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Kamic
08-02-2011, 08:38 PM
Anyone have any good suggestions on techniques to improve my landings? I'm struggling with my flares...

SKOTT
08-02-2011, 11:08 PM
I think it would help if you could provide more detail regarding your symptoms. For example: Are you flaring too late and driving it into the ground, or flaring too early and dropping it in, or flaring too much and floating for a long way, or flaring too little and hitting your nose first, etc.... Some detail can go a long way to get good help...

dillardrg
08-03-2011, 05:49 AM
Kamic,

I have found that upwards of 80% of landing problems are speed problems. Most of those are arriving too fast with the resulting float.

You did not specify what type aircraft you are having problems with, but as a general rule of thumb use 1.3 X the stall speed as an approach speed (if Vso is 50kts, approach speed will be 65 kts) and use 1.2 X Vso "across the fence"( 60 kts in the example).

As you arrive on short final (15-20' AGL) and slow to 1.2 Vso shift your visual focus out toward the end of the runway and use your peripheral vision to determine when to raise the nose.

From that point, use the seat of your pants to determine how much to raise the nose. If you feel the aircraft level off, quit pulling the yoke and wait. When you feel the aircraft sink, raise the nose a little more. Keep doing this until the aircraft decelerates until it will no longer fly and touches down with the nose wheel well clear of the runway.

Try this and let me know how it works. The more you practice the better your judgement of height will be.

The above proceedure is for a steady wind. If gusty, add 1/2 the gust speed to your approach speed.

Hope this helps.

Kamic
08-03-2011, 09:36 AM
Skott, to be honest: I'm too new to really know what i'm doing wrong... I'm learning to fly a tail wheel similar to a piper cub.

Dillardrg, Excellent response! I only have about 25 hours of flight time in. Once I get back into lessons, I'll be sure to give it a shot!

FlyingRon
08-03-2011, 10:29 AM
One exercise to try (with your instructor) is to descend and then fly the length of the runway at a constant few feet above the runway for it's length. Once you get a feel for the proper attitude and control "in the flare" finding it again on your approach will be easier.

Bill Greenwood
08-03-2011, 10:40 AM
If it is a light plane like a Cub you may be coming in too fast. I use a max of 50 mph in my J3.
And how far you look down the runway matters, shift your focus, try about half way down, try differnt focus points.
Most of all try to level off near the runway, DON'T LET IT TOUCH, until the speed is used up. Don't try to force it or fly it onto the runway.

weiskopf20@gmail.com
08-03-2011, 12:55 PM
Everybody is saying the same thing - when you get somewhat close to the runway, reduce power and let it glide down the runway at a few feet above the runway. Keep saying to yourself "It will stop flying when it's ready, it will stop flying when it is ready....." For a 2 point (wheel) landing - just wait till the plane gets tired of flying. In order to keep the same sight picture, as it slows down, you will have to add some back pressure on the stick. Just add enough to keep the same picture.. If you are doing a 3-point, then a little more back pressure will raise the nose.If you think that you are a little high and slow and are worried that the airplane will drop, just add a sliver of power. If you can hear the engine change rpm, then you probably have added enough. Pretty much anything from 900 to 1100 RPM or so is sufficient. The object is to have a little prop wash blow over the tail to gain a little more control and stop any excessive sink.One thing to remember: In Cubs and their clones, if the second bounce is worse than the first bounce, do a go around. It only gets worse.Hopefully, you are learning on grass. Everything is a lot easier on grass.Pete

SKOTT
08-03-2011, 09:27 PM
Skott, to be honest: I'm too new to really know what i'm doing wrong... I'm learning to fly a tail wheel similar to a piper cub.

Dillardrg, Excellent response! I only have about 25 hours of flight time in. Once I get back into lessons, I'll be sure to give it a shot!

What is it that you think is wrong? You are walking away and the airplane can be used again, aren't you?

David Brown
08-04-2011, 04:16 PM
One exercise to try (with your instructor) is to descend and then fly the length of the runway at a constant few feet above the runway for it's length. Once you get a feel for the proper attitude and control "in the flare" finding it again on your approach will be easier.
That's the way my CFI is teaching me -- seems to be working well!

Ernie
08-04-2011, 08:28 PM
One exercise to try (with your instructor) is to descend and then fly the length of the runway at a constant few feet above the runway for it's length. Once you get a feel for the proper attitude and control "in the flare" finding it again on your approach will be easier.

When doing this exercise, really focus on keeping the airplane STRAIGHT and removing all drift. After you get good at it, try the variation of moving the airplane gently side to side, say 10ft either side of centerline and again keep the airplane straight. down the runway.

The other exercise to discuss with your instructor is to go up to a safe altitude, and practice holding an airspeed while your instructor changes the throttle setting. Try the exercise at various airspeeds, but focus on those from about 1.1 to 1.5 Vs so that you can get a feel for what pitch changes work best to control your airspeed.

Eric Page
08-06-2011, 07:21 PM
As you arrive on short final (15-20' AGL) and slow to 1.2 Vso shift your visual focus out toward the end of the runway and use your peripheral vision to determine when to raise the nose.
This is definitely worth restating. If your vision is fixed on the runway immediately in front of the nose, a modest descent rate can look alarming and lead to too much flare. That, in turn, can cause all sorts of problems (pilot-induced-oscillations, loss of airspeed, stall, hard landing, bounce).

Looking toward the far end of the runway, your perception of descent rate is somewhat muted by peripheral vision, so this tendency is reduced. The goal is to rely on the subtle cues from your periphery, and develop that "seat-of-the-pants" feeling that you've heard so much about.

Keep working on it; it'll come! Don't be afraid to ask for one lesson with another instructor if you feel you've reached a road-block. Sometimes simply hearing something explained, or seeing it demonstrated, another way makes all the difference.

Eric

Kamic
08-13-2011, 08:56 AM
What is it that you think is wrong? You are walking away and the airplane can be used again, aren't you?

no :) trying to sell a home and pay rent :) i'll be back flying again someday

escapepilot
08-14-2011, 09:03 AM
Help us by narrowing down the potential problem areas.
Are you able to hold a fairly stable approach? - steady speed w/o much up, down, left, right correction?
Are you having problems in the flare before touchdown? - too high, too low, dropping in, ballooning up?
Is it after touchdown? - bouncing, darting left or right, tail bouncing?

Grant Smith
08-22-2011, 10:37 AM
"Anyone have any good suggestions on techniques to improve my landings? I'm struggling with my flares... "



1. Fly a good approach. That is good pitch, power and speed control control as well as constant pitch/speed and coordinated turns. A good landing comes from a good approach. Decide on a speed to fly and then find the proper pitch and power to fly it.

2. At 50 feet check your speed and resist the temptation to raise the nose. If necessary even lower the nose slightly.

3. At 10 feet (or less for a cub, 30 feet for a 747) raise the nose slightly to cut the decent rate in half.

4. Hold constant altitude just clear of the runway. How high depends on your skill level.

5. If the aircraft sinks closer to the ground the stick is moveing aft. If the aircraft is climbing the stick is moving forward. Continual aft motion is required to keep the aircraft from sinking. As the speed disipates, the stick will need to move more rapidly to the full aft (nose up) elevator stop to arrest the unavoidable loss of altitude and contact with the runway.

6. Congratulations, you have just completed a full stall touchdown with no cross wind. Cross wind landing and directonal control after touchdown are separate lessons. Wheel and other landing techniqes are also to be covered in additional lessons.

DanChief
10-13-2011, 07:17 AM
I don't use the term "Flare" -- doesn't mean much and has no parallel to anything we do in the air. I call it the "Level off."

It's merely a transition from down to level.

rosiejerryrosie
10-13-2011, 10:48 AM
Dan, You just took the words out of my mouth. I was re-reading this thread and it hit me - "flare" is likely to give the wrong impression - you don't want to "flare" you want to level off and let the airplane land itself....

DanChief
10-13-2011, 11:07 AM
Dan, You just took the words out of my mouth. I was re-reading this thread and it hit me - "flare" is likely to give the wrong impression - you don't want to "flare" you want to level off and let the airplane land itself....

Exactly. I've removed "flare" from my flying lexicon.

:-)

I sent you a PM, Jerry -- I'm not far from you and my 65-LA should double our numbers!

Hiperbiper
10-13-2011, 08:41 PM
Kamic;
Though I'm not a CFI one of my bits of advise to folks having landing problems (real or imagined) is fun and free of charge. Go to your favorite airport where you can see the runway and just watch the planes landing. Watch the good ones and the bad ones...you will see how the landing breaks down into pieces; approach, roundout and touchdown and, if you have your CFI or just another pilot sit there with you you can get a a running commentary about things done right and things done less right.
Sometimes it helps to have a bridge between the stick model used by your ground instructor and actually being in the airplane trying to reason out what you and the airplane are supposed to be doing...

It's fun, it's free and it's educational. Like a 100LL powered simulator!

Hope this helps ya'

Chris
(who watched a guy in a T-50 Bamboo Bomber do wheelies one afternoon and wheelies clicked...)

DanChief
10-14-2011, 04:52 AM
Kamic;
Though I'm not a CFI one of my bits of advise to folks having landing problems (real or imagined) is fun and free of charge. Go to your favorite airport where you can see the runway and just watch the planes landing. Watch the good ones and the bad ones...you will see how the landing breaks down into pieces; approach, roundout and touchdown and, if you have your CFI or just another pilot sit there with you you can get a a running commentary about things done right and things done less right.
Sometimes it helps to have a bridge between the stick model used by your ground instructor and actually being in the airplane trying to reason out what you and the airplane are supposed to be doing...

It's fun, it's free and it's educational. Like a 100LL powered simulator!

Hope this helps ya'

Chris
(who watched a guy in a T-50 Bamboo Bomber do wheelies one afternoon and wheelies clicked...)


This is great advice!!

(I still do this ;-) )