.

Anymouse
08-06-2011, 05:08 PM
I have a camel-bak backpack and icewater in it would be nice but I usually carry my good padded camera backpack instead.

Slipping the camelbak insert into that would pull a bunch of condensation into my camera bag and take up the laptop pocket that I usually fill with my book purchases and vendor literature.

Not sure if it would cover your needs for the camera, but Camelback does make a combo with a rucksack that's designed to keep the condensation out of the the storage area. It should keep your vendor stuff dry. Bottom line, there's a lot of ways (as you and others have mentioned) to beat the system if you're willing.

FlyingRon
08-07-2011, 06:54 AM
I got browned off on Camelback after the one I had sprung a leak on the internal bladder early on and they told me to take a hike.
(The bladder has to be a $1 part for them and replacing it would have been the honorable thing to do). Not a kind thing to happen on the beginning of the 20 mile run (fortunately I had a carry bottle and there were places to refill it).

I got a NALGENE "camelback" style backpack which I use for my 20 mile runs. It's got enough storage to carry a set of warmups. There's a insulated bag the bladder fits in before it goes into the pack so I've never had a condensation problem. By the way, the trick to avoid the sloshing is to make sure there is no AIR in the bladder after you fill it.

nfdlpilot
08-09-2011, 01:06 PM
The best tasting free water, and usually cold, is the "water buffalo" trailers that are here and there. Don't tell everybody, but now you know.

Interstater
08-09-2011, 01:46 PM
The best tasting free water, and usually cold, is the "water buffalo" trailers that are here and there. Don't tell everybody, but now you know.

And who told you? Hmmm?


Seriously, the water buffalos (trailers) are nice, but there needs to be a lot more of them.

JD_02
08-10-2011, 02:36 PM
We were walking around in the Fly Market. We had to get some hardware so we headed for Airparts Inc. When I asked about the $1 water bottles that they always used to have, they said EAA wouldn't let them sell it anymore. What a joke!

Hangar10
08-10-2011, 03:13 PM
Camelbak is by far the best way to go. I wear mine all week when I'm touring the grounds. Top it off each day with 2L of cold water from the cooler and it stays cool most of the day. I pay about 15-cents for a .5L bottle, so I fill my Camelbak for 60-cents a day.

@FlyingRon... sprung a leak, really? Wow! I used the same Camelbak for 5-years in the military and never damaged it. I'm on my third unit now (15 years after buying my first... dog chewed up the second one), and I love em. They are a little pricey... $40 for the bare bones... $80 - $100 for the day pack type. Give em another try... not only is it a great alternative to $3 water, but it is an excellent addition to your survival goods, if you are in to that sort of thing. ;)

Mike Switzer
08-10-2011, 03:42 PM
Do you guys have any problems with mold growing in the camelback? I keep fighting that problem with the Brita pitchers at home

Hangar10
08-10-2011, 03:53 PM
I wash and hang dry my Camelbak bladder (inverted) after use. Not daily, but I washed it when I got home from OSH. I also wash (rinse) again before I use it.

I have a Pur water filter reservoir in my fridge, but don't have any issues with mold in either.

FlyingRon
08-11-2011, 05:56 AM
I've not had a problem with the bladders getting moldy, but the tubing can be problematic if you aren't careful about it.

Joe Delene
08-11-2011, 07:47 AM
I'd give a camelback an occasional rinse with a mild bleach mix, to prevent mold.

Barren
08-23-2011, 01:17 PM
There are a lot of approved ways to clean your water bladder devices. I know CamelBak makes a "cleaning kit", I have both a CamelBak and an Osprey water reservoir. I recently cleaned my CamelBak with baking soda, vinegar, and hot water (not boiling.. just warm from the tap** excessively hot water can damage a bladder!) 1 tablespoon of soda and another of vinegar.. let sit for awhile, then rinse thoroughly.

The nice things about the bladders is that most modern backpacks have some setup to allow for one. Instead of using a tiny CamelBak or a giant hiking pack, you should be able to remove the reservoir and install it into a backpack that will suit your needs while roaming the grounds.

As for the price of water, I know that there were a lot of complaints about the cost from the vendors on-site, I'm fairly sure that EAA heard your plea and hope they will rectify that for next year!

And I know that coolers are allowed on the grounds, there is a limit as to it's size, but you are allowed to carry-in your own water.

flyingriki
08-23-2011, 06:06 PM
The first house right outside the gate towards the beer tent has $1 ice cold water. Stopped by every time I was near. $3 is absurd. As was the $4.50 hot dog that was a cheap little dog that EAA groups sell for $1.50 at our fly-ins. Too bad so many don't care about gouging. :P

Barren
08-25-2011, 08:52 AM
The first house right outside the gate towards the beer tent has $1 ice cold water. Stopped by every time I was near. $3 is absurd. As was the $4.50 hot dog that was a cheap little dog that EAA groups sell for $1.50 at our fly-ins. Too bad so many don't care about gouging. :P

I don't want to sound like I condone the gouging or think that the prices aren't out of hand, but I do want to note that the event is only a week long and spans a fairly large amount of space and there are quite a lot of places to get food... that said, the infrastructure required to not only setup those booths, but also to clean, maintain, and staff them is sizable for only a 7 day span. Not to forget cost of permits, training the temporary staff, etc. Obviously, they are making a profit from their high priced food and beverages, or they wouldn't be out there, but I would hope that EAA can turn the screws a little bit on them to prevent the gouging on water prices. For a temporary event, I don't think the rest of the food is that much out of hand... It's still cheaper than State Fair or Great America food.

Antique Tower
08-25-2011, 10:28 AM
In one week I ate four times at the Sacred Heart brat stand beside the transportation depot, outside the main gate. Great prices and awesome food.

361

flyingriki
08-25-2011, 10:32 AM
I don't want to sound like I condone the gouging or think that the prices aren't out of hand, but I do want to note that the event is only a week long and spans a fairly large amount of space and there are quite a lot of places to get food... that said, the infrastructure required to not only setup those booths, but also to clean, maintain, and staff them is sizable for only a 7 day span. Not to forget cost of permits, training the temporary staff, etc. It's still cheaper than State Fair or Great America food.

See the post above from Antique Tower. They have the same issues of infrastructure, staffing etc. etc. and no gouging. Great food too!

Antique Tower
08-25-2011, 10:52 AM
To be fair, I think Sacred Heart is staffed by volunteers.

Jeff Point
08-25-2011, 11:05 AM
To be fair, I think Sacred Heart is staffed by volunteers.

They are a church in town, and this is a fund raiser for the them. It is staffed by members of the parish. At one time they owned much of the land that is now part of the EAA grounds, and part of the land sale included agreements for them to be able to run their food stand. A mutually beneficial deal. They used to be the best kept secret on the grounds, now they are the worst kept secret. I make it a point to go there (almost every day) during non-peak hours and the lines are usually not bad at all.

FlyingRon
08-25-2011, 08:25 PM
The Sacred Heart Church. The first year I went to Oshkosh I almost stayed in their convent.

crackle
10-10-2011, 09:00 AM
Camelbacks and water bottles:
Best advice I ever had was not to add anything except water, dry it out after use, and keep it from sunlight.

douglish
10-27-2011, 10:16 PM
YAIRS
That's if you can find them.

flyingriki
10-27-2011, 10:33 PM
As an EAA member I was ashamed when I saw a young family buy water for the kids but passed for themselves. I chair the National Biplane Fly In and our big money maker is selling water for a buck a bottle. It only costs us .12 cents a bottle when we buy at retail at WalMart and we feel that an 830% mark up is plenty. Go ahead and charge movie theater prices for the lousy food, ice cream bars and soda, the human body doesn't have to have lousy food, ice cream bars and soda. We all have to have water! I personally consider it the worst form of profiteering when you have the only source for an essential commodity and boost the price 2,500%. How does that help "Share the spirit of aviation"? I thank God my 1939 Waco uses inexpensive AvGas and not EAA water. Wake up EAA. Time to rethink who we really are and remember what our founder said, "We're not about airplanes, we're about people.". If that is really true then be satisfied with an 800% profit and sell water for a reasonable $1 per bottle.

That was my feeling precisely this year. Very disappointing.
Sure there are lots of ways around it but WHY?

Lindberg
11-13-2011, 09:40 PM
Psst......EAA gets a percentage on that water. They do not make money on free water. Bring your own plastic bottle and keep it filled whenever you see a drinking fountain. Then you will have more money for more nutritious adult beverages at night. But while we are at it, I can recall a lot of places used to give away free water that don't anymore. I am suspicious. Some may think it's the cause of a lot of litter that we never used to see in the past and free water meant throwing away paper cups and small bottles. Methinks that somebody has decreed that no person or entity will give away free water at AirVenture. This year I staggared around looking for water and finally found a beer tent just outside EAA property. I really felt like I was getting away with something and I think the bottles of beer were $3.00. Not bad, huh? You should have seen the bartenderettes.;)

flyingriki
11-14-2011, 11:08 AM
They were hot weren't they?! Really enjoy that place in the evenings.
968

Lindberg
11-15-2011, 07:57 AM
"Really enjoy that place in the evenings."

:)Yep..................and there was a few afternoons that it was so dang hot that I just had to amble down there and enjoy a cold adult beverage and the view. Could not find a water fountain anywhere. And why pay $3.00 for a bottle of water when you can get a bottle of beer and a view like that. Don't ya just love aviation?

rosiejerryrosie
11-15-2011, 09:36 AM
Why anyone would drink water, knowing what fish do in it, is beyond comprehension....
;)

Canadian8apilot
01-19-2012, 08:45 PM
What you fail to understand is the water is still $.12. the so called 2500% mark up is the fee for the convience of not having to drag your own watter with you and keeping it cold for you.
It happens at all events like this, try buying water at the Canadian GP in Montreal...yikes!

when you go to an event like this be prepaired to pay top dollar, or hire a sherpa to carry your cooler full of cool drinks.

Bill

Mike Berg
02-01-2012, 06:02 PM
Stop on down to the Aeronca site in the vintage tent. We always have free ice water.

Lindberg
02-02-2012, 01:53 PM
All joking aside, I think EAA should be a bit more considerate to those who pay a fair amount of money to attend the events each day. The maps should at least show where drinking water is available. Looking for a drinking fountain never used to be a problem, and to disallow anyone from distributing something like free water is evidence of what EAA has become today.

I can understand being fleeced of things like T-shirts and merchandise with the EAA logos on them. Hell, if you don't want to spend the money on stuff like that, you don't have to. $3.00 for an ice cream cone? Bring it on. But water is a very important. From what I recall there is no free water anywhere near AeroShell Square. EAA is not going to fold buy putting in a few more new drinking fountains in that area. There is something cynical about making people pay $3.00 for a bottle of water on a hot July day when they have already paid $27.00 to $41.00 per day to get in plus the thousands they spend just to get and stay to Oshkosh. What is next? Pay toilets. (I should not give them any ideas.)

Thank God for the Beer Tent. The walk is worth it.

steveinindy
02-02-2012, 02:09 PM
And why pay $3.00 for a bottle of water when you can get a bottle of beer and a view like that. Don't ya just love aviation?

What's great is that I showed my fiancee the picture of the "bartenderettes" and she's like "I agree with Lindberg".

That said, I've thought about once I get into the point of being able to have a display tent of our own (or if someone would partner with us) I'd offer water and ice free but ask for a donation for our non-profit. The idea of a misting tent has also come to mind.


But water is a very important. From what I recall there is no free water anywhere near AeroShell Square.

I almost fainted because of dehydration one year and if it had not been for the guys from the Hawker Beechcraft, I probably would have found myself on the way to the hospital.

PaulDow
02-02-2012, 07:26 PM
From what I recall there is no free water anywhere near AeroShell Square.
Ya gotta stay up to date on the corporate sponsors though, or the Conoco Phillips people will want more branding.

With the expansion of the exhibit space a couple years ago, I think water fountains in that area would be good. It's a very long walk from the entrance to the flight line. Perhaps near the EAA member tents. Of course, I've got no idea what's running underground.

hkyplr18
07-26-2012, 04:35 PM
The problem here is this... Yes it cost 3 bucks for water at the fair, sporting event, concert, etc. but what the EAA completely forgets is that we are MEMBERS! We pay DUES every year. We pay the $50+ a day for parking/camping/Wrist Band at OSH and still get the nickel and dime treatment. We get TERRIBLE food from the Zaug's vendor who serves food on par with what I ate in elementary school as a kid. Absolutely ridiculous.

Eric Page
07-26-2012, 07:33 PM
I filled my 3-liter Camelback with ice and water at the UW dorm before I caught the bus this morning. I was still drinking cold water on the return bus this afternoon.

My total expense for the day was $3.00 RT bus fare, $27 gate admission and $6.25 for a cheeseburger and a basket of fries (cheaper than most airport concessions).

Greg S
07-27-2012, 07:55 AM
That said, I've thought about once I get into the point of being able to have a display tent of our own (or if someone would partner with us) I'd offer water and ice free but ask for a donation for our non-profit. The idea of a misting tent has also come to mind.


A couple of years ago, there were vendors in the fly market that were offering free water. EAA told them it wasn't allowed because it was detracting from the business of vendors who SOLD the water. Go figure.

BBARTONB
07-27-2012, 01:25 PM
I agree with you 110%.But as i was told when i posted about this same thing{prices on parking,etc} early in the month;EAA has to have these extremely high prices to be able to run the rest of the year.I know now,I couldn't afford to come to the convention anymore.Just have to remember the good old days,when things we're more affordable.

Brian247028
07-27-2012, 06:17 PM
Perhaps it's only because I come for one or two days but I don't find their prices that bad. Here is some comparison

Today we went to Washington County fair. It was $10 each to get in and free parking. We were there for an hour and a half. A soda was $3, bottle of water $2 and a smoothie for $5. I checked what it would cost to go to Six Flags in IL. Parking is $20 and tickets for the day are about $40 at the gate. I haven't been to a movie in a long time but people at work state tickets now are in the $10-$13 range as well.

I feel the prices for Airventure are in line or slightly higher. Parking for me was $9, and $27 each ticket for $63 to get in. We were there for 7 hours. The soda was 3.35 for a large and a smoothie was $7. For me that smoothie was the rip off for a smaller glass and more expensive then the fair I was at today.

We walked in EAA with two bottles of our own water in our backpack. I'm not sure of too many places where you can bring your own food/water in. Overall I feel EAA did a great job with Airventure and have no real complaints on their prices.

Canadian8apilot
07-28-2012, 06:57 AM
It might just be me, but it sounds like you folks are pretty cheap! I drove 18hrs to come to Osh, and payed for a week in the UW, bus passes, etc etc ... Like many of you, and it sounds like after all that your bitching over a $3.00 bottle of water?? Really??? I guess if it's that bad there is annother option, Stay Home!

Bastian74
07-28-2012, 11:00 AM
Didn't they have free water, lemonade and popcorn? I saw free water stations with signs saying "please drink water" on them. I re-filled my Gatorade bottle several times with them.

Greg S
07-28-2012, 08:09 PM
It might just be me, but it sounds like you folks are pretty cheap! I drove 18hrs to come to Osh, and payed for a week in the UW, bus passes, etc etc ... Like many of you, and it sounds like after all that your bitching over a $3.00 bottle of water?? Really??? I guess if it's that bad there is annother option, Stay Home!

And staying home is what a lot of people are doing. Maybe there's just a lot more disposable income in Canada than down here.

pathollywood
07-29-2012, 08:52 AM
For those who prefer bottled water, there was cold water at the IAC HQ in their fridge. At $1 for a donation, you get a bottle of water. It's worth it.

hkyplr18
07-29-2012, 10:52 AM
It might just be me, but it sounds like you folks are pretty cheap! I drove 18hrs to come to Osh, and payed for a week in the UW, bus passes, etc etc ... Like many of you, and it sounds like after all that your bitching over a $3.00 bottle of water?? Really??? I guess if it's that bad there is annother option, Stay Home!

Pretty Cheap? I flew 1600 miles roundtrip in my airplane that burns 25gph. I paid inflated fees and prices for everything on the grounds including avgas. I guess I could pay ANOTHER $50 bucks and buy a camelback. I guess I could walk a long way to find some free/cheap water. As a member of EAA should we be expected to do this? Can we get a break on anything? .10c discount on avgas for EAA members. I laughed when I heard that... EAA allowing vendors to inflate prices and serve terrible food etc is a disgrace to US, the members. Why can't mom and pop come serve food at OSH? I can walk off the grounds and find great food and CHEAP water. Why? I have been coming to OSH since 1996 and in the last 4 years I have watched this thing dig it's own grave... It shows with the poor turnout this year. People are going other places or not coming at all. I almost stayed home this year but decided to try again. I stayed for 3 days and finally had enough and left (along with 9 other people in our group) Not sure I will be back until things change. If they ever do... A LOT of people are fed up.

Unwiredone
07-29-2012, 02:41 PM
Pretty Cheap? I flew 1600 miles roundtrip in my airplane that burns 25gph. I paid inflated fees and prices for everything on the grounds including avgas. I guess I could pay ANOTHER $50 bucks and buy a camelback. I guess I could walk a long way to find some free/cheap water. As a member of EAA should we be expected to do this? Can we get a break on anything? .10c discount on avgas for EAA members. I laughed when I heard that... EAA allowing vendors to inflate prices and serve terrible food etc is a disgrace to US, the members. Why can't mom and pop come serve food at OSH? I can walk off the grounds and find great food and CHEAP water. Why? I have been coming to OSH since 1996 and in the last 4 years I have watched this thing dig it's own grave... It shows with the poor turnout this year. People are going other places or not coming at all. I almost stayed home this year but decided to try again. I stayed for 3 days and finally had enough and left (along with 9 other people in our group) Not sure I will be back until things change. If they ever do... A LOT of people are fed up.

I saw on another thread that the EAA has a new email address for feed-back. It is feedback@eaa.org. Hockey, you give a great synopsis of the changes experienced and the costs (arguably sacrifices) you made to come to the show. It would likely be very worthwhile to share this same information on the provided email address.

Thank you for sharing your experience this year.

hkyplr18
07-29-2012, 04:04 PM
I saw on another thread that the EAA has a new email address for feed-back. It is feedback@eaa.org. Hockey, you give a great synopsis of the changes experienced and the costs (arguably sacrifices) you made to come to the show. It would likely be very worthwhile to share this same information on the provided email address.

Thank you for sharing your experience this year.

Thanks UNWIRE. I will submit to that email.

glider90
07-29-2012, 07:23 PM
I also think 3 bucks for water is a bit steep. So I carried my own bottle of water in (legal). I also refilled my water bottles with numerous EAA provided water fountains on the flight line that had spigots for fast filling, and visited the hospitality tent with free water, lemonade, and iced tea...plus cookies (and donated each time). Spent 7 days there with wife and two kids, stayed hydrated and ever bought one 3 dollar water.
I just do not understand the witch hunt. This was my 37th convention, and each one is a cherished memory.
Oh, and the North 40 cafe had awesome dinners that were more than I could eat with an entree, a side, and a salad for under ten bucks...

malexander
07-29-2012, 07:44 PM
I've been going to OSH for the past 10 years. I don't pay the inflated prices, I just find other ways & means to eat, drink, & be merry. Normally, I just pack my own, stick it in a backpack & don't worry about it.

Kyle Boatright
07-29-2012, 07:51 PM
I've been going to OSH for the past 10 years. I don't pay the inflated prices, I just find other ways & means to eat, drink, & be merry. Normally, I just pack my own, stick it in a backpack & don't worry about it.

Exactly. Some of the prices are high. A little planning or a 5 minute walk to a more affordable vendor solves the problem.

Bastian74
07-29-2012, 07:57 PM
I guess I could walk a long way to find some free/cheap water..

I had some issues with Airventure, but finding free water wasn't one of them.

Lindberg
07-30-2012, 09:34 AM
I had some issues with Airventure, but finding free water wasn't one of them.

I don't think the issue here is whether anyone can afford a $3.00 bottle of water. The issue is whether EAA is going too far in squeezing the last drop of cash it's member have. I believe AirVenture has become beast with a voracious appetite. The bigger it gets the more money it needs. Everything that is created requires more and more money whether it is a program or a site. I was on Compass Hill and noted that it is in pretty bad shape. It costs money to maintain it and I saw only one other couple on it when I was there. I am sure the heat had a lot to do with that, but I have noted a lot of things deteriorating and in need of repair. The new Taj Mahal of showers on the North 40 is nice, but why not just another smaller one like the one the west end of the North 40?

The new North 40 Cafe is another thing with inflated prices. EAA is competing with local business like Friar Tucks, The Charcoal Pit, Hardees and more. I am sure EAA would like to close off the gate on that side so those in the North 40 can not get to those places. So much for "goodwill" with the local merchants. I can also tell you that the local people are not very happy with some of the personnel changes that have been made with EAA. If you don't believe me, go ask them yourself.

I have no problem with making profit. I am a conservative capitalist to the core, but AirVenture is a non-profit organization and should not be in competition with any local business and whatever food facilities that there are on the site should be more for convenience. Prohibiting vendors from giving something free, especially water, sounds like something conceived in Washington DC.

AirVenture, like everything else, must evolve or die. That is a law of nature, but I recall when EAA quit making the original blue and gold "Oshkosh" patch with the year of each even because they could not get a patent on the word Oshkosh I knew that "times were a-changin'." to the dismay of many who collected the patch each year. That was the year that I quit buying patches and pins. I am sure they didn't even notice.

Ice cream cones at $2.95. Ridiculous. I only had one a day this year. Too bad I can't smuggle ice cream in like I can a bottle of water.

glider90
07-30-2012, 01:20 PM
I was on Compass Hill and noted that it is in pretty bad shape.
That's surprising to me. My family has a memorial brick for my father up there, and we always make the trip to pay our respects. I was happy to see that they have applied a coating to the letters of each brick to restore the engraving. I was happy to see that. I thought Compass Hill looked great, especially considering the hot dry summer.

Brian247028
07-30-2012, 03:23 PM
Where is Compass Hill? Still new so sorry for the easy questions.

martymayes
07-30-2012, 03:43 PM
Where is Compass Hill? Still new so sorry for the easy questions.

It's right next to the Air Academy lodge. I was there a week before AV and I thought Compass Hill looked "weathered" but I thought that's how it was supposed to look.

Eric Page
07-30-2012, 05:15 PM
My only price complaint would be directed at UWOSH. The prices for meals at the campus chow hall were, I thought, out of line. $14 for a mediocre steam table buffet is pretty steep, but at least at dinner I think almost everyone will eat a full meal.

Breakfast is another story. I'm not a big fan of cooked breakfast; I prefer cereal or toast and yogurt, and maybe a little fruit. They wanted a flat $8 for breakfast, no matter what you eat. I'm not paying $8 for a bowl of Wheaties! Fortunately I found a few granola bars in my bag and made do with that. They should really make breakfast an a la carte meal.

CarlOrton
07-30-2012, 07:19 PM
Breakfast is another story. I'm not a big fan of cooked breakfast; I prefer cereal or toast and yogurt, and maybe a little fruit. They wanted a flat $8 for breakfast, no matter what you eat. I'm not paying $8 for a bowl of Wheaties! Fortunately I found a few granola bars in my bag and made do with that. They should really make breakfast an a la carte meal.
If you went in to the (?) bistro on the ground floor in Gruenhagen (sorry; just can't remember the name), they have ala carte stuff like fruit, starbucks, bagels/cream cheese, donuts, juices, cereal, etc. I've eaten breakfast there for years, for the same reason as you.

Eric Page
07-30-2012, 07:54 PM
Thanks Carl, I didn't know that. I'll keep it in mind for future visits. Sounds like just what I needed.

Mike M
07-31-2012, 06:19 AM
I don't pay the inflated prices, I just find other ways & means to eat, drink, & be merry. Normally, I just pack my own, stick it in a backpack & don't worry about it.

ditto. since inbev bought busch gardens, shut off the free beer samples, and raised the food prices 15% - we take in packaged snacks and empty water bottles to fill at their drinking fountains. consumers are marvelously and quickly adaptive. and when ticket prices go astronomical, we wait for specials or start competitive events. yeah, right, like i'll build a new amusement park.

Hal Bryan
07-31-2012, 06:49 AM
The new North 40 Cafe is another thing with inflated prices. EAA is competing with local business like Friar Tucks, The Charcoal Pit, Hardees and more.

I have to make a quick correction here: Of the three "new" restaurants on the grounds (added this year or within the last 1 or 2), two of them are managed by Fratellos, and one of them by Kodiak Jacks.

Both of these are local businesses.


I am sure EAA would like to close off the gate on that side so those in the North 40 can not get to those places.

This just isn't true.

As a general comment, and I'm speaking to everyone who will listen here, no longer just responding to Lindberg, threads like this one that raise issues and spark discussion and debate are valuable to all of us as EAA members. (Like so many of my coworkers, I will always be a member first and an employee second.) The ability to have these conversations in public and provide a platform so that everyone who wants to can be heard is the reason we have forums in the first place, and one of the key reasons I come to work every day. But I have to remind everybody, with all due respect, that posting misinformation and unsupported accusations shoots us all in the foot, and damages the credibility of the forums as a whole.

Respectfully,

Hal

Treetop_Flyer
07-31-2012, 09:17 AM
I have to make a quick correction here: Of the three "new" restaurants on the grounds (added this year or within the last 1 or 2), two of them are managed by Fratellos, and one of them by Kodiak Jacks.

Both of these are local businesses.

Respectfully,

Hal

I took Stacy out for her birthday (July 26th) to the Vintage Cafe by Fratellos. We had the Bruschetta Chicken, Steak Fries, and the most amazing Oreo Cake I have ever had. Total bill was $62 with tip for the two of us. Not out of line at all with a restaurant and the food was great. So great in fact...we went back the next night to have Rib-Eye's to celebrate our Vintage Award. :) Again, that night it was $73 with tip since we had a few beers. Not out of line at all.

Additionally, the service was fantastic! Our waiter the first night and waitress the second night were just fantastic. Really great people and fun to talk with.

Finally, they had live music going each night. The guy on Thursday did a bunch of Jimmy Buffett stuff and, aside from forgetting the words to Margaritaville, he was really good. The girl on the piano the second night was not only cute, but man could she play and sing. Made the whole experience that much better.

I'll definitely be eating at the Vintage Cafe in 2013. Those complaining about the cost...just means more open tables so I don't have to wait. ;)

Lindberg
08-01-2012, 10:24 AM
We'll, I am sure that they are and I am glad of that, I am not against EAA having facilities on government grounds, but I am merely noting how EAA is now on the prowl to get a "piece of the action" in everything they can and I am concerned about what all this "non-profit" goes too. Seems to be a lot of "programs" that have big appetites.

Regarding Compass Hill and the Memorial Wall, I have family and friends on that wall and I think it is a great place to visit each year when I return to AirVenture for reflection and solace. However, Compass Hill is in neglect, in my "humble" opinion. The pathways are in need of more gravel and a lot of black plastic is visible under the mulch and reading the stone placards on the pathway is difficult as they seem weathered. I know what you are thinking. Make a donation and volunteer to fix it up. Forgetaboutit. Someone has to whine and snivel and it might as well as be me. Maybe it is just me. My comment was more to illustrate the fact that there are so many aspects of the entire complex and each year they grow and multiply exponentially causing money grabbing schemes to help quench the monetary thirst and it has gone so far as to cause the "Great and Knowing OZ of aviation" to prohibit vendors to giving thirsty EAA members from getting water without crawling for miles or paying beer prices for it. OK, so beer is mostly water, right? But fish don't do in beer what they do in water.

I know it is difficult for some to hear complaints about EAA or AirVenture. There are devotees to EAA that have worshiped the grounds of AirVenture as if it were some "mecca". Actually in a way it is. I expect someday to see loyal EAA devotees whipping themselves with with a sjambok. My opinions, though negative, are not acts of blasphemy. After all, I have been a member for some 29 years and have attended 28 consecutive EAA AirVenture Fly-in's. That is no record by any stretch, but it should establish me as a member who has paid his dues, and some. Nobody has put a gun to my head yet and forced me to buy the $2.95 ice cream cones or pay $3.00 for a bottle of water, but making opinionated comments, (and that's all they are) although they may be negative, it does not damage the "credibility of the forums."

Think how boring this forum would be if all you read here were praises of admiration and joy. Read between the lines, Hal, and remember that I'll be back next years with another bag of money to satisfy the voracious appetite that I too am guilty of enabling. Tell them next year that those damn ice cream cones are too big and that limits my beer consumption capability at Beer Venture. Those cute little bartenders there need their "piece of the action" also.

Fly safe and I'll see you next year!

Lindberg
08-01-2012, 10:41 AM
I took Stacy out for her birthday (July 26th) to the Vintage Cafe by Fratellos. We had the Bruschetta Chicken, Steak Fries, and the most amazing Oreo Cake I have ever had. Total bill was $62 with tip for the two of us. Not out of line at all with a restaurant and the food was great. So great in fact...we went back the next night to have Rib-Eye's to celebrate our Vintage Award. :) Again, that night it was $73 with tip since we had a few beers. Not out of line at all.

Additionally, the service was fantastic! Our waiter the first night and waitress the second night were just fantastic. Really great people and fun to talk with.

Finally, they had live music going each night. The guy on Thursday did a bunch of Jimmy Buffett stuff and, aside from forgetting the words to Margaritaville, he was really good. The girl on the piano the second night was not only cute, but man could she play and sing. Made the whole experience that much better.

I'll definitely be eating at the Vintage Cafe in 2013. Those complaining about the cost...just means more open tables so I don't have to wait. ;)

Nobody's complaining about the cost of a Rib Eye steak at Vintage Cafe or the price of a beer there. I have eaten there before and will again.

Rick Rademacher
08-01-2012, 12:06 PM
Sometimes direction from on high can become distorted when placed in action by the common folk. Some discretion should be allowed and used by those who carry out such directives.

While attending the Cub Vintage dinner on Wednesday night, I asked for an extra napkin to carry my dessert to a picnic table so I wouldn’t have to retrieve my used plate. I was told that I couldn’t have another napkin because they only had enough for each paying attendee to receive one. Apparently, everyone is trying to keep close tabs on costs because of a directive from on high. However, it is being interpreted in the extreme.

At one restaurant in downtown Oshkosh along the river, I asked to substitute a baked potato for fries. I was told by the waitress that because this was EAA week, a directive had come down saying that no substitutes would be crafted all week. Because we were early, only about 20 % of the seats were filled. If they were full of people, I could maybe understand.

If the situation warrants a change of a directive, I make the change. Those in charge need to understand that I don’t need to attend Oshkosh or that particular restaurant in future years. I have always tried to implement customer friendly policies if at all possible. Try to let staff members be a little bit flexible/friendly and not put the fear of God into everyone.

Craigpv2d
08-02-2012, 12:18 AM
There's a reason why next year, I'm putting up an air conditioned tent back in Warbirds camping and offering water, snacks etc as a cooling station of sorts. After seeing multiple cases of heat exhaustion and one of heat stroke, screw the overpriced stuff. It will be free but if anyone wants to make a donation to offset the costs, etc it will be welcomed.

I have my 20 X 25 tent air conditioned over at "BeerVenture" camping on Waukau by the Museum! Even though we have bikes or can thumb a ride on a golf cart anytime, we buy our water onsite. We usually ask for and get a big cup of ice to go with it. FWIW, we go through about 40lbs of ice a day in the 4 coolers we have in addition to the small fridge we have in the tent. We get the ice from the SOS bros. We use the melt water for washing stuff and coffee, etc. Next year we are bringing a small pool, lol. Our camping neighbors bring a 12' X 12' pool and have water trucked in from town, lol.