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Old Timer
05-15-2012, 03:26 PM
Just went to book my tickets. Last year my wife's ticket was $75, this year it is $110!!! :mad::mad::mad:

How can you justify a 50% price rise? Do you want to chase the spouses away? Bad idea!!

Oshkosh used to be affordable. Ive been coming since the early 1980's and finally I have been priced out. :(

steveinindy
05-15-2012, 03:36 PM
Sorry to hear that. Such is the economy we live in though thanks largely to the gouging the oil industry has been giving us.

However, I will ask if a $35 increase breaks the bank, how can you afford to fly?

Old Timer
05-15-2012, 03:38 PM
I can't affored to fly, that's why I belong to EAA

Jeff Point
05-15-2012, 05:40 PM
It appears that they have eliminated the discount on the spouse's admission, which has been in place for a long time. Anyone at HQ care to comment on this?

martymayes
05-15-2012, 06:19 PM
Sorry to hear that. Such is the economy we live in though thanks largely to the gouging the oil industry has been giving us.

[insert 'rolls eyes' emoticon here.....]


However, I will ask if a $35 increase breaks the bank, how can you afford to fly?

To you it's $35, to him is a 50% increase. I think his comments are justified and deserve an explanation.

RV8505
05-15-2012, 07:46 PM
I guess you never been to Disneyland. $90.53 per day. http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/tickets-passes/ Personaly I think it has become more expensive because of the spouses. Air conditioning, Splashdown toilets, Bands, Trams, kidventure. I guess it is a necessary evil if you want to spend a week around planes. I think $110.00 for a week of entertainment is a pretty good value.

Jim Clark
05-15-2012, 08:32 PM
I really grow tired of the Disney comparison. There simply is nothing to compare. Disney is a for profit business that has invested hundreds of millions to create an experience that enough people in a country of 300 million are willing to go to once every generation. Airventure is a fundraising event supported by it's members and vendors every year. Everyone pays and it is getting over the top for many of our brethren. Airventure is a business that will stretch the prices until returns diminish. That is not an improper business model but it should be questioned and reviewed when a membership supported organization whose core mission is to expand involvement in private aviation prices itself beyond the reach of some of its members. I appreciate Old Timers post and we all need to consider his concerns.

flyingriki
05-15-2012, 08:49 PM
Sorry to hear that. Such is the economy we live in though thanks largely to the gouging the oil industry has been giving us.

However, I will ask if a $35 increase breaks the bank, how can you afford to fly?

This must be the same ostrich approach that gave us the out of control debt in Washington. Must be nice to be able to just ignore these things......

Mike M
05-15-2012, 08:56 PM
I can't afford to fly, that's why I belong to EAA

concur. wholeheartedly.

Hangar10
05-15-2012, 10:17 PM
... thanks largely to the gouging the oil industry has been giving us.

Like this Marty:rollseyes:... and I concur.

rawheels
05-16-2012, 06:19 AM
Limited to one spouse OR guest as well. I thought that is was a spouse and two guests in the past.

RV8505
05-16-2012, 07:55 AM
So your a member! Most people only pay the $40.00 per year for dues and for that you get a great magazine and a membership. From what they tell me the magazine makes absollutly nothing and they actually produce it at a loss. Then you have a web site with Hal, Zack and Chad here at your disposal. A world class airshow, museum, and convention grounds with a paid staff to tend to our every need. There is also a staff to lobby the goverment for your right to fly. I don't think you have a argument. I think a week of Aviation Shang ra la for $110.00 is a great value!

steveinindy
05-16-2012, 11:28 AM
[insert 'rolls eyes' emoticon here.....]

Roll your eyes if you like, but it's probably more accurate than you want to admit. Airshow aircraft tend to suck a lot of fuel and that fuel hasn't gotten cheaper.


To you it's $35, to him is a 50% increase. I think his comments are justified and deserve an explanation.

I agree it's justified to ask. I just was asking a similar question.

To anyone it's a 50% increase (or if you want to be picky, something like a 46.66666% increase). I wasn't aware he wasn't a pilot and it amuses me that those of us who are and freely spend hundreds to thousands of dollars on their hobby get ticked over pocket change increases in the cost of their vacation.


This must be the same ostrich approach that gave us the out of control debt in Washington. Must be nice to be able to just ignore these things......

I've yet to see a "fiscally conservative" politician except at election time. All of them have their heads crammed somewhere and it isn't in sand.

As for the "ostrich approach" to the EAA and Airventure: if you're so unhappy with the organization and it's events, there's a really simple solution to your frustration. Keep your money, don't be an EAA member and don't attend Oshkosh. If it's a sinking ship, well...you know the analogy.

I'm more than willing (like Chuck pointed out) to pay $110 to get to see planes I don't see anywhere else, support the EAA in it's mission and have every conceivable vendor I could ever need as a designer and builder in one location. Hell, I leave every year with way more "free" stuff than I ever spend on attendance and that includes the gas it takes to get there.

As far as aviation conferences and events goes, this is probably the cheapest one out of the year that I attend (since I don't just go to regular local "zoom zoom" airshows).

Like I said in the other thread, live together as brothers and sisters or perish apart as fools.

flyingriki
05-16-2012, 11:51 AM
If it's a sinking ship, well...

Yeah, drowning is such a better solution.....! I think that about sums up this guy's advice.
The day I get over a thousand dollars worth of free stuff (like that promised by the hopey changey folks) I'll definitely go back to Osh!!
What nonsense.

When was the last time several long threads were devoted to (new) good ideas from EAA.....been awhile huh?

Same as in DC, there are those that see it and those that don't. Look where that got us nationally.

Hal Bryan
05-16-2012, 12:27 PM
Here's a little background behind the decision:
One of the big negative feedback items we hear from members and attendees each year is that “the admission structure is confusing and too complicated” with too many levels. There was and is a continuing need to simplify the admission structure.
These rates better reflect the actual costs per guest on the grounds for a day or week at AirVenture.
Looking at other multi-day membership conventions, aviation events and other similar activities, AirVenture was one of the very few that historically offered a spouse rate.
Sadly, we’ve discovered the spouse rate has opened itself for abuse by some members and other attendees who were looking for a way to beat the system. It’s tough when an option offered with honorable intentions is used by people who aren’t as honorable, but unfortunately we’ve found that to be the case and it hurts everyone.
Obviously, none of us like spending more money on things, so I understand the frustration. Please understand that the revenues from AirVenture go back into the site, for the amenities that attendees are asking for, such as flush toilets, campgrounds road paving to reduce dust, and better signage and food venues. While AirVenture is a unique event in many ways, we do monitor other single-day and multi-day events to make sure we stay in the middle range of cost and look to provide more value wherever possible.

RV8505
05-16-2012, 01:07 PM
I know how you can get in for free if your on a budget! If you volunter with Protect Our Planes ! Hal probably knows how to get a hold of those folks and the details but what you do is patrol around and keep people from jumping on or damaging other members airlanes. You do that for half the day and then you get the other half free to do as you please.

steveinindy
05-16-2012, 01:55 PM
Since someone argued that the Disney comparison is invalid, here's some other non-EAA aviation events by comparison:

European Business Aviation Conference and Exhibition (3 days; Geneva, Switzerland) $260 for non-NBAA/EBAA member (includes a 3 month membership)/$145 for NBAA/EBAA member

AOPA Summit $340 for the full "package" (which includes some off-site activities)

New Jersey Aviation Conference (1 day) $50

Texas Aviation Conference (3 days) $175 or $250 on-site

SAFE Symposium Member $300/$400 at the door Non-member $450/$500 at the door

Montana Aviation Conference $140 per person or $270 for a person and their spouse


Yes, I know a lot of these are not "general aviation" themed by the definition of this forum, but there just aren't that many GA only events. I don't think any of them have half the stuff AirVenture does either....

steveinindy
05-16-2012, 01:57 PM
I know how you can get in for free if your on a budget! If you volunter with Protect Our Planes ! Hal probably knows how to get a hold of those folks and the details but what you do is patrol around and keep people from jumping on or damaging other members airlanes. You do that for half the day and then you get the other half free to do as you please.

Equip me with a Tazer and you have a deal.

Mattmutz2
05-16-2012, 02:12 PM
“the admission structure is confusing and too complicated”

Yes, the admission structure certainly has been confusing and needlessly complicated.

While you're at it, as a member of the community of Oshkosh, the host city for this event, may I ask that while clarifying admissions policy/pricing, might you also consider restructuring the way you report attendance to media outlets? It is very misleading to tell the public that 500,000 people came to town for AirVenture, when in fact the number is far lower, because you aren't counting "warm bodies," but rather individuals multiplied by the number of days. If one person shows up and buys admission for the whole week, reporting that as 7 "people" is highly misleading.

hydroguy2
05-16-2012, 02:49 PM
....... If one person shows up and buys admission for the whole week, reporting that as 7 "people" is highly misleading.

That's true...we paid for the whole week as did our friends, but in reality we were there 10 days. So count each of us as 10 people or 40 total. :)

steveinindy
05-16-2012, 02:54 PM
That's true...we paid for the whole week as did our friends, but in reality we were there 10 days. So count each of us as 10 people or 40 total. :)

Nicely played.

Sawdust
05-16-2012, 04:54 PM
I really grow tired of the Disney comparison. There simply is nothing to compare.

I agree - this is WAYYY better than Disney at a fraction of the cost. I've been to OSH four times now, and my total cost for a 9 days of more opportunities than I can consume is extremely reasonable, especially compared to any other activity of it's type. I get airplanes, nightly entertainment (multiple options), Airshow, museum, personalities, camping, and so much more at a price much lower than about any other type of vacation I can come up with. And the best part is that by doing so, I'm supporting the organization that supports me.

Mattmutz2
05-16-2012, 08:07 PM
That's true...we paid for the whole week as did our friends, but in reality we were there 10 days. So count each of us as 10 people or 40 total. :)

I admire that you have partied ten times more than the average camper. Don't let EAA's SLT know that - they will stop endorsing fun as fast as they stopped endorsing air races.

Hal Bryan
05-17-2012, 07:23 AM
I know how you can get in for free if your on a budget! If you volunter with Protect Our Planes ! Hal probably knows how to get a hold of those folks and the details but what you do is patrol around and keep people from jumping on or damaging other members airlanes. You do that for half the day and then you get the other half free to do as you please.

Anyone interested in learning more about this group should contact our Security Manager, John Faeh: jfaeh@eaa.org


Don't let EAA's SLT know that - they will stop endorsing fun as fast as they stopped endorsing air races.

Matt you know we banned fun the day you stopped working here.

Zack Baughman
05-17-2012, 07:29 AM
Matt you know we banned fun the day you stopped working here.

Snort! :rollseyes: Winner winner chicken dinner! :P

Mattmutz2
05-17-2012, 11:18 AM
Matt you know we banned fun the day you stopped working here.

Given how much you and Chad et al are joking all around the internet (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=86190) and here about what your constituency consider serious issues, seems like the fun goes on! I assume by not commenting on my question about the attendance numbers, you have taken the issue upstairs and SLT is discussing it? ;)

Hal Bryan
05-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Given how much you and Chad et al are joking all around the internet (http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=86190) and here about what your constituency consider serious issues, seems like the fun goes on! I assume by not commenting on my question about the attendance numbers, you have taken the issue upstairs and SLT is discussing it? ;)

The only thing I'm joking about was the idea of us no longer endorsing fun. As for your comment about attendance numbers, yes, I've passed it along.

Tom Downey
05-17-2012, 01:35 PM
All that money, and they still won't allow you to pack.

steveinindy
05-17-2012, 02:11 PM
Matt you know we banned fun the day you stopped working here.

As Zack said, we have a winner! LOL

steveinindy
05-17-2012, 02:21 PM
All that money, and they still won't allow you to pack.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/usafmedic45/not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Just in case you're joking as a result of that ridiculous thread a couple of months back:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y58/usafmedic45/c95b3d2a-17f5-4163-9d81-2dc322874a4d.jpg

(Yes, I know they are Germans. I didn't make the picture, I just thought it was appropriate to get a chuckle out of this discussion)

Hal Bryan
05-17-2012, 03:02 PM
I think I'll ban myself for a day or so, since I helped lead us off the rails. Whatever this thread is about now, it's not about "old timer's" original concern about the change in AirVenture ticket prices. Time to say goodnight to this one, I think...